LPS track conditions
 

I read this board and try to restrain from commenting on track condition posts. But I am at the point I gotta speak up.
People on this board always post begging for tacky track conditions. They want no dust and a giant cushion. They think racing is fantastic when sprint cars can race hammer down and on the cushion. So now Lincoln Park has started prepping the track to be heavy heavy heavy. We get to the track about 4 or 5 and they are laying tons of water down. When it comes time for the sprints to pack the track, the track is almost flooded. There was standing water most the night in turns 1&2. So the sprints pack about half the track for a while and then they hot lap and tear it back up. Then the next session comes out and does the same thing. Then the support classes go pack and tear it back up again. When its time for the heats there has been one groove worked in that is raceable by all the classes. So if your a support class car and you start in the back you stay in the back. By the feature time the sprints work the track in enough to make the sprint feature good and people on this board praise the track. However the track still is not nearly worked in and the support classes get to race on a bad track.
In the heat races the track literally only had one groove that was raceable. For the features the bottom of the entire track was slime for about a groove or two, and the top of 3&4 was rough enough to bounce the front end off the ground.

My intentions of this post are not to bash LPS, but to raise awareness that there are three other classes that have to race on the track each Saturday night. I'm happy that LPS has put on great sprint car shows, but the track doesn't have to be extremely tacky and slimy to make for a good show. I understand fans don't want dust, but fans aren't the ones that have to race on the track. Tracks like tonight's tear up a lot of equipment and are not very passable for other classes than sprints. In my opinion LPS had an awesome track earlier in the year. It was smooth, slightly slick, was fast from top to bottom, and was passable in the heats. If they want to keep putting water down like they have been, than get something to pack the track good before the sprints go out, and make sure it is packed from top to bottom without much slime. Or have all the support class cars go out at one time and make laps until the track is packed solid. I wouldn't mind one bit if I had to go out and pack the track, because I know it's going to make the racing better early in the night. I remember they over watered the track for the Patriot modified race a couple years ago, and they sent all the cars on the track at once. We were three wide all the way around the track. But in 15 minutes the track was great. They ran three wide for the lead almost half the feature, and it was a great show.
I just hope LPS can get their track prep right before its too late. They messed up the track for the first Thursday night deal with super stocks when they had 20 cars and next week we only had 10. And they wayyyy over watered it for the summer-nationals race, and I bet a lot of the new mod guys they got will not be coming back. Car counts are dropping at LPS in the support classes because guys don't like running a track they cant pass on. It kills the entire night when you start in the back of a heat and the tracks one lane. Hopefully tonight was enough of an eye opener to prove something needs to change. Love supporting LPS, but they have to be willing to provide a track that is good for ALL classes, not just the sprints.

P.S. if you weren't racing a car tonight don't say the track was great. Race tracks look a lot different when your out there than when you are in the stands. It usually looks great in the stands, but you get out there and its a lot different looking. This goes for all tracks not just LPS.

Hotshoe I totally agree. I'm not sure why we even run heat races anymore. All it is whoever makes it to turn 1 wins and everyone else just jumps n line follows the leader. You have to remember a lot of these people on this board have no dogs in this fight. They dont have to pay for torn racecars at the end of the night. And when it as tacky as its been you tear a lot more cars up. Tacky tracks don't show driving skills, slick tracks do as the case to night.

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Re: LPS track conditions
 

If you don't want to race for spectators, I suggest bying a sportscar, joining a club, and have the club rent someplace like Putnam Park. You will never have to worry about paying spectators. It is all about the competitors. Lincoln Park has a large grandstand. I am sure part of the business plan is to fill it up as much as possible. Keeping customers happy, gives you a place to race. Just as spectators have lots of options, so do you. Do what makes you happy.

Re: LPS track conditions
 

When there is no passing in the heats how is that fun to watch?

Re: LPS track conditions
 

When you car counts start dropping because of track conditions, your fan base will too. It is not fun to go to a track to watch a train run in circles. It is hard enough to bring in fans with the way the economy is, but if you can not prep the track to be a good track top to bottom all night you will start losing cars then the stands will start becoming empty. This has happened all over the country over the years. I understand it cost a lot of money to promote a track but when to cant get cars the fans are not interested.

Re: LPS track conditions
 

Originally Posted by 31bro:
When there is no passing in the heats how is that fun to watch?

so why not run the whole track in from top to bottom in hot laps all the drivers jump to the top and go, they should make all drivers pack the track from top to bottom or start on tail of heat but that is jmo

Re: LPS track conditions
 

its stupid to make the drivers to pack the track when some racin fuel is 9bucks a gallon, all because they want to overwater it.

It is hard to pack it top to bottom when on the bottom is standing in inches of water. They will be spending more time pulling people out. Why not put a little water on it and Sheeps foot it and add more water until you get a good smooth surface with good moisture I believe almost all the track I have been to there is not a place on the track before the heats that you can bring in boggers to have a pre race show.

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Re: LPS track conditions
 

Part of keeping the spectators happy is keeping the pits full of cars. Lest we forget the Hopton years followed by everybodys favorite D-bag Dave Allison. Don't for one minute think I'm comparing Joe to these guys, but their past history proves crappy tracks run racecar drivers and owners off and when they leave fans leave. Track prep is a fine line to walk, majority of drivers will tell you a little dust ok and slick is even better, and every fan wants to see passing and lots of it from the heats to the feature.

About like watch late models and wing sprints no passing..cannot please every driver yes it was a little slimy and maybe they should have scraped the bottom like they would have for the late models..jmo

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---------- Post added at 12:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:59 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Hotshoe65s:
I read this board and try to restrain from commenting on track condition posts. But I am at the point I gotta speak up.
People on this board always post begging for tacky track conditions. They want no dust and a giant cushion. They think racing is fantastic when sprint cars can race hammer down and on the cushion. So now Lincoln Park has started prepping the track to be heavy heavy heavy. We get to the track about 4 or 5 and they are laying tons of water down. When it comes time for the sprints to pack the track, the track is almost flooded. There was standing water most the night in turns 1&2. So the sprints pack about half the track for a while and then they hot lap and tear it back up. Then the next session comes out and does the same thing. Then the support classes go pack and tear it back up again. When its time for the heats there has been one groove worked in that is raceable by all the classes. So if your a support class car and you start in the back you stay in the back. By the feature time the sprints work the track in enough to make the sprint feature good and people on this board praise the track. However the track still is not nearly worked in and the support classes get to race on a bad track.
In the heat races the track literally only had one groove that was raceable. For the features the bottom of the entire track was slime for about a groove or two, and the top of 3&4 was rough enough to bounce the front end off the ground.

My intentions of this post are not to bash LPS, but to raise awareness that there are three other classes that have to race on the track each Saturday night. I'm happy that LPS has put on great sprint car shows, but the track doesn't have to be extremely tacky and slimy to make for a good show. I understand fans don't want dust, but fans aren't the ones that have to race on the track. Tracks like tonight's tear up a lot of equipment and are not very passable for other classes than sprints. In my opinion LPS had an awesome track earlier in the year. It was smooth, slightly slick, was fast from top to bottom, and was passable in the heats. If they want to keep putting water down like they have been, than get something to pack the track good before the sprints go out, and make sure it is packed from top to bottom without much slime. Or have all the support class cars go out at one time and make laps until the track is packed solid. I wouldn't mind one bit if I had to go out and pack the track, because I know it's going to make the racing better early in the night. I remember they over watered the track for the Patriot modified race a couple years ago, and they sent all the cars on the track at once. We were three wide all the way around the track. But in 15 minutes the track was great. They ran three wide for the lead almost half the feature, and it was a great show.
I just hope LPS can get their track prep right before its too late. They messed up the track for the first Thursday night deal with super stocks when they had 20 cars and next week we only had 10. And they wayyyy over watered it for the summer-nationals race, and I bet a lot of the new mod guys they got will not be coming back. Car counts are dropping at LPS in the support classes because guys don't like running a track they cant pass on. It kills the entire night when you start in the back of a heat and the tracks one lane. Hopefully tonight was enough of an eye opener to prove something needs to change. Love supporting LPS, but they have to be willing to provide a track that is good for ALL classes, not just the sprints.

