Good article on lps about curfew
 

Late night at Lincoln Park kicking up more than mud
Wednesday, September 19, 2012

By JARED JERNAGAN, Assistant Editor
Bright lights, loud noise and flying dirt: It's just living the dream for the hotshoes who flock to dirt tracks every Saturday night.
For residents of Putnamville and the surrounding area, the early morning hours of Sunday, Sept. 9 played out more like a nightmare.

On Sept. 8, a night Lincoln Park Speedway's owner referred to as "a 500-year storm," a double bill, a late start and record numbers of racers and spectators converged to make the latest night in the track's history.

Things did not wind down until 5:30 a.m.

Citizens took their concerns to the Putnam County Commissioners Monday evening, complaining not only of the recent late night, but of noise, dust, light and trash each Saturday night from April through September.

"We're three miles away and we couldn't sleep," said Lee Stewart, who lives south of Putnamville with wife Susan.

The Stewarts had with them county documents from the 1990s that established the track's operating hours as ending at midnight. However, the documents listed no penalty for going beyond midnight.

"We're not trying to close them down," Stewart said, "we're just trying to get what was established back in 1992."

A number of other residents added their complaints to the list. Among these were the noise generated on a weekly basis, dust kicked up at the track, trash in nearby yards and lights from both spectators' vehicles and the track itself.

"It's really hard to stay home on a Saturday night," one neighbor said.

Of course, not everyone in the neighborhood had a problem with the track.

"That race track was there when I bought my house," one man said. "I knew it was there. I knew what race tracks were. Most nights they are out of there by midnight."

Both Lincoln Park promoter Joe Spiker and facility owner Dave Allison addressed the commissioners as well, confronting some of the issues brought forth by the residents.

"An apology does nothing at this point," Spiker said. "We were behind the eight ball from the beginning that night.

"We had more cars in our facility that night than any dirt track in the state of Indiana ever. There were 184," he continued. "We usually set the fireworks off at dark. We were an hour and 28 minutes late. The fireworks were shot off at 11:17. That was too late. I was aware of that. Everybody was aware of that."

As the night got later, Spiker said his no-win situation only got worse. Not only did he have to think about disrupting the neighbors, but also about fairness to drivers and fans.

"We tried everything within our power to be fair to our patrons. We cut laps. We counted caution laps," Spiker said. "When they're racing for $3,000, they want every lap they can race. We took a lot of flack for that and we knew everybody would be upset."

Asked if he could guarantee events would not run after midnight, Spiker said he could not. He said even if the county were to establish a penalty for exceeding the time, he would still have angry drivers who felt their night was cut short.

He said Sept. 8 was only the fourth time the track has gone past midnight in 2012, and none of the others had been past 1 a.m.

"That was a one-time thing -- it will never happen again," Spiker said. "We don't need people upset. I try to be a good steward of the race track and I want to make it where it's done by midnight or no later than 2 in the morning."

Allison, who owns the property and ran the business before Spiker, addressed a number of the other issues. He said ambient light from the speedway does not leave the track.

He said decibel meters would read zero in houses outside the immediate area -- a notion at which many residents scoffed.

In addressing the dust issue, though, both he and Spiker said much more dust is generated by the nearby Lincoln Park Stone facility than by the track operating one day a week.

Moreover, a dirt track is ideally muddy, not dusty, both for the quality of racing and the comfort of spectators.

"As a promoter, you want moisture," Allison said. "Dust will run your fans off and your drivers will be screaming at you all night."

While expressing sympathy with both sides, the commissioners said they were in no position to make a decision on Monday.

"We're not going to resolve this tonight," Commissioner President Kristina Alexander said. "We're going to have to have a special meeting and talk to the parties and get something resolved."

A special meeting of the commissioners and the county attorney, the owners and their attorneys and a representative of the residents and their legal counsel will be scheduled at a later date.

Re: Good article on lps about curfew
 

"We had more cars in our facility that night than any dirt track in the state of Indiana ever. There were 184,"


Close. might have been most ever for LPS (an yes I was there also an had a blast watching the races that night) but not all tracks ever. I can understand a curfew but 11:00 is totally absured. Midnight yes with a little give an take on both sides. You guys at LPS did all you could do, you had the next race rolling out as soon as the other one ended. Cant ask for anything more than that.


