Eldora vs. Belleville
 

The Belleville race board has been talking to USAC about possibly having midgets, silver crown, and usac sprints next year at the High Banks but they say that the Belleville High Banks is too fast for the sprintcars yet alot of people say that Eldora and Belleville High Banks are about the same? What would people think of trying the three series at Belleville?

Re: Eldora vs. Belleville
 

HMMMMMM. Nice of you to join this message board.......
If it is safe for the midgets, why would it not be safe for the sprints..........
USAC already takes all three series to a bunch of fast tracks.........
The success would all depend on the date that they are looking at..........
Since I live in the KC area, I am hopeful that this will happen..........
HMMMMMM...................

Re: Eldora vs. Belleville
 

Originally Posted by Jonr:
HMMMMMM. Nice of you to join this message board.......
If it is safe for the midgets, why would it not be safe for the sprints..........
USAC already takes all three series to a bunch of fast tracks.........
The success would all depend on the date that they are looking at..........
Since I live in the KC area, I am hopeful that this will happen..........
HMMMMMM...................

Sprintcars are quite a bit faster than a midget,years ago CRA was trying to get a race there during our annual tour and they asked some of the drivers what they thought about it and Lealand McSpadden said they were crazy for even thinking about it and that he wouldn't run there if they set up the race, as he felt it would be to dangerous at the speeds that they would be running.That was 20yrs. ago and the cars have gotten a whole lot faster than they were then.
To grader47,Belleville is a bigger track than Eldora.

They have already run a WoO Show. Don't see what the problem would be to run Non-Wing. Belleville is slower than Eldora on the stopwatch by a lot.

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Re: Eldora vs. Belleville
 

Originally Posted by treecitytornado:
They have already run a WoO Show. Don't see what the problem would be to run Non-Wing. Belleville is slower than Eldora on the stopwatch by a lot.

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That hog shed helps a whole lot though when you flip one,yes it's slower on a stop watch because it's a larger track.

Re: Eldora vs. Belleville
 

This smells of a set-up, but I will bite!
B'ville and Eldora are very close in speed, with a slight edge to B'ville. But, the real issue would be the safety differences between the two. The guard rail at B'ville is dangerous at best, and to add the speed of sprints or the weight of SC cars would create a serious safety concern? The safety features at Eldora are first class. The Big E also always has a Life-flight on the grounds because of the distance they are from a major trauma center.B'ville is along way from a trauma center. Eldora has a catch fence along the front stretch that was designed to withstand the impact of a 1500lbs. car, the catch fence at B'ville is not on the same level.

So, is B'ville to fast, no, USAC boys are the best in the game at what they do. Is B'ville to fast with the safety issues, absolutely!! :39:

Re: Eldora vs. Belleville
 

It has been a couple of years since I have been to Belleville, so I will have to believe what you say about the gaurd rails. However, if it is safe enough for the midget nationals and the WOO, I would think that it is safe enough for the USAC sprints. Your comment about the care flight does make a lot of sense. Since we are all being set up by a first time poster, why not think that USAC could make it part of the contract with the High Banks?

---------- Post added at 6:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 5:58 PM ----------

Since I have bought into this hook, line and sinker, :39: Why not take it to the next extreme. Two day show? Three day show? Midgets and 305's Thursday night, Midgets and SC Friday night, and Midgets and sprints Saturday night? All classes all nights? Another stand alone date or does this replace the midget nationals show?

Re: Eldora vs. Belleville
 

Well, it's an exciting proposition for sure, and one I've advocated since Belleville went from a 3-day to a 2-day event. It certainly makes sense to me on a fan level to combine the midgets with either sprints or SC, and I'd definitely be "all-in" if they can figure out a way to make it happen. But does it make sense to the competitors? I can't answer that. Is there danger involved? Of course. I think we all agree there's danger with the midgets. Is there added danger for sprints because of the retaining fence (or lack thereof) and the increased speeds? I suppose that could be argued. And while it's certainly true that Belleville is a good distance from a major trauma center, there is a hospital in town that serves a fairly large region, so they must have some trauma capabilities. But in order for this to happen (with USAC sanction), some fence mending would have to take place. My impression is that there's no love lost between USAC and the fair board. Lots of questions would need to be answered before this event could happen, the first one being which group would be willing to initiate the discussion? Maybe Belleville has taken that initiative, if grader47 is to be believed (no offense grader47, but rumors and half-truths fly pretty freely on this forum). And which group would be willing to sacrifice their philosophical position in order for both parties (and let's not forget the fans) to get to experience an unforgettable weekend on one of this country's most iconic tracks? My opinion? An event like this would be a win-win-win. I hope there's some truth behind the assertion. Sorry for being so long-winded.

Re: Eldora vs. Belleville
 

as far as sprint cars being faster than midgets? the midgets n the sprints run about the same times at eldora

Re: Eldora vs. Belleville
 

You always like to see the people putting on an event trying to improve it but are they grasping at straws here?

Re: Eldora vs. Belleville
 

I've never seen a midget run in the 14 second range at Eldora,but have seen sprints do it. They might be the around the same speed when it's dry slick,but not when it's good and hammer down.

Re: Eldora vs. Belleville
 

Originally Posted by barny oldfeller:
as far as sprint cars being faster than midgets? the midgets n the sprints run about the same times at eldora

Sprint track record is over a second faster than the midget record.

Tim Wolffrum aka Cowboy

Re: Eldora vs. Belleville
 

Let me tell you, I love both places, But belleville is faster and meaner, would love to see sprints and silvercrown there. ossuks is right, the gaurdrail is about 2 1/2 feet tall with no fence. I wish belleville was in indiana. For those of you who have never been, You have no ideal!!!

Re: Eldora vs. Belleville
 

Originally Posted by cowboyhar69:
Sprint track record is over a second faster than the midget record.

Tim Wolffrum aka Cowboy

And the winged sprint track record is two seconds faster than a non wing car.

If Belleville can handle a WOO car it should be able to handle a non wing car.

Re: Eldora vs. Belleville
 

Originally Posted by Jonr:
And the winged sprint track record is two seconds faster than a non wing car.

If Belleville can handle a WOO car it should be able to handle a non wing car.

A wing car is a lot more stable and locked down than a non wing car is,and that makes a big difference.

There is such a difference between the way you drive the two tracks. Eldora is bad fast, and I really struggled there for a long time and a lot of respect for the place. But when both tracks are on the fence, Eldora you run with the right rear hung out against the cushion, working the throttle. When Belleville is on the cushion, you are spending most of your time staring directly at the guardrail and turning left, wide open. I wasn't at the WoO show, so I can't say anything about it. I have seen 305 and 360 sprints run there. I know with less HP, they can't always run as high, but they generally aren't right against the guardrail like the midgets. Maybe the WoO cars were. Wing cars don't tend to throw the dirt up the track as much as non wing cars. I, along with plenty others, have been pushing for Silver Crown cars to get to Belleville. I do not think non wing sprint cars belong at Belleville. I stay in touch with the fairboard and I know they really want to build Belleville back. So keep that weekend open. I'm thinkin it will good

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Re: Eldora vs. Belleville
 

Pretty much knew the WOO cars ran B'ville would be used as a reason to race USAC sprints at B'ville. And really don't want to get into the wing/non-wing, USAC vs WOO thing. But, let me put a little light on how I felt a few years ago when working for USAC and attending B'ville as a USAC representative and having discussions with the fairboard about this exact topic.

The above mentioned safety issues were areas that had to be addressed, but more importantly was the fact that there was no need to race sprints or SC at B'ville. Why/or what was my reasoning:

The men that drive those cars are men that I grew up with and or was watching grow up. The men that drove those cars were sons, brothers, husbands, friends, uncles and DADDYS. There are 100's of race tracks around the country that we could race on that did not pose the safety hazards of racing at B'ville. I know, racing is dangerous and you can give me example after example of how drivers were injured and killed at short tracks with top speeds of 60mph (I have had the misfortune of witnessing 2 deaths at Speedrome/a 1/5 mile flat paved track)but really we all know that the potential for tragedy would be huge in comparison to most other "short tracks" AND yes, there are those that love the big fast places, I know Jerry loves B'ville as do a hand full of others, but why are there 200+ cars at Tulsa and 18 at B'ville? The Gold Crown Nationals averages 50 cars, why was there only 18 at B'ville?? Remember, Putnumville has ran as many races this year as there have been B'ville midget nationals, so, if all the major injuries that have happened over the history of the Nationals had happened this year at Put, there would be no racers at Putnumville.

It was my feeling that we could race Bloomington, Kokomo, Gas City, Eastern Storm, Buck-eye Nationals, ect... and our guys would be surrounded by a much safer facility then THE HIGH BANKS!
I always felt grateful (and lucky) each year that we left B'ville and we did not leave someone behind.

So while I'm preaching let me add this, those of you that have a man racing that you care about: go to the ambulance where you are racing and find out:
1-Can the ambulance transport?
2- If no, you will be assured that they are only 5-7 minutes from the fire station,or something similar, they will leave out the IF the equipment is not already on a run! By the way, can you hold your breath for 7 minutes?
3- Do they have a Paramedic? Not an EMT, and don't for one minute buy into the qualifications of an EMT vs a Paramedic.
4- What kind of fire equipment do they have? Do they have plenty of water to secure the driver, do not think a few 5lbs water cannon will get the job done?
5- As of October of 2010 USAC had lowered their safety standards and no longer required a paramedic, I told Kevin Miller I would not work in 2012 without paramedics, I don't know why he replaced me in 2012, I'm still waiting on a answer?


**** Bellville always had the best in safety equipment and staffing[/quote]

**** There are several Tracks that have great safety teams, but, there are several that do not!

---------- Post added at 12:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:32 AM ----------

Originally Posted by coondog:
There is such a difference between the way you drive the two tracks. Eldora is bad fast, and I really struggled there for a long time and a lot of respect for the place. But when both tracks are on the fence, Eldora you run with the right rear hung out against the cushion, working the throttle. When Belleville is on the cushion, you are spending most of your time staring directly at the guardrail and turning left, wide open. I wasn't at the WoO show, so I can't say anything about it. I have seen 305 and 360 sprints run there. I know with less HP, they can't always run as high, but they generally aren't right against the guardrail like the midgets. Maybe the WoO cars were. Wing cars don't tend to throw the dirt up the track as much as non wing cars. I, along with plenty others, have been pushing for Silver Crown cars to get to Belleville. I do not think non wing sprint cars belong at Belleville. I stay in touch with the fairboard and I know they really want to build Belleville back. So keep that weekend open. I'm thinkin it will good

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Over the years the conversation always come up "who was the best you ever seen?" I always replied that there were some that were specialist at certain forms of racing, and when it comes to the BIG FAST joints IMO Jerry is as good if not the best I've seen in my lifetime.

Re: Eldora vs. Belleville
 

Originally Posted by coondog:
There is such a difference between the way you drive the two tracks. Eldora is bad fast, and I really struggled there for a long time and a lot of respect for the place. But when both tracks are on the fence, Eldora you run with the right rear hung out against the cushion, working the throttle. When Belleville is on the cushion, you are spending most of your time staring directly at the guardrail and turning left, wide open. I wasn't at the WoO show, so I can't say anything about it. I have seen 305 and 360 sprints run there. I know with less HP, they can't always run as high, but they generally aren't right against the guardrail like the midgets. Maybe the WoO cars were. Wing cars don't tend to throw the dirt up the track as much as non wing cars. I, along with plenty others, have been pushing for Silver Crown cars to get to Belleville. I do not think non wing sprint cars belong at Belleville. I stay in touch with the fairboard and I know they really want to build Belleville back. So keep that weekend open. I'm thinkin it will good

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I did attend the WoO race this year, plus I've been to a couple of All Star shows there in conjunction with the midget nats, and if memory serves, the winged 410s run ALMOST as high as the midgets, but not quite. I don't recall seeing any of the sprints running up against the rail. Incidentally, in checking the Highbanks web site, there's a 3.2 seconds difference in track records between sprints and midgets: 14.258 compared to 17.500.

