Rear 4-pin Hub Question
 

I have a 4-pin setup on the car now but it looks as if the pressure plates have the bushing trying to pull through. Can the pins be replaced with studs and the hub be bolted to the wheel and eliminate the pressure plates or should I just buy splined centers? Thank you

Re: Rear 4-pin Hub Question
 

Are you referring to the wheel "spacer", as a "bushing"? You, or someone must be or has, way over tightened the axle nut at some time, if your talking about the "spacer" pulling thru the pressure plate, or one or the other is either soft, or undersized. Here's the way I look at it, if you go to splined centers, the cost is going to be on the up side, of what it may cost for new pressure plates, it that is the problem. Another fix, is as you said, remove the drive pins, and press in wheel studs, but I'd look for the "cause", before I did anything, just a suggestion. Bob:)

Re: Rear 4-pin Hub Question
 

I' m thinking someone over-tightened the nut before I bought the car. It was only the left side the it's doing it or if there's a size difference for 31 spline plates vs. 36 spline. Everthing else checks out fine. Any suggestions on where to buy new plates? I haven't had much luck finding them. All the spacers, hubs, and nuts are for a 2" axle and are like brand new so I'd like to stay with the current setup but finding parts (or just my rookieness on where to look) is being a little difficult.... Thank you, Pat

Re: Rear 4-pin Hub Question
 

First, let's establish what you're working on. If it is a midget, yes, it could have either 31 or 36 spline pieces, and they do not work together, if it's a mini-sprint, it could be lots of things, but most are either 27 spline, 1 3/4" axle, or 31 spline, 2" axle, and again, they don't work together, AT ALL!!! If it's either of the 2 machines, and has a 2" axle, I have new spacer kits in stock, I'm out of pressure plates at the moment. Look things over, and do some counting, you might just solve the issue very inexpensivly. Bob!:)

Re: Rear 4-pin Hub Question
 

It is a 2" 31-spline for my Mini-sprint. Let me know about the plates if you pick some up because I'd like the get this car right..... Thanks

Re: Rear 4-pin Hub Question
 

Really, you need to make an all out attempt to find out where your rear axle was made, Hyper, or whoever, so you can buy the needed parts from them, that way you'll have a better chance of getting matching parts, being a 4 pin, and a 31 spline, might be someone made some bad choices along the way to a 31 spline, 2" axle. Better find out now, while there is time, do some detective work, and find out. Bob!:)

Re: Rear 4-pin Hub Question
 

Many people still use the 4 pin hubs/wheels on splined axles because they have some older wheels that don't have removeable centers or the centers are on an oddball bolt pattern which makes it impossible to find a 31 spline wheel center to put in its place. After spending all the money they spent to convert to a 31 spline axle they wanted to find a way to retain all their wheel inventory. I have several buddies still using 4 or 6 pin wheels on mini sprints and 6pin wheels on midgets.

They may be heavier, but they are for sure cheaper than buying more, newer wheels. I have one buddy who still uses 6 pin on the midget because people are constantly giving him free wheels that they refuse to use anymore.

If I was in your position here is what I would do. Get the proper pressure plates for now so you are sure your set-up is correct. Make sure the plate has the same taper as the axle nut and the tapered spacers so they stay snug. Drill a 1/8 inch hole thru the end of the axle and put a safety pin in it. Having that safety pin will subconciously keep you from overtightening and can save you a lot of damage and embarrasment if you do forget to snug a wheel down.

Keep an eye out for used 31 spline wheels. If they are straight and have good meaty spines left in them and can be picked up for half of new price or less grab one here and there when you find them. As you damage your current wheels always replace them with splined wheels versus pin wheels... (pinwheels..haha)...Unless somebody offers you DIRT CHEAP or FREE used 4 pin wheels.

Once you get to the point that you have a few splined wheels you will find that you aren't really using the 4 pin wheels very often. At that point you can take the 4 pin hubs you still have, replace the drive pins with bolts, and bolt them into the wheels you are most likely to use, and treat them like a splined wheel for a spare/emergency situation....if your hubs don't have the taper in them you will still need to use the pressure plates so just sandwich them in with the bolts.

And as you start this process pay attention to what brand/bolt pattern your 4 pin centers are. If any of them are Weld or Sander...or if any of them use the same common bolt pattern as Weld or Sander, you have the option of picking up some used splined centers to put in them. You also have the option of using the halves as replacements should you bend any of the halves on your splined inventory.

With some hard core shopping around, a trip to the hardware store, and a little bit of elbow grease you would be amazed how inexpensively you can have more modern, lightweight wheels on your car. When I built my first sportsman midget 6 years ago I was dead set on having splined rears and direct mount fronts. I ended up finding a complet set of 6 pin beadlock Weld 3 piece wheels for $50 each. ( 2 rears/ 2 fronts). I picked up 2 used centers at the Chili Bowl for 20 bucks each and found a set of older DM hubs for 40 bucks that were intended to be used with one piece rims. I drilled relief holes in the front hubs for pinch bolts to recess into and spent a couple hours replacing/removing the 6 pin centers. I spent $280 total (plus a couple bucks for some new pinch bolts at the hardware store). Then later I was able to sell the 6pin centers for 10 bucks each.

So for less than 250 bucks I had beadlock wheels on all 4 corners, mud covers on the rightsides, splined rears and directmount fronts plus front hubs, and had pretty much the same stuff as the guys who buy brand new every year. When you consider a new Beadlock RR wheel costs at least $380 you can see why I was willing to shop around and use some elbow grease.

Re: Rear 4-pin Hub Question
 

Here's a picture of what I'm talking about. The one w/ the spacer stuck in it is off the left rear. The axle has the safety pin holes drilled in the ends about 1/4 in from the edge of the tube.

Re: Rear 4-pin Hub Question
 

I could be wrong but I would guess the spacer was slightly bent or had a burr on it...then it was probably over tightened which caused it to get stuck...I would for sure replace both the spacer and pressure plate if I was you....Continued use could cause damage to the splines on the axle...especially if it causes the wheel to be out of balance or out of square when mounted.

Re: Rear 4-pin Hub Question
 

You got it right, Darnall, that's what I did, but you got to remember, lots of these newbies aren't that familiar with what they've gotten into, so all they know is NEW stuff. I had a friend that was hell bent and whiskey bound, he was going to have all splined wheels for his midget, he didn't want any part of those "adapter" hubs for 6 pin wheels, so I bought his 6 pin wheels, and a set of hubs, and had very little in money in them, but he was on the brink of going under. I bought a couple of used, splined center wheels, but after using them a while, I weighed them, and now I'm back to 6 pin wheels again, I don't have a show car, and the shine doesn't last long anyway, and with no pit crew to help during the week, shiney wheels don't mean much. I've still got a bunch of Halibrand magnesium wheels, and I still use them a lot, the less a wheel weighs, the easier it is to get moving, and to me, that's a big part of it, plus being strong enough to take a bang or 2, those old mag wheels will crack, or break, and I can repair them, but if you get very much of a bend in an aluminum wheel, it's usually ready for the pile going with the beer cans! Bob!:)

---------- Post added at 11:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:07 AM ----------

Looks like someone has done some machining on those pressure plates, they aren't tapered, for the spacer, they're cut straight in, like for a non tapered spacer, plus they've been modified for 4 pin, I'd get me a pair of new pressure plates, looks like the other stuff is OK. Bob!:)

Re: Rear 4-pin Hub Question
 

Sounds good to me. I appreciate all the info and advice. I'll start hunting for some plates (new or used). The rest of the car is getting rubbed down with Never-Dul. I agree that new parts are flashy, but I'm not able to blow money like that. I'm just a one man band.....lol If ya happen to run across a set, look me up. Thank you

Re: Rear 4-pin Hub Question
 

Good luck finding pressure plate for your combo, someone has jury rigged what you have now, and myself, I haven't seen any 4 pin adapters, for 2" splined axles, that's why you got what you got. Where are you located, I'd say your best bet, is to find someone to machine you a pair, I could do it here, but I'd probably need your old ones, to make sure how to make them fit. You might get lucky and find some, but I doubt it. Bob!:)

Re: Rear 4-pin Hub Question
 

It's kinda ironic you say that... I looked at them closer today and noticed that it appears someone welded material on the inside and attemped to dremal a surface to have the spacer rest on.

Re: Rear 4-pin Hub Question
 

Yeh, I saw that also, I found some spacers on ebay, they should fit your 4 pin hubs,wheels, and all you'll need to do is have someone chuck them in a lathe, and add the taper in them, should be an easy fix. I'll PM you the item number! Bob!:)

---------- Post added at 7:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 7:10 PM ----------

And, it wasn't "ironic", I saw it first off.

Re: Rear 4-pin Hub Question
 

Well played Sir...... Thanks for the help!!!

Re: Rear 4-pin Hub Question
 

Here is my 2 cents on this from my experience. In dealing w/six pin wheel and pressure plates I have come across theses issues. Six pin wheels have different thicknesses (center thickness) per various manufacturers. This will result in the wheel being too thin between the plates and will not get a proper crush when tightened, leaving the wheel actually loose. It will gual (sp) the surfaces including the cone spacers. With this I will use a flat spacer plate between the hub & wheel or the pressure plate and the outside face of the wheel to fill which will allow it to be tightened correctly. The other issue is the manufacturers also do not all use the same tapper on the spacer hub & plate assembly, spacer cones & axel nuts. It is important to be sure the tapper of the axel nuts match the tapper of your pressure plate & cone spacers. The difference in the tapper angles will wear each other out not having a matching tapper angle. This will get you in trouble due to stuff working itself tight or loose, plus destroying the mating surfaces. It is also very important to not get dirt on the surfaces. Once they get chewed up it is not easy to save them, it is normally junk. Hope this may help

Mike L.

Re: Rear 4-pin Hub Question
 

New plates are done and all machining is complete. Want to send a special public Thank you to TQ29M for his idea and it was a great one!!!! Very nice setup now.....Machined taper and bored for hub to slip in backside to accomodate different wheel center thicknesses. Thank you for your help!!!! Pat:6: