IL. Lightning Sprint Series Web Site
 

The IL. Lightning Sprint Series the series for 1000cc mini sprints you can check out their new web site at:www.illinoislightningsprintseries.com for the complete 2012 schedule and rules. Season opener at Peoria Speedway in Peoria IL is on April 14th $400 to win the 20 lap Feature event.

Re: IL. Lightning Sprint Series Web Site
 

Your new improved rules look good to me. Wish you guys were a little closser to Indiana. Would love to get up there to run this year, If we can get a deal on gasoline for truck LOL.

I think you might be missing the point on cockpit adjustable shocks, we have been using them for years. We gave up wing adjusters and brake adjusters in favor of the shocks a long time ago. We run without wings ever so often and the shocks sure help out then. The adjustable shocks don't cost any more than a nice body wrap would and add to the performance of the car.

Last year when we came to race with you guys we disconected the shocks to be legal but we didn't own a wing adjuster so we were at a slight disadvantage. Those wing adjusters cost almost as much as the shocks do anyhow. Maybe you could make it either-or but not both and let the better set up win out.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: IL. Lightning Sprint Series Web Site
 

Dad. thanks for your reply. We just got done with months of discussions on the gas/alcohol debate. I understand your point but the ILSS have decided no cockpit adjustable shocks in the regular 2012 season. The Lightning Sprint National at the end of the year will have the basic rules for that race about mid season on the ILSS web site. Hope this allows you to come and race with us this season. Check out our schedule on the web site we have a few 2 day raceas a Fri and Sat and some Sat and Sun.

Re: IL. Lightning Sprint Series Web Site
 

DAD,
I really like all of your posts, and almost always agree with you, but I dont see how you can say that cockpit adjustable shocks cost less then wing adjusters. You can buy electric wing adjusters for under $100 and unless you flip the car they last forever. I have not located any cockpit adjustable shocks sets for under $100. Where do you get those?

It's interesting that one car's (1) fuel injection on the chopping block. Basically you can spend as much as you want on ECU Mapping, high flow 60lbs injectors, digital fuel pumps, fuel pressure regulators etc... But cant have manual injection... Well not even mechanical, aparently Kinsler you can run. and other brands are ok. But just not engler?

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:):5:

Re: IL. Lightning Sprint Series Web Site
 

Bill Felker Racing Engines can convert most throttle bodies over to Methanol, with super trick 60 pound injectors, with air cooled high flow fuel rail, and all machine work for about $600.00. They are almost as good as those "low" tec mechanical types injectors that they have been racing on since the early 50's and a whole lot cheaper. We have used them for 3 years now with to problems. Light weight air filters go for about $275.00.

Englers injectors are like the old zx12r's we don't understand them so we are afraid of them and want to out law them "NOT US" !! WE HIGH-TEC DIGITAL RACERS

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

---------- Post added at 12:08 AM ---------- Previous post was Yesterday at 11:46 PM ----------

Good adjustable shocks "do not" cost less but are much more "Cost Effective" to race on.

DID YOU EVER TRY TO RUN A "NON-WING SHOW" WITH A "WING ADJUSTER" ?

Might even want to check into those trick internal wing adjusters wings. Every race supplier out there is trying to get into our wallets that's how they eat and I don't blame them for that. It our job to get what works best for us. For ME the object is to win the race at the slowest speed possible and the least amount of money spent on the race car. If you got the "JACK" go for it and spend as much as you like and do it with MY blessings.

We have had our cockpit shocks for about 8 years now. They are**8** years old. Got them from AJ Felker. We can run any track around with our 4 basic shocks from very very heavy to dri-dri slick. Send them back at the end of the year and get them rebuilt. Even good shocks are dead at the end of a season. If your shocks are older than a season you are fighting yourself, even the best shocks wear out and need attention to work properly. We are pretty fast and a lot of that is because our shocks and maybe our chassis (very limited production FSC units ). We use cockpit adjustable shocks only on the rear end, and have never run a front wing. The money we save on paint we put in handling. The guy that runs through the turns faster usually also gets down the straights faster.

Most people put too much faith in big motors and injectors and that kinda of stuff thinking that will make them faster and end up chasing their tails and making big holes in their expensive motors and spending a lot more money than they need to.

Can you really buy a good shock for less than a hundred dollars? I don't think so. I would rather have a thousand dollars in a good shock package (one time investment) than a thousand dollars in my motor or vinyl graphics, and in the end I'll spend less money to race and hopefully do better job.


Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: IL. Lightning Sprint Series Web Site
 

Perhaps just a poor choice of words. I think what they were trying to say was no mechanical injectors for 2013. In order to sell stuff you have to build it up with a whole bunch of "hype" and sometimes this "hype" scares people. They have never figured a way to ban "RICH" people from racing which is what a lot of the rules try to do in a round about way. Some people will morgage theit house to race and be up front. Racing is a very addictive sport, and many people have made a "small fortune" doing it, usually after starting with a "large fortune".

If you require a "SHOCK PACKAGE RULE" there will be somebody spending thousands of dollars having their shocks tricked out and while still appear stock. You can only get so much power out of a given size motor. I can remember back in the early 90's people who were running mechanical injectors at the time crying about those new fangled electronic injectors that were starting to appear on the newer cycle motors. They knew it would cost 10's of thousands of dollars to convert over and would just kill racing.

Well guess what-----they came anyhow and they were a great improvement over the old mechanical type injectors out there but they did not cost as much money as they thought. If a guy wants to run mechanical injectors that should be his deal. He---WILL--- spend more money but the enjoymet he has changing pills for each track and each weather condition and every temperature is "PRICLESS" to him, and he will be having a great time doing it. Why deprive him of his fun by trying to save him a few bucks, go on and let him play with himself and spend his money the way he sees fit. Race clubs are trying to act like the "Federal Government" by wanting to micro manage our racing experience. Can't we just "CHILL A LITTLE". The fewer rules the better for all of us. I don't think rules have ever saved anyone any money and in the long run make it harder to inforce the ones we need to.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

I know this has been brought up before but wouldn't it be nice to have a national rule book. Have a governing body of one elected person from each group that truly wants to work with other groups and sees the need to bring continuity to our sport. In stead of knee jerk reaction because of hear say or benefitting any one person. Get controlled dyno numbers, cost vs benefit to the racers and some type of 3 year homologation to keep rules consistent for a known time period.

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Good Morning!!

Your right, it is to much to ask for.

We will be back out to pay MMSA a visit this year. I see several dates that will work out very well for us.

Re: IL. Lightning Sprint Series Web Site
 

Great! Bring a friend or two.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

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Just got back from ordering my new Engler fuel injection system last week.
Posted on the IL. Lightning Sprint Series web site my reasons for running an Engler system. Basicly it boils down to safety and reliable issues. If any one has any questions about the Engler fuel injection system give Tim Engler a call he would be happy to answer any questions. Oh by the way I'm not rich I wish I was I'd quit my job and race full time in a heartbeat. I don't want to use my vacation days to take off and go racing and have something go wrong with my EFI. 5 hrs. is a long way to go and have trouble {maybe not but you never no}. I don't know why the ILSS will not keep the 2012 rules for 2013. I already know my car will weigh 1000 lbs. because it has 1 3/8 tubing. Maybe somebody can send me a PM explaining their decision.:)

Congrats .we are still workin with Tim on this deal and the performance and safety is way better than electronic f/I,not saying electronic is terrible but a electronic injector will only push so much fuel and if ya knock a hose off your taking a bath in 60 psi of gas /methanol. I'd almost think that if a person runs electronic they should mandate a switch to cut the pump power in a event of a hard impact . We r racing for fun here and we don't need someone hurt or killed from being burnt up. Just my opinion

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GOOD***SOMEBODY BESIDES ME IS THINKING ABOUT ELECTRIC FUEL PUMP CONTROL!!

It is not all that hard. Speedway motors sells a switch that is controlled by oil pres. When the oil pres drops below 12psi, I think, it turns off the fuel pump, Might even save a motor if oil pres. drops off all of a sudden. We use the factory ecm method that is a little more complicated but works well also.

Racing is dangerous. I don't think Doug Wolfgang was using electronic injection when he got burned so bad several years ago. Safety is not a good point to use to promote mechanical injection. People spend money for a mechanical injection unit because they believe it will give them an "EDGE" period end of statement. This may or may not be true. I used to sell people DUAL EXHAUST because they could tell their dad or wife or whomever "well it helps my gas mileage" That was back when gas was 35 cents a gallon.

I don't buy Tim's deal that you can only push so much fuel with electronic injection. Want more fuel install 90 pound injectors. In "Indy Racing" or "Formula 1" Price is not the object, this being said why don't they use mechanical injection. The reason is that the computer is so much smarter than a human being who only has two or three adjustments to make (pill, spring and another spring or two). The human can get the mechanical injector to kinda of idle, Run like hell WOT, and maybe if they are lucky not to load up under caution laps. With the electronic injection a person can if they want adjust the fuel requirements for every kind of engine demand in 250 rpm increments, try that with mechanical injection.

With the Kawasaki we are running we not only have a main injector in the throttle body but we run what is nown as a "SHOWER INJECTOR" that injects fuel into the inlet horns from several inches over the air horns themselves. This actually cools the charge air and allows more fuel to be burned by the engine. Try that with mechanical injection.

The people in Il. are trying to make a growing group of mini sprint racers and they are doing a pretty good job of doing it. They want to try to make a level playing field for everybody. If everyone agreed with them then they would not be doing their job.

The guys that built up all the hype about mechanical injection to sell them are also the guys that lead Il. to not allow them. We have been racing a long time. We have beat a lot of guys running mechanical injectors and been beaten by them as well. The group in Il. have not been around cycle powered cars for all that long. If it was me I would say bring on the Englers, Kinslers, and Hilbourn and lets race. We are all looking for an "EDGE" If mechanical injection is the "EDGE" for this year so be it. Put a good driver together with a hard working set up man and you can sell anything. If it worked for Steve and Karl it stands to reason it should also work for me don't you think.

One of the best things about "IOW" is people can talk with one another over great distance like between Blomington and Peoria and even New Albany and let the other people know how they feel about the way things are done. If anything will bring about National Rules it will probably be because of the "Indiana Open Wheel". It is much better sitting here hammering away at this key board than sitting in an old rented hotel meeting room and listening to people cry about why it is not a good idea because it will slow them down they think. They never really say "slow me down" but that is what they are thinking.


Honest Dad himself:6::6:

I don't know where u guys have been but all hench cars have switches to shut fuel pump down ... also i am not convinced in any way mechanical is safer than electronic u still have nozzles and same amount of fuel lines from tank ....????? Explain.

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They are out there Drew, fuel pump is controlled by kill switch only no redundit control for pump in case driver gets knocked out.

Fuel line on electronic injectors has 60 psi fuel running in the hose beside you on mechanical injectors the fuel pres in the hose is at atmospheric pres. 14.7 psi. 60 psi and hose clamp on the fuel line should be a no-no also. These are out there as well.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Speedway one won't work. I had one and the zx10 have very low oil pressure when there warm. And when u get off the gas quick the oil pressure drops off. Need to find a switch that opens in the 2-5 range. What is hench using?

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I do believe you can buy a pressure switch, that is adjustable, thru the input port, but, the best bet, I guess, would be leave the kickstand switch, or the tilt switch hooked up, and maybe play with setting the angle on it, kinda hard to control everything. Bob!:)

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The switch may have a lower thresh-hold some Gm's "Vega" were down around a couple of pounds.

That is why we kept our ecm hooked up it requires crank and cam sensor signal to stay on. People take these off when they cut down harness I don't know why but they do. If you want a real scarry ride throw her into a turn with 19 cars behind you and have that lay down switch think you laid her down and cut her off dead.

Check Jeg's item # 510-12-810 Hd Holley unit 5 psi about $25.00. If you drop below 5 psi you are running away from your oil and you will have a problem.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: IL. Lightning Sprint Series Web Site
 

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Ca...610_0213827509

I would assum this opens and 2 and closes at 8psi. Would need a relay that will handle fuel pump current.

Re: IL. Lightning Sprint Series Web Site
 

This switch should do it without the relay, not talking about that many amps. But Most auto relay's will handle a fuel pump I think 4 or 5 amps.

Re: IL. Lightning Sprint Series Web Site
 

That is a Vega oil pressure switch. It's the one I use. All you need is a
1\8 inch pipe Tee and a starter switch ( to override pressure switch while starting) I think I spent less than 10 bucks.
As long as you have this safety switch it's as safe as mechincal injection. (hilborn style still has high pressure from pump to barrel valve)
Bobby Layne
2011 MLS Champion

Re: IL. Lightning Sprint Series Web Site
 

This is a great discussion all the way around. What I love about the 1000cc lightning sprints, is that we have many different combinations of chassis, axles, shocks, engines, injection, wheels, and what not all competing against each other. What I like about the Illinois club is that they are trying to keep overall costs down, to allow the best driver/setup win the race. There are a couple lightning sprint clubs that have not done that, and they are primarily having $8k engines in the winning cars. Now, I am not in favor of outlawing one particular engine, or one particular injection, because all that does is lose those cars from racing, since they may not want or be able to change engines or injection. Let all stock engines run with any ECU, or injection run, because I dont feel that a particluar stock engine or injection is going to make you win the race. Last 2 years in our club we had several races won by a car with a stock motor on gas, several races one by a hopped up motor with a 15 year old Hillborn injection on it, several races won by a stock motor with achohol injection with 60 races on it, and a couple races won by a 10 year old stock motor with Hillborn. Point being, none of these races were won by the engine or the injection. They were won by the driver and the setup. None of these guys had cockpit adjustable anything. So I guess I AGREE a little bit with all of you, but I really beleive that in general the best rules packages for 1000cc lightning sprints are the ones that allow ANY stock motor, with any injection (EFI or mechanical). If you don't control the costs, we will eventually not be a low cost racing series any more. But.....if you have too many rules, you alienate all the guys that have something you outlawed, and you have noone left to race. It is all a delicate balance. And yes, I would love to see all the rules the same nationwide, but as was said below, we are pretty close. With a couple small changes, I could run either of my cars (one EFI and 1 Hillborn) with any club in this country. Lets all have a fun season this year, and continue to expand what I still believe is the best open wheel division on dirt for the $$$ spent.

Steve Becker
RMLSA (Colorado)

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OK +++++WHO HAS THE $8000,00 hand granade. Or is it just hear say. If the guy is beating you and blows up about ever 5 or 6 races he is probably a hot rod. When you raise the power in these things they don't live too long. If his motor is a couple of years old he is probably stock, and just out racing you. If I'm cheaten and you beat me you have to be cheating. That ain't so but it's the first thing most new people in racing think. Some of these old guys make it look so easy everybody thinks they are cheating. These guys have payed their due's for years. Don't accuse them of cheating ask them to help you out.

I am a shoe string racer. I wont't buy anything that does not make me faster. A lot of people will go out and buy inexpensive shocks for $100.00 bucks apiece. They think their shock problems are over. They don't have enough experience to know that after a season they are worn out. They keep on racing on them and they know them fast guys are cheating. Not so they have them old 8 year old 3 or 4 hundred dolar shocks and have them rebuilt every year, a lot of times when they go back they are told about improvements in valving and simply have them re valved. You can't do that with those inexpensive shocks.

Poor people go out and buy inexpensive furniture, cars, etc and the stuff keeps wearing out and breaking and they buy more junk. The rich guy or smart guy buys quality and it lasts forever and they actually save money by spending money. Quality Advanced Racing Adjustable shocks will save you money in the long run and keep you from chasing your tail with handling problems. A good car will make a jerk look like a real driver a poor handling car will make even old " Smoke " look like a jerk.

A lot of racers have never driven a good car so they have no reference point as to what is right and what is wrong. Ask some of those old cheaters what they think would help you. chances they won't stear you too far off and it might learn you something.

If you can find a couple of minutes to spare GOOGLE MMSA Mini Sprints and read their rules. Probably one of the shortest rule books around and they reallly work.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

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Someone spent $8000 dollars on a lightning sprint motor?? I would like to meet this guy I've got some ocean front property in Kansas that's for sale. All I can say is they saw him coming!!
Dad you are right it's 90% set up 5% driver and 5% luck.

Bobby Layne

Re: IL. Lightning Sprint Series Web Site
 

Bobby if you got the money there are several companys that would be glad to set you up. We have raced with these guys before they are not that much faster, They do make a big mess when they let go. And the poor guy is slow for about a month or so.

Back in the 1200 cc days these motors almost killed mini sprints. Car counts were dropping like a rock. Around here old Allen Ruppenthal of ERC race cars saw potential of these 1000 cc motors. He installed one in one of his cars got the best driver in the area and proceeded to put the woop a** on the old 1200cc cars. These engines were as hot out of the box as one of them "Orent Express" 1200 motors and they lived forever. The only bad thing or maybe good things is they don't take kindly to being hot rodded.

About the best thing you can do for one of them is convert it over to menthanol. It won't help out much in the HP department but it will drop the coolant temp down to where the thermostat can take care of the heat. You "do" need the thermostat for the ecm to know what to do. When they get over hot they go into what they call "Limp Home Mode", and cut back on all the adjustments.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: IL. Lightning Sprint Series Web Site
 

Bobby- you are correct. those 1200 cc hopped up motors did almost kill the lightning sprint racing. The BEST thing that ever happened was the 1000cc motors that evolved to be what they are.
Dad- you are correct in that the guy with the hopped up motors used them for 4-6 races then installed another. But, he did win a lot of races, but he had the whole package- hot motor, great car, great setup and great driver.
I am a shoe string guy myself. Just having fun in a great class of cars.
Dad- look forward to meeting you one day. I will have to come out to the midwest and race with y'all sometime. I read the MMSA rules and for the most part I love em.

Re: IL. Lightning Sprint Series Web Site
 

Sometimes a few rules can say a whole lot. I think the race directors attitude has a whole lot to do with a clubs fortunes. We have areal good team in charge of the MMSA and that helps a lot. Nothing hurts a series more than a one winner all the time and everybody racing for second place. It is their job to prevent this from happening.

We have several 2 day shows this summer and a few of them will be a long haul for a lot of us racers. This would be a good time for some of you guys to come over and race with us at some of the great tracks in the mid-west. With gas being what it is we are all gong to have a tuff time racing this summer. Would be great to meet some of the IOW people. I'm a lot younger than I type.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Jegs or quickcar makes one also.

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Low oil pres. cut off switch? :6:

Re: IL. Lightning Sprint Series Web Site
 

I went to your web sight. I see that you also race with that guy we call "Quantrill's Raiders", Mark Billings. He has been racing with us for several years now, He knows his way around the midwest (Indiana and Ohio) pretty good. It would be nice if you guys could load up and come out and race with us Hoosiers, Buckeyes and Hill Billy's.

From what I can see from your web sight They wouldn't miss Layne for a race or two. You already got the perfect attendance award so come on out and race for fun now.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

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I would like to go back there to race but with all the different weight rules and tire rules it makes that almost impossible, but this a whole different thread.
I almost forgot (that comes with old age) When you wire the safety switch you make and break the ground side this is according to Ford engineers And I wasn't going to question their intelligence.

Bobby Layne

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It appear these new rules are costing cars to show up. These are not club cars but traveling cars. Plus how many locals have old 1100 that are now illegal? Maybe these guys only show up a handful of races but a car is a car when they show up. I think some of these rules may have good intentions, but at the cost of car count it is not wroth it. Plus if true dyno work would have been done ILSS would see these new rules are not actually doing what they are intended to do but the opposite.