Re: Eldora vs. Belleville
 

Originally Posted by ossuks:
Pretty much knew the WOO cars ran B'ville would be used as a reason to race USAC sprints at B'ville. And really don't want to get into the wing/non-wing, USAC vs WOO thing......... The above mentioned safety issues were areas that had to be addressed........

......... but why are there 200+ cars at Tulsa and 18 at B'ville? The Gold Crown Nationals averages 50 cars, why was there only 18 at B'ville?? Remember, Putnumville has ran as many races this year as there have been B'ville midget nationals...........

It was my feeling that we could race Bloomington, Kokomo, Gas City, Eastern Storm, Buck-eye Nationals, ect... and our guys would be surrounded by a much safer facility then THE HIGH BANKS!
I always felt grateful (and lucky) each year that we left B'ville and we did not leave someone behind...........

**** Bellville always had the best in safety equipment and staffing

........[/QUOTE]

Your post has a couple of intersting points. You state that you always felt lucky to leave Belleville with no injuries. Is your concern with the track facitlities or the speed of the track? It would seem that if the facilities are the issue that the track would not be safe for any of the four classes that are being discussed. I thought that people were arguing that the cars are going too fast, which is why I was arguing the case for the WOO cars. I understand that they are different cars with different styles. However, the WOO cars do go faster.

The point about the midget car count is another topic entirely. I have a lot of opinions about that one. :deadhorse:

Reading CoonDogs post was also very interesting because he is one of my favorite drivers. :9: However, a Belleville midget nationals with Silver Crown cars does not sound as exciting as a triple bill. A triple bill show at Belleville would be a "must see".

Re: Eldora vs. Belleville
 

Originally Posted by Jonr:
........

Your post has a couple of intersting points. You state that you always felt lucky to leave Belleville with no injuries. Is your concern with the track facitlities or the speed of the track? It would seem that if the facilities are the issue that the track would not be safe for any of the four classes that are being discussed. I thought that people were arguing that the cars are going too fast, which is why I was arguing the case for the WOO cars. I understand that they are different cars with different styles. However, the WOO cars do go faster.

The point about the midget car count is another topic entirely. I have a lot of opinions about that one. :deadhorse:

Reading CoonDogs post was also very interesting because he is one of my favorite drivers. :9: However, a Belleville midget nationals with Silver Crown cars does not sound as exciting as a triple bill. A triple bill show at Belleville would be a "must see".[/QUOTE]


This is one persons opinion (mine), which will get you a free cup of nothing!! I spent 34 years traveling the country doing races for USAC, so I do feel that I have a little knowledge (some would say very little:3:). When you add the speed at B'ville to the lack of updated safety issues you have a situation that has an above average chance for a tragic situation!!

One example that I thought about a lot is the catch fence on the front stretch needs to extend 150 ft or so farther toward turn 4, when Scott Hatten hit a spinning Teddy Beach (no way to avoid) he sailed close to 175 feet outside the track, had that same situation happened off turn 4, we would not be discussing any type of racing at B'vill

Re: Eldora vs. Belleville
 

One thing about ossuks that no driver could ever argue is his commitment to their safety. I would trust his judgement call on track safety any day.

Finding out tonight that half mile tracks are just too much for midgets! Only 17 cars at Eldora.

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Re: Eldora vs. Belleville
 

Kenny Jacobs take on which track is faster
You Tube Video

The midgets were flying and i thought there features and heats were excellent. To bad there were only 17. Very good racing

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