P.S. if you weren't racing a car tonight don't say the track was great. Race tracks look a lot different when your out there than when you are in the stands. It usually looks great in the stands, but you get out there and its a lot different looking. This goes for all tracks not just LPS.

Got way over watered for summer nationals but according to track radio traffic ump officals called for more water

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Re: LPS track conditions
 

I'm not sure what all the tracks paid Sprints Saturday night. LPS paid $2,000 $225.00 to start. (Didn't draw anymore cars) Paragon paid 1,400 to win and had the best car count. I haven't heard anyone talking about paragons track conditions on this site. Whats up with that...

Originally Posted by Don 65s:
I'm not sure what all the tracks paid Sprints Saturday night. LPS paid $2,000 $225.00 to start. (Didn't draw anymore cars) Paragon paid 1,400 to win and had the best car count. I haven't heard anyone talking about paragons track conditions on this site. Whats up with that...

Tri state paid 3 grand only had 16. Think lot people might be saving their stuff sprinweek

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Re: LPS track conditions
 

Originally Posted by Wallsracing:
Tri state paid 3 grand only had 16. Think lot people might be saving their stuff sprinweek

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Tri-State paid $2500.

Re: LPS track conditions
 

Not sure what Waynesfield paid but 23 sprinters 6/30

Re: LPS track conditions
 

Where I was raised, we always had the cars pack the track. When I started racing (stock cars) I always enjoyed packing the track because it let me transtion from a busy week of working on the car to getting ready for the night. For the more experience drivers, they would let their pit crew guys pack the track. It is amazing the amount of crap a pit crew guy will put up with just for a chance to go pack the track.

I'll admit that the track was not the greatest and not real racey, still really greasy at the end of the feature, and there was definately things that could have been done better in my eyes, but that was one bad track out of what the last 10 races?

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Maybe some of you should read the thread "i'm sorry". I for one applaud Joe Spiker for all he has done for LPS. I have been a fan, driver, crew chief, crew, car owner and truck driver. I can promise you , you don't want a repeat of 07 or 08. The tracks were so rough I broke my tailbone with out ever crashing. Keep doin what your doin, you have my support.

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Re: LPS track conditions
 

Originally Posted by Hotshoe65s:
I read this board and try to restrain from commenting on track condition posts. But I am at the point I gotta speak up.

Plus a significant rant in between

P.S. if you weren't racing a car tonight don't say the track was great. Race tracks look a lot different when your out there than when you are in the stands. It usually looks great in the stands, but you get out there and its a lot different looking. This goes for all tracks not just LPS.

If you regularly read this board, you surely must realize it is an OPEN WHEEL board. Nothing prohibits you from posting but you'd have to agree that the major interest here is OPEN WHEEL racing. I suppose you can find some sympathy but you certainly aren't going to find a solution, or for that matter much agreement for setting up a track more suitable to support classes at the expense of the main attraction. You need to be talking to the track management rather than the patrons. No doubt some of our resident EOEs (Experts on Everything) can advise management on the track preparation procedures that will make everyone happy right down to the exact gallon of water and the precise moment it must be applied but none of us are going to be out there doing track prep (thats probably a good thing). I would say this in deference to your command...I thought the track was great(for what I came for...the sprint car feature) and I wasn't driving a car, but I and several hundred other sprint car fans bought the vast majority of tickets sold. You surely don't have to guess what happens if sprint car fans quit coming....well, you won't have to worry about what the track is set up for.
But, isn't that part of the challenge...to set your car up to existing track conditions? :deadhorse:

Re: LPS track conditions
 

But, isn't that part of the challenge...to set your car up to existing track conditions?


BINGO! We have a winner!

Bob

Can't set a sprint car up to run in a bowl of soup!

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Al:
All the support classes run an 8inch tire that can not run in the slime and crap that was on the entire bottom of the track.
And as for you saying I need to talk to track management about how I and all the other support classes feel about track conditions, it doesn't do any good because all track management cares about is what sprint car fans think and what they think on this site. They read this forum and base everything off what's said on here. So I thought Id bring my opinion to their attention.
They cater to sprint cars so much it is unbelievable. The track might be good for the 20 sprints, but it's junk for the other 60 guys that wanted to support joe. But yet the track management doesnt seem to care. As long as the sprints are good that's all they care about.

