roll cage strength
 

Hey just wondering if anyone ever tries do add strength to their cage and if so what are you doing to it?

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Re: roll cage strength
 

You are kidding, right? If it concerns you, I'd get rid of it, and if it's that bad, cut it up so no one else will try to use it. JMHO! Bob

Re: roll cage strength
 

Hold on Bob. If he's talking about before he welds it together, he's got a good question. Wall thickness, tube diameter, and design, all good questions.

BUT, if it's after it's all put together, I agree 100% with your answer. Once you build it, you can't fix it.

You can cut and modify alot more than most people think. If the issue is to short a cage for the driver then but another car with taller cage.

Bob

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Re: roll cage strength
 

If you want a video that might help you see where you need more strenght. Or better yet find the info from the test.

Re: roll cage strength
 

We had a racer do that last test in a TQ Midget a couple of weeks ago at Charlestown Speedway. The results came out about the same.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: roll cage strength
 

I personally wouldn't put a whole lot of credence in that video/test, it may have a lot of scientific conclusions, but that is a sold concrete barrier, and a head on hit, that might be considered an extreme case, but the bottom to top is in my opinion, totally bogus, and truthfully, a waste of at least two chassis. I know, it can happen, but your chances are better on the track, than sometimes off the track. JMHO! Bob

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As far as the "whole lot of credence" ask Shane Hmiel about the second crash test scenario. He might have something to say about testing cars at that point of impact to try and learn about the strenght of the chassis in that area.

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THAT needs to remove those giant lego bricks and give some kind of run off area like Bloomington has. Both ends of the the track have available space to allow this. I was there sitting in turn 4 when Shane crashed, and I hope to never see anything like that again.

Re: roll cage strength
 

Shane was the "victim" of that once in a couple hundred wrecks that ends up with the car in that position, I don't know how you could plan for that, or for that matter, build a chassis that the driver could still access, and still function and drive it. I think all builders try to imagine all the scenerios, and work toward that goal, I know my chassis have been in some pretty serious looking accidents, one, somehow qualifying, my driver managed to flip it endo, and got the hood, and landed square on the top of the cage, bagged him danged good, but didn't hurt the chassis, not so good to the hood, and I've seen others do the similar endo, just rolled in, biked, caught the front bumper and slammed it right on the cage, it just sometimes happens, no matter how much you test, and how much strength you can build in, that test was a one in 5 million chance of happening, and I think we all know , or have an idea to make it stronger in that case, but could the driver get in and out? Lots of questions, not many answers! Bob

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Oh I agree you can not plan for everything, however keep inmind that until 12 years ago on the fateful day no one wore a head and neck restraint either. So there is always room for improvment....

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What worries me more than anything, is after turning turtle, there you are on your side, with the open top of the cage waiting for someone out of the pack, driving in the top, but I've been told that it is a no no to try to protect that area, for safety, so they can get you out easier, but WTH, they cut the cage off anyway, someone isn't seeing something here. I've seen some with some protection just over the back of the cockpit, but even then, you're liable to get yelled at for doing it. No win situation. Bob

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Kyle Cummins has some sort of bar on top of his roll cage above the driver. Good idea in my opinion. We need more protection for our drivers....it seems we have had alot of drivers get hurt this year, more than normal .....

Steve Morin

Re: roll cage strength
 

That doesn't really make the cage stronger, the intent is to keep the cows out, I wanted to install one on my car, and was told it would make the car unsafe, and more than necessary difficult to get the driver out if needed, if the car is damaged that bad, and they are concerned about the driver, they cut the cage off anyway, so why is it unsafe. If need be, they can unbolt the seat, and tip it forward to make it easier, or just take the "package" out as an assembly, driver and seat. If the tube that crosses the cage has 90 degree bends on each end, and no more than 1 tube diameter long, I fail to understand how it could spread the cage, and make it collapse. JMHO! Bob

Re: roll cage strength
 

I race a wingless in Australia and we run a head protection bar that is welded or clamped
to top of chassis. the clamp on design is a good idea all you need is a spanner and you can remove
it for winged or in-case the driver needs to be removed. also have seen a bar welded vertical from bottom rail to top of cage at front. remember triangles are strong

The big problem that I see - structurally - is the front upright that connects to the down tubes.
They are just hanging out there with no triangulation and no tie ins or supports to the down tube itself.
Asking that one tube, that is typically already bent back at 5-15 degrees, to take the brunt of ANY impact is Russian roulette at best.
Does it work for now?
Possibly.
Cage less cars worked for decades too....

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Re: roll cage strength
 

I rolled mine on the stock cage it bent it in multiple places and i had to replace the whole cage. Im not sure about making it stronger i know some people weld their own custom cages but that seems like it would be a lot of work....

Re: roll cage strength
 

The halo bars over head on a sprint or midget cage have worried me since I saw the 1st one, and Tony Beaber had a wreck during hotlaps of the BOSS finale at Eldora that kind of proved my point... as the cage is typically built, should the car land cage down or cage into fence, the load from that hit is spread over an area 2 foot wide by 3 foot long, with vertical support at each corner.... When you add that halo bar over the drivers head, and it hits the ground or the fence, all that force is being concentrated on a 2 square inch area on each side of the cage that has no vertical support underneath it...a hit to the halo will buckle the horizontal front to back bars on the cage right where the halo mounts.. Tony builds a great car...his work has nothing to do with the way this buckled....pure physics here... I stole these pics off his FB page to demonstrate my point, and I think credit for 2 of them belongs to J and T Photos..

The first pic shows the beginning of the crash, second pic is part way through the crash and you can see that the hit to the top has compromised the front to rear horizontal bars... 3rd pic is from back in the shop with the body panels removed..

We have no way to know if this hit would have buckled the cage if the halo had not been on it, but it is pretty clear to me that the halo concentrated all that force into a part of the cage with no vertical support..

However...imagine that another car hit the top of the cage and caused similar damage...even with the cage collapsed the way it is the halo bar is still sitting as high or higher above the drivers head than a standard cage sits under normal conditions, which would lead you to think it would still protect you from c0kp1t intrusion better than a car without a halo...the question is how many more hits need to be taken after the structure of the cage gets compromised before there is no protection.

Again, this is an extremely well built car. I currently am driving a Beaberbuilt car and I have 100% confidence in the quality of welding and material selection. There isn't a sprintcar in the world that would have taken this hit and not caved the cage if it had a similar halo bar.

Re: roll cage strength
 

Darnall, that was the whole intent of my post, not as an addition of support strength to the cage, but just to add that bit of protection to the top of the driver, like I sad, "keep the cows out", or at least deflect the blow to the helmet, that is a mighty big opening, and in some cases, things happen real quick, and that at least would provide something other than the helmet to keep another car out of the cockpit, I've had tires run over my shoulders, front wheels stuck over the side bars, and no problem, but a hit on the open cage might not be so pleasant, that was the sole intent of me wanting to add it, if the crash is bad enough, they will cut the cage off anyway, so what makes the difference, sometimes they will, just to practice! Thanks! Bob

My halo was done by Zero Motorsports and he tied my side bars directly under the halo so the cage wouldn't bend like the one pictured above. When I was out there, we discussed driver extractions and both of us agreed that if I'm that bad, cut the car up. They build chassis everyday so why risk trying to keep the cage on it. Safety comes first. The setup is on his Facebook page.

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Considered adding a halo to our car, decided against it based on some of the reasons mentioned here.
Has anyone considered a window net above the drivers head?
Fletcher

Re: roll cage strength
 

That would be about as effective as a screen door on a submarine, IMHO! Bob

I would think the net wouldn't help much as it stretches with contact. It would have to be almost piano string tight to start with. It keep drivers in the car but not as great to keep stuff out.

Re: roll cage strength
 

Did I mention my hollow core egg crate flip top box. Imagine putting a a crush Prof box on top. A honey comb reinforced aluminum or carbon-fiber top 4 to 6 inches deep could sure eat up a lot of crash energy and help keep them pesky front bumpers from scratching up your custom hand painted helmet.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: roll cage strength
 

A net would be the best option to disperse the load and give complete coverage. Easy for extraction (knife) melt/burn away in fire, if you are concerned with its strength a sfi net would be as good as your belts.
Just like any other part of the cage/car if it bends and stretches it is absorbing and transferring energy.
A butt bar in a sprinter won't stop the rear-end but it does slow it down greatly.
(fyi great way to make nets tight is the soak them then install, will be tight when they dry)

Re: roll cage strength
 

Tony

I used that trick with my model airplane wings when I was a kid and I think the Indians used to use it on Cowboys also.

We have spent most of our time with a wing over our head when racing and I always called the wing my $500.00 crush proof box. I knew it was costing me $500.00 when the car flipped or got sideways with the roof facing traffic but it sure went a long way in preventing further damage to the car or driver. Money well spent> A very good investment for entry level racers.

Honest Dad himself:6::6: