Jim McGee on the state of Indy Car Racing
 

He doesn't mince words either.:6:

http://www.gordonkirby.com/categorie..._is_no371.html

Re: Jim McGee on the state of Indy Car Racing
 

AMEN BROTHER!!! After one reads the article, it's RIGHT ON with what should be done. ONLY THING, when the companies throw money at the series, then you become a prostitute ONLY TO KEEP THE SERIES GOING. If the series can pick out the good and STILL keep it's head above water to be able to CONTINUE, then it COULD POSSIBLE WORK, along with other adjustments. I'd like to meet with Mr. McGee and bring a few other constituients and have a round table discussion. It definately could be work out. THAT'S IF ANYONE WOULD LISTEN.

Re: Jim McGee on the state of Indy Car Racing
 

I think Gordon is right on. To bad you have to compare to Nascar, but they do have a hugh market. And we need to get OFF the road courses, or at least most of them! :22:

Re: Jim McGee on the state of Indy Car Racing
 

I like what McGee said the only thing I would ad is put Du Quoin , Springfield , Indy Fairgrounds & the Big Cars Back on the Freaking Indy Car Schedule for Cryin Out Loud !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!

Re: Jim McGee on the state of Indy Car Racing
 

Times change, but this seems pretty simple to me. Jim McGee has seen all the eras so he has seen it at its greatest. It seems simple to me. Build it, race it. If you build one of the fastest 33, you’re in the show. If you are one of the fastest 33 to wheel a car, you’re in the show.

Manufacturer backing works great in sports cars, doesn’t in IndyCar. All it does is keep people out….look at last year. Several drivers had $ to run, but couldn’t get an engine. Also, if you don’t have the budget to afford a lease (or their car), you can’t run. What if you could build an engine on your budget and compete (maybe not for a win, but be competitive)? Too bad, not how it works. Any race team in any series should be able to come to Indy and race if they are one of the fastest 33. Somewhere that concept was lost. The only thing that is somewhat saving things is the product on track is pretty good….just not enough people care.

The argument if you open it up is that all the big teams will out spend and win all the races. The big teams win about 90% of the races now so that really wouldn’t matter. It would give teams a chance to compete….or at least make the show…which for many back in the day was like a win.

Re: Jim McGee on the state of Indy Car Racing
 

More AMERICAN DRIVERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I want to watch KL,BC,DG,DD at Indy. Is it any coincidece that the rise of Nascar coincided when our sprint and midget guys started going South. Yes , I want to see inovation at Indy. I've heard 1 old timer say they ought to go to midget engines at Indy? This would slow them down , but talk about innovation and creativity back in the game, that would do it.

Re: Jim McGee on the state of Indy Car Racing
 

Originally Posted by midgetmaniac:
More AMERICAN DRIVERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I want to watch KL,BC,DG,DD at Indy. Is it any coincidece that the rise of Nascar coincided when our sprint and midget guys started going South. Yes , I want to see inovation at Indy. I've heard 1 old timer say they ought to go to midget engines at Indy? This would slow them down , but talk about innovation and creativity back in the game, that would do it.

I agree, more American drivers could possibly bring the fans back. They need to stay off the road courses, F1 dominates the road courses and makes Indy Car unwatchable on them IMO.

Re: Jim McGee on the state of Indy Car Racing
 

The idea that you are gonna see "big cars" in Indy car is absurd as someone telling me that the "used once a year dirt miles" are anything but a boring follow the leader train race.

It's 2013, think about it... it sounds as ridiculous as people who think Nascar should be running cars that came off a production line.

Re: Jim McGee on the state of Indy Car Racing
 

Originally Posted by Gregg:
He doesn't mince words either.:6:

http://www.gordonkirby.com/categorie..._is_no371.html

This McGee guy has been reading too much IOW. He makes sense. Indy Racing has turned into a super expensive GoKart rental track, just for rich people to race at. They don't ask if you are good or not just how much money is behind you.

Great minds think alike I guess.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Jim McGee on the state of Indy Car Racing
 

Originally Posted by apexonephoto:
The idea that you are gonna see "big cars" in Indy car is absurd as someone telling me that the "used once a year dirt miles" are anything but a boring follow the leader train race.

It's 2013, think about it... it sounds as ridiculous as people who think Nascar should be running cars that came off a production line.

Did you ever watch the real champ cars race with the Offys and four cammer Fords and Foyt and Andretti and Jones. Those guys also raced at the brickyard I think. I was a lot younger then but boring would not be one of the adjectives I would use to describe a real Champ Car race.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Jim McGee on the state of Indy Car Racing
 

Originally Posted by apexonephoto:
The idea that you are gonna see "big cars" in Indy car is absurd as someone telling me that the "used once a year dirt miles" are anything but a boring follow the leader train race.

It's 2013, think about it... it sounds as ridiculous as people who think Nascar should be running cars that came off a production line.

James,

Your post is pretty much right on with the exception of the "boring follow the leader train race" comment. If you would have seen Tobias come from the 13th row to win at DuQuoin or other notable drives on the miles, you wouldn't think that way.

Yes, there are some :29: every now and then but these races are a different kind of race. You have to race the competition as well as the track. You have to drive a good handling car when full of fuel and manhandle that animal when the fuel load burns off. All the while taking care of that right rear tire. That is why we like the 100 lap race concept rather than the 50-50 split.

IndyCar will continue down the road it is on. Sorry to say that USAC has tried to kill the Silver Crown division and I am not too sure that they still won't. Yet all of the while, NASCAR continues to be the "leader" of racing in the USA.:7::15:

For me, bring on the short tracks. Every weekend we see outstanding racing that you know can't be duplicated. Then the next race comes along and it is termed an instant classic. All of this that a bunch of so called race fans never see. Bring on the short tracks.:22:

I like some of what he says. Stock block engines? If you can make it work, do it. Open the rule books? Yes please. Spec series? No thanks. However, road/street courses do not need to go. My guess a lot of people who b*tch about them have never seen one in person. It takes all the balls and skill to drive Mid-Ohio as it does to flat foot it around Chciagoland. I feel that multiple disciplines and innovation is what can differentiate IndyCar. That being said, there no doubt needs to be more ovals. Not all mile and a half cookie cutters, racetracks. Richmond, Dover, Milwaukee, Indy, New Hampshire, to name a few. And now I'm really going to put my head on the chopping block. There does need to be more American drivers in the series, and if they come from dirt tracks, great. But "furriners" as some describe them, are important for the series too. TK, Power, Dario, and Dixon are all fantastic drivers. Again, differentiation. Maybe a USA vs the world. Lets put our best against their best.
Finally, here's a proposal for an IndyCar rules package. 700-1100 hp and half the downforce. 250 mph isn't that important to me. A driver having to drive his car is.

Posted via Mobile Device

Re: Jim McGee on the state of Indy Car Racing
 

Originally Posted by ruts n guts:
I like some of what he says. Stock block engines? If you can make it work, do it. Open the rule books? Yes please. Spec series? No thanks. However, road/street courses do not need to go. My guess a lot of people who b*tch about them have never seen one in person. It takes all the balls and skill to drive Mid-Ohio as it does to flat foot it around Chciagoland. I feel that multiple disciplines and innovation is what can differentiate IndyCar. That being said, there no doubt needs to be more ovals. Not all mile and a half cookie cutters, racetracks. Richmond, Dover, Milwaukee, Indy, New Hampshire, to name a few. And now I'm really going to put my head on the chopping block. There does need to be more American drivers in the series, and if they come from dirt tracks, great. But "furriners" as some describe them, are important for the series too. TK, Power, Dario, and Dixon are all fantastic drivers. Again, differentiation. Maybe a USA vs the world. Lets put our best against their best.
Finally, here's a proposal for an IndyCar rules package. 700-1100 hp and half the downforce. 250 mph isn't that important to me. A driver having to drive his car is.

Posted via Mobile Device

That sounds great lets get a couple of races on the one mile dirt tracks to the mix for them furriner guys to race on in them big old front motor cars for points. That really would be fun.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Jim McGee on the state of Indy Car Racing
 

Originally Posted by apexonephoto:
The idea that you are gonna see "big cars" in Indy car is absurd as someone telling me that the "used once a year dirt miles" are anything but a boring follow the leader train race.

It's 2013, think about it... it sounds as ridiculous as people who think Nascar should be running cars that came off a production line.

Champ Dirt Cars on the IndyCar circuit a absurd idea , Maybe, Bobby Unser has been a long time advocate of Dirt Cars to be back on the IndyCar Sked, In my conversations with Uncle Bobby, Randy Bernard was @ least considering it before he was given the boot

You might ask Will Power if he would like to Race a Big Car on the Mile Dirt ... you might be surprised @ the answer ?

IIRC Alex Lloyd went to Kruzer's Skool & had a new appreciation for Dirt Track Racing

I could imagine Rodger , Chipper , Mickey A would have a temper tantrum about gettin dirt on the soles of their shoes on the front straight @ Springfield , If I was race director I would throw the Green on Darland, Clauson, Power , Carpenter @ see how fast they could do some stepin & fetchin gettin outta da way LOLLLL !!!!!!

I would tell the whine & cheese crowd knock off the complaints & if you do not want to race the Dirt Tracks .... do not show up !

Re: Jim McGee on the state of Indy Car Racing
 

Originally Posted by apexonephoto:
The idea that you are gonna see "big cars" in Indy car is absurd as someone telling me that the "used once a year dirt miles" are anything but a boring follow the leader train race.

It's 2013, think about it... it sounds as ridiculous as people who think Nascar should be running cars that came off a production line.

I'd ALMOST buy into this, except for NASCRAP. What do they know that Indycar doesn't ? They're going BACK to the roots of racing. It may be the truck series, but they're running at Eldora this year. Seems like dirt is for more then farming in their eyes.

Re: Jim McGee on the state of Indy Car Racing
 

Originally Posted by racephoto1:
I'd ALMOST buy into this, except for NASCRAP. What do they know that Indycar doesn't ?

NASCAR has a benevolent dictator running the show. He will be running the show today, next week and five years from now. In short they have stable leadership. Randy was always one bad decision away from being ousted as 'head' of IndyCar. He was in the leadership position but we all know who was running the show.

Originally Posted by racephoto1:
They're going BACK to the roots of racing. It may be the truck series, but they're running at Eldora this year. Seems like dirt is for more then farming in their eyes.

And there you have it. It's a culture clash. With Indycar you have a chef cooking up a fancy dish to eat. With us it's "who's gonna run up to KFC and get a bucket of chicken?" We love dirt and most of us love pavement. and as someone else put it, Michael A don't like to get his shoes dirty.:3:

It is what it is. Outside of AJ, Ed, Davey and Sarah you won't change the mindset of most of the other car owners. IndyCar will continue to go down the primrose path with this mindset, just like CART, ChampCar, SCCA F5000 and CanAm (3-times) did. Like Mudpacker said, the weekly shows will still be here and USAC, warts and all, will still be here. That's enough for me. If Tony K, Tomas and a few other want to join in on the fun I'd be happy to see them. Of course we would make suttle changes like calling them Tomas "The Slammer" Schecter and Tony "The Kushion King" Kanaan.;)

Re: Jim McGee on the state of Indy Car Racing
 

Re: Jim McGee on the state of Indy Car Racing
 

1 thing missing from the old formula theory, people are not hands on anymore like they were 15-20- or 30 years ago. Heck I would like to know of the people that have posted on this thread,how many of you actually change your own oil or air filter? Everyone used to change there own oil. Quick pole here at work, out of 20 people working around me, only 2 of us change our own oil. Only half of the people could tell me how often you are supposed to change your oil. The other half either said they change it by the sticker or when there car tells them its time to change. To go back to the old formula, you would have to have major media backing just to educate the fans on what they are seeing. By the way I also asked the same 20 people this question:

Do you ever go to the race track? 60% no, if I want to watch racing, I can turn on the TV for free. The other 40% attended either the 500 or 400 last year. Only 4 people attended a short track race.

Re: Jim McGee on the state of Indy Car Racing
 

Originally Posted by 767:
1 thing missing from the old formula theory, people are not hands on anymore like they were 15-20- or 30 years ago. Heck I would like to know of the people that have posted on this thread,how many of you actually change your own oil or air filter? Everyone used to change there own oil. Quick pole here at work, out of 20 people working around me, only 2 of us change our own oil. Only half of the people could tell me how often you are supposed to change your oil. The other half either said they change it by the sticker or when there car tells them its time to change. To go back to the old formula, you would have to have major media backing just to educate the fans on what they are seeing. By the way I also asked the same 20 people this question:

Do you ever go to the race track? 60% no, if I want to watch racing, I can turn on the TV for free. The other 40% attended either the 500 or 400 last year. Only 4 people attended a short track race.

This might be the most telling post of all. NASCAR has a huge following, but I'd bet a large chunk of their fanbase doesn't care about the motorsport aspect at all. They don't care about the technology on their cars, the physics behind racing, or even what's going on the track. It doesn't translate to the mainstream anymore(unfortunately). But, as much as I despise NASCAR, I have to admit they did a good job of making their product relevant to the masses. They play the WWE factor of the sport. They play up driver rivalries, stuff like that. They've in essence turned racing into reality TV.

Re: Jim McGee on the state of Indy Car Racing
 

Originally Posted by 767:
1 thing missing from the old formula theory, people are not hands on anymore like they were 15-20- or 30 years ago. Heck I would like to know of the people that have posted on this thread,how many of you actually change your own oil or air filter? Everyone used to change there own oil. Quick pole here at work, out of 20 people working around me, only 2 of us change our own oil. Only half of the people could tell me how often you are supposed to change your oil. The other half either said they change it by the sticker or when there car tells them its time to change. To go back to the old formula, you would have to have major media backing just to educate the fans on what they are seeing. By the way I also asked the same 20 people this question:

Do you ever go to the race track? 60% no, if I want to watch racing, I can turn on the TV for free. The other 40% attended either the 500 or 400 last year. Only 4 people attended a short track race.

I make ALL mechanical repairs on all 4 of our family vehicles. I also go to the races, and work on race cars too. As times change though, it has become more specialized. You either learn to progress , or stand around and have someone else do it.

As for the Big Leagues as they say. BORING. Take a friend to a short track , when they want to take you to a MAJOR race. A trade if you want to call it that. You'd be surprised how many people will come back. But you have to get them there first.

Re: Jim McGee on the state of Indy Car Racing
 

It's pretty simple guys. IndyCars need to go back to publishing a set of rules and allowing ANYBODY to build a car that meets those rules. PERIOD. No contracts. No deals. Issue a set of specifications and allow innovation rebuild your fan base.

However, there is one issue that has not been touched upon, and it is significant. Qualifications used to create as much excitement and interest as the race. Punching out a really fast time that challenged the track record generated tons on publicity and built pole day crowds. How long has it been since there was a new track record to excite the masses? Many people who knew nothing of racing went to the track simply to watch a car go that fast. That came through innovation, but people started getting scared when speeds neared 240 mph so we slowed the cars down.

Indianapolis used to be an incredible publicity machine. It used to be a "must-see" event on people's bucket list of life. For thousands of college kids, it used to be part of the rites of spring -- they went for a party and a race broke out. Unfortunately, that party has been over since 9-11 and the speedway stopped allowing massive quantities of alcohol to be brought in.

God, I could go on and on, but the real question facing IndyCar racing is what do you do after you've slain the golden goose? A run-what-you-brung format will help, but that is not the only thing wrong. A $100 million from the state government for lights, new seating and other improvements will not provide the spark. The people running IndyCar have to realize that what made that circuit, and Indianapolis, was it's appeal to the common man who worked in factories, farms and your local stores. Having those people in the grandstands made it a good marketplace for the nation's corporations and brought their financial investments through sponsorships and other means.

The key to the Golden Goose is the common people, but they are pretty hard to see from the corporate board rooms.

Re: Jim McGee on the state of Indy Car Racing
 

Originally Posted by bigmojo5:
It's pretty simple guys. IndyCars need to go back to publishing a set of rules and allowing ANYBODY to build a car that meets those rules. PERIOD. No contracts. No deals. Issue a set of specifications and allow innovation rebuild your fan base.

However, there is one issue that has not been touched upon, and it is significant. Qualifications used to create as much excitement and interest as the race. Punching out a really fast time that challenged the track record generated tons on publicity and built pole day crowds. How long has it been since there was a new track record to excite the masses? Many people who knew nothing of racing went to the track simply to watch a car go that fast. That came through innovation, but people started getting scared when speeds neared 240 mph so we slowed the cars down.

Indianapolis used to be an incredible publicity machine. It used to be a "must-see" event on people's bucket list of life. For thousands of college kids, it used to be part of the rites of spring -- they went for a party and a race broke out. Unfortunately, that party has been over since 9-11 and the speedway stopped allowing massive quantities of alcohol to be brought in.

God, I could go on and on, but the real question facing IndyCar racing is what do you do after you've slain the golden goose? A run-what-you-brung format will help, but that is not the only thing wrong. A $100 million from the state government for lights, new seating and other improvements will not provide the spark. The people running IndyCar have to realize that what made that circuit, and Indianapolis, was it's appeal to the common man who worked in factories, farms and your local stores. Having those people in the grandstands made it a good marketplace for the nation's corporations and brought their financial investments through sponsorships and other means.

The key to the Golden Goose is the common people, but they are pretty hard to see from the corporate board rooms.

It all went down hill the year they closed up the "snake pit."

How about the party on 16th street the night before,or the midgets racing across the street. It took a lot to entertain us back then and we found a way to do it all on our own.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Jim McGee on the state of Indy Car Racing
 

Jim, and NASCAR is just the opposite, that's why their at least 3 times bigger then Indycar. They appreciate the common man.

Re: Jim McGee on the state of Indy Car Racing
 

My first time at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway in 1966 on pole day I saw: Rear Engined cars, front engined cars, five USAC sprint car champions and two future champs, two USAC midget champions, two formula 1 champions and one future champ, one future NASCAR Cup champion, one IMCA Sprint car champion, one racer of dragsters, two sports car racers, a motorcycle racer, offys blown and unblown, fords, a Novi, a turbine in a roadster, a twin engined Porsche, a Chevy, AJ and Mario, Eagles, Lotuses, Lolas, Watsons, Gerharts, an Eisert, a Shrike, a Cecil, BRPs, Volstedts, a Brawner Hawk, a Brabham-Moore, a Halibrand, Coyotes and Huffakers, a track record broken twice in one day (George Snider and Mario), Four former Indy 500 winners, racers that would race on a Saturday night in a bull ring, open wheelers that would race stock cars and sports cars and most of the racers that would race more than 30 races a year.


This is just off the top of my head so I may have forgotten a few. I've never seen anything so diverse in my life and never quite would again. This is what made Indy car racing and the Indy 500 for me. If I could just see 10% of what I saw in 1966 I would probably be coming back.

Re: Jim McGee on the state of Indy Car Racing
 

Originally Posted by Gregg:
My first time at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway in 1966 on pole day I saw: Rear Engined cars, front engined cars, five USAC sprint car champions and two future champs, two USAC midget champions, two formula 1 champions and one future champ, one future NASCAR Cup champion, one IMCA Sprint car champion, one racer of dragsters, two sports car racers, a motorcycle racer, offys blown and unblown, fords, a Novi, a turbine in a roadster, a twin engined Porsche, a Chevy, AJ and Mario, Eagles, Lotuses, Lolas, Watsons, Gerharts, an Eisert, a Shrike, a Cecil, BRPs, Volstedts, a Brawner Hawk, a Brabham-Moore, a Halibrand, Coyotes and Huffakers, a track record broken twice in one day (George Snider and Mario), Four former Indy 500 winners, racers that would race on a Saturday night in a bull ring, open wheelers that would race stock cars and sports cars and most of the racers that would race more than 30 races a year.


This is just off the top of my head so I may have forgotten a few. I've never seen anything so diverse in my life and never quite would again. This is what made Indy car racing and the Indy 500 for me. If I could just see 10% of what I saw in 1966 I would probably be coming back.

You witnessed the end of the Golden Era of INDY. We did not see it coming.:13:

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Jim McGee on the state of Indy Car Racing
 

Originally Posted by racephoto1:
Jim, and NASCAR is just the opposite, that's why their at least 3 times bigger then Indycar. They appreciate the common man.

There's a fine line between appreciating the common man, and dumbing down your product. I'm definitely not the most sophisticated person you will ever meet. But every time I watch a NASCAR telecast, with DW's "Boogity, Boogity Boogity!" line, it sure seems like NASCAR thinks its target audience is 5th grade boys with ADD.

Re: Jim McGee on the state of Indy Car Racing
 

Originally Posted by illiNOISE:
But every time I watch a NASCAR telecast, with DW's "Boogity, Boogity Boogity!" line, it sure seems like NASCAR thinks its target audience is 5th grade boys with ADD.

Have you ever been to Talladega to watch a NASCAR race? Ole DW's crowd enjoys all the "reckin, rubbin and resling" that they can get. And that is before they get out of their tent to go to the race.:3::10::32::34: