New Midget Series from ASCS and Hahn
 

I guess there is plans for the ASCS to have a midget class for the 09 season. I do not know much about it just what I have read on message boards.

"Yes it is going to happen. The cars will run a Chevrolet motor that is being fine tuned as we speak. All the motors can be purchased for under $10,000. If won't be like the Ford focus cars with very little power. These babies will hum. The series won't kick off until 2009. We look forward to having a bunch of the micro guys crossing over and buying midgets. This series will be nationwide not just in this region.
Stay tuned for further info." This came from Ton Hahn who I think is one of Emmett's son on a message board.

Re: New Midget Series from ASCS and Hahn
 

Did you guys just hear a smack or slap sound ??
I'll bet it was some recums slamming shut over at USAC headquarters.

Re: New Midget Series from ASCS and Hahn
 

:O::rolling:applaud:

Re: New Midget Series from ASCS and Hahn
 

Does that include $2500 worth of machine work for their ASCS Spec Head, like the Sprint series requires?
Emmett do me a favor, don't do me anymore favors!

Re: New Midget Series from ASCS and Hahn
 

I know they said national, but given ASCS being headquartered in Oklahoma, I think this will cause more concern for POWERi than USAC.

If it brings more competitive dirt midget racing to some of the other areas that ASCS currently runs, great.

Now, if we could just get World Racing Group to announce the Non Wing World of Outlaws tour..............

Re: New Midget Series from ASCS and Hahn
 

At least someone is stepping out of the box for once.

Don Moore

Re: New Midget Series from ASCS and Hahn
 

If it weren't confusing enough, don't forget about the Tobias Midget thing they run in the east

http://www.speedstr.biz/

Re: New Midget Series from ASCS and Hahn
 

OK Don you got yours on order then....:D

Re: New Midget Series from ASCS and Hahn
 

I'm still clipping coupons here so I can keep up with the $2 million dollar midget teams running for $2500. :headbang

Re: New Midget Series from ASCS and Hahn
 

Word of advise, Don't worry about trying to run with the USAC teams. Race where you can and enjoy yourself. Don't go where you are unhappy and just complain. :headbang:headbang:headbang:headbang:headbang:head bang

Re: New Midget Series from ASCS and Hahn
 

I can always count on you to make my day!

Re: New Midget Series from ASCS and Hahn
 

Wait until you see how much Emmit pays! If it's anything similar to ASCS sprint purses you'll have to place first to cover your travel and tire costs

Re: New Midget Series from ASCS and Hahn
 

I just bought a new pair of scissors at Dollar General Store........

Re: New Midget Series from ASCS and Hahn
 

I think you are missing the point and I know a little bit about this topic. The engine will be a sealed engine ala' Focus, but with substancially more power. It is the intent to make the engine as (or more) reliable than the Focus engine, thus you have almost eliminated any engine maintence expense from your budget (there are Focus engines with 70+ shows still running up front). The engine will still cost you south of $10k and should provide Esslinger ST power.

All I read on boards is about the cost of racing, here is a solution that addresses the barrier to entry for the working class individual. Racers and fans alike should be applauding the move as an alternative for somone who cannot or chooses to not spend truckloads of cash on a motor.

With the budgets of the top midget teams the time is right for a national spec midget program where the motors can be run somewhat competitively with regional groups (NEMA, WMRA, BCRA, etc). If the ASCS is moving forward with their program it will help the other "splinter" groups. I did some calculations, and it is cheaper to competitively run a Focus program (on dirt) for free, than to race a full midget with USAC. It is not about how much you make at the races, it is about how much you lose overall. And if you can reduce the motor cost and control your tire cost you are already ahead.

Next season we will have 3 cars with this new engine. Right now when we run our cars with Focus engines we actually come out ahead when we race with them (we also race to finish and do not tear up our stuff), and we only get paid $150 (average per car). With the new engine we might even slip into the winners circle every now and then it will be a bonus. But our goal is to race and have fun doing so and still be able to afford to send our daughter to Stanford or Harvard.

Individuals that understand this and are working to promote cost control racing should be applauded.

Let's face it, no-one racing midgets with USAC, BADGER, ARDC, BCRA, WMRA, etc. is making money doing so, thus you should focus on reducing/eliminating the your loss. Thus if as a racer you can control your costs, the purse will be a bonus not your focal point.

Re: New Midget Series from ASCS and Hahn
 

Everytime someone says they're going to save me money, I end up poorer than I was before!:headbang

Re: New Midget Series from ASCS and Hahn
 

Offy, you better check your stats as the ASCS Regional sprint purses are better than any of the IN nonwinged tracks, paying $1500 to win and $250 to start PLUS $100 tow if you don't make the show.

Re: New Midget Series from ASCS and Hahn
 

:O: While that might be true, what I am saying is save yourself the money. In other words race in a class where there is a sealed/spec engine (that is proven to last) and with a tire rule that works and you will save money.