Brownstown Speedway History

TRACK RECORDS







•Total Race Cars at one event - 205 (Sept. 1995) (an im sure other tracks in Indiana have surpassed that mark also)

Re: Good article on lps about curfew
 

I think midnight is a good target time to end the races. We all know that once in a while things out of your control can make a show last a little longer. Think Joe's main point about the car count is this does not happen every week and I think this is a once in a life time event that most of us may never see again in our life. Hopefully everyone can come together and work through this without setting a bunch of curfews. Getting the show over at a decent hour is and should be every promoters goal no matter where they are located. Both drivers and fans do not want to spend that long at a racetrack you want to put on a good and fast show so everyone is happy and will return next week. It is not Joe's objective to see how long the show can drag on he really has nothing to gain and everything to lose if this happened every week.

uh dad...he said "that night" as in they had the most cars on that particular evening than any other track in indiana.

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Re: Good article on lps about curfew
 

Originally Posted by Chris Nunn:
uh dad...he said "that night" as in they had the most cars on that particular evening than any other track in indiana.

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He also said "ever."

Re: Good article on lps about curfew
 

Dont give my father a big head.

Re: Good article on lps about curfew
 

I thought Joe Spiker's quotes were very good. I do not think 11 is too early for a place providing family entertainment. If parents are leaving with kids that are asleep, you are missing out on the future. I went to Gas City last Fri, and left after the sprint feature. When I got on the road it was 9:22. It made me happy since I had to work Sat.

Re: Good article on lps about curfew
 

With a car count of 184..you might think a two day show for 2013 would be on the drawing board. That is a lot of pit passes..:16

Re: Good article on lps about curfew
 

Originally Posted by Poorboyjocko:
With a car count of 184..you might think a two day show for 2013 would be on the drawing board. That is a lot of pit passes..:16

This was the result of the king of non-wing being postponed one week to the same night as the patriot 100. This is not a normal event.

Originally Posted by Poorboyjocko:
With a car count of 184..you might think a two day show for 2013 would be on the drawing board. That is a lot of pit passes..:16

It was originally a 2 day show, the King of Non Wing sprint show got rained out the Sat before. The problem was running 2 big shows in one night. I liked it myself, wife and kids not so much!

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Re: Good article on lps about curfew
 

Most on this board could care less how long a race goes on, but the problem is people with families and getting NEW fans (and getting them to come back.) There is a reason the NFL games are 60 minutes long with timeouts for certain plays and just a couple of years ago Major League Baseball was on speeding the game up big time. They had various research companies survey fans and the conclusion that they came up with was 3 to 3 and a half hours was just about the limit that people wanted to be at an event. Whenever I have taken a newbie to a race I always notice they get mighty restless after 10:30.

Tim Wolffrum aka Cowboy

Re: Good article on lps about curfew
 

Originally Posted by Rogue-9:
This was the result of the king of non-wing being postponed one week to the same night as the patriot 100. This is not a normal event.

An ex post facto bad decision to combine the two.

---------- Post added at 6:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 6:41 PM ----------

Best to just promise never to put a car on the track after midnight. What happened was clearly extremely poor judgement but get over it and make a significant intervention before the opposition mounts a decimating and irreversible campaign.

Re: Good article on lps about curfew
 

The fairgrounds here puts anywhere from 100-125 cars on the track every Saturday night with an 11pm curfew and they are done between 10-10:30 every week.

Re: Good article on lps about curfew
 

in the NJ/PA area, most all tracks have curfews. the way they are set up can vary from track to track....for example, the last race cant start past 11 PM.....or the show cant run past midnight, or, at one of the micro tracks that is in the center of town, the show is done by 10.
some towns impose fines for going past curfew. some its plain and simple....you dont go past curfew....period.
i have left williams grove after an outlaw show as the sun was coming up and one night after racing at lincoln, the sun was up when we rolled in.
one of the worst places as far as curfew (and back gate promoting) is accord speedway in NY. they run about a half a million classes and every night we ran the midgets there, they were curfewed out and the "regular classes" bitched up a storm saying the midgets were responsible for them not being able to run their races.
the point is.....if there is a curfew in place....ya just gotta go with it. you might piss off a few racers or teams but they will get over it. the neighbors might not and it only takes one to start a committee and then it snowballs to the point of unrealistic demands and possibly shutting down the track all together.

Re: Good article on lps about curfew
 

Originally Posted by sw1911:
An ex post facto bad decision to combine the two.

Love it. First time I've seen the term ex post facto used anywhere but a courtroom or a classroom. :9:

SW, I agree with you, even though hindsight is still 20/20.

Re: Good article on lps about curfew
 

There is no reason for them to go past 12:00.

Re: Good article on lps about curfew
 

"I try to be a good steward of the race track and I want to make it where it's done by midnight or no later than 2 in the morning."

Which is it Joe, midnight or 2 AM?

Which is it Joe, midnight or 2 AM?[/QUOTE]

I'm sure if he had control over how many red flags and yellows, And new if he was going to have 80 cars or 180. He would be better able to tell you which one it would be. Not counting track and parking situation if he had 3.5" of rain the night before and was still trying to put a race on for us when others cancelled.

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Re: Good article on lps about curfew
 

Originally Posted by mayor31:
Which is it Joe, midnight or 2 AM?

I'm sure if he had control over how many red flags and yellows, And new if he was going to have 80 cars or 180. He would be better able to tell you which one it would be. Not counting track and parking situation if he had 3.5" of rain the night before and was still trying to put a race on for us when others cancelled.

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No one cancelled that night because none of the other sprint car tracks were scheduled to run. So the large car count was rather predictable.

There were extra modifieds there cause Montpelier had canceled. I'm not arguing it didnt go later then needed im just saying with extra time it took getting cars pitted cause of the large car count set them back. Part of the reason is also the racers fault for getting to the track late.

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Re: Good article on lps about curfew
 

A predictable large car count?

In 2010 and 2011 the KNW & Patriot 100 raced on different nights.

King of NonWing Sprints
Car Count in 2010: 36
Car Count in 2011: 34
Avg car count for 2010 & 2011 is... 35
Car Count in 2012: 55

Patriot 100
Car count in 2010: 53
Car count in 2011: 43
Avg car count for 2010 & 2011 is... 48
Car count in 2012: 72

There was an 83 car average for 2010 and 2011. In 2012, 83 Sprints and Modifieds is a large car count so to say that a large car count was expected is correct but no one can honestly say they expected 127 Sprints and Modifieds when USAC was racing in Arkansas and the UMP modifieds had another big payout race at Spoon River.

127 - 83 = 44 cars (the same number of cars as the first night of Kokomo Smackdown and also the 3rd highest sprint car count in Indiana for 2012.)

No one expected 184 cars in the pits at LPS. After the initial delay to get started, the races ran back to back without any large delays other than the fireworks.

As for the meeting... Once the county attorney told the residents that what they had in writing was nothing more than minutes from a 1992 or 1994 commissioners meeting and it had no legal standing... they started bickering about dust, lights, noise, trash... you name it.

There is no dispute that Joe wants to get the races finished at a reasonable hour which is why these events will NOT be scheduled on the same night again.

For me personally this is more about supporting the track than it is about pointing blame. As Danny said... hindsight is still 20/20.

Re: Good article on lps about curfew
 

Originally Posted by Bill Gardner:
A predictable large car count?

In 2010 and 2011 the KNW & Patriot 100 raced on different nights.

King of NonWing Sprints
Car Count in 2010: 36
Car Count in 2011: 34
Avg car count for 2010 & 2011 is... 35
Car Count in 2012: 55

Patriot 100
Car count in 2010: 53
Car count in 2011: 43
Avg car count for 2010 & 2011 is... 48
Car count in 2012: 72

There was an 83 car average for 2010 and 2011. In 2012, 83 Sprints and Modifieds is a large car count so to say that a large car count was expected is correct but no one can honestly say they expected 127 Sprints and Modifieds when USAC was racing in Arkansas and the UMP modifieds had another big payout race at Spoon River.

127 - 83 = 44 cars (the same number of cars as the first night of Kokomo Smackdown and also the 3rd highest sprint car count in Indiana for 2012.)

No one expected 184 cars in the pits at LPS. After the initial delay to get started, the races ran back to back without any large delays other than the fireworks.

As for the meeting... Once the county attorney told the residents that what they had in writing was nothing more than minutes from a 1992 or 1994 commissioners meeting and it had no legal standing... they started bickering about dust, lights, noise, trash... you name it.

There is no dispute that Joe wants to get the races finished at a reasonable hour which is why these events will NOT be scheduled on the same night again.

For me personally this is more about supporting the track than it is about pointing blame. As Danny said... hindsight is still 20/20.

But were Paragon and the burg dark the last 2 years on King of non-wing night? Thats what I was referring to.

