meeting
 

Attention all Mini Sprint drivers and car owners:
The WRP and A.M.S.A. meeting will be held at the Waynesfield Race Park on Sunday Feb 10th, at 2:00 p.m.
This will be a information session so Please attend. It will be held in the concession building.

Any body got info from the meeting

Posted via Mobile Device

Weights with driver: gas 1000cc = 900lbs, alcohol 1000cc = 925lbs, 600cc = 875lbs

Any Hoosier tire all four corners

Must use stock throttle body ( no Engler injection)

Transponders will be used. Westhold rechargeable units.

24 teams were in attendance.

Rules to be posted soon on website.

Posted via Mobile Device

Thanks for the info we couldn't make it up for the meeying

Posted via Mobile Device

Oh and we are going with WRP's 1000cc engine size rule also. Sure hope ya come out and support us, good things happening this season.

Posted via Mobile Device

so no American tires at all?

Posted via Mobile Device

Re: meeting
 

Uprite minisprints are becoming just another spec class. How sad and yes i own a few. Almost every car we or my friends own are now ruled out somewhere just so sad. Buying new engines to meet the rules dont make this racing anymore affordable. We need more rules like southern States winter rules and montpelier's rules jmo Micro racing has different classes with different rules and plenty of cars. uprites/Div 2 midgets should try that. let cars run just add weight. The midgets have bigger engines but minisprints of all engine sizes can race seemingly fair with them because they add weight.

Re: meeting
 

Completely agree. I just bought a 1200, primarily to run non-wing at Montpelier, but it would be nice if there were other options on the off weekends. I had hoped that the AMSA having a 1200cc limit and occasional non-wing shows was one of those options, but apparently that's out the window now.
Hopefully Papa Outlaw will announce what tracks are going to be participating in the Div II Indiana swing soon, and when the races will be scheduled. I'm eager to support any organization that promotes the "less is more" rules philosophy.

Re: meeting
 

wow. No engler injection I only know one person that has that system looks like picking on one person to me. that system is no faster than any other mechanical injection. 25 lbs different for gas to alky crazy that's great if you have 100lb driver. glad I sold my mini stuff had to get out while stuff still worth something.
to many track favorites with different rules for them.

People don't approve of the engler and I don't know why? we have one and fixing to purchase possibly another , price is really the same of the top notch alky systems and I believe much safer, it's a heck of a lot easier to work on , does not leave you scratching your head when something goes wrong. Oh btw fuel pump 65 races and check it for pressure and flow . That's rite , just a check

Posted via Mobile Device

Btw I forsee the stock throttle bodied engler mechanical fuel injection in the future . This guy is that damn good ;) Let the post and the games begin!!!!!! happy racing !!!!!! ;)

Posted via Mobile Device

I'm one of the 1200 guys that was looking forward to some of the non wing events again this year and maybe trying some winged shows. After being told several times last season my equipment is out-dated and not competitive I didn't think it would be outlawed this year. Just an old oil cooled, carbureted, pump gassed Suzuki 1127 having fun. Best of luck to everyone up there and hope it turns out well for you all. Thanks

Posted via Mobile Device

Re: meeting
 

Hell I'm working on an electronic injected Engler Throttle body. That would be a super deal. Right now I think they are using Engler as a generic term for mechanical injection??

Scott We still like you even if you are a trouble maker non conformist racer always looking for that special edge.:9::9:

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Thanks DAD ;) love me or hate me. I use a boat oar for a spoon I stir things up with !!!!!!! Just a southern Monroe county hay seed with a lot of good ideas ;)

Posted via Mobile Device

Re: meeting
 

Why outlaw an engine or injectors if you think its outdated and not competitive? race us and beat us lol its racing and everyone has a different idea on how to go fast. boy the sprint and midget heros of old would laugh at us now. Look at all the different engines and sizes they played with. Nascar is spec racing terrible stuff.

Re: meeting
 

Bill May correct me if I'm wrong. The provision for experimental engines was written mostly for that nasty old BMW motor and perhaps larger cc quick change cars. could that also include a few old 1200cc cars that are still running. When they fade into the great land of expired motors the 1000cc motors would be a much cheaper motor to replace than that hard to find big motor, and we might find a few more cars to make a race with.

I apologize for helping to spread rumors about certain motors, but we have to expect these motors to keep on getting more powerful every year that is how they sell bikes that people buy and wreck thus furnishing us with inexpensive power plants for our race cars. Even at $5000.00 for a stock motor that is still a whole lot cheaper than an E Mod motor.

Motor prices went up mostly because of the tsunami and small number of units importede to the USA in the last few years. Might also have something to do with the number of people that can afford to buy a $12000.00 bike in these economic time that we seem to be stuck with.

We all need to do a little soul searching to keep our sport alive and growing for the next few years.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: meeting
 

Dad i agree but racing to just be placed last is no fun. I want to try and beat everyone. I dont even get to race until sometime in May because of a major reconstruction surgery from cancer March 21st but i will as soon as they let me. i have one of these old engines (1074cc) in my car when they wear out then ya thats different. As far as mechanical injection we have two and no matter what engine size we use in the future we are staying with those. i would love to race at some of the cool tracks mmsa runs but not for last. If i finish there (and i may) then it will be because i got beat by better cars or drivers. My son and son in law as well as a close friend want to as well. yes they have 1000 engines that came with thier cars but they say they wont if i cant. We want to do this as a family. There is no money in minisprint racing and its not going to make anyone famous but it is fun and i have met alot of good people. thats why i went and bought one.

Re: meeting
 

More cars wrecked in hot laps than main events:6: If you don't go and run off and leave us little motors I would not mind racing you. Just remember throttle modulation, make it look like a race!

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: meeting
 

I have an Engler mechanical fuel injection system too. Maybe some day everybody will allow us too race with them instead of outlawing them. These cars used to be called OUTLAW MINI SPRINTS now they ought to be called SPEC SPRINTS kinda leaves a bad taste in your mouth!!!

Re: meeting
 

Coming from someone who races in a division where nothing has even been done about engine costs....you all should be thankful. Soon you'll be spending 10-15k on motors to run up front, otherwise.

When were the Waynesfield cars called "outlaw" or 1200? They were the "1000cc mini sprints" as long as I can remember. Before that they were "600cc mini sprints". Why don't some of you guys wanting to spend that kind of money sack up and buy a real sprint car? Those guys like to spend money too.

It seems the majority of the bitchers run cars elsewhere, but want to whine that a "track they were thinking about running once in a while" changed the rule. Kudos to waynesfield for stepping up and trying to get things under control.

Aside from that, the rule said it was OK to convert the injection to alcohol. This implies - stock injection only. A cheaters mind says an engler, or other aftermarket injection is OK.

PS, lame for AMSA and Waynesfield to ignore the thin-walled cars. Like they're any safer winged vs. non-winged.

Quit your crying, and race.

Re: meeting
 

Sorry, but I paid $3500 for a car with a 1200 Suzuki so I could run an affordable class, and at 60 years old that's all the "sacking up" I got. I really could care less about what Waynefield is or isn't doing, I'm more concerned with the AMSA end of it. If they were still going to allow the OLDER 1200's to run, and were still going to promote some non-wing shows elsewhwere as they had done in the past, I wouldn't even be posting here. Newer 1200 engines are another matter entirely; I don't have "that kind of money" either. Not crying, just commenting. I'd love to race my 1200, non wing, somewhere other than Montpelier "once in awhile" this year, but if the AMSA is no longer offering that, then so be it. Good luck to all you guys who choose to run at Waynesfield and have fun. Patrick and PJohnson, I'll see you guys at Montpelier. I'll be in the Prevost motor coach with the inflatable hot tub out front. Hah!

Are you related to some other jones on here?? Been in mini's since 01. Sure you have been around longer. Now my point is as long as a car meets the weight requirements what's the deal. You say quit crying but you are sitting there crying about thin walled cars. And 15,000 motors .What gives?? You re-post and input would be appreciated . Scott Bradley

Posted via Mobile Device

Re: meeting
 

Debate, argue, whine, *****.....think about it...reason it out....

There are ways so EVERYBODY can race TOGETHER....

1 you take that 16' squared motor killer off the top
2 you add weight to the larger engines
3 if that isn't enough then they have to run a harder RR and/or LR
4 Stock Bore and Stroke NO AFERMARKET internals (a quote from Sheldon Kinser Jr. you don't need them with the sissy flap gone) Motorcycle power or up to 2.4 Durotec/Ecotec engines with STOCK INTERNALS

This will bring EVERYBODY closer together on the track and you do not become out $$$.... racing will be closer... engine bill will be cheaper...tire bill will be cut in half....and the FANS will leave alot happier and want to come back for more.


Then you can come race with the Division II Midgets (MIDGETS DON'T HAVE WINGS!!)

Re: meeting
 

I think not allowing the 1200's is more for the newer motors. You guys with the older oiled cooled motors might want to give them a call and see if they would let you race. Some areas have allowed them to still run with stock 1000's. I believe they went to these rules to keep cost down. If things were to keep going with people building these big motors the cost is going to go thru the roof. You can deny it all you want but ive already seen it happen in a few series were a few people start to build motors and then every one is trying to build a big motor. The next thing you know your blowing motors every few weeks. Personally i could care less what motor I run against I still plan on being fast with the weight rules. The engler thing i dont really blame them there expensive and theres more hp gains with them. Ive ran mechanical before and it can be a hassle as well. With the way stock injection is and the ease of use theres no reason to buy soemthing different especially when hyper is doing them for around 7-800.

Ditto. Thank you

Posted via Mobile Device

Re: meeting
 

This is not about Waynefield its about all these series outlawing the old 1100 and 1200 engines (not new ones) We are not whining Those of you who are afraid of our old engines are. Our engines have been call old outdated boat anchors that will never win a race. You say shut up and race then let us boat anchors run. But score us instead of saying we have to finish last. Dad I have a light foot lol.

Re: meeting
 

Observations of an old time over the hill racer:44:

1. Rules to make racing more affordable very seldom achieve their purpose.

2. Spec tire rules should make racing cheaper for the competitor. That means the spec tire should be supplied at a cost cheaper than the racer can buy the tire anyplace else.

3.A racer has a much better chance of winning the "A" main event even on a hard spec. tire if they start the race on a sticker right rear tire.

4.Weight is everything. We were much more successful with an inexperienced 90 pound driver than we are with a very experienced 250 pound driver.

5. If you have one of these things you really want to slow down a little >just add weight. Jerry proved this in AMSA a few years ago.

6. Racers love to experiment, some of us will do anything to be different. That makes it a challenge, and makes us racers.

7. These motors will get more powerful every year, that's how they keep on selling more motorcycles.

8.A good driver and set up man can make almost any car fast.

9. Race car chassis design changes every year. That is how they sell more cars. Sometimes they have to go back 20 or 30 years to find a new design to bring back to the racing public.

10. Even though the car design changes every year it is always the same driver and team doing the winning.

11. The stock 1000 cc motor made the outlaw 1200 cc motor too expensive and obsolete to race.

12. The stock 1000cc motor starts out life at about 175 horsepower or so, If you could get it in a 410 cubic inch version you would have a 14000 horse power sprint car motor.

13. The motor cycle people did not leave a lot of room for improvement on their design and usually modification will actually subtract horsepower from the engine.

14. If you spend a ton of money for a race motor the old "BUTT DYNO" in going to see a large horsepower increase.

15. You can not protect a person from themselves, so stop trying and save money and energy.

16. The 5% of the "1000cc Midget Racers" writing into this web site are the most vocal and opinionated S.O.B.'s that I know of, and most of them share the same last name. I might be just a little bit guilty.

17. There appear to be a few 1200cc cars out there still. They are for the most part owned by racers just getting into the sport and not wishing to spend a lot more money to re-power right now.
As a recovering addict I know if we get them hooked now when that old motor lays down they will find the money for a newer motor even if the kids have to give up shoes for the summer. I would like to see us "grandpa" these motors, mark them and say no more after this one dies..

18. It is much easier to be a nice guy if you don't write the rules.

19. Race directors need to be fair and follow the rules even if the rules suck. If it is a bad rule change it or get rid of it next year. If racers even think you are playing favorites you will loose your racers.

20. Every body likes to think that they have a chance of winning. Nobody wants to race for second place. If the director see's a certain team becoming dominant he needs to do something to slow that team down.

21. Good driving and experience means a lot in racing, these people will always be out front. New racers tend to think the guys beating them are cheating and if driving skill and experience in setting up a race car is cheating then these racers are cheating.

22. Cheaters usually run mid pack. Guys wining can't afford to be caught cheating nor do they have to.

23. These motors can make more horsepower on $25.00 a gallon race fuel than they will on methanol, even more if you add a little more nitro propane to the mix and race track fuel testers have a hard time catching them.

24. Methanol is a much safer fuel choice and very hard to cheat with.

25. Converting over to methanol is not a big cost factor. You don't need a $3000.00 conversion to do the job. I spent less than $300.00 on mine.

26. The left nerf bar rule is out of date.:) USAC has a great rule for this.:8:

27. Racing is very addictive! Once one experiences their first win much like drugs they spend the rest of their lives looking for that same high they experienced so long ago and will never be able to duplicate again. Be very careful and work on not getting addicted.

