USAC Silver Crown Series...thoughts?
 

I attended the Hoosier Hundred last friday and not a bit to my surprise, it was a joke. Less than 10 of the 22 cars that were in attendance even finished the race. Walking through the pits, cars sounded horrible and were running even worse. After qualifying i heard of numerous cars being over 260 degrees, including some of the best racecars in this series. There has to be a point when everyone who is upset gets together and makes a stand. USAC has been around for ages, and yes they have put on some great events in the past, and had many a great drivers and teams come up through their ranks, but there has to be a change. The attendance was absolutely pathetic. The grandstands were no where near full and i have to believe Bob Sargent lost upward of $10,000. The car count was unbelievable. 22 cars. I could start naming off cars and go for an hour that are parked in garages due to USAC's changes in rules and loss of interest in the series. I heard the other day and i can't be quoted on this, but supposedly Bobby Santos said there was no way anyone could compete against the Toyotas. He wasn't even bearing down on his car at ORP.

So what you might ask will be the outcome unless something is done? An American racing tradition of the past. ...but there is something that can be done.

I'm asking all of you upset about the changes in the USAC Traxxas Silver Crown series to Ignite ethanol, the low car and attendance counts, or just feel that you should speak your mind. This is a free country and i'll be d**ned if there isn't an amendment about freedom of speech and freedom of choice. I'm smart enough to say if there isn't changes made maybe teams will start sitting out shows and boycotting USAC and starting a new Silver Crown series. It's time to put our feet down.

I would like to either set up an open forum for your opinions and statements or bring our voices together to try and get some resolution to what has become. I want to hear your opinions and thoughts. Please e-mail me on here or at GDillingham32@yahoo.com

Re: USAC Silver Crown Series...thoughts?
 

I couldnt agree more! Its time the car owners stand up and say NO to USAC!!!!! I too walked through the pits and seen the water temps after the races. All of them that I could see were at least 220 and most were 260. I would be willing to bet most teams will need to rebuild their engines completly. Also, I heard the drivers having to switch the stumble valve in the corners and back again down the straights to get the motors to pull of the corners without bogging. All the engines sounded sick. It was awful ironic that many of the top cars that finished were Toyota's. Im not a consipiracy theorist but it was just an observation.

My first open wheel race was the Ted Horn 100 at Du Quoin several years ago and I have not missed one since. Last year I went to Springfield and Indy as well. After seeing the Hoosier 100 this last weekend I felt sick. The stands were empty, car count was low, cars werent running right, and the racing stunk.

I agree with George. Someone needs to get together with the owners and break off of USAC to save these cars. Even if it had to start as a 10 race dirt only thing next year. I think the other part of the problem is that there are not enough races (dirt specifically) to have new people justify buying cars. There are tracks like Knoxville, Belleville Highbanks, and maybe even Lawrenceburg that could be good additions! Maybe eventually the Syracuse Mile, Vegas, Lernerville, Williams Grove, Sacramento Mile ect. ect. if a new series could grow. I think, if in fact Bob Sargent lost money, a series could possibly persuade him to run with them at the miles and Terre Haute next year rather than with USAC. No doubt the fuel absolutely STINKS. Its terrible and it is single handidly ruining this series. Why did we have to leave methanol and make the series loose even more cars when it is already on life support.

I race micros now and I told my mom back at Du Quoin a few years ago that I will race a crown car at Du Quoin before I am 30. I hope this dream of mine can come true! However, at the rate USAC and IGNITE are going I feel like this may not happen. I'm pleading with owners to stand up and make a stand and tell USAC ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!

Let's save these great cars!

Kurt Hermann
Open wheel racer, fan, and hopefully future Silver Crown Racer

Re: USAC Silver Crown Series...thoughts?
 

I brought this up a couple of days ago on a different thread. I'll just say this. I asked Sargeant if he has ever thought of doing the deal himself. He replied," That isn't the first time I've been asked that today.''

This shouldn't be a dump on USAC thread, but it is their actions that will turn it that way, and this time they will deserve it.

They say a blind squirrel will find a nut, the whole flock of squirrels in Speedway couldn't find one, if they were sitting in a bushel basket full.

Re: USAC Silver Crown Series...thoughts?
 

It doesn't really matter what fuel the series uses, it has been on a steady decline for years, and would continue to decline if they used Methanol. The average joe that lives in an area that a race is in and decides to go and bring his or her family probably doesn't know what fuel the cars are running so blaming the crowd on the fuel isn't entirely accurate. The races are long and generally boring. They aren't particularly entertaining races for an average fan or someone with a child to enjoy. They are usually long, often drug out days. Its a novelty series. There is only one series that uses the cars and only a handful of tracks to run at. They run novelty motors (open headed fuel injected steel block 358s) that no other series or car really uses. Maybe without the money that ethanol brought to the table they pull the plug on the series completely? It's not like the races are standing room only. I think someone willing to bring these cars to the track and pay the purse that they require would be a fool of a promotor, when you can bring in a sprint car race, pay a lower purse, have many more cars, and a bigger crowd. You can pay the same purse and bring in the World of Outlaws and really fill the stands. Its simple economics. And why would you want to build a brand new car and motor that you can only race 5 times a year? It doesn't make sense. Maybe you silver crown fanatics should be happy for ethanol, because it is an attempt to keep the series alive. Either way it is a lose-lose. And I don't believe that there are even any conspiracy theories to talk about in reference to the Toyotas in silver crown competition because "Toyota" in itself has little to do with those engines besides the cylinder head and block design, which have been around in the series for several years.

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I think the point is that it is costing teams a lot of money to get the motors to run on the ethanol. Plus, the ethanol is causing the motors to need rebuilt after one race. This extra money the teams are having to pump out will cut the car count even more than it already is.

I agree with the amount of races not being enough. It would be a shame to see these cars die. They are for sure a car that isnt seen or raced everyday. I dont have all the answers but I'm do know if the series continues to be ran like it is, it wont exist too much longer. Maybe thats what the powers at be want?:7:

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Well I know for a fact it is expensive to change one over, but as I was saying, without the Ignite money sponsoring the series and paying out the money, you probably wouldn't see a series at all, which is what it is probably coming to anyway. As Bobby Knight once said "If r@pe is inevitable, sit back and enjoy it."

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Yeah, the race was boring... but, bringing in the Outlaws? I guess it would make it easier on the track prep guys; Water on Thursday and DONE! Dry-slick all night long. Then you'd have to deal with that stupid wing. The reason why it's so fun watching a non-wing, whether it be Silver crown, sprint or midget, event because you can watch the drivers work at figuring out the quickest way around. I love the "BIG CARS" and will continue to support them, no matter what!:D

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Maybe it's time to bring back the PRA racing series that raced the old pavement cars. You know when USAC was suckered in by NASCAR and tried those strange looking pavement cars. :3:

Re: USAC Silver Crown Series...thoughts?
 

I am huge championship dirt car, silver crown fan... I have not missed a DuQuoin race in 30 plus years. But it appears that USAC's commitment to the series or their ability to guide this series into the future can certainly be called into question.

For me, here's the 64k dollar question and I think somewhat else has already said the same thing: what does Bob Sargent want to do?

It seems that without he and track enterprises, there is no series anyway. So what does Bob and TE think? What do they want to do? Is he ready to return to a simpler rules package, get some of those parked cars in garages right now back to the dirt, and lead the series into the future?

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:deadhorse:Yet another gripe fest. Haters, get over it and move on with your life.

I wish I had the last two minutes of my life back.

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wasn't the best race but Coons just had the field covered and the early attrition played a part, Kaeding was 1-2 secs behind most of the last half of the race but could never get close and Coons pulled away, best race was for 3rd as Levi Jones attempted to take it the whole time and then with about 10 to go him and his teammate took it

Re: USAC Silver Crown Series...thoughts?
 

I wouldn't call it a gripe fest per se. I'd say it is reality. The field was down by 1/3 this year. Only 10 cars or so running at the end of the race. There is a steep learning curve on this fuel and it is hurting the entire series whether anyone wants to admit it or not. This has not been a "simple" swap of fuel nozzels and go as promised.

Re: USAC Silver Crown Series...thoughts?
 

Agreed
To hate it would be to add yet another empty seat in the grandstands. Car counts have gone down from mid 40's not so long ago to 30's now low 20's. What happens next year if 17 cars show up?

Somebody better be thinking about the future. That's not hating on it, that loving the series and caring about its future

Re: USAC Silver Crown Series...thoughts?
 

Exactly right, when car counts go down, so does attendance, that's a fact. Basically USAC found a new sponsor with cash and free fuel for the drivers and thought it was a godsend. I know they thought this would all work out great, teams get free fuel for the year and all they have to do is swap out some carb. jets, a win-win situation. But alot of car owners saw the big picture and didn't follow along, and we lose cars counts, that familiar smell and sound, and fewer cars finishing races. Smarter minds than mine will have to step in here to save this series and i pray they do.
& 1 last mention, getting on here and calling everyone haters and wishing you had your precious time back is like the wise folks that call in to opinion polls and say they have no opinion. People who love racing, of all types, and worry about the demise of a historical series and try to express an opinion to help are not haters, hopefully they are part of the solution. Sorry if my simple post took more of your time, all the best, bob:22:

Re: USAC Silver Crown Series...thoughts?
 

Keep the conversation going on here. Never discount the power of the fan opinion and the internet. It gets results. BTW, the USAC midget division has been on life support for years. Other than midget week, it's a race here and a race there and that's it for the season. Now we have the Silver Crown cars on the chopping block.

I feel as tho I have a good relationship with some at the usac office and my intentions aren't to strain those but boys we cannot keep doing this. I thank ignite for trying but the fact is it just wont fly. I documented every car at indy and water temps ranged from 220-320(yes 320) oil temps beyond320. I am no genius but motors cannot live at those temps for100 miles and they havent. I would safely say that 75 percent of the engines were hurt fri, including Stewarts, 6r, rw, fox and mine. Our motor was fresh and we all know the costs with freshening, all my fuel work was professionally done by one of the best in the business, i overnighted a oilcooler at a substantial cost and even dynoed my engine to make sure we were right, guess what i got? A 260 degree one lap qualification run and 10 laps of a main at 240 -260. Judging by the sound of it, a rebuild is in order again. We cannot continue because of this until senses prevail. I race these cars because i love them and they provided me a chance to step back into the history that has us all where we are today, to live out a dream of competing with the big cars and paying my respect to Foyt, Ward,Larson, Gary B. Hewitt, Parsons and all my heros. Its a sad time when money trumps tradition, when leadership cannot see clearly and when great things like this series fall because of it . Please Mr.Miller, use your head and make the right decision

Shane Cockrum 114

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Thanks Shane, best post in the thread :8:

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We are currently planning on making the trip over to Springfield and Duquoin but there sure seems to be some major concern on the future of the Silver Crown series. I really hope that it does not fall apart but given the current set of circumstances, it does not look good. We really enjoy the big cars on the dirt miles but with dwindling car counts and only a handful of cars finishing we may have to reconsider our plans.

USAC, the future of Silver Crown racing is in your hands what are you going to do?

Re: USAC Silver Crown Series...thoughts?
 

Sometimes this board is kind of the boy who cried wolf when it comes to complaints. You hear so many, what’s the point of reading more negativity? I ignore a lot of it because it doesn’t matter what the subject is, something’s wrong with it.

However, on this one, this is a serious issue it sounds like to me. If the teams are seeing issues that have been described, then I hope USAC will listen. The teams are the ones that spend the money to run. As was said, if the car counts keep going down, so will the fans. It’s a fact that has already taken place. People not showing up doesn't help the issue, but you can't blame people...I might be one of them if the slide continues. USAC is a sanctioning body that makes the rules that racers follow....meaning they aren't going to make everybody happy. However, there are some times when they really need to get impute (or more impute) from teams. This sure sounds bad to me and that is why fans are down about it. I know I am. I like SC racing because the races are (were) events, not just another race. I really hope the issues are looked into and it's not just, "those are the rules show up or don't". Caring doesn't always mean people are being negative about a subject.

Re: USAC Silver Crown Series...thoughts?
 

its hard to go back when the money is already spent.

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So the following teams that raced last year weren't at this year's Hosier 100. Anyone know why?

5,* Baldwin
6,* Klatt
14,* McQuinn
37,* Indiana Underground
39,* Aquilini
55,* Bateman
65,* Hartenstine
71,* Kunz
91,* Hagar
97,* SC
116,* Racing Associates
199,* Edwards/RE

steiny
:32:

Re: USAC Silver Crown Series...thoughts?
 

Here is the way I see it and I am sure many of you will disagree. The front engine upright cars days have been numbered ever since the tracks other than Indy started being paved. I hate it because I love those cars. When is the last time a mile dirt track was built in the USA? Has one been built since the car was invented? I feel bad for all that are involved, but I don't see how any thing will help. Remember the overwhelming support the PRA got? The car counts were not large and the crowds barely average. If you want to see these shows continue stop complaining and show the world people are interested by showing up and supporting the series, that is the only thing that will help.

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That goofy Gold Crown, or whatever it was known as, kinda drove the budget minded "big car" owners, into a hole, that was the spike that wasn't needed, bad timing, poor performance, lack of interest, you name it, bad move! Bob!:)

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So, what everyone is asking for is for a sanctioning body to make a bold move, Look into the future of the series, look for ways to take this cars into the new centrury, look for ways to open these cars to new tracks, and to make them a way to become a stepping stone for other series? Is this the general idea?

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Agree, with several others on this thread, the switch to ethanol is not correlated with lack of fan support. The decline in interest has been many years in the making. I am a history buff so I greatly appreciate the history of these cars. However, for me personally I find sprint cars to be much more entertaining and prefer to save my racing dollars for sprint shows. Sorry, but that is my preference. Hope there are enough hard core fans to keep the series going. If you want to save SC, get out and support them. Hopefully USAC will hear the complaints from owners and adjust accordingly.

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There needs to be more races in order to gain owner interest. If you have a dirt car, you can only run it what, 5 times in the year? Engines aren't cheap, especially in something you can't use anywhere else. Think if they used an ASCS 360 engine, or hell even a 410 motor, you may get some cars back. Put them back on Methanol, and get rid of the corn.

My problem is the price tag to go to the track to watch them, the only time I see them all year is the 4-Crown, because they run with the other classes to make it worth it. I would love to see a triple header at Lawrenceburg, Terre Haute, or any other half mile.

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That is my point. There will never be a lot of races, because the dirt miles are limited. The ticket prices are high because the purse is decent. By the time a promoter pays rent etc, there is very little money to be made. One guy is keeping the whole thing going, but you can't expect him to keep doing it when he loses money. If people ever want this to suceed, they better support it now before its gone.

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QED for several people.....:(

Re: USAC Silver Crown Series...thoughts?
 

I love these cars and always have. They are traditional, but that doesn't mean they are outdated. They can put on some incredible races. Some people say they like the sprints better. I can appreciate that, sprint cars are great, I love them too. To me there is something magical about these big cars blasting around these big tracks. I am spoiled being from Springfield my whole life, the Bettenhausen is the first day off my calendar, and has been since the 70's. I've seen them at DuQuoin and Terre Haute too, and loved them just as much. I hope USAC can make it up to the owners and get them back. If not, I hope someone else does, whoever that may be. The dirt champ cars were a proving ground for the best drivers in the world at one point. Guess what, 100 laps on a big track is still the same, an incredible feat of skill, patience, and courage. Long live the Silver Crown.

I have been lucky to be around silver crown racing since I was young. My dad has owned a car and we always have run the miles,eldora, and Terre haute. I must admit as younger man 19-26, I was kinda turned off by the miles (long, spread out, usually 1 or 2 car pack. It wasnt till the last few years that I really saw how unique these cars and tracks were. Bottom line the casual fan isn't going to invest the time and effort to gain the respect this series need.

The midgets and silver crown need to be together. I think usac was on to something last year with national drivers champion consisting of 25 best finds in all three divisions. I believe silver crown and midgets both benefited a few cars who would have not joined the party if not for overall big picture. They must implement some form of this soon to help both divisions.

Second of all, silver crown needs the midgets on pavement. The may 19th orp show gives validation that stand alone silver crown pavement shows don't have the pull (unless bobby east wants to flick off the official every show and be moved to the back of the pack to still pass everyone and win like at Milwaukee last year lol)

I never was around but double features at eldora and Terre haute wouldn't hurt and yes with the midgets.

As for the miles, baseball is a sport bases on tradtion and it's ratings ratings have dropped horribly over the years. The 50 lap was awesome from a spectator point of few. Our car normally comes on late in a hundred lap run, but I want the 50 lap red back. All those races were good and the fab experience having those cars stop on the front stretch was amazing.

Pair the midgets with silver crown and make an overall championship that includes both series, more shows at Terre haute and eldora or even other half miles. Bring back the red on the miles. If people want to see tire conservation they can go to NASCAR , oh wait there stands are now empty to

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Myself and some of the others were not at the first couple of races for all the reasons of what happened. All the owners saw this coming, Some went forward, Others decieded to wait and see. Dont hold your breath for things to change. I haven't seen Kody Swanson on here since the races giving his opinion.
Keith Kunz

Re: USAC Silver Crown Series...thoughts?
 

This confirms some of my suspicions as to why some cars were not at Indy. I know of one other guy, that normally runs the dirt races, who is on the list above, that didnt go to Indy due to not being able to get the engine running properly on ethanol.

I believe the 6R cars were big into this ethanol deal and i do remember Kody posting awhile back on here about a test in FL? From the sounds of his updates on things everyone on here was misinformed and the fuel was as simple as a couple inexpensive changes to the injection systems. Well, to me it looks as though it was more than that and to boot now the majority of teams are rebuilding their engines after just Indy.

How many cars will not be at Springfield in August if nothing changes? :7:

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The last mile dirt I can think of was the Nazareth track back in the 1980's.

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There was a clip on TV last week of an interview with the president of Ignite. He stated that Ignite fuel will be the exclusive fuel for all USAC divisions next year.
http://www.insideindianabusiness.com...m.asp?ID=53907

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& by the way Groove Grabber, one of the most beautiful Silver Crown cars ever. I know that don't help fix the engine...just sayin'. Good luck the rest of the year, bob.

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USAC must have a death wish. This could kill all the divisions. If a car runs elsewhere, other than USAC, are they expected to change everything over so they can run methanol instead of Ignite? Are they to have different engines?

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It WILL be the death of USAC Midgets if that happens because they are on the chop block already. The POWRi series is getting plenty of midgets and I dont see them changing fuels anytime soon. I dont see the local sprint car tracks going for it either honestly...if they dont go for it how many guys will just run USAC?

I think it comes back to what a couple have said. Ignite tried and it didnt work. I think the logical conclusion is to go back to the way things were when the cars ran fine and try to find other ways to help open wheel racing grow.

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Oh... OK.. Ignite fuel for USAC midgets now... LOLOLOLOL You have got to be kidding. I'm still waiting on the $12,000 midget motor that was suggested by the USAC president three years ago.. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZ

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+1

Spot on.

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Anyone else having trouble with the link now?