INDYCAR finale
 

that was a hell of a finish last night! ed carpenter drove a great race and ryan hunter-reay drove the race of his life. it was good to see a 500 mile oval race take its spot as the season finale. so much can happen over 500 miles. its also nice to have an american INDYCAR champion again!

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Don't get use to this though. Next year will see the addition of a Houston street reace as the finale, and two other races as very likely additions: Providence, RI as a street race and Pocono as 500 miler.

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Very cool to have an American national champion and an American winner last night! Kudos to RHR, Andretti Autosport, and Ed Carpenter - last night's "forgotten" man, LOL!

Yes great to see Ed get his 2nd career Win and first 500 mile Win! Great having an American Champion in Ryan Hunter-Reay!

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Re: INDYCAR finale
 

That was an awsome race! Man I really hope they do not mess with this new car to much in the off season. The racing has been great at just about every race this year. I cannot beleive there are only 4 posts about this with all of the complaining about indy car in the past. I really thought it was good that Indy car made a big deal out of RHR being an American. Even Bernard carring the flag up and putting it on his trophy. Not going to lie 1 bit I am a Power fan, but he pushed to hard. Champions might get caught up in someone elses wreck, but they do not wreck on there own on championship night. Carpenter was flat flying the 2nd half of that race. Ed should go hire Conway to run his car on the road courses. That would be a very good duo. As a fan I give Indy Car an A+ on the season. I watched every single race. There was only 1 really bad race. There was passing everywhere. To improve the racing as much as they did this year with a brand new car is impressive. I can not wait until 2013.

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Ed Carpenter congrats on that win! The drama for the championship was second to none. The last 8 years have come down to the last race for the championship. (who needs the chase) I have watched most races this year and must say the road courses were more entertaining than usual. Ovals just still have much better racing than road courses. They built these new cars to be safer on ovals so lets ink some dates. There should be close to a 50/50 mix. I'm still not seeing the media coverage these guys deserve. Great race and it was a true 500 miler.

The ovals like Texas and California prove that IndyCar Needs more ovals!
Please schedule more ovals for 2013! Please! Less street races!

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Sounds like Pocono will be on the 2013 schedule. Not sure what else they will muster up. Would really like to see Richmond get back on the schedule. I know Kentucky was a fan problem, that always made for a great race. I do not think Indy car will be at 50/50 for a few more years. Most of these places still struggle to get fans to show up. It is still going to take a few years to get the word out, how good things have become. We need another really good Indy 500 this year to keep things moving.

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I know this won't go down very well on this forum, but what Indy Car really needs is more races with fans in the stands. They get that with the road course races. The ovals, not as much, at least not consistently.

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I honestly didn't know they were running this weekend!!!!...that's how poor their promotion is.....if you're not an avid fan and don't stay up on the series via i-net, you won't know they are racing...I never see an ad on prime time TV or, anywhere else for that matter.....I just can't believe they let it get away from them again with all of this road racing......I loved the indy cars and this just svcks!!!!! Here's hoping for more ovals and Americans in the future but...alas...I'm not counting on it

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Not sure i agree with this. I've noticed empty bleachers at sanoma and the Canada races. So if the reality of the situation is that you have about 30k at both street and ovals. Then why does the indycar community believe that 30k on a street race (where you can't see the crowd) a success? And 30k at an oval where you can see the crowd a failure? I just don't think a formula feeder series will ever work in the US.

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The road courses aren't drawing as well as they appear, either. My understanding is they corral the fans into certain areas to make it appear that they have a better crowd than they actually have...

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Something else that drives me crazy is if you go to trackforum then you will see thread after thread about how it's not politically correct to cheer for the American because they are American. What? When I bet those people beat their heads against the wall during the Olympics. What's wrong with a little USA patriotism?

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I would have to disagree with that. I watched every single race. All of the road courses and street circuits have fans strung out around the course. I am sure like the ovals, they do shut down certain stands. The difference between ovals and street circuits, is the Sponsorship. It is easier to get sponsorship for a street circuit than an oval. Think of how many people are going to see the advertising. On an oval it will just be the people that attend the race. On a street circuit, anyone in the area will see the advertising. Banners start getting hung the week before the race. In some cases, some will not get taken down for about a week after the race. How many Thousands of people work in these areas. Look at the ones that run along Busy interstates, you know that advertising is set up so that the people driving can see them. You may have 15 or 20 thousand fans that purchase tickets to the race, but how many people are on Roof tops and watching out of buildings? if you are a company and you have just enough money to be the title sponsor for 1 race, which race are you going to spend it at, an oval where 30,000 maximum are going to see it, or a road course that has 15,000 ticket fans on race day who knows how many fans in buildings and on roof tops + prerace and post race advertising. This is why Baltimore can get a huge sponsor, and Milwaukee struggles.

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The one major thing I would like to see different in Indycar is some sort of "green, white, checkard" finish. Too many races seem to end under yellow. I hate sitting through a really good race to have it end under caution! I watched most of the races this season and I do think they are heading in the right direction.

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Pocono would be interesting I think because there's not been an Indycar race there for 23 years and setting up for the track is a compromise. It's an oval that's a bit of a road course, so I think the road course racers in the series that are not too keen on ovals would like it more.

Richmond I believe was only in the series as long as Philip Morris was a sponsor of Penske (Philip Morris is based in Richmond). I enjoyed Richmond and went to almost all the races they had there. Unfortunately, I went to the last race there where no one was capable of passing anyone else and if there's a race that was ever a crowd killer for years following it was that one.

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Richmond will not be back. Great track, well attended races, great races but NASCAR has put the muscle on Richmond to lean towards them and away from Indycar. Also, a sponsor needs to be found before anything would proceed. Loudon was a one and done and won't be back. Phoenix and MIS were strongly talked about returning but their NASCAR dates eliminate them hosting Indycar races. Gateway is essentially no more, Nashville is for sale, Kentucky is gone until 2014 at the earliest. Not many other ovals to race at.

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What you're saying here about trackside advertising "may" be correct but, that doesn't translate into paying customers in the seats. Neither I, nor anyone else I know, goes to any race to see the advertisement banners (road, street or oval). Yes, there may be more exposure for your ad banner at a street race but, how does that translate into paying fans?????? The post I responded to was about getting more fans in the stands and comparing attendance at ovals vs. street/road courses.

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If you were a company that had just enough buget to advertise at 1 race. Would you advertise at an oval race where just the paying ticket holders will see your advertising, or would you advertise at a street race? It is easier to get a sponsor for a street race. That is why there are so many of them. That is the point I was tring to make.

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But that has nothing to do with attendance.....we weren't talking about how many banners were hanging at the events. The post we were talking about stated the wish for more fans in the stands at the ovals vs. the road courses and, someone else mentioned that he didn't believe the attendance at the street/road races was much higher than the ovals...it just appears that way..

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As I read all this info it is hard for me not to tell this. And I really think this is the missing link. Being lucky enough to work on and build cars that ran in the 60's and 70's. And to me the greatest era of Indy cars. As a chief mechanic in 70's I not sure Indy car racing would ever come to this. I do not remember the total races in each type of Indy car racing for each year, to many years, but I will try. How about this to find a real Champion driver. There was 18 ovals, 5 road courses, and the best 5 mile dirt races, all with points to find a Champion. The two races I remember being sold out were both in Indianapolis. I am sure there were others. Yes sold out and both had many people after the checker flag fell went and got there tickets for next years race. Yep all in the same day or they may not have a seat for next year. No banners then. The action and hard work would have a champion from ovals, road courses and DIRT MILES. Only one champion. Yes Wide World of Sports was at most with live TV in the 60's and 70's. I remember ABC ask to bring out the dirt car and oval pavement car to put side by side to explain difference and open the show with details of both. Unreal with that type of following. The fans at both tracks were just the width of a chain link fence from us working on the cars at both tracks. I am sure there are alot of you remember the two tracks and the years this went on. Gosh I still cherish this today. Then I read Nascar dosen't want us at tracks today and I laugh. Again the 60's and 70's with USAC's STOCK CAR DIVISION on the same principal. Pavement ovals, road courses, and mile dirt ovals. All enjoying large crowds and great purses. A true Champion aqain. We had so much more to offer than NASCAR ever did. And they were scared of this. Come on guys, don't you remember? And our best daily clothes were the Mobil, or Enco free T-shirts and white or blue jean pants. Yes there are rules we can change to bring us back to that era. And yes we can talk about wheres the money. Well, we sure didn't have money then. But we had sportsmen car owners and other people who cared. The real problem today is nobody has the balls to try it like our forefathers did.

Lynn

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The sad thing is the current makeup of the fanbase for Indycars look down their noses at anything that is dirt or front engine. They feel that street races are the way of the future because they offer the party atmosphere that the new generation wants more then actually following the race and the drivers. They no longer want to see front engine openwheel cars racing at the mile tracks because that is antiquated racing and boring. They only want to see drivers from Flea D*ck, Brazil or Pigs Knuckle, Europe who have raced in minor league formula car series come to the states and race what Indycar Fanbase sees as the best series in the world. Talk is now focusing on getting someone like Kubica, Senna, Glock (second time for him) or Sutil to come race in Indycar. These drivers have all been racing in Formula 1 and either washed out or gotten hurt (Kubica) in other racing forms and aren't able to race F1 now. The current fanbase does not know or care about a Kyle Larson, or a Bryan Clauson, or Swanson, or any other driver from USAC. The fanbase now is of the mindset that only driver who come up what they feel is the right way (karts, usf200, lights) should be there.

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Not true. The problem is with the owners. They won't hire a dirt track guy because the Euro racers usually have a big check to get them a seat. The series also goes to a lot of street courses because it makes them a lot of money, which is what Randy was hired to do, get the series back to making money.

Next year Pocono is making a return and I wouldn't be surprised to see Phoenix in 2014.

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When you use the term "fanbase" you're not talking about a very large group of people....

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As seen by the ratings and the attendance at the events, you'd be correct. If you go to any Indycar event at a non oval, you'll find most people do not know or care about drivers from a dirt track. Most think they are the next Ed Carpenter (lack luster on courses turning right and left) and for the record I am a big Ed Carpenter fan becasue he may very well be the last of his kind in Indycar. Until the mindset of the fanbase is changed, the drivers will be ones from over seas and not dirt/short track drivers.

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I have to disagree with you on this one. It's not the fans. Until the car owners pull their heads out of their collective @ sses and start recruiting young American circle track talent, Indy car will go nowhere. The fans have already spoken with their feet and their wallets. Look at all of the bare aluminum you see at their events. That includes road/street courses too. The young circle track drivers of the 60's and 70's proved that they could adapt to the rear engined cars and compete with the best road racers in the world. Even Penske and Ganassi have fallen into this mindset. They put our great young American drivers in their taxi-cabs and bring in furriners to drive the Indy cars (even after Sam won the 500!!!!!)...I just don't get it!!! These guys are supposed to be businessmen and they can't figure it out!!!

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Harsh reality is that the owners aren't going to put someone in a seat without some cash. That's just how the deal works. Cars are way to expensive to destroy for someone to learn to race an Indycar.

There isn't enough ovals for an owner to take a risk on a dirt track or front engine guy, because he can go get some money from Europe, or South America, and be perfectly happy. EJ Viso is a prime example of someone that doesn't deserve to be in the series, but he has a huge sponsor that is footing the bill. Take him out of that seat, and that car probably doesn't have the funding to even exist, let alone race every week.

Only way it's going to work is if some of these guys that are running sprints and midgets do some other types of racing, road racing, sports cars, show that they can drive on the road courses, and hunt for sponsorship on those levels. Finding sponsorship is hard as it is, and believe me, I understand that, but when you start running some other series, and people start seeing a cross between the two worlds, and also see where you are trying to go, the gap becomes a bit smaller to jump.

Just my thoughts, but it's the owners, and drivers faults both. The schedule doesn't help, but it is what it is. Do you honestly think that if Nascar went to 90% road courses that it wouldn't be filled with road racing experts?

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You proved my point. The ones left in the fanbase don't care about short track drivers and the ones who do care about the short track drivers aren't fans anymore, or very very small % are and get out shouted by the larger % of the fanbase.

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WOW! " IndyCar Won't Return To Edmonton". How many towns have said this during the years. After the dirt cars were dropped from the Real National Championship. And real champions from oval, dirt and road racing determined by points from all 3. I don't remember any paying drivers for those years. Only after they dropped the dirt races from points were drivers paying for a rides. Would it be fun to go back to the real deal for a Champion? Don't forget the stands were full for all of them. The crowds wanted to watch the American drivers real bad and the rules then supported that. Yep the car owners changed racing after the road racing owners got the dirt part throwed out of the points. Any one remember doing a Indy points race at Springfield and the next day on a points race at Milwakee. That was Indy car racing at it's best. Only American drivers did both races and the crowds wanted that real bad. And fill the stands with back to back Indy car races. Awesome!

Lynn