Umra/mtqrl
 

Could the UMRA and MTQRL ever join forces again? What is your opinion? What changes would need to be made to make a merge work? Let's hear it!

Re: Umra/mtqrl
 

Oh boy...open the flood gates!!!

Hope TQ Racing will survive, that is my wish.
I have fond memories of when I played with the TQs (only one organization at that time).
Good luck to all involved

Kerry

Re: Umra/mtqrl
 

Just for the record, I didn't pose the question to start drama (in case anyone is thinking that). I'm not for one club or the other and have nothing against either club. I have been around TQ racing for YEARS and it is sad to see the clubs divided, the low car counts at races, etc. I just wanted opinions from others to see if there is ANY chance of the two organizations putting their differences aside and bringing back the TQ racing that we all love and remember! I miss the old days when 50-60 cars would show up to compete and you had to work your butt off to make it in the feature. We could have that again if they could get back together.

Re: Umra/mtqrl
 

I've said it for years, the word "club" is the issue. You cannot let the inmates run the asylum. Both have good things, and both have bad things, but you cannot let the inmates run the asylum.

I have been around T.Q. Midget racing since 1982 and it continued to grow to its peak in the late 90s and the year 2000. In 1999 it was 45 cars minimum and up to 60 at times. The competition was at its highest with Terry, Oogie, Robert Nichols, both the Ambrose's, Setser,Arrington, Weir,Mike Smith,etc,and I'll throw myself in there too. In 24 A-Mains, Terry Goff, Jim Weir, and myself were the only 3 to make every one the entire season! Now that's tough competition! We need one organization for T.Q. Midget racing! For better car counts and better competition level too!
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Re: Umra/mtqrl
 

Even if both organizations got together the days of 50 -60 cars showing up is over.As far as the "club" goes you have several people making the decisions instead of 1 dictator.I would rather have several opinions on how to run things instead of just one.It would mean a lot more to have to earn your way into the main instead of just showing up knowing you were in.My guess is that if both organizations combined you would only get 30-35 cars which is still better than what it is now.

Re: Umra/mtqrl
 

I agree with Race Fan. The days of hugh car counts is over. 30 -35 would be a large count. As far as clubs getting back together, I really never see that coming anytime soon. I ran TQ's in the 80's when Bob Lowe was president. Alot of people didn't like the way Bob did things, but it was the same for all. If you want a united group again, alot of names are going to need to change in both group, TQ racing will survive, just going thru some hard times. It needs a person to step up that does not have a dog on either side. Tim

Re: Umra/mtqrl
 

Competition is good for everything and everyone. If umara made a few bad calls in the past perhaps someone may have said hell I can do it better than that and that is usually what does make things better. Clubs usually have "clicks" in them and this spoils it for everyone not in the "click". Most of us have found ourselves out of the "click" at one time or the other and it does seem to take the fun out of what we are doing. It seems to run a race "club" first you need a strong willed person, three people can never make any thing work right. This person also must be a loveable Ahole (no reference to anyone past or present) if only one half of the group thinks he's doing a good job he not doing it. If everyone gets mad at him one time or the other he's probably doing one hell of job. I don't care if you make a bone head call on me I have had many I did not agree with and just let them go by, but if I see that you aren't making them on every one else Im going to go to the competition and race. Besides what promoter in their right mind would want 60 cars to fit into his already 5 class race night.

DAD

Re: Umra/mtqrl
 

Tim, DAD, you are both correct, the "club" days are over, and I'm sorry to say, the "dictator" is in, simple as that, it's a lot fewer people to come to agreement, on anything, and takes out the "good ole boys", and yes, 30-60 cars were too many, that's why the "hey day" died so quick, only one place running, no choice, load up and go home, empty pockets. It is the way it is, because that's the way the owners wanted it, now, at least, they have some choices, and there is a 3rd party starting an "outlaw" organization, which will give another choice, and hopefully, stir more interest in more people getting involved, which is good in the future, it will be like the Sprint cars, look at all the choices they have, they are endless, and plenty of cars to go around. I think it's all good, just too bad it didn't happen, back when we did have 60 cars show up, for a 20 lap, 20 car feature. I like it!!!! Bob!:8:

Re: UMRA/MTQRL
 

There's going to be another organization coming into Indiana? I'm not too sure that's what we need, but I guess we'll see.