Maybe you can see my frustration or maybe you can't. But myself and the people that help me spend well over 10 hours a week preparing the car to go support joe. And then we get pissed on cause sprint fans want a hammer down track. And my car along with about all the other support class cars get destroyed. I have at least 8 hours worth of body work to do because the track was so terrible in the heats that the guy trying to pass me got in the slime and then destroyed the left side of my car.

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---------- Post added at 3:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 2:54 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Racer12:
But, isn't that part of the challenge...to set your car up to existing track conditions?


BINGO! We have a winner!

Bob

Buy yourself a race car that runs an 8 inch tire and get it to work in the slime, and then come say it's part of the challenge. And then you can pay for all the bent crap and tore up body. I've been racing at Lps for the last 5 years and have dozens of wins, I think my team can set a car up for various track conditions, but lately it's been impossible to pass and race on. I know LPS can prep the track to be right, but the persistent complaining by sprint car fans for a heavy track has brainwashed the track management. If you want a heavy track that's cool, but work the track in. Seems like a no brainer, but they keep doing it week after week. And they seem oblivious to what everyone but sprint car people think.

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Re: LPS track conditions
 

Originally Posted by jason_rc_racing:
Can't set a sprint car up to run in a bowl of soup!

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Well then you haven't heard much or saw much of Ascot Park then have you?

Bob

Lol ok guess not. The bottom row pushed up into the top row on the start took 3 attempts and 6 cars with damage and or flat tires. If you like that then good for you, but I don't. IMO Lps put race car drivers in a dangerous position last night by throwing the green flag before the track was fit to race on. Once again just my opinion.

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[QUOTE=Don 65s;288732]I'm not sure what all the tracks paid Sprints Saturday night. LPS paid $2,000 $225.00 to start. (Didn't draw anymore cars) Paragon paid 1,400 to win and had the best car count. I haven't heard anyone talking about paragons track conditions on this site. Whats up with that...[/QUOT

GREAT POINT......!!!

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[quote=Motormasher;288795]

Originally Posted by Don 65s:
I'm not sure what all the tracks paid Sprints Saturday night. LPS paid $2,000 $225.00 to start. (Didn't draw anymore cars) Paragon paid 1,400 to win and had the best car count. I haven't heard anyone talking about paragons track conditions on this site. Whats up with that...[/QUOT

GREAT POINT......!!!

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Nothing to complain about when its hard black slick all the time. They only race half that track they let off at flagstand and idle through corners

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Re: LPS track conditions
 

Originally Posted by Don 65s:
I'm not sure what all the tracks paid Sprints Saturday night. LPS paid $2,000 $225.00 to start. (Didn't draw anymore cars) Paragon paid 1,400 to win and had the best car count. I haven't heard anyone talking about paragons track conditions on this site. Whats up with that...

I can tell you from experience, I have raced at both LPS and Paragon this year. Paragon had a good track Saturday and in my opinion has done a great job all year with track prep and has had probably the best track of the 2 on a consistent basis. LPS has done a great job as well trying to prep their track. They have had a couple of slick dusty track but for the most part they have had decent tracks when I have been there.

What everyone needs to remember is that it has been dry and hot around here for months and that makes it hard to keep water in a track. This is making it more time consuming and creating a lot more work than usual to operate a dirt track(and if you haven't realized is a lot of work when conditions are good).

As far as slimy parts on a track that is a result of us guys in the sprint cars not running the track in from top to bottom. We tend to have a habit of rolling around the middle to the top of the track and not getting into the slop at the bottom. The slim on the bottom is a result of water running down the track as it is being watered not always a result of over watering. If the track official don't get on the track and force the guys working the track in to the bottom then it will not get worked in.

Originally Posted by hairracer44:
I can tell you from experience, I have raced at both LPS and Paragon this year. Paragon had a good track Saturday and in my opinion has done a great job all year with track prep and has had probably the best track of the 2 on a consistent basis. LPS has done a great job as well trying to prep their track. They have had a couple of slick dusty track but for the most part they have had decent tracks when I have been there.

What everyone needs to remember is that it has been dry and hot around here for months and that makes it hard to keep water in a track. This is making it more time consuming and creating a lot more work than usual to operate a dirt track(and if you haven't realized is a lot of work when conditions are good).

As far as slimy parts on a track that is a result of us guys in the sprint cars not running the track in from top to bottom. We tend to have a habit of rolling around the middle to the top of the track and not getting into the slop at the bottom. The slim on the bottom is a result of water running down the track as it is being watered not always a result of over watering. If the track official don't get on the track and force the guys working the track in to the bottom then it will not get worked in.

They did run in it. the track officials were on the track for a good 25 min or so when the cars wheel packed then they pulled the sprint cars and sent the mods out to wheel pack then the sprint cars hot lapped and before the feature they were back out there and made them run the bottom for probably another 5 to 10 mins before the a started then while they were waiting on the cars to change the flat tires they made them run the bottom. It was just too wet!

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Re: LPS track conditions
 

This is why IMO we need to find a way to bring weekly midget racing to sprint car tracks in Indiana. How awesome for open wheel fans would it be to show up at the track and watch a show with a line up like: Non Wing Sprints, Midgets, and some sort of micro/mini sprint class? They do it at the doorbanger tracks. Do you ever see a sprint class mixed in at a late model/modified track on a regular basis? I guess I can only dream!:17:

This way you dont have the stock car guys mad at the sprint guys and the sprint guys mad at the stock car guys over who gets catered to the most.

From what I have seen on Jackslash, Joe has done a FANTASTIC job this year with the track. I am dying to get up there and catch a race sometime in person!

Re: LPS track conditions
 

I too support Joe and his endevures 100%, I've even donated my time to help at the track. I know most on this board can't say that. All this being said WE as paying customers have the wright to critize the product we are paying for. Besides when the temps go back down the bitchin will slow down cause everybody will be off the internet and out of the ac.

Re: LPS track conditions
 

Originally Posted by K-Dawg30:
This is why IMO we need to find a way to bring weekly midget racing to sprint car tracks in Indiana. How awesome for open wheel fans would it be to show up at the track and watch a show with a line up like: Non Wing Sprints, Midgets, and some sort of micro/mini sprint class? They do it at the doorbanger tracks. Do you ever see a sprint class mixed in at a late model/modified track on a regular basis? I guess I can only dream!:17:

This way you dont have the stock car guys mad at the sprint guys and the sprint guys mad at the stock car guys over who gets catered to the most.

From what I have seen on Jackslash, Joe has done a FANTASTIC job this year with the track. I am dying to get up there and catch a race sometime in person!

I think that would be Great. (Sprints & midgets) Maybe they should do it on Thursday nights and when they get the stands the rest of the way full move it to Saturday nights. The Sprint cars (fans also) have done a great job supporting LPS on Thursday nights. ....Im sure Paragon wouldn't mind if LPS drops the support classes. They are already getting more of the sprints. Add the support classes from LPS and Keith would be pretty happy. I don't think LPS will have to worry about about making most of the support classes happy this coming weekend. A lot are going to Brownstown.

Re: LPS track conditions
 

Originally Posted by don 65s:
i think that would be great. (sprints & midgets) maybe they should do it on thursday nights and when they get the stands the rest of the way full move it to saturday nights. The sprint cars (fans also) have done a great job supporting lps on thursday nights. ....im sure paragon wouldn't mind if lps drops the support classes. They are already getting more of the sprints. Add the support classes from lps and keith would be pretty happy. I don't think lps will have to worry about about making most of the support classes happy this coming weekend. A lot are going to brownstown.

don,with all respect you know that is a lot of bull.you got guys & gals that can just can barely afford to get to lps much less tow all the way to brownstown.if so good luck

Re: LPS track conditions
 

Originally Posted by SHORTBUS:
don,with all respect you know that is a lot of bull.you got guys & gals that can just can barely afford to get to lps much less tow all the way to brownstown.if so good luck

Bill, plans are going to Bloomington on Friday. If all goes well we are going to brownstown on saturday.
Sportsman cars that i think will be at brownstown that was at lps (LPS had 19) 13, 1c ,1g 65s, 0cooper that's 5 Im pretty sure more. lps might get 12 to 15
Mods 78c, 7lex, 27a 10ns 2brock d48 32 thats 7 (31 Craig junk 5L might be hurt pretty bad.) maybe more (LPS had 19) = 10 cars Its not had to do the math.
With the way the track was and the payout i don't think they will be at LPS. Brownstown pays the same for both classes. $600.00 to win

Re: LPS track conditions
 

first couple of nights had smooth black slick conditions and alot of 3 and 4 wide racing, slide jobs everywhere and IMO was great racing in all classes. It was dusty but it is a dirt track and if people dont like the dust they need to go to a pavement race to stay clean. When its all mudded up like it has been the last couple of races there is alot more cars torn up and the track gets rough and the tempers start then people complain and fight. I support Joe and crew 100% but at this time I must honestly say I cant see myself, along with others I'm sure, to take my car there and race in slime/mud and just follow the leader....done that many times and its not fun and hard on equipment. When its not fun then the drivers and fans will not go and maybe even try someplace new and LPS has a super set up as far as location and facilities which makes it even more of a shame. We all know LPS cant please everyone....and it appears that MOST sprints ( and fans ) want a foot cushion that is hammer down while others just want a surface that can be passed on. Just because mods, super stocks, and bombers are a " support class " doesnt mean guys and gals dont put alot of money, sweat, and tears into their equipment as a main class does. From a fan perspective I didnt care for lastnights surface due to lack of passing in all heats and the feature for the support classes....JMO on the entire situation.

Originally Posted by dirtmod15:
first couple of nights had smooth black slick conditions and alot of 3 and 4 wide racing, slide jobs everywhere and IMO was great racing in all classes. It was dusty but it is a dirt track and if people dont like the dust they need to go to a pavement race to stay clean. When its all mudded up like it has been the last couple of races there is alot more cars torn up and the track gets rough and the tempers start then people complain and fight. I support Joe and crew 100% but at this time I must honestly say I cant see myself, along with others I'm sure, to take my car there and race in slime/mud and just follow the leader....done that many times and its not fun and hard on equipment. When its not fun then the drivers and fans will not go and maybe even try someplace new and LPS has a super set up as far as location and facilities which makes it even more of a shame. We all know LPS cant please everyone....and it appears that MOST sprints ( and fans ) want a foot cushion that is hammer down while others just want a surface that can be passed on. Just because mods, super stocks, and bombers are a " support class " doesnt mean guys and gals dont put alot of money, sweat, and tears into their equipment as a main class does. From a fan perspective I didnt care for lastnights surface due to lack of passing in all heats and the feature for the support classes....JMO on the entire situation.

Very well said

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Re: LPS track conditions
 

I've learned only one thing on this thread, you can't make everybody happy.:7:

Re: LPS track conditions
 

It's pretty bad when the only way to have good racing is for it to be dry slick. This goes for sprint cars too. Tacky and smooth leads to bad racing. Tacky and a little rough or dry slick leads to good racing. I prefer to watch tacky and a little rough but not so rough it tears up the cars. A perfect example is the recent USAC sprint races in Wisconsin. Wilmot was tacky and had a few ruts and from what I heard the racing was great. I was at Sun Prairie the next night where it was tacky and smooth and the racing pretty much sucked, hardly any passing. If i had a track I would mix it up so it's not always the same but no matter how you do it someone won't like it.

Re: LPS track conditions
 

I've enjoyed dirt raceing all my life, more years than I want to admit. Ever since the beggining tracks have gone from one extreme to another during a race. Water it down, throw the mud off, run till it's dust, repeat. Why hasn't some rocket scientist ( not me for sure) come up with a system of ,underground high pressure water lines, combinded with underground ventilation lines, that can maintain a consistant moisture throughout the whole event, that will accomodate all classes, and be repeatable week after week.

There's got to be a better way than just watering it down and hope it holds. Maybe it's the expense, maybe it's impossible, I don't know, but I would hate to see my favorite sport die off.