Re: Good article on lps about curfew
 

John... Do us both a favor and if you are really interested in those facts... Look them up.;)

Re: Good article on lps about curfew
 

yes paragons usealy closed labor day weekend and as of lately not many paragon regulars dont come to lps because of tire rule, was it the right thing to double up the shows NO, but like other people stated hindsight , bet it wont happen agin so lets move forward and get over it, think some people just live for drama on here or just like to have a say, :47:

Re: Good article on lps about curfew
 

Originally Posted by Bill Gardner:
John... Do us both a favor and if you are really interested in those facts... Look them up.;)

Ok in 2010 it ran on tuesday the 7th so being a tuesday there would be lEss drivers show up than on a weekend. last year it(King of non-wings) ran on the 3rd, labor day weekend and both the burg and Paragon ran. the burg had 27 cars and I cant find in the short time I have to do this at work how many they had at paragon but I imagine it was in the 30's. SO last year there were 55-60 cars running at other tracks that werent running at Put. I stand by my statement if he knew no one else was running wouldnt a reasonable person expect a larger than normal car count?

Re: Good article on lps about curfew
 

Oh what the heck... I'm a numbers guy anyway. :3:

In 2010... The KNW was raced on Saturday, Sept 4th http://www.lincolnparkspeedway.com/2...esults_9_4.htm

The Patriot was on Sept 11th, one day after the USAC race on Friday. http://www.lincolnparkspeedway.com/2...ts/results.htm

In 2011... the KNW was on Sept 3rd. Lawrenceburg and LPS raced. Paragon did not. LPS had 34 sprints. Burg had 25 sprints. Total of 59 sprints.

https://www.indianaopenwheel.com/2011IOWDC.php

The Patriot 100 was Sept 10th. No other tracks raced modifieds on that night. LPS car count was 43.

https://www.indianaopenwheel.com/2011IOWMDC.php

For 2012... On nights where no other track was racing.

Sprint Cars (Top 10 largest car counts)

1	9/8/12	Lincoln Park Speedway	Regular Show	55	KNW	$2000 to win
2	7/13/12	Gas City I-69 Speedway	Special Show	47	Sprint Week	$5000 to win
3	8/23/12	Kokomo Speedway	Special Show	44	Smackdown	$5000 to win
4	7/6/12	Bloomington Speedway	Special Show	43	Sheldon Kinser Memorial	$4000 to win
5	7/20/12	Bloomington Speedway	Special Show	43	Sprint Week	$5000 to win
6	7/16/12	Kokomo Speedway	Special Show	40	Sprint Week	$5000 to win
7	7/22/12	Lincoln Park Speedway	Special Show	40	Sprint Week	$5000 to win
8	7/15/12	Lawrenceburg Speedway	Special Show	39	Sprint Week	$5000 to win
9	8/24/12	Kokomo Speedway	Special Show	39	Smackdown	$5000 to win
10	6/15/12	Bloomington Speedway	Regular Show	36	Midget Week	$1400 to win

Modifieds (Top 10 largest car counts)

1	9/8/12	Lincoln Park Speedway	72
2	7/8/12	Tri-State Speedway	54
3	3/24/12	Brownstown Speedway	46
4	7/4/12	Shadyhill Speedway	41
5	7/20/12	Montpelier Motor Speedway	41
6	6/13/12	Brownstown Speedway	39
7	6/26/12	Lincoln Park Speedway	39
8	3/17/12	Brownstown Speedway	38
9	3/10/12	Brownstown Speedway	32
10	5/24/12	Terre Haute Action Track	30

If someone can predict how many cars are going to show up at a track... the promoters need to hire them!!!:3:

Re: Good article on lps about curfew
 

John... relax. I'm just having fun.:3:

And BTW... LAWRENCEBURG CHEVROLET SPRINTS

September 4, 2010 – Lawrenceburg, Indiana — Lawrenceburg Speedway

HEAT 1 — 1. 76 JJ Hughes, 2. 14 Coleman Gulick, 3. 4M John Memmer, 4. 7S Jake Simmons, 5. 53 Mike Miller, 6. 71X Jason Soudrette, 7. 9H Logan Hupp, 8. 4D Kyle Dautrich, 9. 20 Steve Thomas.

HEAT 2 — 1. 5E Bobby East, 2. 98 Chad Boespflug, 3. 11 Scotty Weir, 4. 27A Andrew Elson, 5. 3M Mark Perry III, 6. 09 JR Douglas, 7. 7 Brian Olson, 8. 22W Mike Weber, DNS 51X Steve Bixler.

HEAT 3 — 1. 89 Shawn Westerfeld, 2. 35 Hunter Schuerenberg, 3. 17B Brett Burdette, 4. 5 Justin Grant, 5. 9K Kevin Thomas, Jr., 6. 36 Brady Short, 7. 5K Jordan Kinser, 8. 4 Michael Fischesser.

B MAIN — 1. 36 Brady Short, 2. 09 JR Douglas, 3. 9H Logan Hupp, 4. 71X Jason Soudrette, 5. 7 Brian Olson, 6. 4 Michael Fischesser, 7. 5K Jordan Kinser, 8. 22W Mike Weber, 9. 4D Kyle Dautrich, 10. 20 Steve Thomas, 11. 51X Steve Bixler.

FEATURE — 1. 5E Bobby East, 2. 89 Shawn Westerfeld, 3. 35 Hunter Schuerenberg, 4. 14 Coleman Gulick, 5. 36 Brady Short, 6. 27A Andrew Elson, 7. 11 Scotty Weir, 8. 98 Chad Boespflug, 9. 09 JR Douglas, 10. 76 JJ Hughes, 11. 7 Brian Olson, 12. 53 Mike Miller, 13. 3M Mark Perry III, 14. 71X Jason Soudrette, 15. 4M John Memmer, 16. 7S Jake Simmons, 17. 17B Brett Burdette, 18. 9H Logan Hupp, 19. 5 Justin Grant, 20. 9K Kevin Thomas, Jr.

Lap Leaders: 1-11 89 Shawn Westerfeld, 12-25 5E Bobby East

:5: I need a new smiley where one smiley is constantly poking at the other smiley.;)

Re: Good article on lps about curfew
 

Everyone neglects to factor in the amount of rain the night before into the equasion of the late night. That didnt help matters any,I dont think anyways.

I am curious though if Hoover could have predicted just 11 cars there last week at P-Ville,and the car counts they have been getting over at Flora as well. And whats the predicted count for this weekend at P-Ville and Eldora?

Re: Good article on lps about curfew
 

I better watch out...

Bill--> :34: <-- John

Re: Good article on lps about curfew
 

Originally Posted by Bill Gardner:
I better watch out...

Bill--> :34: <-- John

You think he'd hit a guy on a golf cart ?? :D:D:D

Re: Good article on lps about curfew
 

Originally Posted by Bill Gardner:
I better watch out...

Bill--> :34: <-- John

Not to worry Bill, we will get Swordman to stop by!:3:

Andrew I will be the first to give it a shot. Eldora with 35 sprints and LPS with 31.:31:

Re: Good article on lps about curfew
 

Originally Posted by Bill Gardner:
I better watch out...

Bill--> :34: <-- John

Bill: Be glad he can't kick any higher.

I did see were Nintendo was coming out with a promoters game for all the keyboard jockeys. Run your own race track and see how much better you can do then the real owners. Even has a live message board so you can see everyone bashing you and your tracks every decision. Has a weather station that isn't very accurate so it keeps you guess all week and race day on how much water to put on the track. And also has SHORTBUS in the stands there to cheer on the racers.

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Re: Good article on lps about curfew
 

Originally Posted by mayor31:
I did see were Nintendo was coming out with a promoters game for all the keyboard jockeys. Run your own race track and see how much better you can do then the real owners. Even has a live message board so you can see everyone bashing you and your tracks every decision. Has a weather station that isn't very accurate so it keeps you guess all week and race day on how much water to put on the track. And also has SHORTBUS in the stands there to cheer on the racers.

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Craig... It's a Playstation game. :D

Re: Good article on lps about curfew
 

I'll wager the "live part" will be interesting, as well as quiet, just sayin! Bob

Re: Good article on lps about curfew
 

Originally Posted by Andrew S. Quinn:
Everyone neglects to factor in the amount of rain the night before into the equasion of the late night. That didnt help matters any,I dont think anyways.

I am curious though if Hoover could have predicted just 11 cars there last week at P-Ville,and the car counts they have been getting over at Flora as well. And whats the predicted count for this weekend at P-Ville and Eldora?

naa I didnt expect 11. Eldora runs for more $ so Put should get more cars, isnt that the way it goes?

---------- Post added at 3:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 3:48 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Andrew S. Quinn:
You think he'd hit a guy on a golf cart ?? :D:D:D

No but if he stands up..........:D

Bill mayor31 has a gps that lets him know roughly where to turn lol. Been hearing rumors that his mod will be first with auto steer

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His GPS is always repeating the same thing... re-calculating. ;)

Every now and then it says... More throttle.

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Re: Good article on lps about curfew
 

:5: :8: :44: