Milwaukee gone
 

So is anyone really surprised about the latest USAC announcement that Milwaukee has been pulled from
the Silver Crown schedule due to .......... "Scheduling conflict". It never appeared on Milwaukee schedule to begin with. I predict if the series is still around next year it will only be dirt. Bob Sargent please take this series over. You do 40% of the races anyway.

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I wish it would go to just dirt.

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Once again guys , its gonna take full support to make this deal work, not opinions and beating this powri horse. The fact is the heritage might be the only thing thats kept this deal goin, if anyone else runs it it becomes about money and dollars and sense and the losing side of that proposition means certain death, the fact is its usac and sargents job to bring it back above water, lets hope they can and support it as well as possible

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So it's up to USAC and the promoters to keep this series going. I got that.

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Re: Milwaukee gone
 

Wait one second, Sargent isn't responsible for bringing this back at all. He supplies the facilities and promotion, that's it. He puts his financial well being on the line every time he puts on a race.

USAC supplies, the cars, the drivers, and most importantly the rules. Unfortunately their decisions, and their,s alone have decimated this series. Hopefully somehow or some way, the people at USAC have finally figured out that they can't keep trying screwing with this series. No more new car designs, no more short sighted rule changes. Stick with what you have at the present time and build on it.

Re: Milwaukee gone
 

How many years did Indy Car not race at Milwaukee? How much money did the promoters of the Indy Car race lose over the years at Milwaukee? Does anybody know the agreement between the track and USAC? Was the track/USAC agreement dependent on one or the other bringing an event sponsor to the race? Does anyone know the amount of pre-sales for this race? Does anybody know the amonut of cars confirmed for this event?

I will once again get on my silver crown soap box. :deadhorse: If there was more demand for the product, there would be more supply. If every Silver Crown race was sold out, more promoters would be having silver crown races. The simple fact is that with all of the options for entertainment, Silver Crown cars are at the bottom of the list of what people want to see.

Re: Milwaukee gone
 

Originally Posted by HardyBoysRacing:
I wish it would go to just dirt.

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Seems to me that it's all about owners and $$$. Not their fault, but lack of $$ means a shortage of rides, in all divisions. For example, Jerry Coons Jr., Bobby East, Dave Darland are running Little 5 instead of the Night before the 500 at IRP. If they all had a midget ride like normal, they wouldn't be on the Little 5 roster. That isn't a slam, it's merely an observation.

Re: Milwaukee gone
 

seems to me that the usac silver crown div. was one of the more successful outfits in racing until they kissed up tp nascar and s***canned their pavement cars in lieu of those hideous whatevers/ i suspect certain people at nascar are still laughing at the very thought of that one:10:

Re: Milwaukee gone
 

Originally Posted by racephoto1:
Wait one second, Sargent isn't responsible for bringing this back at all. He supplies the facilities and promotion, that's it. He puts his financial well being on the line every time he puts on a race.

USAC supplies, the cars, the drivers, and most importantly the rules. Unfortunately their decisions, and their,s alone have decimated this series. Hopefully somehow or some way, the people at USAC have finally figured out that they can't keep trying screwing with this series. No more new car designs, no more short sighted rule changes. Stick with what you have at the present time and build on it.

For a guy who never pays to get in races, you sure have all the answers. If it is so easy why don't you do it? I love these cars, but car owners and fans aren't that interested in them. Plain and simple. If they were the PRA would have drawn cars. They drew less than USAC. Answer this Chris, if you have the guts to, when was the last dirt mile built in America? That answer says alot.

Re: Milwaukee gone
 

Well Funkster, do want horse track mile or State fairgrounds? Dirt or pavement? I'll see you at the Hoosier Hundred, Springfield , and DuQuoin.

One big problem with the Slivercrown cars is unless you know what they are they look very similar to a sprint car and your fan base is getting older same thing with the owners more are retiring than u have new ones getting in!!!! Why would a promoter book a higher cost division and get 15 cars when he can book sprint cars for a lot less and get 30 cars more cars means more fans means more money at the gate. So the writing is on the wall if they stay on the same path they will continue the path to ex series

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Re: Milwaukee gone
 

Originally Posted by Jonr:
How many years did Indy Car not race at Milwaukee? How much money did the promoters of the Indy Car race lose over the years at Milwaukee? Does anybody know the agreement between the track and USAC? Was the track/USAC agreement dependent on one or the other bringing an event sponsor to the race? Does anyone know the amount of pre-sales for this race? Does anybody know the amonut of cars confirmed for this event?

I will once again get on my silver crown soap box. :deadhorse: If there was more demand for the product, there would be more supply. If every Silver Crown race was sold out, more promoters would be having silver crown races. The simple fact is that with all of the options for entertainment, Silver Crown cars are at the bottom of the list of what people want to see.

I grew up in Milwaukee during the 1960s and part of the success racing enjoyed was due to the PROMOTERS. The Marchese Brother PROMOTED their races all year long. Every bar and barbershop had a poster with the dates of the SEVEN to NINE USAC events they hosted at the mile. Every sports show, car show, or church men's club smoker had some "presence" of the racing events.
What has killed racing at The Mile, IMHO, has been the outrageous "license fees" NASCAR, CART, & the IRL took off the top. Even adjusted for inflation the entire "take" for the Marcheses over their tenure was probably less than the fee NASCAR TOOK for a single Busch Series race. I understand that they have overhead and officials to pay but a million dollars per event is out of line. Plus, they don't promote. They "organize" and hope a crowd shows up.

Re: Milwaukee gone
 

The track is being rented by a stock car group for a races on July 8th and the 9th. On their website they had the 7th as a day for the crews to unload the cars and equipment. Maybe USAC couldn't come to a agreement to use the track on the 7th.

This is too bad. Was looking forward to catching this race and then shooting down to Wilmot for IRA sprint cars that night. One of the RARE 1 day, 2 track opportunities in Wisconsin gone

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Re: Milwaukee gone
 

outside of the average dirt track fan, what would attract you to any SC race? Lets take a look at advertising, Mostly radio and Newspaper. Lets look at these 2 advertising sources.

#1 Newspaper- Every Community has a different paper. So you have to advertise in multiple papers. Every Community newspaper is struggling, younger generation does not buy newspapers. They get there news for free on the net or on TV.

#2 Radio- what station do you advertise on? There are more stations today than ever before. How are you going to make your advertising sound different from the other forms of racing that are advertising?

Now the biggest problem with any advertising, What do you advertise? Normally one would say the drivers. Take the list of drivers for this year, walk out into the center of down town Indy, and see how many people recognize any of the drivers on that list. So names are not going to work. Maybe advertise the large car counts, well those are gone. Maybe you advertise this unique for of racing, like others have said the average Joe could not tell you the difference between a Crown car and a Sprint car. So what do you advertise?

I do hate to see the series go, because the racing has gotten better, but I'm afraid this ship has sailed. Only hope I can see is start paying the NASCAR guys to come race so you have something to advertise.

Re: Milwaukee gone
 

Aren't Springfield, DuQuoin and Indy horsetrack miles? In fact, Knoxville was originally built as a horsetrack half mile. And, wasn't Milwaukee originally a horsetrack?

The simple fact is that a promoter must be able to make money with the event he/she organizes. If they don't, the event -- no matter what division it schedules -- ceases to exist, or another sanctioning body is invited. USAC is the ONLY sanctioning body for these cars.

For a promoter to make money, he/she needs cars entered and butts in the grandstands. I believe a major part of what is wrong with racing today is it is no longer exciting to the young people, those folks who promoters need to fill the grandstands in the next generation And, part of that problem is race tracks running too many divisions. But, that's another issue.

The problem with Silver Crown is where is the sizzle? We can't keep living in the past.

Re: Milwaukee gone
 

So far in reading this thread, I know many reasons not to attend a Silver Crown race.

I have not read a single reason of why I should. With exposure like that, no wonder the series is struggling.

A few years ago, DuQuoin drew 8,000 to a Silver Crown race. So to say that fans aren't interested is simply not true.

What is true is that decisions leading to lower car counts have negatively affected attendance.

What I have always wondered is why there isn't more promotion of the dirt mile silver crown races at the local Saturday night tracks?

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Re: Milwaukee gone
 

Ever since they screwed up the camping world deal , things have went downhill!

Re: Milwaukee gone
 

There is not more promotion at Saturday night races because most Saturday night promoters don't want to tell their customers to spend money somewhere else. And, how many Silver Crown races now run on a Saturday night?

And, how many years ago was it that there were 8,000 people attending, and what has been the attendance recently?

I never said the racing was not exciting -- for us older people.

Compare the attendance at monster truck shows which has promotion and sizzle to its program that captures the attention of young people. Every level of racing is having a problem of a graying of the fan base.

Again, where is the sizzle to excite these young people who are the future of our sport?

Re: Milwaukee gone
 

Again, where is the sizzle to excite these young people who are the future of our sport?[/QUOTE]

Create a party type atmosphere at the tracks for the younger people to enjoy.People always say the kids are the ones to concentrate on, but I disagree. They have no money to spend of their own. Sure they can bug a parent to go but lets be realistic money is tight.The people I would try and get to my track would be over 21 and working class.Hell if it were up to me I would make every race have a snake pit,beerhill, ghetto,or etc and let the natives take over. Over the years me and my other racing friends have brought many new people to the tracks, the only races they ever want to go back to are the party events. I could make someones first race IRP Silver crown and there would be a chance they might not come back. The party is what keeps a lot of us younger people coming back or going in the first place. I have seen many terrible tracks and races but I am a fan and will always come back.Hard to explain to a newbie that sometimes the racing just flat sucks and sometimes its great! One more thing that might help with the younger crowd is to allow booing in the stands.Give the fans a chance to feel like there are good guys and bad guys just like at a basketball game.Most of the fans that go anymore are as you all stated old timers who sit on their hands the whole show.Everyone enjoy your season I will be the loud one booing your favorite driver.

Re: Milwaukee gone
 

Originally Posted by racephoto1:
Well Funkster, do want horse track mile or State fairgrounds? Dirt or pavement? I'll see you at the Hoosier Hundred, Springfield , and DuQuoin.

A dirt mile used for auto racing.

Originally Posted by rpedersen20:
Again, where is the sizzle to excite these young people who are the future of our sport?

Create a party type atmosphere at the tracks for the younger people to enjoy.People always say the kids are the ones to concentrate on, but I disagree. They have no money to spend of their own. Sure they can bug a parent to go but lets be realistic money is tight.The people I would try and get to my track would be over 21 and working class.Hell if it were up to me I would make every race have a snake pit,beerhill, ghetto,or etc and let the natives take over. Over the years me and my other racing friends have brought many new people to the tracks, the only races they ever want to go back to are the party events. I could make someones first race IRP Silver crown and there would be a chance they might not come back. The party is what keeps a lot of us younger people coming back or going in the first place. I have seen many terrible tracks and races but I am a fan and will always come back.Hard to explain to a newbie that sometimes the racing just flat sucks and sometimes its great! One more thing that might help with the younger crowd is to allow booing in the stands.Give the fans a chance to feel like there are good guys and bad guys just like at a basketball game.Most of the fans that go anymore are as you all stated old timers who sit on their hands the whole show.Everyone enjoy your season I will be the loud one booing your favorite driver.[/QUOTE]
You have hit the nail square on the head build some excitement throw a hell of a party and a race broke out!!!!! But the one major bump is u gotta get more than 15 cars to show up call every owner from the past 15 years and put cash in there hand to show up 2000.00 to show would be a good place to start then pay another 2000.00 to run dead last and up from there. And do it again and again then you might have something started

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Re: Milwaukee gone
 

Well guess what folks ? all half mile silver crown races are only 50 LAPS!!!!!!!! thanks USAC:7:

Re: Milwaukee gone
 

The question was asked "why go to a SC race?" IMO hot laps at DQ are the best, and........Hot laps at DQ.......and hot laps at DQ......oh, and to see how Miller is going to jack things up!!:....and hot laps at DQ!

Re: Milwaukee gone
 

Originally Posted by BrentTFunk:
For a guy who never pays to get in races, you sure have all the answers. If it is so easy why don't you do it? I love these cars, but car owners and fans aren't that interested in them. Plain and simple. If they were the PRA would have drawn cars. They drew less than USAC. Answer this Chris, if you have the guts to, when was the last dirt mile built in America? That answer says alot.

PRA ? Went belly up? right ? Hey doesn't the two guys that ran PRA now run USAC? Mr. Mister Obvious never made the connection!!

Re: Milwaukee gone
 

the dirt miles have slowly gone down hill since they were removed from the championship trail.lets face it the good ol' days are long gone,and all the partying you can do ain't gonna bring them back.

Re: Milwaukee gone
 

In one of Sargent's first years of promoting Springfield he added STREET STOCKS to support the still prestigious Silver Crown race which drew over 50 cars and a mostly full grandstand! And in the process had to move up the starting time for practice to a ridiculously early hour. I believe the year was 1992. He was a stock car lover who apparently cared and/or knew nothing about the history and prestige of that type of racing. His track prep is the most boringly predictable the miles have ever seen and translates to boring racing almost every time, excluding the first year of lights at DQ. Sargent is not the answer, just another part of the problem. Couple that with 2 very poor rule decisions by USAC, an aging fan base and more and more years removed from when these races were part of the old Championship trail. Most people today don't even call them Championship Dirt cars....which is what they actually are or were. How do you fix all this? You can't. Just enjoy what's left while you can, if you can.

Re: Milwaukee gone
 

Funkster, least I can tell is 1982 when they cut Nazareth down from 11/8 to 1 mile.The only one before that for strictly auto racing appears to be Langhorne.
As for atmosphere, before they had a couple rainouts and didn't run, the Hoosier Hundred was growing in the late 90's and early 2000's.

They'd have a snakepit in turn 1, be like a big party. Even Roman Comer came out from Phoenix. Actually was beginning to take on the atmosphere of an "event" as some people call it.

As for crowds, the first night show at DuQuoin packed the place.

Unfortunately , as much as I love the champ dirt cars, my boss is right. The attention span and interests of the younger generation are no longer what they once were.I can't say it can't be done, but there is a lot of work ahead.
The stabilization of the rules package this year is a step in the right direction.

One thing they can do , which would be like other motor sports events, is open the pits up before on track activities start. Let the fans up close to the cars and drivers. The young guys would like the gearhead approach, and also get to know the faces behind the names. The dirt series in this country don't get nearly the coverage the stock car deals get, so make the drivers and cars more accessible . It's a lot more enjoyable to see them in person , instead of on TV.

Re: Milwaukee gone
 

Originally Posted by usac99:
PRA ? Went belly up? right ? Hey doesn't the two guys that ran PRA now run USAC? Mr. Mister Obvious never made the connection!!

Why did they go belly up? They had little support from teams or fans.

Re: Milwaukee gone
 

Chris my point is most of tracks have been around longer than cars have. There was never a time when they were that profitable. In fact most of the raqces I like are held at government owned facilities, or they would not happen. I do like some of your ideas, but I don't know how you get people there. When these cars were king, there were only 3 TV channels, no internet, no videos to rent, and no forum for everyone to get on and complain about the product. Think about it every thread about the champ cars turns in to a bunch of people complaining about the promoters and the sanctioning body. That sends the message, that it isn't the place to be.

Re: Milwaukee gone
 

Brent, you forgot the biggest draw they had, Indy car drivers. I'll stay with this topic, but I could easily wander off. The guys that ran the 500 also HAD to run the miles if they were to win the title. Foyt, the Unsers, Andretti, etc.It was a very exclusive deal to run these cars back then, and you knew every driver in every car.

Also , look at the view count on this thread. There's interest, but how people looking at this thread will actually go to a Champ dirt car race?

Re: Milwaukee gone
 

People really need to read Dick Wallen's book on the 1950's Champ car races, not every dirt race [with the 500 drivers] was a success. They tried one year to have a June race at Springfield one year, the crowd was weak and they lost money. Not everything in the old days was great.

Re: Milwaukee gone
 

I remember Gary Bettenhausen saying once that the good ol' days were not necessarily that good.
I think that's true. It's just our selective memory chooses to remember the good, and not the bad.

I think Chris is right about one thing. The sizzle for champ dirt cars was the opportunity to see Indy 500 drivers races on local tracks, especially for people who could not, or did not want to, get to Indy. You could see Foyt and Andretti up close and have a real chance to get their autographs.

Now, for champ dirt cars (Oh God. I forgot. SILVER CROWN.) to survive, we must excite the fans in other ways. Maybe we should look at what is done to excite people with monster trucks, mud pulls, and ESPN's extreme sports.

And for all of those armchair promoters out there, there is no easy answer. The simple fact is that race promotion is very hard work. Work for a promoter for a while and you'll get your eyes opened.

But, for me at least, all of the negativity expressed here, and elsewhere, is a huge factor in turning people away. Why would I want to spend my money on fuel, food and tickets when everything I read tells me how horrible things are? Why would I want to go where idiots are running things?

When I first attended champ dirt car races, we talked about how great that duel was between Andretti, Unser and Howerton, not how stupid USAC was.

Maybe to find out what is wrong with Silver Crown racing a person should look in the mirror, and stop living in the past. Let's live for the future.

Re: Milwaukee gone
 

Originally Posted by BrentTFunk:
Why did they go belly up? They had little support from teams or fans.

I believe they went belly-up because USAC ended the new SC pavement car experiment & returned to the old ones.

I doubt fans would flock to SC races to see the current crop of Indy Car drivers race on dirt, it's not like the average fan knows who any of them are anyway.

steiny
:32:

Re: Milwaukee gone
 

I think you can lay the "blame" at a lot of things, starting with the economy, and working backwards, a gallon of gas, or a gallon of milk, a pound of hamburger, or a treat for the kids, or school pencils. Not to mention, the demographics, considering the age of those of us who even know what a SC/Champ car is, or a midget, or a sprint car, like it or not, NASCAR has taken a bunch of those people away from open wheel racing, plus the generation of young folks, don't really know much about racing, some may even be so retarded to think it has something to do with skin color, on TV this week, the death of Margaret Thatcher has been in the headlines, on one news show I watched, the reporter was on the ground at a college, asking students about her, and only one young lady was able to find that she had heard of her, and who she was, history has folded over itself, it isn't taught hardly anymore, and with all the old folks not being able to relate to the current generation, history for the most part will never surface anymore, technology is too advanced for anything as simple as learning how we got where we are in the US, last week at the truck race, you coulda had an open hunting day in the stands, very few people there, no one would have been bothered. Print advertising, and media advertising has come and gone, unless it's something on sale at a local dept store, I think we gotta face it, there just aren't that many people, with the extra money to field a race car, or even take in an occasional race, I hate to see it come, cause I been doing it for over 60, of my 75 years, in mostly the nut behind the wheel position. That's my 2 cents worth, as much as I hate to say it. At the current rate, how long will it be, before we see open trailers at the Nascar Cup races, I think there have already been one or two at Nationwide and Arca shows! Bob

Re: Milwaukee gone
 

To me, they will always be Champ Dirt Cars.

My dad is 72 and owns two crown cars and still calls them champ cars. Believe it or not there is quite a few young people who still love these cars. I'm 23 and the best feeling in the world is to watch a crown car/champ car full bore through turn 3 at DuQuoin :)

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Re: Milwaukee gone
 

Nothing more beautiful then a Champ Dirt Car on a dirt mile.

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6184/6...09b13940_b.jpg
IMG_7878 copy by uncloose1, on Flickr

Re: Milwaukee gone
 

POWRI would breathe life into this series. Look what they have done with midget racing. They have their National series, one in the NE and one in Austrailia. Obviously they know what to do to make something work correctly when it comes to racing.

POWRI hasn't "tweaked" much on their midget series. USAC can't say that about the Silver Crown series. They tweak things more then a "tweaker" does. Dump the old cars for those NASCAR "supported" cars then back to the old cars, then split 100 lap events then back to solid 100 lap events, then to ethanol, then to ethanol/methanol split then drop a race then add another then drop it again. Stop screwing around and get a clear, concise, well thought out plan to get this series moving forward. Make a rule book and stick to it year after year with minor changes made at USAC discretion and major changes at the consesus of all involved parties (USAC, promoters, team owners) so that everyone has a chance to say their idea or comment on the topic.