National Lightning Sprint Car Rules
 

Interesting topic going on on FB for lightning sprints.


http://www.facebook.com/pages/Nation...528778?sk=wall

Re: National Lightning Sprint Car Rules
 

They would probably get more hits on "IOW". Sounds like a couple of guys wishing they could make the 1000cc Sprint world perfect. By the time they are done they will have a 250 page rule book that makes sense to no one. The best way to keep racing less expensive is to keep the rule book short.

There is also only so many 1000 cc motors out there, when everybody has to have one that will make them more expensive and harder to find. The 600 and 750 and even 1200 and 1400 cc motors work well in these cars. We either need a class or a way to handicap these motors into use to keep the sport in-expensive.

The guy up in "Canada" who invented the name "lightning Sprint" also chose 750cc motors instead of 1000 or 1200 cc motors. If you Ebay for 750cc motors they are cheap because nobody wants them the same holds true for 1200 and 1400 cc motors. The person who figures out how to put all of these motors together and make a competive class will have really done something. The reason we raced 600 cc motors back in the 80's and 90's is they were a lot cheaper than the all out 1200cc motors. Then a guy invented the sidewinder and made the cost of 600cc motors go up. So we went to 1000cc motors. Now they make a 1000cc sidewinders so we had better be looking for another motor pretty soon.

Not sure how much intrest this has. Lots of views on here, few comments on FB I will throw in my 2cents in.

1. Motor: stock 1000cc, no non oem parts added or taken out internally, no material added or taken off cases and head. Gas or Alky weight 925#

2. Motor: Any motor over1000cc or any mod's Gas or Alky 975#

3. Safety: Bladder must be used, approved head and neck restraint system must be used.
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Re: National Lightning Sprint Car Rules
 

Re: National Lightning Sprint Car Rules
 

You know,,,,,, it still amazes me that someone who has nothing to add to a topic wants to jump in. If you have nothing to add DONT. There are plenty of other topics on here you MITE be qualified to respond to Jim :26::26::26:

Re: National Lightning Sprint Car Rules
 

Some newer motors have balance shafts in them. These things are blown motors waiting to happen. Our motors are making almost 200 HP stock right off the bike, the next 20 HP is going to cost you 10 grand that would be $500.00 per HP. I dont know about you but it's a job hooking up my 200 HP right now.

If I was rich I would spend my money on Chassis, Tires, and Shocks in that order. If you wan't to spend another $10,000.00 in your motor go right a head we have been beating these guys for years. If you exit the turn 5mph faster than the other guy you will probably be 10 mph faster than him going into the next turn. If you want to see why the other guy is faster just clock his time in the turn that is usually where he makes his time. Most of this cheating people see is usually all in "The set up of the car" and drivers ability to stay hooked up.

Any time you make a motor rule it is probably going cost some one more money. Probably the best motor rule is stock apearing on the outside.

We need to spend more time helping the new guy's out and getting them up to speed more quickly. No body wants to be an also ran.
"We" keep on racing because we enjoy it and we know we can run up front at any given race. If a new racer doesn't see some success they usually quit and we lost another racer.

Keep the rules simple, don't try to keep the rich guy out, and help the newer people along the best you can. If you want to handicap do it with weight and by all means "HAVE FUN"

By the way "racerJIM" we do it with a whole lot less. How can we take a little old 200 hp motor and run with a 350 hp motor in the same kind of car?
We do it with "CHAIN and SPROCKETS". I think the Indy 500 was even won by a chain drive car once or twice. The HP loss of the drive shaft and rear end gears eat up about that much horsepower. WE just so high tec I can't stand it.:8:

Re: National Lightning Sprint Car Rules
 

I went back to check on "racerjim2". This guy can say anything he likes about race cars and it ok by me. For anyone wanting to study the true history of our sport this guy has "the" web site. GOOGLE
"Jimmy's old time racing photos" . Jim if you are ever around where we are racing our "1000cc sprint" I would sure like to meet you and maybe try to convince you that a race car doesn't realy need a driveshaft.


DAD
DAD'S MUFFLER SHOP #37 1000cc Sprint :32:
ps. I used to work with ol Roy Robbins

Re: National Lightning Sprint Car Rules
 

Originally Posted by DAD:
I went back to check on "racerjim2". This guy can say anything he likes about race cars and it ok by me. For anyone wanting to study the true history of our sport this guy has "the" web site. GOOGLE
"Jimmy's old time racing photos" . Jim if you are ever around where we are racing our "1000cc sprint" I would sure like to meet you and maybe try to convince you that a race car doesn't realy need a driveshaft.

Jim has THE BEST site on the net when it comes to racing history and nostalgia...he even had one of my old "SKEETER CARS" from the '60-'70s on there

]http://jimmiesoldtimeracing.mywowbb.com/

Re: National Lightning Sprint Car Rules
 

Re: National Lightning Sprint Car Rules
 

I don't think anyone is looking for a "250 page" rule book nor should there be one required. Common sense rules. I think this whole thing was generated to standardize weights and get this fuel situation "understood" and under control. Are all groups rules the same. Hell no. Could they be? Maybe? Let's start out only talking the 1000cc class/motors. Grandfather out the larger existing motors over time and by weight allowances. Basic chassis rules and safety rules could easily be agreed to. This weight and fuel situation is what needs to be addressed for standardization. Tire rules could boil down to a simple durometer check after the race is over. Check it after the heats and the feature. Maybe mandate the same tire for both races unless it is damaged and then replaced with the approval of the race director? If a group has a tire deal going with a manufacturer, that can be addressed locally and anyone going there will be on their own to comply but a "suggested" minimum tire durometer is a good start. Now we have the issue of alky versus gas. Somehow, it has been determined that alky is has as unfair advantage. Obviously, I disagree if you read the posts on the facebook discussion. I was simply asking for reasoning that puts unjust amounts of weight on alky cars. I have yet to see anyone produce documented information that validates this. A produced unbaised dyno test shows a 3-4 hp gain at certain rpm ranges. Is that enough to warrant the amount of weight some groups are trying to add? The idea that alky is undermined "to reduce costs" has been debunked repeatedly. While the initial cost is minor ($350-$750 one time investment) it is not that much more expensive than the gas guys buying aftermarket power commanders and elaborate radiators and fans. I would just like to see some standardizations on fuel and reasoning behind it.

Weight.........keep it simple. One weight for either fuel provided it is that 1000cc motor rule we are all trying to work toward. Some racers are running midget style cars while some are running "specific built" cars for this class. Obviously those cars are going to be slightly lighter and mainly........cheaper. They are just as safe especially since here in the midwest, we run on 3/8 miles or less. Usually 1/4 miles. Anyway...to each his own. The 925# minimum weight (winged) worked for years in various groups. Personally......I get aggrevated when I see the 600's faster than our class because we are adding so much weight to our cars. How much we need to slow these cars down to see how many racers we can push toward that 600 class? Or any other class for that matter? I haven't noticed any other class out there that runs a mixture of gas and alky cars differentiating weights to compensate for the type of fuel.....why this class?

Motors...........Stock appearing sounds convienent but I think we all know.......that can get expensive. Most of us have a clue what can get spent INSIDE a motor. Tech is an ugly, ugly word but if you want to control costs, maybe box stock is the way to go? Already have heard of a gas motor that has about $7000 added to it internally coupled with an aftermarket ignition/fuel system. So we all know there probably are quite a few motors out there with something in between that and stock "costs" already.

I am passionate about this class since I have been involved since 1986 and one thing I am EXTREMELY thankful for........The group I run with, Midwest Lightning Sprints, has stuck by their guns and maintained reasonable and fair rules for all. I just don't want to deal with this gas/alky cluster f&#% here. Besides..........Years ago, there was a National Organization (National Outlaw Minisprint Association) that headed this class in the right direction and helped maintain some degree of sanity. No one expects this to be to a way to control "local" racing but it's more for the big races throughout the year that has the potential to draw some travelers. Like National races or "special races" at pre and post season so everyone know what they are driving into. That is if the economy lets any of us actually travel........

Re: National Lightning Sprint Car Rules
 

These are the 2012 Rules for Florida....as simple as I can make them and each be competative

2012 Florida Winternationals
Lightning Sprint Rules

MOTOR: STOCK!!!!!!!!!!!

Four (4) cylinder, four (4) cycle motorcycle engine only. STOCK bore and stroke.
750/1000/1205 maximum Chain Driven, 1352cc MAX with a quick change....motors will be teched
Electric self starting, no push starting allowed and must be able to drive off under on power

STOCK head, cylinder and crankcase. "no titanum parts anywhere" unless they come STOCK!!
ANY PARTS other then those that came STOCK specfic for that engine will be demed ILLEGAL
You are not allowed to do anything to the engine other then change oil pan and pick-up
STOCK...STOCK...STOCK... We have hired a great techman for the winternationals and HE will DETERMINE GO or NO GO....PERIOD!!

FUEL: ANY FUEL Gas/Alcohol/E85

Six (6) inch offset-measured C/L of motor and C/L of frame.

NO in cockpit adjustments of any kind STRICTLY enforced.


CHASSIS:

UPRIGHT CHASSIS ONLY

Roll cage - minimum 11/4 inch OD X .095 wall 4130n tubing.

Driver minimum head clearance 3 inches measured to the top of the cage.

Wheelbase: Min. 63 inches - Max. 72 inches.

Car to resemble a sprint car, particularly the hood and tail NO SQUARE TAILS NO EXTRA SIDE BOARDS ON ROLL CAGE. Visor is allowed . No carbon fiber or titanium allowed.

Drivers feet required to be behind the motor.

Hydraulic brakes capable of sliding rear wheels required.

Steering gear mandatory (rack and pinion steering IS allowed)

Fuel tank MUST HAVE A BLADDER ...must be well secured behind the driver and under the body tail piece. Plastic tanks MUST BE incased with a metal container to prevent puncure and aluminum tanks are not allowed nor are tail tanks WITHOUT a bladder (GAS OR ALCOHOL).

Bumpers and nerf bars required. Nerf bars cannot be wider than the tires.

Mufflers (optional) per track specifications.

Gasoline/Alcohol/E85 fuel only. Pump gas 93 octane max. No oxygen booster. Top end oil additives allowed. MUST have fuel shut off at on the right side of tail tank PAINTED RED.

Chain must be properly guarded and for quick change cars Drive line MUST have a hoop to protect the driver and fuel tank.

Wheels must be 13” diameter ONLY. Tires are to be a minimum 62” circumference and a maximum of 84”, Tires may be of any make RIGHT REAR must punch 40 compound.

Top wing not to exceed 16 square feet, Nose wings acceptable.

WEIGHT:

1000cc 950 lbs. with driver for winged events, 925 lbs. for non-winged.

1205cc 975 lbs. with driver for winged events, 950 lbs. for non-winged

1352cc/with quick change only 1050 lbs. with driver for winged events, 1025 lbs. for non-winged

600/750cc UPRIGHT cars min. weight with driver is 875 lbs, for winged and 850 lbs for non-winged

Gas: 25# less across the board

NUMBERS must be on both sides of tank and nose

We will check the weights to make sure they are safely placed attached to the car. You must have them bolted to the chassis, you CANNOT use hose clamps or plastic ties to hold them on the car. You will be inspected and must be painted white and have your # CLEARLY on each piece of weight

NO TITANIUM PARTS OF ANY KIND ON CAR UNLESS THEY COME STOCK IN THE ENGINE

Re: National Lightning Sprint Car Rules
 

You get way too up tight thinking about guys spending $7000.00 inside their engines. If they want to do that and run for a $500.00 to win race, then more power to them. I have raced with my share of Orient express and Hank Scott motors in the past. I have also been at the track to the wee small hours in the morning taking my engine apart so some guy that can't even read a mike looked on trying to see how I was cheating. I don't enjoy spending money on a $1500.00 Ebay motor let alone a $10,000.00 Hank Scott Hand-granade. Some of the newer 1000cc motors are back to using balancer shafts. If you don't take them out they will be a short life motor, you have to change something on the inside.

We have been "playing" and that is the term I meant to use with "MINI-SPRINTS" when that was the only term used to describe them. The biggest thing that controls the speed of these other than setup is "weight". When we started our driver weighed 80 lbs. We were very fast and when he didn't screw up we did real well. The minimum weight then was I think 800 lbs. and we had to add weight to race. There were a lot of car and drivers then that weighed well over 1000 lbs. I did not think that was right back then and said so. I have been raising hell for better than 20 some years now trying to get the weight up to a place where a normal size person would be able to at least run up front every once in a while. My driver now weighs about 240 lbs, thank God his driving skills have improved with his weight. We are still "Playing" If I was racing for a real I guess I would have to fire my son, and find a skinny driver to race with.

Now what about that 240 lb guy just getting into "playing" with MINI-SPRINTS. With a light weight car we cross the scale at about 1050 lbs with a wing at the end of a race. Does this 240 lb. guy have a chance to run up front, I don't think so he gets in to racing and right back out again.

The guy's up north are already playing with 1000cc sidewinders. They are much **lighter** than us we ain't going to out run them we might out handle or out drive them but we can't beat them.

The answer again is weight, it always has been weight, we work with a limited amount of hp and handling power. The lighter the object the better it goes around turns "something to do with one of Newtons laws". Twenty five pounds makes a big difference in one of these things, (people spend thousands of dollars with a 410 to save a few ounces) you don't see much difference at top speed but the difference is how long it takes to get to top speed. That is one reason everybody tries to win the race on the first lap, the lighter guys simply out drag the heavy cars to the first turn and the race is over.

I am kind of partial to MMSA rules. We got Bill to soften his weight for the alky weight limit and since we were already heavy we could use the4 more hp. Somebody must have blew a bunch of smoke up Jerry's arse and told him that the baddest motor out there was a boat anchor zx12 and alky was good for at least 30 hp. Alky is great at keeping our motor temp's down and is much safer in a crash, but it also requires more fuel per race (we start the race about 10 lbs heavier just because we need more fuel, but we threw our fan away and use a smaller radiator. In the old days they figured it took twice as much alky as gasoline to run an engine and it did, but with todays modern electronic injection it's more like 40 or 50 percent or about a gallon or so more fuel per race.

Keep in mind that you are still "playing" with these things and if you are not playing you are in the wrong sport. You can't stop a person from spending money. This board is full of people selling glittering bull s$%*! to make racers faster if they want to spent their money they have the right to do so. Get serious about WEIGHT! Weigh all of your cars find a weight average You already know what the minimum weight will be I see people going back and forth to the scales so they can just make the weight limit, this makes me a little sad because I don't have to do this anymore. If you had a realistic weight (skewed toward the heavy side cars ) everybody would have to be doing the scale thing, and everybody would have a better chance of runing up front. :8:

Re: National Lightning Sprint Car Rules
 

On the weight deal i busted but on my car and did my homework on shaving weight... Old 94 bailey and a 215lbs driver i rolled over the scales in peoria at 910lbs w/2 gallons of fuel..WHICH kinda surprised me.. Saldanas fuel forward 14 gal bladder tank cut off a boatload...Plus other stuff i did...VERY time consuming...

Re: National Lightning Sprint Car Rules
 

Originally Posted by DAD:
You get way too up tight thinking about guys spending $7000.00 inside their engines.

I have been raising hell for better than 20 some years now trying to get the weight up to a place where a normal size person would be able to at least run up front every once in a while. My driver now weighs about 240 lbs, thank God his driving skills have improved with his weight. We are still "Playing" If I was racing for a real I guess I would have to fire my son, and find a skinny driver to race with.

Now what about that 240 lb guy just getting into "playing" with MINI-SPRINTS. With a light weight car we cross the scale at about 1050 lbs with a wing at the end of a race. Does this 240 lb. guy have a chance to run up front, I don't think so he gets in to racing and right back out again.

I am kind of partial to MMSA rules.

Dad Are you speaking about the Florida winternational rules?
I have been in direct contact with Bill and have followed his rules some what close...specially weight....Here are the ....

MMSA weight rules:

Cars using alcohol/methanol and ethanol fuel must weigh a min. of
935 lbs. with driver for winged events, 900 lbs. for non-winged.

cars on gas weight will remain at 900 lbs. for winged races with driver and reduced to 865 lbs. for non-winged.

600cc cars min. weight with driver is 875 lbs, for winged and 840 lbs for non-winged.

SSLS weight rule:
1000cc 950 lbs. with driver for winged events, 925 lbs. for non-winged.

1205cc 1025 lbs. with driver for winged events, 1000 lbs. for non-winged

1352cc/with quick change ONLY 1100 lbs. with driver for winged events, 1075 lbs. for non-winged

600/750cc UPRIGHT cars min. weight with driver is 875 lbs, for winged and 850 lbs for non-winged

The same for gas/alky/E-85

QUOTE:"My driver now weighs about 240 lbs, thank God his driving skills have improved with his weight."

The Southern States Lightning Sprints Series Champion weight 280 and has 8 wins W/O the wing....that is why I am such a proponent of non wing racing....it brings everyone closer and you can actually use the drivers weight to you advantage....

you will never every please everyone and don't even try to be perfect (we all know what happen to the last perfect guy on earth) less just RACE have fun and here are the rules...you can come race or you stay up north and freeze your butts off in Feb....oh and Dad that was just a general statement NOT intended toward you...I was in Indiana for 1 winter and that was all it took for me to come my butt back to Florida...LOL

Re: National Lightning Sprint Car Rules
 

:5:WHAT IF THE HYBUSA'S ARE FASTER. The cost of 1000 cc sprints went up another $2500.00 in Florida? and we change the name to 1400cc (L*******G) sprints.

The red fuel shut off valve is new and that is going to take a little rigging.

My big fear is some guys are controlling their fuel pump with a drivers switch or kill switch. If they crash and get knocked out and if that fuel line breaks these pumps just keep on pumping fuel until they are turned off. We need to be sure the pump is controlled either by a oil pres switch or the ecm to make sure they turn off when and if the motor stops running.

We still run a midget chassis and that darned old left rear midget nerf bar stick out about 2" past our left rear tire how does this pose a safety problem and if it does should we notify USAC and POWERI?

I'm getting out my old R/C stuff so I can adjust my shocks from the grand stands again. We actually raced with a guy several years ago that thought we were doing that. So what did I do Put a little antena on my wing.

You are also getting a little carried away with the bladder thing . Most of the little fuel cells that fit under the tail don't have a bladder and you can't buy one for them that I know of. A tank and bladder is a little over $1000.00. I know of several racers that had to buy a new tank and bladder because they were just running tail tanks. :6:

Re: National Lightning Sprint Car Rules
 

Originally Posted by STUMPS88:
On the weight deal i busted but on my car and did my homework on shaving weight... Old 94 bailey and a 215lbs driver i rolled over the scales in peoria at 910lbs w/2 gallons of fuel..WHICH kinda surprised me.. Saldanas fuel forward 14 gal bladder tank cut off a boatload...Plus other stuff i did...VERY time consuming...

This is a SAFETY issue...it is WAY SAFER and less expensive to add weight then to try to trim weight off a car....weight is speed...Ferkle spent one entire winter drilling out bolt centers and coping the ends just to save 8.3 pounds back in the late '80s for the Florida trip...1st nite out sheered one of those bolts and destroyed the car..so much for saving weight!!!

Re: National Lightning Sprint Car Rules
 

Stump88 if you got any of those old 14 gal tanksand cells laying around I could sure use one. We usualy run about 5 or 6 gals of alky for a 20 lap race. I really don't see the need for a cell with this much fuel but then that is just my thinking. If you run 19 gal's a cell is a good idea.

Back in the day Floyd built what he called his light weight chassis. We raced with a guy that I know bought 3 of those frames in one year. Every time he flipped the thing just folded up.

Re: National Lightning Sprint Car Rules
 

It is far from safe to add weight to a car, have you ever seen a car in a hard crash & that weight go flying into the grandstands? I have & luckily nobody was injured that time, these chassis are not designed to have large amounts of weight bolted to them either & I have seen tubes ripped out of the chassis in hard crashes because of it. I don't know what your hard on is for titanium or carbon fiber either if you have a weight rule? I understand cost cutting & trying to further the sport but when you create a huge rule book that isn't necessary & teching after the races that takes longer than the entire night of racing you are not going to bring people into the sport. I have no issues with the stock engine rule if there can be an easy way to tech them, I however do have a problem with some idiot taking my motor apart at the end of the night when he doesn't know up from down.

---------- Post added at 5:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 5:28 PM ----------

this is all about cost cutting but I haven't seen anybody say anything about eliminating the $3000 shock's, we can talk about buying a titanium bolt that will last just about forever but god forbid we talk about the shocks that get torn off anytime you crash!

Re: National Lightning Sprint Car Rules
 

we called them "SNOW BIRDS". Sell out go south miss the kids sell out again and come back north, this time broke.

Hard to make a good race track on sand wonder how much it would cost to bring 10,000 truck loads of Blomington clay down there so you could make a really good race track. Good question to pose to Bubba.

I just love this old dead horse.

---------- Post added at 6:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 6:36 PM ----------

Get 1/4" lead plate cut to fit bottom of drivers seat and SIT ON IT. It is soft and will mold to your butt much like a good pair of shoes. It aint going no place.

Re: National Lightning Sprint Car Rules
 

can you get 1 that weighs 100lbs? Sounds like thats what stumps needs. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there shouldn't be a weight rule just that we shouldn't get carried away adding a ton of weight to them. Sure small amounts can be added safely but 50lbs is a little hard to add safely.

Re: National Lightning Sprint Car Rules
 

PP Outlaw much better you and Bill and Jerry and the other race directors to sit around and read all of this bull, then cull out the good from the bad and make the rules according to what you see as fair and good for the sport. I can still remember going to "CLUB" meetings and hearing every body trying to get the rules so that the rules favored them. I can still see this little 90pound driver standing up and wanting not to raise the weight rule. Then the alky deal, and what about electronic injection we could never go to that just too expensive.

Without a doubt rules are much better left to one person with the desire to make things better for everyone. Usually my questions will be just to keep you guys thinking and bringing some things to light that you may not see by being up so close. I'm trying to be a friend of the court.:)

---------- Post added at 7:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 7:12 PM ----------

I have an ultrasonic thickness gauge. I have left it home in the past because I didn't want to stir things up. The best way to add weight to a car is with the proper thicknes tubing. You can get these things on Ebay for couple hundred bucks now. I loaned it to a friend for a open wheel modified race 2 years ago and after checking several cars the race director told him to put the darned thing up. Seems like most of the cars used too thin tubing in the roll bar and he wouldn't be able to have a race because he would DQ most of his racers.:17:

Re: National Lightning Sprint Car Rules
 

I support this post 100%. Box stock motors are available and need little to convert to mini sprint racing. Thanks for your comments.

Re: National Lightning Sprint Car Rules
 

I don't support the ultra high weight rules, alot of people have no idea how to bolt weight to a car properly. Last year at Lawrenceburg we nearly ruined a frame the first night out after hitting a chunk of lead at 100+ mph.

Re: National Lightning Sprint Car Rules
 

well hell less just RUN WHAT CHA BRUNG and hope ya brung enough...$$$ no problem EVERYONE has plenty of them!!! :15:

Re: National Lightning Sprint Car Rules
 

Originally Posted by DAD:
If I was rich I would spend my money on Chassis, Tires, and Shocks in that order. If you wan't to spend another $10,000.00 in your motor go right a head we have been beating these guys for years. If you exit the turn 5mph faster than the other guy you will probably be 10 mph faster than him going into the next turn. If you want to see why the other guy is faster just clock his time in the turn that is usually where he makes his time. Most of this cheating people see is usually all in "The set up of the car" and drivers ability to stay hooked up.

Any time you make a motor rule it is probably going cost some one more money. Probably the best motor rule is stock apearing on the outside.

We need to spend more time helping the new guy's out and getting them up to speed more quickly. No body wants to be an also ran.
"We" keep on racing because we enjoy it and we know we can run up front at any given race. If a new racer doesn't see some success they usually quit and we lost another racer.

Keep the rules simple, don't try to keep the rich guy out, and help the newer people along the best you can. If you want to handicap do it with weight and by all means "HAVE FUN":8:

I could not agree more, in fact this should be the case for ALL open wheel racing.

Re: National Lightning Sprint Car Rules
 

one quick an easy way to add weight is replace floor pan with 1/2" thick steel plate...weighs about 50#....steel weighs .2836 pds/cubic inch

Re: National Lightning Sprint Car Rules
 

Originally Posted by utex28:

[/COLOR]this is all about cost cutting but I haven't seen anybody say anything about eliminating the $3000 shock's, we can talk about buying a titanium bolt that will last just about forever but god forbid we talk about the shocks that get torn off anytime you crash!

This is my shock rule for next year

SHOCKS:
as of now any shock or shock package...
There will be a shock package run for 2012 to keep the cost down a ASB Pro Shock adjustable rebound at $185.00 each STAMPED with SSLS

Shocks have become the most expensive thing you can add on these cars up to $1000.00 per shock.. [size] we (SSLSS) fill the need to eliminate this cost BEFORE it gets out of hand

---------- Post added at 11:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:27 PM ----------

Originally Posted by jimbob5m:
one quick an easy way to add weight is replace floor pan with 1/2" thick steel plate...weighs about 50#....steel weighs .2836 pds/cubic inch

they can also weld tabs for the weight to bolt to...if the rules is against you you will complain.... if the rule is in your favor you will be ok with it.... so sometimes you have to take the BAD with the GOOD

Re: National Lightning Sprint Car Rules
 

After reading all of these post I wonder where a mechanical fuel injection system fits into this picture. My goal is to run E-85 with MMSA and by the time I get my car ready in 2013 ILSS will supposedly be running gas only. After reading all the rule discussion I hate to spend the money on a mechanical fuel injection system if I can't use it. I have the stock EFI off the bike but by the time I spend all the money on conversions I might as well spend a little extra on the mechanical injection to run with both groups. :22:

Re: National Lightning Sprint Car Rules
 

Royal I dont think you have to worry about this being official. I may be one of the few lightning sprint drivers that travles. I bounce from MMSA, ILSA, MLS and plan on going to WIMS and RMLSA next year. Unless you see the racers come up with a firm plan and demand the groups follow it this is just a discussion. But want sparked it was ILSA rule next year of 1000# on ALKY cars vs #925 gas. Here is the dyno sheet for everyone to see how close gas and alky are. Several of us on here feel in consistency of rules around the country is hurting this sport. Tulsa shoot out would be the best place to hold a racers meeting if anyone was series about coming up with some realistic rules package for these cars so someone can go from Calf. to NY and know they are legal and competitive.

Re: National Lightning Sprint Car Rules
 

****IT'S NOT THE SIZE OF YOUR SHOCK BUT HOW YOU USE IT !**** Probably of all the go fast glittering BULL S#@T out there I would miss my adjustable shocks the most. We have used them since about the time ARS first brought them out in the 90's. We used to go racing with 10 or 12 shocks on the trailer wall and change shocks as required. Sometimes changing shocks worked sometimes it didn't. Now we go to the track with the 4 shocks on the car 2 remote adjust and 2 external adjustable. We now do the work of those dozen shocks with these 4. I can make the point that these 4 are cheeper to own in the long run than owning 8 more less expensive shocks. Put in the hands of a driver that know the way to turn them, they also helps in the last few laps of the race.

We crashed once and threw the right front shocks up into the stands at Little Salem. Sent it back to ARS they rebuilt it and put it back together for $125.00 and it was good as new. Sometime quality is really less expensive to own and race with than cheap throw away stuff.

When ARS first brought out the cockpit adjustable left rear shock a friend of mine who raced USAC Midgets was one of the first to get them. He had a young high profile driver driving for him and almost every race the driver would come in with the shocks turned in the wrong direction. To compesate for this my friend made the adjustment before the race un-hooked the cable to the shock and let the young driver turn the knob all he wanted. :3:

I would much rather do away with our super-trick paint job and graphics than our adjustable shocks.

Re: National Lightning Sprint Car Rules
 

If they allow alky its hard not to allow mechanical injection. There would be to many stipulations on the Stock converted alky injection..
Ie. power commanders, Hot boxes, remapped stock boxes, aftermarket velocity stacks, after market air cleaners.... etc

Some say why dont we just make it stock gas only.... too many safty concerns, engine longivity... etc

No place to stop and too hard to regulate.

Open Injection rules.

Stock Engines.

period.

Dad says you can go on alky for $800, and you probabley can, but people wont stop there.. Legal Electronic Alky Fuel injection can go up too $6,000.. Atleast 3-6 guys have it in our area.. Mechanical Injection around $4,000...

Leave it open. Let them run what they want..

Re: National Lightning Sprint Car Rules
 

Originally Posted by DAD:
****IT'S NOT THE SIZE OF YOUR SHOCK BUT HOW YOU USE IT !**** Probably of all the go fast glittering BULL S#@T out there I would miss my adjustable shocks the most. We have used them since about the time ARS first brought them out in the 90's. We used to go racing with 10 or 12 shocks on the trailer wall and change shocks as required. I can make the point that these 4 are cheeper to own in the long run than owning 8 more less expensive shocks.
We crashed once and threw the right front shocks up into the stands at Little Salem. Sent it back to ARS they rebuilt it and put it back together for $125.00 and it was good as new..
.

Dad that is EXACTLY why I went to the ABS Pro adjustable instead of the straight up shocks...no cannister no remote adjust, rebound adjust only cause you can take 6 shocks and eliminate 12 an be in the ball park...I am a firm believer that when you roll onto the track ...what you have is what you got...NO COCKPIT ADJUSTMENTS PERIOD

Re: National Lightning Sprint Car Rules
 

I loves to spend MONEY!

DAD

I would like the weight around 975 lbs. Probably get "Doug" to take me to Weight Watchers again and loose a little weight.

I don't much care what you do to your motor. We get about 3 or 4 years out of a stock one by that time they got a better motor out there again anyhow. Just keep stock bore and stroke in place easy enough to tec. I was told I was beat by a guy running "nitrous" at one time that explains why he blew up about every 4 or 5 races.

I would miss my adjustable shocks but could get by I guess.

Tires is kinda of dumb once had this tec guy "PUNCH" my tire in the middle of the tread with about 6psi in the tire and he told me my brand new tire was too soft. Went out to the edge and checked fine. You aint going to get much volume discount from tire co but if a guy was dumb enough to handle the tire and sell at cost I would probably buy from him.

I would sure work on the deal with fuel pumps:::

WHEN MOTOR STOPS FUEL PUMP MUST ALSO STOPS AND NOT WORRY ABOUT A SHUT OFF VALVE. THIS RULE SHOULD ALSO GO FOR ELECTRO MECHANICAL TYPE SYSTEMS.

We would be glad to help people get changed over to "alky" either in house or phone in questions.

Wonder why Tony would rather we run on alky at the "RUMBLE"?

DAD

Re: National Lightning Sprint Car Rules
 

First........I agree.......no cockpit adjustable anything. Give it your best shot and drive the friggin' car. You can have adjustable shocks to eliminate so many in the trailer but adjust them before you go out on the track.

Secondly......Someone mentioned the light guys want lighter weight rules and the heavier guys want heavier weight rules. All I can say to that is I weigh 215#. I run a "specific built" Lightning Sprint. Not a midget conversion. I sincerely think it is absolutely absurd that a person of my weight has to add roughly 50# to my car to make that 970# rule or roughly 80# to make the discussed 1000# rule. According to the produced unbaised dyno pull with the R-1 the gas unit has about the same hp/torque at the "workable" rpms. I truly think it's time for the those stating alky is an unfair advantage to produce some actual unbaised facts stating their case. Incidently, we had our rules meeting the other day and if I am not mistaken, our race director stated through out the year the gas and alky cars crossing the scales averaged 930-935#. Both fuels won features and placed in the top 5 pretty equally. So it seems the old 925# rule still works for us. I would like to know what happened with some of these other groups that makes them think that alky is "satan's work" and it will evidently destroy our class?

I will type what everyone is thinking.........."Hey nemrod, don't race if you don't like the rules." Yep......I could easily do that and simply race in my little safe haven here and be as happy as a clam. I just see this fuel/weight issue travelling like a cancer. I have yet to see anyone present any unbaised documentation justifying this alky penalty crusade. The main thing........I don't want it to contaminate the whole Lightning Sprint community. I want to have the option to actually go to some of the pre and post season "special" races and not have to figure out a way to bolt boat loads of unsafe weight on my car. I want us to get the maximum out of our cars and reflect the speeds these cars are capable off so we can maximize the appeal. Not weight them down, make them unsafe and obviously slower. Anyway........I truly think "special" races with inflated purses are the next step to promote and grow this class. This doesn't have to effect "local racing" but something needs to be done to standardize the "National or special" races.

Re: National Lightning Sprint Car Rules
 

Hell I like regular races with inflated purses.:22:

Re: National Lightning Sprint Car Rules
 

Originally Posted by DAD:
Hell I like regular races with inflated purses.:22:

IF the tracks would pay it I would pass it right along Dad!!!


these are the weights for gas/alky/E85 OW44

WEIGHT:

1000cc 950 lbs. with driver for winged events, 925 lbs. for non-winged.

1205cc 975 lbs. with driver for winged events, 950 lbs. for non-winged

1352cc/with quick change only 1050 lbs. with driver for winged events, 1025 lbs. for non-winged

600/750cc UPRIGHT cars min. weight with driver is 875 lbs, for winged and 850 lbs for non-winged

Re: National Lightning Sprint Car Rules
 

A little more weight than I would like to see, particularly on the non-winged side but at least you aren't penalizing the alky guys. A heck of a lot more fair than some of the crap I see going on or getting ready to go down. Thank you for at least being fair. Might have to reconsider a trip to Florida...............

Might be a stupid question but..........Your cars are all uprights.....correct? Not sidewinders?

R u serious, guess u wont be the series to follow. Good luck with the winternational lol......
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Re: National Lightning Sprint Car Rules
 

openwheel44 we are doing the best with what we got. About the only over the road outlaw I know is old Quantrill's raiders. Most of us don't have time or money to be chassen all over the country side, wish I did but then I would also own a Midget and wouldn't be wasting my time with these little old wanabe cars.

Most of these old rule books were put together with a lot of thought and effort to make things good for the racer. It behoves these promoters to have a rule book and purse that will attract as many cars as possible. Everybody knows about all the money they are raking in over us poor 99% ers. What they have produced is rules not "crap" I know that they do work together to try to get things close. I have raced at a few "foreign" tracks and didn't have to do a lot to run with them.

Seems like the two big problems would be weight and fuel. Bill May addresed the fuel thing last year to the approval of his group, he and old ppoutlaw have been working on rules together over the summer and ppoutlaw is changing his rules to accomodate even people like me. They might not be rules we like but they arent "crap" they will never please every one but if you don't like them you can always do something else like race midgets. (Did you ever read the USAC rule book) That is a work of art.:16

Re: National Lightning Sprint Car Rules
 

Little FYI......I used to race midgets with USAC and the departed MARA. Enjoyed it tremedously. Just got tired of having to travel long distances EVERY weekend from the Kansas City area. Aside from flattrack bikes (did that too)......I think midget racing is the 2nd best racing out there.

When I refer to "crap" I am talking about this correlation of fuel and weight. I have no problem with any of the rest in general. Still would like to know how these "powers" arrived at putting so much weight on an alky car and can still sleep at nights. Just show me some credible evidence that alky is that far superior to the gas these guys are running. Quit trying to weight the cars down so much. Anyway.......That's the "crap" I am referring to. I respect their efforts to help the class along. I just question some of the decision making, the supporting evidence behind it and how it is beginning to effect the rest of the country.

Yep......I can choose not to race at particular areas, I can park the thing, I can sell it and get in another class. So how is that helping the class if more and more racers do that because they feel they are being unjustly treated because they run alky? But you're right....could be time to move on.

As you can tell........I am NOT a very good sheeple.