any tips for thunder valley for a mini sprint
 

i ran 2nd there last night most the night but just couldn't quite get to first any sugestions would be greatly appreciated. i ran my car handled really good just a little tight in the middle of the turn, i ran 3 gear at 12,700 rpm. will to much stagger cause me to have to fight my car down the straights it want to go left all the time thanks guys

Re: any tips for thunder valley for a mini sp
 

First off I'd have to say running in the top five anywhere is pretty darn good, congrats. Too much stagger can make the car strange on the straights. Just how much are you fighting the car in the straights ? If its literally a battle then something aint right, if it's just a feeling that the car wants to move to the left some I'd have to say maybe the car is ok. Some nights no matter how good your car and driver combo is, somebody is clicking and runs better. I'm sure you'll get some good suggestions here. Personally I'd check to make sure the rear is squared and if it is I'd try less stagger. Also check the wheelbase on both sides, I believe we run our left side 1/2 inch less wheelbase. Forgot to mention about scaling your car you might have to jack some weight around.

Re: any tips for thunder valley for a mini sp
 

Would like to know what bars/ springs you are running. The car should not be pulling left while under throttle.

Re: any tips for thunder valley for a mini sp
 

i am running rr 875 lr 900 rf 875 lf 850 4 psi lr 6 rr 10 lf 12 rf it is really bad under cautions not to bad racing the car i gues momentem pushes it to the outside this was only my second race so i'm still learning but i know since i re blocked the car to a manual i have it handles ten times better biggest prob was the tightness in the middle of the turns i just had to feather the throttle to much to get it to turn left to keep up my speed in the turn

Re: any tips for thunder valley for a mini sp
 

OK, wing or non wing. I am guessing these are "upright" mini sprints with a 1000cc motors? Sorry for more questions, and no answers. Just do not want to lie to you is all.

Re: any tips for thunder valley for a mini sp
 

yes winged upright

If the car is tight in the center, add stagger.
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Re: any tips for thunder valley for a mini sp
 

i have a crap load more than anyone else there checking the tires out on the cars in front of me in the shute

From what I've learned in my years, if the car is tight in the center, it needs more stagger for the setup on the car.

Different strokes for different folks. I used to roll out in our car with 9-10 inches of stagger, while everybody else has 5-7. If it works for you, that's what's important.
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Re: any tips for thunder valley for a mini sp
 

Originally Posted by thebus79h:
From what I've learned in my years, if the car is tight in the center, it needs more stagger for the setup on the car.

Different strokes for different folks. I used to roll out in our car with 9-10 inches of stagger, while everybody else has 5-7. If it works for you, that's what's important.
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thanks

Your air pressures in the rear tires seem remarkably low. This could possibly contribute to your car wanting to turn left down the straights. If your car is handling decently in the turns, try to get the same amount of stagger with somewhere around 8-10 psi in the RR. Idealy this should help you get the car more stable when going down the straitaways.
You might be able to get away with such a low psi in a sprintcar, but the volume of air in the rear tires on a mini is alot lower. It seems like their isn't anything holding the car up with such low psi...
after reading your posts a bit more throughly you said that under caution the car is all over the place. It really seems like low psi in your rear tires is the problem. During greens the centrifigal force holds the tires up and allows in to handle somewhat bettter. If your tires are more inflated you wouldn't have to rely on the tires expanding to hold up the car. I hope this makes sense. Give it a shot and see what happens...

Originally Posted by Mulvaney:
thanks

No problem, and keep me posted, like the other guy said, if you're in the top 5, you're doing well. Anytime you've got questions, always ask. That's one of the biggest mistakes people make is never asking.
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Re: any tips for thunder valley for a mini sp
 

Originally Posted by LocalYokel:
Your air pressures in the rear tires seem remarkably low. This could possibly contribute to your car wanting to turn left down the straights. If your car is handling decently in the turns, try to get the same amount of stagger with somewhere around 8-10 psi in the RR. Idealy this should help you get the car more stable when going down the straitaways.
You might be able to get away with such a low psi in a sprintcar, but the volume of air in the rear tires on a mini is alot lower. It seems like their isn't anything holding the car up with such low psi...
after reading your posts a bit more throughly you said that under caution the car is all over the place. It really seems like low psi in your rear tires is the problem. During greens the centrifigal force holds the tires up and allows in to handle somewhat bettter. If your tires are more inflated you wouldn't have to rely on the tires expanding to hold up the car. I hope this makes sense. Give it a shot and see what happens...

Yep tire pressures seem low. I'd try with 10 in my r/r and 7 or so in l/r and take it from there. The guys at flemington and reading used to run grooved drag slicks, man when them babys got going a 130 mph or so and that big block spinning them tires up and still excellerating it was insane. gotta love centrifical force.

Re: any tips for thunder valley for a mini sp
 

Originally Posted by LocalYokel:
Your air pressures in the rear tires seem remarkably low. This could possibly contribute to your car wanting to turn left down the straights. If your car is handling decently in the turns, try to get the same amount of stagger with somewhere around 8-10 psi in the RR. Idealy this should help you get the car more stable when going down the straitaways.
You might be able to get away with such a low psi in a sprintcar, but the volume of air in the rear tires on a mini is alot lower. It seems like their isn't anything holding the car up with such low psi...
after reading your posts a bit more throughly you said that under caution the car is all over the place. It really seems like low psi in your rear tires is the problem. During greens the centrifigal force holds the tires up and allows in to handle somewhat bettter. If your tires are more inflated you wouldn't have to rely on the tires expanding to hold up the car. I hope this makes sense. Give it a shot and see what happens...

i will try this next weekend and we will see what happens. i am just taking info from people at the track and that is where i am getting most of it. i personally have never raced before so i don't have a clue really. i just love racing i have been twice and i'm hooked. racing has to be worse than any drug. i can't get enough, my brain wants more and more i guess i am like ricky bobby " i wanna go fast"

thanks

Let us know how it turns out. My advice would be to befriend whomever built the chassis andpick their brain as much as possible. Almost always a car builder is happy to get their new customer happy and running in the front.
What brand of chassis is it? You could also try to get some help from whomever sold you the car. Be warned though that sometimes the seller of the car might have the best intentions when it comes to advice, but in actuality they may know less than you. The same applies to the message boards. People might be trying their best to help, but not really have any quality advice.
Also, if your in southern Indiana, go talk to the guy who owns Foz chassis. Your gonna need parts sometime along the line, and they make good products. They'll also be more than happy to make sure that their customer is doing well.
Good luck. And lastly, running second without knowing a ton about how to set up a car is pretty increadable! You should be very proud!
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Re: any tips for thunder valley for a mini sp
 

Ok, your bars sound good. If your car is trying to turn right then you've got problems. First, make sure your rear axcel is square, that means no lead, after that you check your front axcel lead by measuring from the back side of the front axcel to the center of the rear axcel on both sides. Some people like to have a little lead with the front axcel, I run straight up, but if you want, no more than 1/4 inch on the right side. Next check your tow in and tow out, 1/8 inch tow out is good but any more than 1/4 inch will make it hard to steer, tow in is bad because it will make the car feel darty and twichy.
Front tire pressure, I run about 9lbs in the right front and 8lbs in the left. It would be a good idea to check the stagger on you fronts because you don't want reverse stagger. No more than a 1/2 inch of stagger though. Play with the pressures and when you get the right size and stagger then all you have to do is make sure the pressures are right before you go out every time. All of this will help you with your problem of turning right. If you're tight center out, yes more rear stagger. I usually start out with 8 or 9lbs in the rr and 3lbs in lr and depending on track conditions let the rr down to 5 or 6lbs and 4+ on lr to get the stagger I prefer for the feature. Stagger wise that's about 6 to 7 inches early and 4 to 5 by feature.(depending on track conditions)

C. Ambrose

Hey Ambrose,
All good advice, but he was saying it wants to turn left down the straight, not right. If its wanting to go right, that's a huge problem. Having the car wanting to turn left, well that's a small problem.

I was also thinking about the original posters issues. Running really now psi's allows the tires to gain pressure during the race as the tires heat up. You can counteract this by doing one of two things, or even doing both. First off is running nitrogen in the tires, nitrogen doesn't react like regular compressed air and will keep the pressues constant. You could also try running bleeders in the wheels to get rid of the built up pressures in the tires and keep the psi constant throughout the race...
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Re: any tips for thunder valley for a mini sp
 

My car pulls maybe slightly in the straights, which I like. It backs in there nice. Everybody drives different. If my car was to run perfectly straight on the straights it wouldnt be setup for me.

Re: any tips for thunder valley for a mini sp
 

When starting out racing watch the guys that are running out front ask them for help. Most of those people would probably be glad to help get you going. Collin Ambrose is one of those guys when he talks listen. Hope to see you at funfest.
DAD

Re: any tips for thunder valley for a mini sp
 

Originally Posted by Mulvaney:
i am running rr 875 lr 900 rf 875 lf 850 4 psi lr 6 rr 10 lf 12 rf it is really bad under cautions not to bad racing the car i gues momentem pushes it to the outside this was only my second race so i'm still learning but i know since i re blocked the car to a manual i have it handles ten times better biggest prob was the tightness in the middle of the turns i just had to feather the throttle to much to get it to turn left to keep up my speed in the turn

Sounds like trying to turn right to me. That's what he said it this clip.

Re: any tips for thunder valley for a mini sp
 

Originally Posted by Mulvaney:
i am running rr 875 lr 900 rf 875 lf 850 4 psi lr 6 rr 10 lf 12 rf it is really bad under cautions not to bad racing the car i gues momentem pushes it to the outside this was only my second race so i'm still learning but i know since i re blocked the car to a manual i have it handles ten times better biggest prob was the tightness in the middle of the turns i just had to feather the throttle to much to get it to turn left to keep up my speed in the turn

I got confused but are those numbers on your scales ? your minisprint weights 3500 lbs or so. ? I'm easily confused and this could be one of those moments, if so sorry. Anyhow to set up a loose car my guy sets my car up about 30 lbs heavy in the L/R and I like the fronts about as even as I can. For a car that I fuel hard into the corners we would put a little more on the R/R.

Re: any tips for thunder valley for a mini sp
 

Originally Posted by backitin:
I got confused but are those numbers on your scales ? your minisprint weights 3500 lbs or so. ? I'm easily confused and this could be one of those moments, if so sorry. Anyhow to set up a loose car my guy sets my car up about 30 lbs heavy in the L/R and I like the fronts about as even as I can. For a car that I fuel hard into the corners we would put a little more on the R/R.

those numbers are my torsion bar weights my car weighs 1010 with me in it

Re: any tips for thunder valley for a mini sp
 

Ok, thanks. I figured I'd end up sounding ignorant :) anyhow if you scale your car the weight distrubution I mentioned works for a base. I'm not even sure whats in my car, my setup guy was more worried about squaring the car and setting the weight distribution then the bars, he barely glanced at them and said thy'll be fine, another thing I have to learn.

Originally Posted by Ambrose93&39:
Sounds like trying to turn right to me. That's what he said it this clip.

I still dont see where hes saying the car wants to turn right, toward te wall. A push in the middle of the corner is quite alot different than the car suddenly wanting to turn right...
Taking a turn or two out of the RR bar will help out that push...
Don't worry too much about how the weight it distributed. Alot of the top guys in all classes don't even scale their cars, they just make sure its of legal weight. If the car handles well then it doesn't really matter where the weight is located...
Your setup man sounds like he knows what he's doing. The car being square, and the bars are the most important thing. Get those right first and worry about fine tuning later.
You also mentioned that you drive it hard into the corner. That right there will cause a push. Since its only your second time behind the wheel, it takes a while to understand these things. Ideally, on a slick track, you want to enter the turn very gingerly. The slower the better really. That way, you can be faster in the middle, and exiting the turns. Passing guys exiting the turns is really where you want to accomplish it. Alot of guys barrell into a turn and pass cars that way, but it kills there momentum for the strait and the next turn.
Focus on entering the turns smooth and controlled, this will solve your push and allow you to be fast.
On a dry slick dirt track 90% of the time you'll be faster by "being slow". Running up top on the cushion is a whole different ball a wax, but I've found almost all of the time in minis, espically on a flat track like Salem, the races are won on the bottom playing huggy pole...

Re: any tips for thunder valley for a mini sp
 

david woolston ran first there last time the track was real tacky cause it rained the day before and he ran up top all night and was flyin. the track is banked. and it looks like it might do it again next race so i need to be able to get up top but with the push i am worried if it pushes any at all i will be in the wall. also there is a large rut in turn 1 and 2 and if your on the bottom u just might turn over as i found out the hard way. came in hot hit it and people in the pits said i was on 1 wheel for a second. so i have to atleast be mid way up but i have always seen my uncle race at the top in 410 sprints and he says that is the fastest lap due to momentum. but the momentem don't help if i have to back off twice as much to get out of the corner. thanks everyone for the help i look forward to seeing all u guys at funfest

If you're gunna run on the top, you have to be committed to it. You can't just get up there halfway. You gotta get that RR up in the cushion
Running the top with a push isn't the end of the world though. Once you get your rear wheels where you feel they should be get on the gas fairly agressively. Remember not to lift once your on the gas up there or else you'll snap the front end right into the wall. Lots of brake setting the car up going into the corner, then lots of throttle once you're up there.
The top side sometimes is the fastest, and its most definately the flashiest. That being said, don't get it stuck in your head before you even get there that, that's where you're going to run. Pay close attention to the track and run where its going to be the fastest. If the bottoms where its at then so be it.
Ive been in the winners circle at Thunder Valley a few times so I know the track well. Just trying to help. Thunder Valleys definately on of my favorite tracks. Id love to see them put on some 410 shows, or at least run midgets there.
If you happen to win this weekend you've gotta thank IndianaOpenwheel in your victory lane speach! Haha :)

Who is your uncle btw?

Re: any tips for thunder valley for a mini sp
 

Originally Posted by LocalYokel:
If you're gunna run on the top, you have to be committed to it. You can't just get up there halfway. You gotta get that RR up in the cushion
Running the top with a push isn't the end of the world though. Once you get your rear wheels where you feel they should be get on the gas fairly agressively. Remember not to lift once your on the gas up there or else you'll snap the front end right into the wall. Lots of brake setting the car up going into the corner, then lots of throttle once you're up there.
The top side sometimes is the fastest, and its most definately the flashiest. That being said, don't get it stuck in your head before you even get there that, that's where you're going to run. Pay close attention to the track and run where its going to be the fastest. If the bottoms where its at then so be it.
Ive been in the winners circle at Thunder Valley a few times so I know the track well. Just trying to help. Thunder Valleys definately on of my favorite tracks. Id love to see them put on some 410 shows, or at least run midgets there.
If you happen to win this weekend you've gotta thank IndianaOpenwheel in your victory lane speach! Haha :)

Who is your uncle btw?

alfred palmer he mechanics on eric davis' cars for larry's truck service they haven't ran in couple years do to health

Re: any tips for thunder valley for a mini sp
 

[QUOTE=LocalYokel;255323]If you're gunna run on the top, you have to be committed to it. You can't just get up there halfway. You gotta get that RR up in the cushion
Running the top with a push isn't the end of the world though. Once you get your rear wheels where you feel they should be get on the gas fairly agressively. Remember not to lift once your on the gas up there or else you'll snap the front end right into the wall. Lots of brake setting the car up going into the corner, then lots of throttle once you're up there.
The top side sometimes is the fastest, and its most definately the flashiest. That being said, don't get it stuck in your head before you even get there that, that's where you're going to run. Pay close attention to the track and run where its going to be the fastest. If the bottoms where its at then so be it.
Ive been in the winners circle at Thunder Valley a few times so I know the track well. Just trying to help. Thunder Valleys definately on of my favorite tracks. Id love to see them put on some 410 shows, or at least run midgets there.
If you happen to win this weekend you've gotta thank IndianaOpenwheel in your victory lane speach! Haha :)

what kind of gear did you run there i ran 12,700 rpm but accordin to my motor specs i have the most torque around 9.250 and the horsepower peaks around 11,000 so i think i need to go down a couple teeth in the back also most reviews say that on the bike all the test were done in 4th gear. i run in 3rd gear should i try fourth before changing gears.