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I think he is a lucky man to be stiil with us. Now are they saying nascar found something wrong with the frame?

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I agree he is fortunate to not have any injuries, but for Nascar to place the blame on the chassis, if they indeed did, is a sham, to me, it did just what it was supposed to do, it saved him from serious injury, think what would have happened if it hadn't separated, talk about a tank slapper! Not to mention the sudden stop. I've now been hearing that the area he hit, is a gate to the infield, to allow large equipment to cross the track, and is actually 45 feet wide, like I said, that's what I've heard, but I'm sure something will be reported in due time. I also witnessed the one in 1969? I think it was, that was covered on live TV, and it was all there, as gruesome as it was, they kept the cameras rolling, I can still see it, altho I'd rather not! Bob

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No matter how disgruntled they might get, always remind your fellow fans not to stand at the fence.

http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/II...70670072a3.jpg

And also a great reminder to never turn your back to the track when they are racing.

I'm thinking the frame had to have been clipped at some point for it to come apart like that. Kyle is very lucky and I'm glad he was able to walk away from it.

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Frame problem or not, If that Gate hadn't been there and it was continuous Chain link fence, The car would never have penetrated the fence and been sheared by the pole.

look at Mike Stevensvilles pic above, The car hit right under that bracing for the gate head on knocking the gates out.

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If you click on the youtube link on my other post above here. You can see the car go into the gate. Just happy it was the bottom-front part of the car that went into it-not top of the car

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If you save that picture and blow it up you can also see it a lot better, Looks to me that the only continous cable is six feet up and the other two start and end on the post on each side. The post are also further apart at the gate location.

Just observations, Im just glad Kyle is ok and I pray all make a full recovery. Last I heard there was still 7 hospitalized.

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The problem with the frame is called a post. They don't come with race cars, but they will kill one. Seen them do it more then once.We all have.

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I can not believe i saw in the video people standing up against the fence and others running up to it. maybe you can't stop loose parts from flying higher up in the seats but allowing people to get right up next to the fence at any track seems like a big risk. As most on her have also, I have seem too many cars go through or over fences to want to be that close.
maybe nascar doesn't get them in the air like open wheel does but they have proven they can do it and standing on the fence at start/finish of last lap of daytona doesn't sound like the safest place to be.

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Had to really had that subframe ground thin for it to snap loose at firewall like that. Like a pretzal. And Nascar is supposed to really check these cars out. Shows they nreally know what they know. Only Body Panels?

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The frame did exactly what it should have done, absorbed the impact and sheared off, that's the reason he hopped out of that car as stated above, you must have weak points when you build a cage strong enough not to shear apart it's self to protect the driver.

Same with sprint cars shearing at the motor plate.

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Please go back and read post #4, the chassis did exactly what it was intended to do. Nuff said! Bob

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Keep in mind that this fence that did an excellent job of protecting race fans in an extreme situation is one of the best in motorsports.

Take a moment and examine some of the "catch fences" at your local race tracks. There's some pretty scary fences out there that really need attention. With some, about all they do is keep fans from leaning over to take a picture as cars exit the turns. It some instances, it would be safer to have no chain link fence at all.

And yes, some of the top sanctioning bodies in the country go to those tracks.

Safety fences can only do so much, no matter how well they are constructed. In 1987, a spectator was killed at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway when a tire that came off of Tony Bettenhausen Jr.,'s car was struck by Roberto Guerrero and sailed above the catch fence -- not through it. The spectator was standing on the top row of the grandstand when it struck him in the head. Had he been sitting down, it would have cleared him and bounced harmlessly outside the track.

I shudder to think how many people would have been seriously injured or killed if the Tony Renna testing crash in which the car went through the fence at Indianapolis had happened on race day. What if the race car that crashed through the fence at Mt. Vernon, Ill., a few years ago had done so in the main grandstands rather than one for the pits? How many more people would have died?

Yes. The Daytona crash was at a high speed oval. But, it is incumbent upon everyone in racing to examine the safety equipment available for fans and drivers. It doesn't take 200 mph to kill.

Perhaps the best that can happen as a result of this tragedy is a self-examination of those measures.

Jim Morrison
Editor
Hawkeye Racing News

Exactly

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All great points Jim but its not excuse not to learn from this crash as we've learned from about every other crash, Or at least the ones that cause injury or death.

Me and Pops talked about this last night, Racing is a dangerous sport, On and off the track. we talked about sitting close vs far, And ultimately came down to you could fall down the steps at home.

Certainly, pay attention, learn what can be learned. Yet Sh*T happens will always be in effect.

Back in the 80s NASCAR had a class with frames that did not give in a crash. The modifieds of that era were killing drivers pretty regularly. So to my eye, that frame did its job, the only thing it did wrong was run into a cleaver.

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Maybe just maybe if they would learn that mirrors aren't supposed to be in racecars a wreck wouldn't happen from blocking. Nothing from Earnhardt's death was learned from that I'm guessing.

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You would think that after the Nationwide race crash, the track would clear out the bottom aisle of fans and not let them walk or stand there. But watching the Cup race, there were fans scattered throughout the aisle down by the fence throughout the race, walking past, I am assuming. Granted, it looked more sparse at the apex of the tri-oval, but fans were there all race long.

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Only 2 points from me. How many times, at our local bullrings, do the announcers have to "shout out" for parents to get their children away from the fences?
& secondly, let Vicki & i thank the management of Kokomo Speedway for not using cheap fencing along their front stretch. A few years ago during the Bob Darland Classic, with the final lap duel between DD & Robert Ballou & RB ends up high up into the fence, we thanked our lucky stars that fence was of top quality to stop a fire-breathing sprint car from ending up in our laps. Vicki said it's the only time she ever remembers screaming. We all know racing & we all know the old saying "when it's your time to go". We've all seen the simplest wrecks kill drivers and some of the most horrific ones the drivers jump right out. Let's just all pray that when we see the tumble on the track, that both drivers and fans walk away uninjured, we all know the risks, bob.

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Thanks, Jim for your observations, now let me add one or two. At those speeds, that fence acts like a big cheese grater, and to be able to see thru it, that is about how it has to be designed, anything that hits it, gets sheared off, you could make the pieces smaller, but then maybe it would be impossible to see anything thru it, I have a feeling it was "where" it hit, that made it this severe, and, in the long run, just how safe can being there be, people fall, like the man says, it happens, and usually someone is out of place, how many times have I been told to get back from the backstretch wall at Twin Cities, several, did I know better, yes, but it do happen, the only "safe" place, at a race track, is probably on the track, in a race car with all the latest safety equipment in it, I know that's where the most fun is! Bob

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Bob,

I remember that well! Earlene and I had started to leave, and we had just entered the walkway between the stands when Robert hit the fence. We thought he was coming through, but, thankfully the fence proved to be up to the task. I believe Levi wound up in the middle of the track by the flagstand.

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Stevensville Mike

I agree with your observation about the pedestrians, but just how much can you control. I noticed in the clips that one fellow was trying to take a picture with his cellphone rather than rushing back from the fence.

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And, the situation is not limited to spectators. Sometimes racers and crew members, and, yes, photographers, need to take a second look from where they are watching the races.

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i remember when don mactavish's front end was ripped from his car and the car spun to a stop on the track and was hit head on by a racer who locked up the brakes instead of using the steering wheel. mactavish was one of my favorite race car drivers of that era, would have been a great one

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Good point, bigmo. At the big NASCAR tracks, the "ushers" down front are usually all volunteers. They can "direct" fans away from the fence area at best. They are not law enforcement officials wherein they are going to intimidate a fan from standing there.

Other than reconfiguration of the seating, the only other thing i could think of would be a second catch fence about 3-4-feet behind the first, but now you are seriously impeding the sight lines of the fans. You may as well put up a tall wall if you are going to do that.

I-96 Speedway, for the main grandstand, is configured safer than most. A fan has to come under the stands, walk up onto a walkway, and then back up to the seats. The walkway is a fair distance from the fence. To get to the fence from there you'd have to shimmy down to it (there is no stairway to get there).

Of course one can go up to the fence in the turns and get to the main straight fence by walking down it from the turns, but the main grandstand configuration is a safer design.

Other tracks, like Kokomo and Mt. Pleasant Speedway off the top of my head, have a good deal of space in between the track and stands. At Kokomo one can walk up to it, but at Mt. Pleasant, you cannot even get to the track. There is a fence and then about 20 yards, or so, to the track.

Reconfiguration is the only 100% way out of this. We'll see what happens down the pipe at some of these NASCAR tracks in the future.

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You can move the stands back, but then I think about Lyle Kurtenbach at Indy, tire hit him in the top row of the stands. I"ve seen a tire go into an infield and kill a child.No matter what you do , there is an inherent risk in motor racing. You can only do so much, and hope what you've done will prevent injuries and death.

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Right. Tires went into the stands at MIS and Charlotte (or was it Atlanta) for open wheel races after that in the late 90s. There were fatalities. Since then, the big tracks have raised the height of the fences and curved them over the track further. MIS even put up a big fence like that along the INSIDE of the track all the way around, which, by the way, ruined watching from the infield from what it used to be. So there we are - back to impeding sight lines.

Like you stated, you can only do so much. Yes, you can make it SAFER, but you cannot make it perfect.

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Must be you were not at 96 the night the non wing sprint when over the fence and into the stands. Also 96's fence does not have anything to stop-knock down a tire. I have been on the track racing and saw a tire hit the top of the fence-did not not go over but was as close as you could get with out going over.

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No, I missed that one. And I am glad. I never knew that happened or heard anyone talk about a car going into the stands at the track in all the times I've been there. Thanks for that bit of info/history.

Fencing aside, the point I was trying to make is that certain grandstands impede access directly to the fence. Without a walkway in front, overall it would be safer. I-96 Speedway's main grandstand is configured in this manner.

Like we said earlier: You can only do so much. You cannot make it perfect.