Why are there higher paying late model races?
 

Seems everytime I look at racing news I see big money dirt late model races, 20k, 30k, 50k to win? Just seems like there are alot bigger money late model than sprint races. Why is that? I know there are a few big sprint races but seems to me there are alot more big money late model races thru out the year. just wondering? Thanks

They also have a lot higher car counts. I know I've seen car counts at eldora at well over a hundred. Can you imagine over a hundred non wing sprinters enter? It would be epic.

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It was at the Mopar Million for sure! Almost 150! Late Models are actually more expensive to run than Sprint Cars and many parts of the South and other areas are more into the big name Late Model drivers and don't even care about Sprint Cars. It's a shame, but true, unfortunately!

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There's a number of reasons. They do have slightly higher pit pass prices, I believe most events have entry fees and most events are multi-day races. Another reason, which has been beaten to death on this board several times, is exclusivity. Your not going to see Moyer, Bloomquist, O'Neal, Owens etc. at your local track racing for "peanuts". Some people call it a double-edged sword, some people say "****** if you do, ****** if you don't". I like to consider it a snowball effect, and dirt late model guys have been playing their cards right for decades now, and have built their sport in to a massive snowball, whereas non-wing sprint cars have stayed pretty flatline. But, I think the main reason is, and best place to get the snowball rolling, the fans SHOW UP, bottom line! The more fans(that also buy the ***** out of merchandise), the higher the purse, the more elite teams show up.

Jake

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Re: Why are there higher paying late model races?
 

Sprint car are too split between winged and non winged and engine size. While late models are basically all running very similar rules. They might have some different tire rules for different series, but that's about it. So when you have a big sprint car race its either basically going to draw winged cars or nonwinged cars and fans of each of those types. I think you can count on one hand the number of drivers that cross over very much between the two. Even when Eldora put on the Million for sprints they didn't even get all of the biggest winged guys. When somebody puts on a big late model show there is a lot larger base of fans and cars that will support those races.

Re: Why are there higher paying late model races?
 

I've been saying for years the sprint car world could learn alot from the Late Model's....

Late Model fans are not afraid to pay the price for a 20, 30 or $50,000 to win show. This board would blow up, ( or stay home and wait for updates), if they had to pay 45$-55$ a ticket for a big Non-Wing show.


The Late Model's' bigger shows are Multi day shows. Most are run like the 4 Crown used to be run. Qualifiying one night, feature the next. Extra revenue towards the big race. But the kicker is, I've seen them run non-qualifier features that pay 3 or 4 thousand to win, with a decent payout back through. So if you run into trouble the first or second day, you know you have a shot at taking home a couple grand.

Delaware restarts, keeps things interesting. A yellow don't usually kill the action. The Non Wingers think there would be to much carnage !!! The Outlaw Sprints even started doing this??? I think?????

Infield reporter, interviews the heat winners as they cross the scales. At least I know Lernerville does/did.

And they have one of the best announcers in the game to do Driver intro's on frontstretch before the Feature. Adds alittle excitment !!!

Most driver's have nick names !!!

During the afternoon of the last night they might have a horseshoe tournament or a cornhole tournament somewhere in the parkinglot, where one of the driver's teams up with a fan and plays whatever the tournament is. Today A guy I work with won a cornhole tournament at the Fire Cracker 100 at Lernerville, teamed with "Big Brother" Dan Stone. Or they have a band or bikini contest. Somethings going on somewhere.

They just know how to make a "SHOW/EVENT/PARTY out of whatever race their at.

AWWWW....And just a little FYI, they don't hustle ya in and hustle ya out. The SHOW might not be over til midnight or 1am....Dang, I know....:39:

Re: Why are there higher paying late model races?
 

Late Models market their product! Late Models run for huge money!
WOO markets its product! WOO run for huge money!!
When organizations are managed by intelligent individuals they prosper! There must be good leadership and good marketing people in these organizations? While some organizations are growing (MSR,POWER-I), others seem to be going backwards. It all comes down to leadership, the powers in LM,WOO, MSR, Power-I, ARCA, all seem to be growing their product, they have TV, they have growing or steady car counts. When these organizations make changes they do so with the car owners input, and the betterment of their product is the priority!

Also, there seems to be a loyalty between the successful sanctioning bodies and their customers, some sponsors have been a part of certain groups for a long time. Again, that is marketing, they do not have a slam, bang, got your money attitude, or, these long term deals would not be in place. Good leadership does not lose 50%,60%, and in some cases 70% of their car owners.

Years ago a bunch of racers got together,( and with a man and a station wagon), there where no big names at the time, just a group of racers and Ted Johnson, they now race for a living, a real nice living! The LM's put a similar situation to work a few years back and, they race for a living, a real nice living!

Where does the MSR series go, or where is it going, are they the next success story? MSR has a TV deal, races at some of the best tracks in the country, has a growing purse structure, and, they are doing this with a pavement sprint car, the same kind of car that 2 other organizations have done away with! POWER-I averages 35+ cars, when other organizations are struggling to have a full feature (let alone full heats and a Semi).

LEADERSHIP, good for those that are successful, car owners, drivers, crews, fan, ect... be thankful for what you have..... for those of you in a less than stellar situation, why are you there?

Re: Why are there higher paying late model races?
 

Late models are heading for trouble. In the south they are rapidly becoming extinct and everyone is going to crate late models. The late model guys are the biggest whiners on the planet. They race for more money than anyone and they want to qualify and run a feature, nothing more in the south. There is a reason we drive through 4 states or more to see guys who want to race. I do have to give credit to the cats running the Summer Nationals. As far as car count there have been some high paying races this year that didn't draw 20 cars. I will take 24 good open wheels anytime anymore.

With tracks that don't run late models on a weekly basis will have low car counts. Fact being no where to pull them from. Next problem is that lower budget teams can't afford to run with the big guys so tracks that do run them weekly stay home. Take a family of 4 at 20 to get in that 80 plus gas food and fans cant afford that with this economy. Then say a tracks runs a show on weekday then try run there normal night and lose money. Your looking at 80-90 grand for best of best late model pushing 950hp. Minimum start money for feature in summer nationals is 500.

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Re: Why are there higher paying late model races?
 

They raced late models here till last year, they priced themselves out of the class. I think four were running last year. They never made sense to me, for less money I'd be in a big block modified. Just be happy you guys have nonwing 410's.

Re: Why are there higher paying late model races?
 

I've seen as many as 227 late models for the WORLD 100.

Re: Why are there higher paying late model races?
 

You can basically find wingless sprints in Indiana and California. Late Models are scattered throughout the country and there are lots of them.

Re: Why are there higher paying late model races?
 

Having Forrest Lucas around to support you can't hurt.

Re: Why are there higher paying late model races?
 

Wasn't the 1st place he stopped, but I bet he is glad he decided not to give some other club something like $350,000 and then wonder where it was used. :31::D:5::5::5::3:

Re: Why are there higher paying late model races?
 

Growing up as a big late model fan in the middle of Indiana I have wondered the same thing. After a lot of thought it comes down to many of the reasons already listed. But some other things I noticed different is the atmosphere at a late model race. Late model fans are really into it, it seems like. They scream and holler for or against drivers, and they are willing to travel farther to see a big race. One big thing I have always wondered is why big named sprint car guys don't have souvenir trailers. Most your big LM guys have a trailer that tours with them and they bank a lot of money that way. I know I read somewhere that Bloomquist sells about a million a year in souvenirs.

Back to the subject of a big sprint race. I don't understand why it couldn't happen and be successful. But I only see it being successful under a few circumstances.

1. Needs to pay at least $20,000 or more to win.
2. Needs to have a pay structure to entice mid pack cars to attend. Such as at least $750 to start. And pay like $200 to start the Bmain with the first guy not to transfer getting $700 or so. Then pay the cmain a decent amount. Things like this will get guys that know they cant win or cant make the show to show up anyways.
3. It would have to be at the end of the year. Late October or early November. This would be late enough that sprints wouldn't have many racing alternatives.
4. Would have to be an Indiana track with large seating, pit, parking, and camping capacity.
5. Would have to be a two day show. Hot laps and qualifying on Friday. Races on Saturday. (example: World 100 or Dream). And do an invert wheel after qualifying like they do for the dream. It adds a little curveball to the drivers and makes racing more interesting. Plus it doesnt let drivers sandbag in qualifying cause they dont know what the invert will be for the heats.
6.Needs to be a 100 lap race. Have a caution at 50 for fuel and tires. Every major race or crown jewel in the late models is usually 100 laps.
7.The race needs a catchy, yet serious name. i.e. world 100, the Dream, North/South 100, Dirt Track World Championships, Kings Royal, Knoxville Nationals. This makes the race catch on with fans and in time will make it into a household name (at least within our own little world).
8.Unfortunately with big pay comes a big price tag. So tickets would have to be expensive. Prolly $45 or $50 for a two day ticket. And $50 or $60 for a two day pit pass.
9. This one will be loved by everyone on here lol, but it shouldn't have any support classes. For sprints I guess midgets would work in nicely, but sprints alone should be enough.
10. Lastly but most importantly, the promoter would have to advertise extremely well. They would have to reach out to the sprints across the country to draw all the cars and fans they can. There just arent enough non-wing cars in the midwest to make a big show work. So they would have to come from across the country.

That's my situation in which I think it would be plausible. But a promoter has to strongly believe that an event of this magnitude would work before it ever becomes reality.

Re: Why are there higher paying late model races?
 

The biggest reasons why there are more big paying late model races than sprint car races:

1) As it was mentioned before, in order to get all the top names in late model racing, you need to pay a bit more as there are multiple sanctions and frankly guys like Bloomquist have been really smart at not racing for less money.

2) I actually think the WoO sprint car series works against having shows that pay more than the normal 10k to win purse as your guaranteed of getting their drivers to your track whether you pay the minimum or pay more. Unless a promoter thinks a higher purse will draw more people, it doesn't make a ton of sense to pay more for the same drivers.

Re: Why are there higher paying late model races?
 

And this past year they didn't even have enough to run a hooligan Friday night. Everybody went to the heat races.

Fine by me, beer was just as cold either way.

Late models are late models all across the country except where they run crate models. The difference is all of them stopped running for anything less than 3 or 4 thousand to win. Notice there really isn't to many weekly tracks? It's all big money stuff, and special shows. There are sprint car tracks all over the country that run weekly for much less, but it's also a lot cheaper at the gate, and at the pit gate.

Re: Why are there higher paying late model races?
 

Why do late models get the bigger races, plain and simple, they get more cars and fans. Look how accesable the late model stuff is. You can find 1 or 2 races on TV each week. You go to a big race, several trailers selling murchandise. Easy to follow, .... no matter who these guys run for, there numbers stay the same. Scott Bloomquist #0, Don Oneil #71, Earl Person #44 exctra. Also when these guys venture out into something else, they run there number. When Scott Bloomquist runs a modified, it has the 0 on it. Thats not the case with open wheel guys. Just look at the 4 crown. A guy might run the #17 midget, the #58 sprint car, and the #34 silver crown car. Or he might run the #20 car when he is not running usac, but when he goes to a usac race he is in the 9 car. Open wheel is based on name loyalty. Unfortunatlly there are not many open wheel tracks or series that invest into creating that loyalty. When the casual fan shows up to the track, and has no clue who is driving any of the cars, how is the track or series going to ever build anything? Who wants to buy a t-shirt of there favorite driver when they do not see him race the car on the shirt? The WoO is the only open wheel organization who has built national fan loyalty. That is why they will always have the biggest open wheel races and will always bring in many more fans.

Re: Why are there higher paying late model races?
 

Re: Why are there higher paying late model races?
 

Re: Why are there higher paying late model races?
 

I don't know about that Jim, I hang with "BOTH" crowds....;)

Re: Why are there higher paying late model races?
 

This society won't tolerate half-naked women anymore.I,for one still have that appreciation!!!!! Political correctness is killing us.:32:

Re: Why are there higher paying late model races?
 

Yeah me too, guess jim dont fit in either group:8::10:

**** Bubba!! for once I've been left speechless lol...I'll have to pretend the guy at the midget week race at Bloomington I seen with no teeth and a wife that looked like she belonged on "Cops" was a figment of my imagination. Sophistication at it's finest!

seriously though, why would a promoter take a chance on a huge huge race when he can usually get the same cast of characters for a "decent" paying race. if I'm a promoter and I can get stanbrough, clauson, jones, short...etc for a show that pays 2-3k to win rather than 10,000 to win, I think I'll be taking the safest route in the checkbook.

with late models, guys that run both traveling series (Lucas oil, WoO) won't run anywhere else that pays less than $7,000 to win unless it's right in their backyard. look at Kent Robinson from Bloomington, he runs with the WoO and will run a race at Florence or brownstown because it's right here in his backyard, but he's sticking to races that pay $7,000 to win or more

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Re: Why are there higher paying late model races?
 

Agree with alot of everything else being said. I am a big fan of any dirt racing, love late models and love sprint cars, winged and non wing, but that is just it, sprint cars arer winged and non winged which is basically two different kinds of cars so that has split up the cars and split up most of the people. Late Model car counts are declining some because of the Crate option which has eliminated some of the mid to lower level teams. Promoters take less of a gamble on a big late model show because regardless of when you have it you are guaranteed a solid car count because there are so many of them. A big sprint car show has to draw either the outlaws guys or USAC drivers or you are not going to get more than the same guys that always show up at your track, which basically makes it a normal show which wont draw any fans other than the ones that are already there. Non wing sprint car racing is great in Indiana and California and but very few cars anywhere else. and it will never get better until USAC changes some things, and we all know that probably wont happen.

Re: Why are there higher paying late model races?
 

Late Models don't run 6 different tracks on the same night, plus Late Model teams don't support a cut-throat track or series.

Re: Why are there higher paying late model races?
 

LM's incur escalated tire costs and major dues levy to the National Taxicab Assn.