The other night we ran our focus cars with the BCRA. Our take home for the night was $450, our costs for racing that night (including tow) were less than $300. The tires still look like brand new after three races (spec FOCUS tire) and all we did when we got home was tighten the bolts and change the oil (it has been a few races since the last change). With the new engine package I bet we would have brought home close to $750 (or more) with the same cost, thus actually contributing to my daughters college fund (which is important so that she becomes smarter than I and never buys a race car to begin with).

Re: New Midget Series from ASCS and Hahn
 

How is changing classes or engine rules going to save me money if I already have my engine?

Re: New Midget Series from ASCS and Hahn
 

How many times do you rebuild per year and what is the cost?

If you are the average guy, the answer is 2-3x at $5k+.

Simple math (conservatively speaking, assuming you can get 60 races out of the new engine prior to rebuild and the rebuild cost is similar to a Focus)....

Year 1 (20 races) = -$10k (new engine) + $10k (rebuilds saved) + $10k (selling your old motor) = $10k savings

Year 2 (20 races) = +10k (rebuild cost saved) = $10k savings (accumlative $20k)

Year 3 (20 races) = +10 (rebuild cost saved) - $4k (long block swap out at seasons end) = $6k savings (accumulative $26k for three years).

Now you have raced 60 times and your cost to race is $26k less, that is equivalent to $433 per night of racing. That is probably more than your average take home from racing right now. And this model is conservative at only 60 nights. If the engine has the same reliability as the Focus your total savings will most likely be even more than what I have illustrated (80 races = $36k or $450 per night savings).

Thus you might have a cash flow issue at the start, but you will end up with less engine costs that you probably see today.

Re: New Midget Series from ASCS and Hahn
 

I expected that kind of comment from you too. All I am saying is enjoy your racing or don't go.

We decided to do that this year (getting away from fighting with ********) and just having fun. Since then we have won one race and ran 3rd in the other.

Dealing with the ******** of racing is a dead end street. We are supporting 2 series right now and are enjoying ourselves more.

I have on question for you Don (and this is a real question not sarcastic) how is buying another motor ($10,000)to run with ASCS and traveling farther to race (at $5.00 a gallon for Deisel) and running for the same purses ($1,500 to win which there is only one winner) going to save you so much money.

Really I am trying to stay constructive Don. If you want to not talk here about it I will try to stop by and introduce myself to you at Midget Week.

Re: New Midget Series from ASCS and Hahn
 

OK HOOSIERS!!!!!!! EMMETT HAHN IS NOT INVOLED IN A NEW MIDGET SEIRES!!!! SOME MORE BS HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!:redflag:

Re: New Midget Series from ASCS and Hahn
 

He will be before long

Re: New Midget Series from ASCS and Hahn
 

I talked to him today!!!!!!!!!!! He said noway!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: New Midget Series from ASCS and Hahn
 

This quote is from Tommy Hahn, Emmits son. You can read more about it here http://microoutlaws.ipbhost.com/inde...showtopic=8679


"Yes it is going to happen. The cars will run a Chevrolet motor that is being fine tuned as we speak. All the motors can be purchased for under $10,000. It won't be like the Ford focus cars with very little power. These babies will hum. The series won't kick off until 2009. We look forward to having a bunch of the micro guys crossing over and buying midgets. This series will be nationwide not just in this region."
Stay tuned for further info.

Re: New Midget Series from ASCS and Hahn
 

Duke unless someone is talking as his son on a message board then I think you are mistaken. I have seen this on the micro-outlaws page as well as someone who has a daughter in oklahoma running micros. I have raced with him before and I trust waht he says about different classes.

Re: New Midget Series from ASCS and Hahn
 

Emmett had a meeting in phoenix last week about it and he said no way will he be involved! No ascs!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: New Midget Series from ASCS and Hahn
 

OK, before this gets too far out of hand...

Yes, there is a project underway to develop an engine. We are VERY EARLY in the process - way too early to even TALK about who, what where, etc. Right now we are in the "proof of concept" phase - this is where we take the time to really find out what the potential for this new product might be. Until we have completed this phase, it is WAY too early to talk about possible implementations.

Emmet Hahn met with me in Phoenix on Friday. He and Fuzzy were very generous with thier time, and Emmet expressed a genuine interest in the concept. However, we both agreed that it is too early to talk about the other end of the business right now. We concluded the meeting on the best of terms and agreed to keep each other informed as things progress. That is as far as it went.

We have formed a new company to develop and produce this product. We are so early in the program that we do not yet have any public information available, but as soon as we have solid results that I can share with you, I promise I'll post that information right here. In the mean time, please guys, try to keep the rumors and speculation to a minimum.

Sincerely,

Keith Iaia

Re: New Midget Series from ASCS and Hahn
 

That's good to hear. It was $1,200, dropping off quickly, with $150 to start. $1,500 and $250 to start is a solid improvement:applaud:. I wonder how quickly it drops off now?

Re: New Midget Series from ASCS and Hahn
 

Hey,

Thanks for letting the cat out of the bag on this!!!....I remember a slogan that was used in World War II...." Loose Lips Sink Ships"

Best of luck on this...but a better idea would be to reduce costs for midgets already produced via the rule book.

Adding my two cents...and two slogans...

Re: New Midget Series from ASCS and Hahn
 

Might see a snowball in July before that happens, Tony. :rolling:rolling

Re: New Midget Series from ASCS and Hahn
 

I am not disputing your cost saving analysis, nor do I have a dog in this fight. BUT, all a spec engine does is shift where people spend their money. Racers will spend whatever they have available to race, and if you equalize the engines, they will just spend it somewhere else to gain an edge....... Just look at what happened with the Focus cars. What's to keep a "have" from buying 10 of these spec engins, dynoing them, keeping the strongest two and selling the others? What's to keep a "have" from putting his car on a 7 post chassis rig?

If you REALLY want to control costs, how about implememnting a salary cap, like all the other major sports have done to keep themselves from spending more than they can afford.

Re: New Midget Series from ASCS and Hahn
 

Dano,

You are correct, but the point is not to keep the haves from spending, it is to give the "have-nots" a chance to compete.

Controlling engine and tire costs provide a mechanism for leveling the playing field. You are correct the haves can buy a bunch of engines and see which have the 5% more, then if they get everything else right they increase their chances of winning. But we are reducing the risk for all competitors. As opposed to now where a guy with a Pontiac shows up and cannot even think of competing against the new Fontana, Mopar, Eslinger and/or Toyota.

Take Scott Nail for instance, he is leading the BCRA points with a 12+ year old Stealth/Pontiac. Scott really stands zero chance of winning a race, but he battles out top 5 finishes every week and runs every race (even ran one in one of my Focus cars). In a spec class, Scotts budget would not only allow him to lead the points but he would be a threat every week to win, no matter how many engines Richie Rich's father was to buy him.

The other thing that it does is encourage multi car teams and increased car count. If you have a very reliable engine package it increases the likely hood that you can field a multi car team, I know this as I have 3 Focus cars right now. If I was running full midgets I would have one. This is not only because of the cost, but also the maintence that needs to be completed week in and week out. Belive it or not even though I work 60+ hours a week I can still keep up with 3 cars if all I have to do is check the belts and fluids on the engine. Not to mention but the self starting sure helps you know that every thing is running fine between events.

In racing I only see two ways to implement a salary cap, spec and claim. And claim does not work because nobody wants to be the a$$ who takes another guys engine, thus in my opinion we are left with spec as the only true way to set a spending limit on the engine.

Rick

Re: New Midget Series from ASCS and Hahn
 

Keith,

I'm going to play devils advocate here, but these are the first questions that come to my mind.

How are you going to overcome the problems you had when building the Focus Engines? There was often a long wait to get motors, especially in the beginning?.

Will this be like the Focus Series where the rebuilds had to be sent back to your shop?

Will the motors be tagged like the Focus Motors?

Maybe you don't have all of the answers to these questions yet, but these are some of the questions that people will ask.

In the USAC Focus deal there seemed to be alot of finger pointing on both sides, but I have to say that from my experience and until Ford really got involved, engine delivery times to the midwest where eratic.

Frankly, If a powerful and REALIABLE spec motor can be delivered for $10,000 and the purses are $175 Start and $1,200 to win, then I would be very flexable to the idea.(Not that I am a person of power, but a skeptic on this subject as a whole.)

I wasn't happy with the way the Focus Series was brought in and implimented, but it did do one thing that Keith was right about all along and I have to say history proves my fears to be somewhat misplaced; it brought people to midget racing. The Kenyon cars should not be overlooked in this area as well and Powri was able to use the micros in that same way as well.

My fears were that the Focus Series would take races from the mdgets and it did to a degree, but in the areas where the Focus,Kenyon and Micros all competed along with the midgets, many of those areas have fairly healthy car counts for the midgets.

I just am always uncomfortable when rigid and one set of specific rules on things such as engines are put in place because then that means there has to be a good and easy way for someone to tech them and someone willing to do so.
Good Luck

Re: New Midget Series from ASCS and Hahn
 

Edge,

Your points are all well taken. As you say, there are many aspects of the focus program that proved to work out well, and there were also some importamt lessons to be learned about things that did not go as well as we would have liked.

Now is not the time for me to go into all of the lessons learned - just know that I hear you loud and clear, and there are some things about this program that I promise will be different. Right now I just need to work on the engine and produce a good product, but once we have some solid information to pass along we will put up a website and publish email and phone numbers for folks to call and write to. One thing that will not change is my pledge to always take the time to talk to you guys who might have an interest, and to take your suggestions to heart.

Thanks,

Keith Iaia

Re: New Midget Series from ASCS and Hahn
 

Now that the cat is out of the bag...

For those of you wishing to contact me about the new Chevy engine project, you can email me at;

keith@revolutionracingengines.com

I know, its kind of a mouthful (or should I say, a keyboard full...)

We are starting to hear from the various sanctioning bodies around the country, and I'd like to say that I am particularly interested in gathering input from every Midget group or potential new group that I can. This is our chance to start with a "clean sheet of paper" so if you have input, please do write to me.

Sincerely,

Keith Iaia
Revolution Racing Engines
"The Revolution Starts NOW"