Ignite Ethanol in USAC Silver Crown in 2012
 

Hey Everyone:

There has been a lot of opinions posted about the USAC Silver Crown series switching to Ignite Racing Fuel (Ethanol) in 2012, and I just wanted to post about what we've found.

On Monday, we tested one of the Team 6R Racing Silver Crown cars in Pensacola, Florida using the Ignite ethanol mandated for the series in 2012. For this test, we used a data acquisition system that measured throttle position, engine rpm, mph, water temperature, exhaust gas and etc.

We ran 117 green flag laps, including a 35 lap non-stop run to conclude our day- and this is what we found:

We used 23 gallons of fuel during the whole test (in 117 laps around the half-mile Five Flags Speedway). The 35-lap run at the end of the day accounted for 6 of the gallons used.

We did adjust our fuel system after our first few runs in the test, and we were able to get the motor to run around the track and on restarts, without any stumbling or hesitations.

Addressing the water temperature issue: it was a high of 60 degrees that day in Pensacola. During our test, we ran the smallest opening on the bottom nose that we had, measuring 16" wide by 2" tall. In an effort to build temperature, we taped off part of that opening, leaving only 10" by 2" opening for air to get to the radiator. During most of our 8-10 lap runs, it was difficult to get the motor to 180 degrees. So, we left the nose taped off like this for our 35 lap green flag run. The temperature climbed very steadily over the first half of the run, then started to flatten off after probably 20 laps. We started the run at 175 degrees and finished the run just above 200, with very little climb in temperature in the last 10 laps. Remember, this is with the smallest nose opening we had, and with part of that taped off to build more heat.

There has been concern about the use of Ethanol in older bladders. We left the remaining ethanol in our bladder (which is approximately 8-10 years old) all the way home from Florida. No leaks occurred.

All of the other data we measured during the test was normal, and I hope that this provides some insight into the use of Ignite Ethanol in 2012.

If you have any other questions, please feel free to call.

Kody Swanson & Darryl Guiducci (317-442-4499)


Here is a clip from the test, that shows the nose taped off at 0:06

Re: Ignite Ethanol in USAC Silver Crown in 2012
 

Don't know much about "Ignite Ethanol" conversation, but sure love the sound of that USAC Silver Crown motor!

Re: Ignite Ethanol in USAC Silver Crown in 2012
 

Nice to read a first-hand account of using it instead of everybody flying off the handle without even hitting the track yet.

Re: Ignite Ethanol in USAC Silver Crown in 2012
 

Thank you for sharing the results of your research. That was very gracious and much appreciated.:6:

Re: Ignite Ethanol in USAC Silver Crown in 2012
 

Thanx for the info, was wondering about the added Ethanol fuel. About the only thing I know about it is i don't want tp go from 10% to 15% in passenger cars. :22:

Re: Ignite Ethanol in USAC Silver Crown in 2012
 

Kody, thanks for taking the time and effort to post this information. It is always good to see someone post the facts, rather than unsupported opinion, and especially good to see a driver do it. Thanks again.

The fuel is garbage. Now cars r going to start the hoosier 100 with half the fuel half the weight. Ruins strategy.

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Re: Ignite Ethanol in USAC Silver Crown in 2012
 

Kody, Very cool to come on here and share that with us!

Re: Ignite Ethanol in USAC Silver Crown in 2012
 

Thank you to those of you who have shown your appreciation of this thread. I truly hope that what we have found can clear up some of the mis-conceptions about the future of ethanol in the USAC Silver Crown series, and help competitors to feel confident in moving forward with the change.

Calistoga-

I understand that you are upset about USAC Silver Crown choosing to use Ethanol in 2012. I have just read the entire thread that you started a month ago titled, "ethanol sucks," and the claims that you made about how ethanol will ruin the series.

However, this thread was not started to generate unsupported opinions about what is or isn't "garbage."

I started this thread to address some of the concerns that individuals and competitors have previously expressed about the use of the ethanol, including: whether or not bladders will be compatible, if engines will run so hot that new radiators and cooling systems will be required, whether the racing will suffer due to a noticable lack of power, and etc.

What I have reported here are results that we experienced from an actual test while running the Ignite racing ethanol, and are nothing more than that.

If anyone has questions about our experience and what we've found while running the Ignite ethanol, please feel free to ask, I am happy to do what I can to help.

Thanks,

Kody Swanson

Re: Ignite Ethanol in USAC Silver Crown in 2012
 

kody
thank's for the information . the video was scary to watch, right at the end when you were going down the straight away i was afraid the pant's on the guy in the red shirt were gonna fall down,thank goodness he bought a belt:18:

You are fed with a silver spoon. You dont know anything about tradition.

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Re: Ignite Ethanol in USAC Silver Crown in 2012
 

Thanks Kody. Very interesting and informative. We all appreciate the insight, Calistoga not withstanding.

I think maybe somebody got their feelings hurt, eh Calistoga?

Re: Ignite Ethanol in USAC Silver Crown in 2012
 

That is way out of line. Everyone else is glad that Kody has taken the time and effort to come on here and give us some facts. The fact that his facts may not agree with your opinions give you no right at all to resort to personal attacks.

Kody, thanks again for posting facts on this issue.

Re: Ignite Ethanol in USAC Silver Crown in 2012
 

Frank & Gregg,

Thank you very much for posting, for your kind words, and for helping to keep this thread on the issue at hand: helping provide insight to the ethanol/silver crown situation in 2012.

If anyone has any issues with me personally, please contact me directly, and allow this thread to keep focus on the issues that it was intended to address, and not me.

I am happy to respond to personal messages on my IOW account, emails at swansonkody@gmail.com, or phone calls at 559-284-4503.

Thank you all again for your interest.

Re: Ignite Ethanol in USAC Silver Crown in 2012
 

So Kody, having done this test, is it your belief that this is a positive move for this racing series?

Re: Ignite Ethanol in USAC Silver Crown in 2012
 

I noticed that the IndyCars exhaust smelled differently when they switched to ethanol. It almost smelled like popcorn. Was there a noticable difference during your test?

There folks, is someone that doesn't just participate in the sport, but cares about it. The time didn't HAVE to be taken to share the info.

Kody sure has done a lot with that silver spoon. *rolls eyes* Didn't know those held a steering wheel and won races.

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Re: Ignite Ethanol in USAC Silver Crown in 2012
 

Oh, yeah? When you were a child you were so ugly your mother set you in a corner and fed you with a slingshot.:3:

Seriously though, you should at least use your name if you're going to take personal shots at the guy, Daniel.

Jerry

Re: Ignite Ethanol in USAC Silver Crown in 2012
 

I am sorry that my answers are long-winded, but I want to do my best to be clear and completely answer the questions that were asked.

Ok- so I have tested this fuel once, and belief can be a strong word. I am still open to new information, so I can only tell you what I think based upon the information that I have so far.

I think that this CAN be a positive move for the series. Ignite Racing fuel has made a commitment to USAC and the Silver Crown series, that if managed correctly (by USAC), can definitely be a gain for the Silver Crown competitors and series.

However, this is my fear: All too often, perception becomes reality. With all of the negative assumptions that have been made about the fuel, and the future of the series, it can easily become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Rumors have started that Ethanol will kill your engine, your bladder and your series, and competitors have become worried about the future of their investments. Some say, I will wait until after the Hoosier 100 to see just what happens. If- enough competitors choose to wait it out, and we don't get the competitor support for the series at the beginning of the season, then I am afraid that will kill the series- regardless of what running the fuel is actually like. I hope that makes sense?

For this to be a positive move, certain things have to happen:

Total benefits must exceed total costs regarding the change to ethanol (For the competitors, since they are the ones that are actually making the change). The fear is that costs have only been assumed (almost on a worst case scenario- new bladders, radiators, etc), and nothing has really been said for the benefits. For the costs- fuel system changes will need to be made. But, from what we have found so far, you will not need to purchase brand-new bladders and develop a new cooling system with a brand-new radiator. (I hope that the results from our experience can help owners accurately estimate their cost to switch fuels.) For the benefits- It was announced at the meeting with Ignite, at the IMIS Show, that competitors will receive their fuel for 2012 racing events free of charge. There is talk of more benefits- higher purses, year-end points fund- but since nothing has been officially announced, that is just talk. I think that if USAC announced something more concrete about the benefits for Silver Crown competitors, it would give owners more confidence in what to expect with the switch to ethanol.

I really think that the single best effort that can be made to make this a positive situation- is for there to be clear and complete communication between USAC, Ignite Fuels, and the competitors. This would go a long way in preventing misconceptions that get started, and keeping efforts directed toward addressing the real issues at hand.


There absolutely was a difference in the smell of the fuel. When the fuel is raw- either in an open barrel, being poured into the tank, etc- it has a distinct smell, almost like a brewery? (I'm told that's what a brewery smells like).

However, when the car is sitting on pit road, at an idle, it is much more pleasant than methanol. When a car idles on methanol: it stinks, makes your eyes water and makes it hard to breathe. The Ethanol at idle almost has a sweet smell to it, and doesn't make it hard to breathe or your eyes water.


Hopefully that helps!
-Kody

Re: Ignite Ethanol in USAC Silver Crown in 2012
 

Gregg, I think that was a special additive designed to increase concession sales.

Re: Ignite Ethanol in USAC Silver Crown in 2012
 

............

Re: Ignite Ethanol in USAC Silver Crown in 2012
 

Kody - your information and responses are a class act! I have no skin in the game but very much appreciate a DATA driven discussion of the issue.

Can't wait to see you, Jordan and Tanner on the Michigan swing for Must See!

Re: Ignite Ethanol in USAC Silver Crown in 2012
 

I also don't have a dog in this fight, but I certainly appreciate the very informative and well thought out responses that Kody has provided. I guess being fed with a silver spoon makes the words flow better.:5: Thanks Kody for reporting facts and not assumptions.

Re: Ignite Ethanol in USAC Silver Crown in 2012
 

If my eyes aren't watering how will I know I'm at the races???

steiny
crewman SC#43
:32:

Re: Ignite Ethanol in USAC Silver Crown in 2012
 

Thanks, Kody, for all the info. I think there is some positives from the ethanol switch. I know I may be goofy, but I love those big tail tanks on the silver crown cars. To me it's like admiring a beautiful woman, those wonderful curves. I'd hate to lose that. I realize, though, that my wants aren't always what's best for the sport. Good luck to you this year, Kody.

Re: Ignite Ethanol in USAC Silver Crown in 2012
 

I am a big fan of Silver Crown racing, especially on the dirt miles. And I definitely appreciate the history behind it. I don’t see how anyone can be a fan and not see the history. And I would sell my left you-know–what to drive one.

I don’t see how getting a little better fuel mileage is going to hurt the sport. I don’t see the Silver Crown cars suddenly going to midget tanks (or even 33 gallon sprint car tanks). The mileage is only going to be 10-15% better.

When this started up a few weeks ago, I wanted to step in and make a few comments, but because of all the negativity, I decided not to. But now that some actual facts have come to light, I’ll add to it.

A few years ago, there were some sprints cars running on Ethanol (I think it was out in Knoxville, but I’m not sure). I had someone talking to me about supplying me with free ethanol for the year if I would run it. I talked to one local engine builder that I knew had built a motor for ethanol. I’m not going to tell you his name because I don’t want to drag him into this.

He told me that it only took them about an hour on the Dyno to figure it all out. He told me they used all the current fuel system, just changed the pill and the high speed settings. He did say it put out about 10% less horse power.

The deal ended up falling through, but not because of performance. I would run it today in my sprint car, especially if everyone else was running it also.

I’m sure most (if not all) Silver Crown owners Dyno their motor, and yes, it may take a little extra time at first, but with the overall cost of running a Silver Crown car , I can’t believe it would be a big deal.


Tom Paterson
(Someone who has never even seen a silver spoon)

Lets hope management does whats right for the racers or it will be a quick death. There are approximately 75 dirt cars out there, havent heard anyone saying," hey , I believe I'll just bring my car out this year" . Im just worried that we have funneled the amount of cars capable of showing up in half from what we had.

We focused on fixing the wrong problem. Im scared we temporarily saved usac but permanently eliminated racers, time will tell what true changes will be. A guarantee no less change than fuel system and potential for much more

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---------- Post added at 7:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 7:19 PM ----------

I dont mean to sound so critical of usac because I enjoy racing with them but its too touch and go to tippy toe around about it.
Show us how you will promote the series and bring it back to 90's fame. Not how to keep it alive one more year

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Re: Ignite Ethanol in USAC Silver Crown in 2012
 

Not only that, but they had to tie a pork chop around his neck just to get the dog to lick his face. :8:

Re: Ignite Ethanol in USAC Silver Crown in 2012
 

Hey no problem, I'm happy to share some information in a subject surrounded by rumors. I am very much a fan of the Silver Crown tail tanks, and am happy to let you know that losing that look will not be an issue. I have attached a photo clip of the USAC rule book for this year- stating that tail tanks must exceed the 59 gallon minimum size.


Thank you very much for sharing on this thread. As far as tank size, the 2012 USAC rule will prevent any tanks smaller than the 59 gal. minimum, so no % of better fuel mileage can warrant a midget/sprint tank, it'd be illegal.

I very much appreciate you sharing about your experience (and your engine builders). I hope that brings owners currently facing the switch a little more confidence about what the real costs will be. I do understand that additional dyno time will be additional cost, but I think the biggest fear up until now has been the complete unknown factor of what this change will really require. Your post definitely helps describe the changes that you had to make in your experience with a potential switch to ethanol, and I thank you for sharing!


Shane, I share some of the same fears. That is why I hope sharing some of this information will allow owners insight into the details of this change, and hopefully keep them interested in returning to the series this year. I really think that if the efforts being made by Ignite are managed correctly, and are managed to benefit the competitors of the Silver Crown series and not the sanctioning body, then things can begin to move forward. However, that is something that remains unknown- what USAC will do. While it has been announced about the fuel being provided free for next year, it would be great for USAC to shed some light on any additional benefits for next year, and if any of those benefits will be seen in the years beyond 2012.

Re: Ignite Ethanol in USAC Silver Crown in 2012
 

Leave the attacks at home, dude. I am impressed you posted the results of the test for everyone, Kody. Your main hope is USAC communicates with the owners the upside of switching to Ignite. I have run with USAC since 1989 and they don't communicate too well except when they want money for membership renewal. We have not decided what we will do with our champ cars this year, so I guess we are in the wait and see group.

Kody, can u verify whether or not the testing was done on an engine from last season and without any internal changes other than fueling? I just want to clear up some confusion on offseason rumors that have swirled concerning piston and cam changes that have some racers worried.

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Re: Ignite Ethanol in USAC Silver Crown in 2012
 

I can still remember that popcorn smell from the midgets back in the 50's. Good old castor oil. Blendzall also makes that smell.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Ignite Ethanol in USAC Silver Crown in 2012
 

:44:If USAC had slightest thought that pleasant odors wafting from race cars would help fill
empty seats they might mandate one of the scented top end lubricant fuel additives.

There is an extensive list to choose from: Cinnamon, Lemon, Raspberry, Banana, Vanilla
Bubble Gum, Root Beer, Fruit Punch, Pina Colada, Watermelon, Cotton Candy, Apple
Blueberry, Tangerine, Cherry, Grape, Strawberry, Black Licorice and Chocolate

Vanilla and blueberry could sure boost Funnel Cake sales.

I apologize for drifting so far off topic. :47: I just couldn't help myself.

Re: Ignite Ethanol in USAC Silver Crown in 2012
 

We fought the "tradition" battle back when we put roll cages on sprint cars and let women in the pits. Some people fight it every day when they see a winged car.
The greatest tradition of racing has been innovation, and changing for the future to make it better. Change is only a natural evolution of life.

Maybe we should go back to using gasoline instead, that way we can see the flames when the car is on fire. We tried that and decided to CHANGE because there was a better idea when we lost too many drivers in blazing infernos.

I care about two things -- will it be safe, and will there be good racing. If running ethanol makes that happen, do it. If running horse manure makes that happen, do it.

Re: Ignite Ethanol in USAC Silver Crown in 2012
 

Hey- sorry it took me this long to get back to you. But before I posted anything, I wanted to make sure to check with the car owner & engine builder (Darryl & Jeff), to make sure the information that I had was correct and approved by them to post.

Last year, we did an engine test on Brian Tyler's #21 car at Raceway Park with the Ignite fuel, using our standard race engine with the only updates for ethanol being nozzles and fuel system settings. We did not have access to a data acquisition system then, so we couldn't confidently post data-type results.

In the test that we just ran in Pensacola, we used one of our Silver Crown engines from last year. Folks from Ignite will tell you that the recommended compression ratio for their fuel is 14:1. Leading up to this test, a standard rebuild was done on this engine, and we used the same pistons from last season. After the rebuild, this engine did spend some time on an engine dyno (as most of them do), to tune some of the fuel settings before our test. This was done to help ensure that we were in the ballpark on fuel and could get accurate information while we ran the motor on the track.

-Kody

Re: Ignite Ethanol in USAC Silver Crown in 2012
 

Our silver crown tank is a 75 gallon size with a cut out underneath bringing it down to about 70. If the new minimum is 59 gallons then USAC did allow smaller tanks which reduce weight off the tail of the car giving them an advantage. The big money teams like Swanson's will buy the smaller tank and have already tested giving them more advantage.

On the positive side, our engine builder has built them before and said it is an easy/cheap change over. The free fuel will save a lot of money and we might be able to make a return to the series.

Re: Ignite Ethanol in USAC Silver Crown in 2012
 

Hi ThrowbackRacingTeam,

I am happy to hear that you might be able to return to the series, and that you expect the savings from the free fuel you'll receive next season to help cover the cost of the change-over.

I have included the link to the 2012 USAC Silver Crown series rule book: http://www.usacracing.com/assets/fil...ixB_Silver.pdf In USAC Rule Books, they mark their recent/new rule changes in red, and leave their standing rules in black. (I have attached a picture of the USAC rule book regarding Tail Tank size above in Post #29). You can see that the rule regarding tank size is in black, and thus was not changed for 2012 and the Ethanol fuel.

As I type this, I am talking to my car owner, and can guarantee you that we will not be purchasing smaller tanks or bladders for this season, and that we will continue to run our 75 gal. cells.

In regards to testing, USAC and Ignite fuels announced at the meeting during IMIS that they are working together to try to put together a test date for Silver Crown teams at Raceway Park in April.

Thanks for your interest,

Kody

Re: Ignite Ethanol in USAC Silver Crown in 2012
 

I recon that we are getting in at the right time! Free ethanol fuel??:9: Really? Thats frickin awsome!!:8:

Re: Ignite Ethanol in USAC Silver Crown in 2012
 

Hey Bomber,
David told me last night y'all are goin to pick up the car Friday... If y'all need any help at Indy or Duquoin let me know... You know I'm more than willing to lend y'all a hand...

Re: Ignite Ethanol in USAC Silver Crown in 2012
 

Come on down and join the party soldier! This gig should be a blast!
100 laps on 3 mile tracks. 100 laps on 2 half miles............YEA BUDDY!!!