I could go on and on, but I'll just agree what's already been said...lol!

Re: Umra/mtqrl
 

The "cream" will come to the top. All most racers want is to think they have a chance to win ever so often. I went once to a race and watched AJ Felker win the race only to be beat by the rules and rulers . The crowd in the stands got mad as hell, but poor AJ was not in the "click" and not allowed to win. That was several years ago and I haven't gone back since. Make all the dumb call's you want but make them on every one and you will keep your base. Let's get the "clicks" out of racing, If it takes another outfit to do it "so be it"!

DAD

Re: UMRA/MTQRL
 

I'm not sure if it's the same race that you speak of, but I do remember Felker passing Willis for the lead, only to be black flagged. This was at Rushville, so it's a call that I think was wrong, but could have went either way, I guess. It wasn't a dirty move. It's tight racing and I think A.J. was under Jason. Anyway, calls like that are going to happen all over the country, every weekend.

With that being said, there are a lot of other issues (other than on track calls) involved that make the resolution not so easy to fix.

Re: Umra/mtqrl
 

Re: Umra/mtqrl
 

Just ask yourself how we wound up with the division in TQ racing. Look at the history of the team that caused the birth of the MWTQL and their suspensions and on/off track intimidations. I don't think a group leadership atmosphere has helped in this situation. And now the car counts are so low you suspend 1 you lose 5 cars which was the problem at the Rushville Fair in June with only 16 cars. If you are voted in as a leader by a group, it can and has in the past resulted in less than faverable decisions just to appease the individuals who may have helped you get your position. I see no easy answer. But consistancy in leadership withuot fear of being voted out may be the way to go.

Re: Umra/mtqrl
 

as far as car counts go they dont really seem to bad compared to other tracks and divisions imo. it seems both clubs are getting around 20 at most shows. That is pretty decent considering the traveling schedule and economics involved (gas, fuel, tires, etc...) The club that puts up a good purse with good leaders will be the prominent organization, but that leadership is the most important part in keeping those people.

The past is the past so lets look forward to tomorrow and learn from what went wrong today and go racing and have FUN!!!

Brad

Outlaw tq group? Awesome
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Re: Umra/mtqrl
 

Want a bigger car count, add 600cc mini-sprints, up-rights and sidewinders both. It is being done in other parts of the country right now with success. The sad part is this won't happen, Indiana TQs are not fans of transmissions. Trust me, I have been there, done that, and wasted a bunch of $. The car I built was the answer though.
.
Carl Cruse / MTQRL Announcer

Re: Umra/mtqrl
 

i agree with above the 600 can run with tq and be competitive for both and raise car counts. the problem in indy is there are already plenty of 600s doing well with car counts and i dont see them wanting to go anywhere.

Re: Umra/mtqrl
 

they are afraid of anything with a chain drive powertrain. in 1987 they outlawed chain drives and roadsters (sidewinders). people in the stands that pay to see the races cant tell the difference if the cars are powered by a chain or a quick change rear end.:deadhorse:

Re: Umra/mtqrl
 

No, the car you HAD built, was NOT the answer, you were told, how you could have that car built, and still meet the rule book, but you chose to do it another way, which wasn't by the rule book, plus, you were running it on gas, another self inflicted deviation from the rule book. A TRADITIONAL TQ, doesn't have a chain drive, a MINI-SPRINT does, traditional Sprint cars, and midgets, don't have transmissions or chain drives, why is that so hard to understand, if you want to run a TQ, abide by the rule book, if you want to run a Mini-Sprint, run it by the rule book for that type of car, not by the rules you want to make up, to suit your own situation, or desires, and BTW, who ever called you an announcer? Bob!:)

Re: Umra/mtqrl
 

What I built is not the point. I said if ya want bigger car counts add 600 mini sprints. I understand more than anybody that Indiana TQs don't have transmissions or chain drives as the rule book states. I learned that rule is here to stay the hard way, but that still doesn't mean it is right or the best thing for TQs. If you had come to more races this year you would already know there are people tring again to get that set up made legal. So get ready for that can of worms to open back up. Not by me though, I want nothing to do with that mess. Like I said, been there, done that.
.
BTW, Chris Economaki called me an entertaining anouncer in Nat. Speed Sport News.

Re: Umra/mtqrl
 

Speaking of quick change rear end do any of you ancient guys know how to get in touch with Eddie Davis his dad made the first TQ quick changes back in the 50,s. We could probably find a couple of 1000 cc mini sprints to race with you if you want.

---------- Post added at 11:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:44 AM ----------

Mr Ambrose they probably couldn't out law the driver so they just outlawed his car. You probably won too many races. I hear you were using some sort of traction control.

Re: Umra/mtqrl
 

Dad, that wouldn't be a very equal arrangement, as we have an 836cc engine limit, on SOHC, and 700cc on twin cam, multivalve, it would be like taking a knife to a gun fight. If you're refering to Davis&Peck, I think they are both gone, along with Casale/ Cornis, they are all gone as far as I know, I know for sure Cornis is, I last talked to him, maybe early to mid 90's, and he passed not long after, I bought a lot of parts off him, almost bought his remaining stock, but relatives came into play, and thought they'd all become millionairs of what he had left them. I think Gary Schroeder took a look, as well as at the stock of Norden, but walked away. I don't have any say in who runs with us, but who knows, what the answer might be, I'd say only in conjunction with, not against each other. Acro makes a small rear end, and a lot of us run a full midget rear end. This thing could easily get out of hand, but personally, I think it is better left alone, it is about as traditional as it gets, if someone wants to invent another variation, have at it. Bob!:)

---------- Post added at 11:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 AM ----------

I always had a lot of respect, for Chris, can't believe he'd be that far off! As far as leaving the trans on the engine, and running off the crankshaft end, as the rules spell out, that's fine with me, that isn't new, it just required some changes to a current chassis, and evidently wasn't considered, worth the effort, but, you do what you see fit, but don't expect a lot of followers. Bob!:)

---------- Post added at 11:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 AM ----------

DAD, I think it was more the 2-smoke engine, rather than the chain drive, because I had the last car that had had a Konig in it, and it had been converted to a QC Cornis rear end, the imprint of the Konig engine is still on the old motorplate, which I still have, and, true to common sense, no one even considered the driver in the equation, which had more to do with it than anything, he still kept spankin their asses, after they went to a Honda! Bob!:2:

Re: Umra/mtqrl
 

The quick change rear vs the chain drive is what sets apart the TQ and mini sprint. The qc rear makes a real race car while the chain is a toy race car.

Re: Umra/mtqrl
 

[/COLOR]I always had a lot of respect, for Chris, can't believe he'd be that far off! As far as leaving the trans on the engine, and running off the crankshaft end, as the rules spell out, that's fine with me, that isn't new, it just required some changes to a current chassis, and evidently wasn't considered, worth the effort, but, you do what you see fit, but don't expect a lot of followers. Bob!:)[COLOR="Black"]

Chris can never be as far off as your TQ engine! Has your engine ever been down a straight away without missing? Message boards are fun when they get personal huh? oh wait I forgot the :), they make everything ok.:2:
.
The funny part is out of the 2 main people who were against that set up - 1 doesn't even run anymore, car is for sale, and you Bob the other have only ran once this year :6:

Re: Umra/mtqrl
 

This question was asked to me about Rushville fair next year, they wanted to know if it would be possible to have the Rushville Nationals back on Friday and Saturday. Not as UMRA or MTQRL but just Rushville Nationals. It could be fun, but hard to do when the groups dont want to work together, they were considering MTQRL vs UMRA with a trophy going to winning organization.

