National 410 Driver Rankings
 

Courtesy of Eric Barnhill. Go to:
http://cmpvideo2go.com/National410Rankings.html

Re: National 410 Driver Rankings
 

That's a joke, right?:rolling

Re: National 410 Driver Rankings
 

You must get 50 bonus points for having a wing on your sprinter.:rolling

Jerry

Re: National 410 Driver Rankings
 

Not sure how Rahmer has so many points for mostly staying on the porch while Meyers has just as many wins and most of them are with the World of Outlaws. I'm sorry you can't tell me the posse is better than beating Shatz, Saldana and Kinser. Cause last I checked Shatz owned the posse last year at Williams Grove.

Re: National 410 Driver Rankings
 

Eric Barnhill first posted this over at brand-x earlier this year. His system goes by how many wins you have and how many races you've run. I think there are other breakdowns like the car count at a race as well. Apparently wins on the WoO, All-Star's, USAC and in Pa. get you more points than the weekly races in Indiana.

Re: National 410 Driver Rankings
 

Can't be too serious, I didn't see Chuck Amati on the list.

Re: National 410 Driver Rankings
 

I think number of events is a bad thing to have in the calculation. I think that a UMP like points is much better for comparing a group that doesn't run together. You take the best finishes of x number of races. Then you assign a point system for sanctioned races and for weekly shows based on car count. Takes out factors like more rain outs in one region and longer seasons. Plus the guy that can't race 3 times a weekend can be involved too.

Re: National 410 Driver Rankings
 

Eric's points are calculated based on the number of times a driver races and where he finishes in those races....

Since Rahmer runs in Central PA, which can run three nights a week, he's got the most points. Whether or not he has a wing....if you look at Eric's spreadsheet, he's also got an average points per race calculation on the right side, which gives, IMO, a little better picture of who's the best in his ranking...

Re: National 410 Driver Rankings
 

Before my "joke" of a system gets put down any further, please let me explain a few things.

First, thanks Sprinter25, you are correct. My system is based off of nothing more than starts and finishes. There are no "multipliers" for car count, sanction, or "degree of difficulty". In my eyes, please remember, this comes from a guy who pretends to be a sometimes car owner, it was as hard to try to win Paragon two weeks ago as it was to try to win an All Star race this winter in Florida....trust me, I tried both, and failed miserably at both.

With that being said, Arin McIntosh received the same amount of points for winning last week as Donny Schatz did for winning at Eldora. Ironically, Danny Smith received the same number of points for winning at Moler against 13 other cars.

I have one spreadsheet, that contains two completely different Top 15 lists. The first is the points, that most apparently do not like. The second list is average points per start. I'm sure as Indiana fans, most of you will like the second list better, and in my eyes, it paints a more complete picture.

Finally, let me say this. I decided to keep track of all this nonsense this year as a way to stay attached to racing, since my budget doesn't allow me to attend many races anymore. Bruce from CMP Video enjoyed the information and asked it he could post it. There is absolutely no prizes or awards handed out at the end of year, so relax people...if you don't like how the points add up, use it for research only, or toilet paper or whatever. Believe it or not, you even have the option of not looking at it. I just thought calling it a joke was kinda harsh. It is ,afterall, it is nothing but facts...not my twisted attempt to please Rahmer. Hell, I don't even like the guy.

Eric Barnhill

Re: National 410 Driver Rankings
 

This is a time consuming endeaver by Mr Barnhill, and the way I present it, it dont do justice to the entire assembly of Number of Races complied, deduced without looking at the entire spreadsheet, which is simularular to the year ending compliation Spridge aeeembled, for which Im grateful for This Concept by Mr Barnhill. Traditional, or Wings, Each Form need each other, take away Wing Racing, There wouldnt be enough Market for manufatures. If Your Favorite Team isnt where You think it should be, You feel as if its skewed, just as with the Large contigent of 360 Racing in California, a 410 list isnt reflective of Raing in General, There would be more Golden State Drivers included. For every Ballou, Boespflug, Golobic & Sweet theres 10 More Coming, LOL.
Bruce

Re: National 410 Driver Rankings
 

I've sat back and thought about this from a scientific as opposed to fan point of view. Finishing order makes a level of data ordinal by its nature. Now we assign a point value to each finishing position, which allows us to keep a points standings and award champions. The problem with this system though is we cannot compare the value of first place. We can do so in terms of winnings, but the problem with this is a driver that won 5 $2000 to win races would be equal to a driver that one 1 $10,000 to win race. We can do something based on car counts. Its a good objective measure to base a difference of points. There is still a problem because car count alone does not indicate that the win is somehow worth more. Then if you assign more points for races with a certain sanction there is still a subjective value assigned to each series. Then there is the problem of what happens for co sanctioned shows, or a WoO race at Williams Grove. What about an MSCS field that has all of the USAC regualrs?

The system that Mr. Barnhill has put up has its flaws as well simply because some of the winged drivers get to run more than non winged. Plus USAC guys have to split time between sprints, midgets and silvercrown cars. So while it is flawed, I do believe that he does have the most objective system simply because of the sort of data we're dealing with.

Re: National 410 Driver Rankings
 

[QUOTE=ebarnhill;44997]Before my "joke" of a system gets put down any further, please let me explain a few things.


OK Eric. I'm sorry for calling your list a joke. I'm sure you have put a lot of work and thought into it and it makes sense to you. However, when you publish a list of the top 410 sprint car drivers and expect a bunch of hoosiers to buy off on a wing guy topping Stanbrough and Jones....well, you have to expect some snickering. So, I take back the joke part and will just say I disagree. I don't keep stats so I couldn't argue the point.:respect:

Re: National 410 Driver Rankings
 

Ha, no offense Al....like I said, I started doing it to occupy my mind more than to please anybody. It's also not real fair to someone like a Shuman or Hockett who fill the gaps in their schedules by winning 360 and midget races and not getting points for them.

I don't believe a person or group could ever try to rank wing and non-wing drivers together without an argument from somebody. Guess that's part of life.

Have fun
Barnhill

Re: National 410 Driver Rankings
 

So lets ask this question, Why are winged and non winged even in the same catagory?

For Rahmer to come here and race under our conditons to beat Stanbrough would be just as tough as Jon to strap on a wing and beat him there.

Chuck, not saying one's better than the other. Im clearly NW partial but like others said, Shatz virtually owned the winged world last year and is consistantly at the front not just in PA but across the nation.

Re: National 410 Driver Rankings
 

I swore off posting on IOW but I've decided to make an exception on this one. For someone with a lot of time on their hands and an exceptional excel user you might be able to come up with a points system similar to one that was used by the now defunct Shifterkart Illustrated magazine.

Way back in the day when I raced karts one of the mags ranked the top 50 guys in the country. The system assigned a base score for each race. Thus a local race was not ranked as high as a regional or national etc. There was also a multiplier for car count, another multiplier for number of drivers in the top 50 in attendance at a race, and each driver was allowed their top certain number of scores to equalize those that didnt race as much. It was a pretty neat system. If i recall it may have even had some multiplier that weighted current results over past results slightly.

Barnhill as you have already put something together, if you are bored at your top secret job and want to look into it further get ahold of Rob Howden who I think now runs Eformula Car news, and Formula Car magazine or something like that. He could probably tell you how the formula works or direct you to someone who does know. Then i would be a matter of adapting all the numbers to fit the sprint car community.

For those of you who arent familar with Ebarnhill he might be one of the hardest core racers ive met. This guy fields a car affectionally known at times as the "nuthin special" with regards to the amount of finances that can be spent. And despite having to scrape scrounge and make do Eric is doing it his way and winning more races than a lot of guys with many times more money...oh yeah and sometimes he beats them on their own scuffed tires.

Re: National 410 Driver Rankings
 

Shouldn't Rahmer be automatically docked for not having the sack to compete without a wing when he said he was going to?

Just kidding...

DM

Re: National 410 Driver Rankings
 

I'd also dock Rahmer five points for each brake checking incident he caused at Lincoln this year but I'd be worried about a negative points net result afterward. :angry-smiley-007:

+50 points for wingless action in general. An additional +20 points for any driver that also does double duty in the same night in another wingless division like Midgets or Silver Crown.

Re: National 410 Driver Rankings
 

what ever happened to this ranking deal no updates?

Re: National 410 Driver Rankings
 

Not that it really matters but i know I ran more than 6 times this year and made more than 2 features lol

Re: National 410 Driver Rankings
 

sorry everybody. As some of you know, my job took me to both Iraq and Afghanistan this year. While in Iraq, I was still able to keep up with the points, but when I deployed to Afghanistan in late July, I did not have the necessary resources to continue updating the points.

I apologize. I shouldn't have started something I couldn't finish. Take it easy.

Eric Barnhill

Re: National 410 Driver Rankings
 

are you back in the states now??? If so im glad to hear you made it back ok:checkered:

If you are still over there best of luck and take care:thumb

Re: National 410 Driver Rankings
 

I am back home in NC now. May or may not have to go back over for a couple months in the spring. I plan on attending Kansas City and Chili Bowl just to get caught up on some racing.

Barnhill