Indy 500
 

What a finish!!!

Re: Indy 500
 

If Wide World of Sports was still on tv that would have been a new "the agony of defeat"!:14: I feel very sorry for that rookie kid,he did a great interview afterwards!!

Hildebrands team is protesting the finish
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You've got to be kidding Chris...:11:

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said they didnt pass until after the yellow was out...

Put him to the back for causing the yellow
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Didn't maintain yellow flag speed, so they got passed under the yellow; it's not Weldon's fault that Hildebrand failed to maintain his pace after the yellow flew.

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This oughta get good.....

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Panther Racing could have a point with their protest. Rules state that field is frozen when yellow comes out. That's how Helio beat Paul Tracy several years ago.

If they go by what happened today, then Paul really did win THE 500!

For the older folks on here, how many of you remember when they had the winners dispute between Uncle Bobby & Mario? How long did it take for that mess to get fixed?

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If this pic is real, Panther has no case.

http://www.trackforum.com/forums/sho...=1#post2658618

The tale of the tape:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZc_u...embedded#at=39

Re: Indy 500
 

Originally Posted by sprinter25:
Didn't maintain yellow flag speed, so they got passed under the yellow; it's not Weldon's fault that Hildebrand failed to maintain his pace after the yellow flew.

He very much DID cross the finish line faster than minimum speed. He hit the turn one wall at a decent speed and stopped later on down in the grass. Plus, you must maintain minimum speed behind the pace car, which obviously had not picked up the leader yet.

On the other hand, does the "cause of the yellow" immediately become irrelevent to the rules since it's disabled? Interesting situation.

On one hand, the car was running, moving, yellow out (field frozen, no passing) and crossed the line. (having been illegally passed under yellow?)
On the other hand, it was the "cause of the yellow". That reason alone will determine the winner. I see an argument on both sides of the fence....glad I'm not an official! :3:

David.

Re: Indy 500
 

He won the race! J r!

Re: Indy 500
 

Originally Posted by Seadog:
If this pic is real, Panther has no case.

http://www.trackforum.com/forums/sho...=1#post2658618

The tale of the tape:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZc_u...embedded#at=39

You're right Gregg, no chance of an appeal after rewatching the video.
Two things.

1.) Wheldon passed while the green was still on.
2.) Wheldon passed under the checkered flag only, the yellow flag was waved AFTER he crossed the line.

Poor Hildebrand, this will haunt him for a long time. Great drive he did though, and Wheldon.

David.

Re: Indy 500
 

"Brian Barnhart explained to us that because JR was a wounded car on the last lap, he was fair game," said Barnes. "I'm fine with that. It's a classy decision and we're not going to protest."
Panther Racing team owner John Barnes

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...o-the-indy-500

Re: Indy 500
 

The video is very cut and dry. But I guess the question will also come up on why the flagman waited so long to throw the yellow. Then there is also the light that comes on in the car when the yellow comes out. Maybe they will have some video showing if the light was on in the car when he passed. I doubt this will be over real soon.

JR shouldn't be rewarded for stepping on his d!ck. However, did Rich Vogler not win his last race even though he was the reason for the red?
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The year Helio won over Paul, they IRL officals said the yellow came out the instant the car crashed and the field was frozen, even though the actual yellow light didn't come on for serveral seconds later and after Paul pasted Helio.

Why is there always conflicting actions by the IRL?

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Originally Posted by nowingsjeff:
The year Helio won over Paul, they IRL officals said the yellow came out the instant the car crashed and the field was frozen, even though the actual yellow light didn't come on for serveral seconds later and after Paul pasted Helio.

Why is there always conflicting actions by the IRL?

Can't compare the two, the leader of the race caused this caution. Every time there is a caution for a wreck, other cars behind the crashed car pass that car with no penalty.

"PantherRacing Panther Racing
Panther Racing has not, nor will it, protest the finish of the Indianapolis 500."

Re: Indy 500
 

I totally missed the race but damn what a finish! You can clearly see that Wheldon was past Hildebrand when the yellow light came on but IMO when it's coming down to the checkered the caution light should be out of the equation. Race back to the line, first one there wins.

Re: Indy 500
 

Originally Posted by nowingsjeff:
The year Helio won over Paul, they IRL officals said the yellow came out the instant the car crashed and the field was frozen, even though the actual yellow light didn't come on for serveral seconds later and after Paul pasted Helio.

Why is there always conflicting actions by the IRL?

Memory serves me right they weren't coming down for the checker flag on the last lap like today.

REH

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[QUOTE=Vukie;229649]Can't compare the two, the leader of the race caused this caution. Every time there is a caution for a wreck, other cars behind the crashed car pass that car with no penalty."QUOTE]

Russ, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. The way you describe it doesn't hold water for me. Hypothetically, lets say Weldon didn't get by JR before he got to the finish line, does that mean JR would still not have won the race because he crashed and brought out the yellow? The way you descibe it that's the way it would seem.

To me the IRL makes it up as it goes.

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[quote=nowingsjeff;229656]

Originally Posted by Vukie:
Can't compare the two, the leader of the race caused this caution. Every time there is a caution for a wreck, other cars behind the crashed car pass that car with no penalty."QUOTE]

Russ, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. The way you describe it doesn't hold water for me. Hypothetically, lets say Weldon didn't get by JR before he got to the finish line, does that mean JR would still not have won the race because he crashed and brought out the yellow? The way you descibe it that's the way it would seem.

To me the IRL makes it up as it goes.

Sorry, when Tags crashed today every car behind him passed his crash on the track and those drivers received no penalty. That is a correct call. It's same thing for JR he caused the yellow, doesn't make a difference if he's the leader or 30th, other cars on track can pass that wreck car, even when it's for position.

If JR crossed the finish line before Wheldon, then JR Hildebrand is the winner of the 2011 Indianapolis 500. Other cars on the track can pass a disabled car at anytime during the race. Hildebrand had a disabled car.

If JR hadn't passed the finish line and was short by a foot, does that mean he won? How do you score that? Does Wheldon have to slam on the brakes not to pass the Panther car?

The correct call was made.

One question, how would the Panther car pass tech after the wreck if they were declared the winner?

If JR crosses the finish line before Wheldon, then JR Hildebrand is the winner of the 2011 Indianapolis 500. He had a wrecked and disabled car, so other drivers can pass that car. If JR his crashed his car in turn 3, does that mean Wheldon can't pass him for the lead?

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I would say he crossed the line around 120 mph

---------- Post added at 07:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:45 PM ----------

J r was still running and finnish 500 miles! If the yellow comes out the field is frozen and you can't pass on the yellow! The yellow should have came out the sec. He hit the wall!!!!!!!!!!!

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[quote=Vukie;229668]

Originally Posted by nowingsjeff:

Sorry, when Tags crashed today every car behind him passed his crash on the track and those drivers received no penalty. That is a correct call. It's same thing for JR he caused the yellow, doesn't make a difference if he's the leader or 30th, other cars on track can pass that wreck car, even when it's for position.

All I'm saying is Brian Barnhart doesn't have any consistency with his rules. By the precedent he set back with Helio & Paul, the field is supposed to be frozen the split second the crash occurs and they're to hold that position until the race restarts. That goes for Tag's wreck or any wreck. The difference between Tag's wreck or other wrecks today and JR's was that JR's was the last scored lap of the race. With all other accidents there were more laps to complete in the race, so they scored them for the distances they completed. JR completed 500 miles, the others crashed cars didn't. So if Brian would have stuck with his controversial frozen field rule from before you'd have to give the win to JR. Since that's not how it happened today all you can do is question Barnhart's consistency with his rulings. If his ruling is correct today as you think, then you better put Paul Tracy's face on the Borg Warner trophy.

By the way, double file restarts at Indy ROCK! Hopefully a new tradition is born.

Re: Indy 500
 

This is from TSO, it explains the situation very well.

"The explanation given to Patrick [Stepan]for why the pass of Dan Wheldon's pass over JR Hildebrand stood was that "the expectation of no passing under yellow does not apply to cars involved in the caution period."

Paul and Helio did not wreck, two other cars wreck that day. JR Hildebrand wrecked, "the expectation of no passing under yellow does not apply to cars involved in the caution period."

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sounds like to me Pather just got at least one of their 2012 cars paid for today by the IRL
:20:

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Do all of you NASCAR lovers who like to talk about someone "got the call" think Weldon got the call today? :2:

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Great race, Weldon only led lap 200. Sitting in turn one the double file restarts were a hoot with Tomas Scheckter getting by 4 or 5 cars by running the cush in turn one. The crowd was still buzzing 10 minutes after the race. And the parade of 1911 and past winning cars was spectacular.

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I would have liked to hear the radio communication between Hildebrand and his spotter (if there was any) on the last couple laps. If the lead was "fairly" secure you would think the spotter would tell JR to stay behind the slow car through the turn and then pass him coming out of 4. I know.....easy for me to say sitting at home but......

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My sentiments exactly, did he even have a "spotter", what was the spotter "spotting"? Bad deal, my wife even caught that part, someone was watching their "bellybutton"! Bob!:)