Re: Umra/mtqrl
 

everyone just cool your pipes...t.q's, upright-minisprints.sidewinders
that's the reason they are all different..so you can run what you like...i suspect some want to run together, rather than travel to their like cars..
T.Q's now have it better than ever...two clubs (20 cars each) booking races (on seperate nights), but i don't see many cross-over racers...real racers don't care what organization they run, as long as they are treated fairly, The two cross-over racers are true racers..run as much as possible (seat time makes you better)..damn the ********.

Re: Umra/mtqrl
 

I've heard a lot of people complaining that there weren't any Rushville Nationals this year. Who is questioning about next year? The fair board? And how can it NOT be UMRA or MTQRL if they are considering an MTQRL vs UMRA?

I would rather there not be a competition between the two organizations and have them work together. The whole reason I started this thread was to see if anyone could shed new light on ideas to get them to let their differences go and be one organization again. Maybe there are no answers and no chance of reuniting, but it doesn't hurt to get ideas and see where everyone stands.

Bob,

Your comments on Carl as announcer are completely uncalled for. Your differences of opinion on the direction TQ's should follow is one thing, but to say "BTW, who ever called you an announcer?" is inappropriate. And then you take another dig at him?

In my many years with the TQ's I have been very fortunate to work with some extremely talented & professional announcers - Tony Steele, Pat Sullivan, Chad Cunningham, & Gary Lee, to name a few. I have also worked alongside Brad Dickison, Carl Cruse, Kimb Stewart & Rob Klepper.

All of the announcers I have listed above are great announcers & any track or series would be better off by having them handle their announcing duties.

This season Carl came on board as the MTQRL announcer. The MTQRL is very fortunate to have an announcer with Carl's abilities and professionalism.

Racing is an entertainment business. You can put on the best, most competitive racing ever but without a good announcer the fans won't care.

Sandy

Re: Umra/mtqrl
 

That is exactly the mentality killing the TQ's off. Ever wonder why there are maybe 35 to 40 TQ's that run on any given weekend in Indiana, but there are two different classes of "adult" micro sprints, and at two tracks that BOTH run Saturday nights, they will at least have a "B" Main at both places?

Both have their pros and their cons, but the fact of the matter is things aren't going to change until the drivers and owners aren't calling the shots. We've ran in the UMRA, and MTQRL this year, and years past, and both organizations have pros and cons, but the MTQRL I feel like I'm there to race more than with the UMRA, just because of so many ********. Why not open the rules up to get newer motors in the series, why not force a track to groom it to where you have two grooves of racing instead of the constant beating, banging, and gouging at Rushville.

Guess I'll put it this way, TQ's at this point in time are like the midgets and sprints of old, where mini's and micros are like the sprints and midgets of now. Micros and mini's have new parts, tons of manufacturers, and lots of places to find motors, and parts. TQ's on the other hand don't have many manufacturers making parts for them, the motors are old and not many builders. That isn't a knock on a TQ, that's fact. I've been a part of both for quite some time, and that's the differences I see.

TQ's have to come into this century with their product they are trying to produce, and when that happens, it'll start growing again. Back in 1999, when my family decided to go dirt open wheel racing, we looked at micros, and TQ's. The TQ's looked neater, but after talking with people, and learning about the engines, and where to buy parts, micros were the way to go.

Something needs to be done, that's for sure, but people have got to relax on some rules, and let things happen. A TQ with a Yamaha R1 on some converted fuel injection is a CHEAP way to go racing. You spend 3 grand on injection, and you have an engine for around 1500 bucks. What does it cost to get a TQ competitive?

Re: Umra/mtqrl
 

Carl cruze is still a dj for a local rock and roll station here in cincy. 92.5 fm...

Thebus79h that was a well thought out and informative post.
I personally feel which organization develops engine rules and regulations
That uses the tranny will have a positive increase in car count numbers which in turn brings in more pit passes and fans.. increased revenue ..o
There are potential car owners right now waiting for next years engine rules before they purchase a tq versus a mini sprint..
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Re: Umra/mtqrl
 

I think that "tweaking" the rules is one thing, but totally writing different rules to allow this car or that car isn't the way to go. If there's a way to open it up to allow newer engines to be involved, great. However, aren't these already being allowed? It's not just Honda anymore, but Suzuki and Kawasaki's are options. I also know that you can get a pretty good deal on them.

I guess what makes me wonder about overhauling the rules to allow chain-drives, etc. is why? Again, some tweaking is one thing, but I feel like this is totally going away from making TQ's different from Mini and Micro Sprints. TQ's are TQ's, period! If there are no chain-driven cars, but that goes for everyone and should stay that way.

Do you think USAC should allow wings to help car counts? Do you think Mini-Sprints should allow TQ's? The list could go on and on, really. There's not a shortage of TQ's, or parts, IMO. It's not all about tradition, but more about keeping a TQ, a TQ.

Lastly, the split was because of the ******** and happenings of one series. It wasn't a one time situation, but years of issues within it. With that being said, I still think it'll be a long time before any resolution would occur.

Again, this is just my opinion. Thebus and others have great inputs, too.

Shawn

No chain drives. Simply the drive shaft attaches to the transmission instead of the crankshaft. Cost effective and overall an option for car owners to run modern engines without cutting them up and removing the transmission.
This option will not give an unfare advantage to people who want its simply cheaper and saves the people that work on the car valuable time. To put towards other things family,work,etc.
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Re: Umra/mtqrl
 

Shawn, I think you said all that needs to be said. I agree 100%. Tim

Re: Umra/mtqrl
 

now theres something to consider attaching a driveshaft to the tranny even coming up with a 1 to 1 ratio would take some work but same affect as running off the crank correct???

Re: Umra/mtqrl
 

modlites run a drive shaft of the tranny to a quick change. it can be done the problem is the engine will have to be offset to the leftso the driveshaft can come thru the plate and to the rearend

Don't even need the chain drive. Cut the transmission off, and go race it. No having to figure out oiling systems, just use the stock on.

These cars need more power in order to make the racing better. In a 20 car field, putting 12th quick up there (after not earning the pole), and holding everybody up isn't a good race. Give these cars some power to bust the tires loose, and go race.

Why does an old school car have to be from the stone age it seems? Why is new such a bad thing?
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Re: Umra/mtqrl
 

TQ's are a lot like quarter midgets. I raced quarters 45 years ago and the engine there rules specified was the old continental red seal that was an antique back then. They kept this rule up until several years ago and prices for these engines got higher and higher. Now they have two clubs but at least they got new motor rules a real ohv that works stock almost as good as the old "AA fuel motor". They also are getting away from teaching kids how to drive right, taking away calls on blocking, charging, and rough driving, but that would be another post.
We have been running the minisprint toy cars for about 20 years now. Or engine was made in 2008. I had a 750 honda motor cycle in 1974 and it was fast,but times change. Or motor is geared to turn 13500 rpm's and make about 225 hp stock on alchol. Try that with a 2 valve 35 year old 836 honda. Now here is the problem with TQ rules on a small 1/5 to 1/4 mile track we gear around 12.5 to 13.5 to 1 gear. What kind of a ring gear could we find to get that rato with that trick quick change. If any of you guys would like to come and play with us and our toy cars come on. By the way the 750 cc suzucki was considered a boat ancor in mini sprints many years ago and our track times are usually as fast or faster than the sprint cars we share race dates with.

Re: Umra/mtqrl
 

So somebody tell me why (other than it's in the rules) TQers won't even consider the possibility of bringing back chain drive? The simplicity and the lower cost alone should be enough to want to run chain drive! There's nothing hard about it, take the motor out of the bike and put it in the car as is!