Re: meeting
 

Well said Dad, esp. #17; that's me in a nutshell (emphasize "NUT":)).
To quote Sheryl Crow, "I'll I wanna do is have some fun".
That's it. See you April 5th, if I get the old girl ready by then...

Engler is safer, buy one fuel pump every 4 years instead of 4 walbros every year!

Posted via Mobile Device

What about aftermarket velocity stacks, air boxes, and additional efi secondary's? Those are allowed?

Power commanders, auto tuners, enrichment systems, if your gonna single out one system why don't you ban them all.

Re: meeting
 

I wish this class ran at places like Bloomington and Brownstown smaller tracks as these cars aren't really intended for tracks like Lawrenceburg and places like that, then make it half wing half non-wing.

As far as rules go...

1. stock engines. (allow all fuel systems)

2. if you are on a smaller track i dont think that the weight thing comes into play especially when you take the wing off.

3. when it comes to the tire rule. make it open that takes so much fun out of racing tire set up is so big.

4. make it fun! isnt that was racing is supposed to be? reading all this makes me feel as though im sitting in front of the tv watch the past presidential debate.. where is the fun in that?

just my thoughts.

Re: meeting
 

That is exactly what Allen wanted to do, However Most people did not know that he was getting into his boxes and changing things around a little bit. Sooo in comes Power Commanders much cheaper than the cloned box at the time. Then Methanol, then high dollar alky conversions, then Englers. Allen is probably up to about 12 grand right now saying what is next.

The Rule maker need to sit down, research the subject, and decide what really adds to reliability, what adds to looks, and what adds to performance. With new motor designs it is going to get harder and harder just to drop a motor in a car and go race. It ain't going to be your grand-pa's R-1 anymore.

I like bone stock, pistons, rods, cranks, valves and cams, and trans gears. Allow external parts like injection, Power commanders, ign boxes and pumps and pans.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

If any series decided to go with a stock motor on gas, limited to a couple of manufactures motors with no add ons (stock injectors, air box, etc) I'd run with them every weekend.

I'll never understand the logic of spending $10k on a motor to win $500.

Posted via Mobile Device

DAD, in reply to your observation #21 (ironic #), you better never get in TQ racing with that thought, you win multiple races anywhere and the assumption is you got to be cheating. Doesn't apply to any certain one club either. Would love to try a mini out sometime.

Posted via Mobile Device

Re: meeting
 

Then everybody could put their number in a hat draw a number and that would be your race car for the night. It ain't motor darned it:15:. Why does everybody put soo much faith in the motor. What makes a race car fast is driving set up and moxie. If you did what I said above you would still have the same winners, and they would be cheating.

We went to the Shoot out several years ago, because we had the only car around we thought that could run with the wing off of it. We took a beat up old car with a worn out motor and over the hill driver and ran second in that thing and it sure wasn't motor. We were hooked up!

Probably the car, driver and set up guy had something to do with it?

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

God knows I had my complaints about the quarter midget rule book but engines is the one area where they did a pretty good job most of the time. You couldn't just run out and buy the newest and strongest motor, it had to be approved.....and if you wanted to spend a fortune getting it blue printed someone could just claim it at the next race.

I'd like to see a series where all the motors were either Suzuki, Kawasaki or Honda, 1000cc. Nothing newer than 05-06. There are plenty of them out there that are reasonably priced.

Stock motor on gas, all OEM parts straight off the bike....a good, hard RR spec tire. Max octane from the local gas station (no racing fuel). Now all cars are the same weight.....simple, right?

You'd lose some teams in the short run but my guess would be you'd have a strong group of cars in three to five years.

Yeah, I know I'm dreaming.....but it's an inexpensive dream.

Posted via Mobile Device

I'd like to see a series where all the motors were either Suzuki, Kawasaki or Honda, 1000cc. Nothing newer than 05-06. There are plenty of them out there that are reasonably priced.what no yamaha!!!!!!

Posted via Mobile Device

Actually, I meant to include yamaha.....But anything that is compatible and equally priced would do.

Posted via Mobile Device

Re: meeting
 

Back in my second or third time around with QMA they called that box stock. A good stocker cost more than a Double A back then. They were going on 30 years old at the time and it was hard to find a good one. Best I can remember one guy cornered the market on them and had a lease program.

Motorcycle motors are tuff but put 20,000 street miles on one and it won't live long in a race car. And I guarantee I can buy a brand new crate 2012 for what parts and labor on an 06 rebuild would be. We are in fact racing disposable engines.

Honest Dad himself:6::6: