USAC Will Run Sprints on Pavement
 

9 RACES AT 4 TRACKS FOR 2011 PAVEMENT SPRINTS

The 2011 USAC pavement Sprint car slate currently includes nine races at four tracks, including the return of the popular “Thursday Night Thunder” program at O’Reilly Raceway Park at Indianapolis, Ind.

One of USAC’s most popular programs ever, the “Thursday Night Thunder” series produced sensational talent and racing action in the 1980s and a total of six pavement Sprint races are on the 2011 slate for the .686-mile paved oval.

The pavement calendar kicks off May 12 and is scheduled to conclude October 13, both races at ORP. In between, events are also scheduled at the Salem and Winchester (Ind.) Speedways and at the Toledo (Ohio) Speedway. :6:

All four pavement tracks involved in the 2011 schedule have extensive USAC heritage. Winchester has hosted 138 USAC Sprint events, while Salem has witnessed 104, ORP 77 and Toledo 30.

2011 USAC PAVEMENT SPRINT CAR SCHEDULE

5/12 – Indianapolis, IN, O’Reilly Raceway Park
6/16 – Indianapolis, IN, O’Reilly Raceway Park
7/1 – Toledo, OH, Toledo Speedway
7/7 – Indianapolis, IN, O’Reilly Raceway Park
TBA – Winchester, IN, Winchester Speedway
8/6 – Salem, IN, Salem Speedway
8/18 – Indianapolis, IN, O’Reilly Raceway Park
9/8 – Indianapolis, IN, O’Reilly Raceway Park
10/13 – Indianapolis, IN, O’Reilly Raceway Park


I was under the impression that USAC would not have any Pavement races for the Sprint Cars but as you can see they are! I guess it will be a separate championship for Pavement and not count toward National Points. Bring on Thursday Night Thunder!!

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Why would you be under that impression? Nobody connected to USAC ever said Pavement was gone? Somebody saw a preview of the dirt schedule and started the rumor that there was no pavement on that schedule which was true. Remember USAC made a seperate Pavement and dirt Championship last year and both races where on one schedule. This year USAC put out seperate schedules cause not everybody is a dirt racer so they could plan their season.
:15:

Re: USAC Will Run Sprints on Pavement
 

This is a Regional series. Therefore regional payouts. Can't get cars now and then you cut the purse?

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Originally Posted by spankytoo:
This is a Regional series. Therefore regional payouts. Can't get cars now and then you cut the purse?

Were does this info come from? Heresay? Do you have a link to these "facts"?

You could be correct, but maybe not. If you are right, please accept my apology for doubting what you said.

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I know they did separate champs this season but still had an overall national champ that ran both. As much as I love dirt and haven't ran pavement for a few years, I still think the overall national champ should be the best of both worlds. JMO.

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sad to see only one usac race at winchester again this year. back in the day roger had three sprint-midget doubleheaders, and 4-6 stand-alone events for either the sprints or midgets in a single season. the doubleheaders were the best, lots of drivers doing double duty. didn't matter how many cars showed up, roger always filled the stands when usac rolled into winchester. my how times have changed....

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Hopefully this will help rejuvinize the pavement program, having 6 races right there in Indy. Facts are USAC has to get this program back to the point where it can drawl 25 to 30 cars at each event. Its really a joke when you show up and see just enough cars to fill the feature, but they still run a consolation events. Those races turn into a big follow the leader race. Nothing to race for. I actually think this is one of the smartest moves they have made.

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1200 to win, So it cost a team a with a two hundred mile round trip 400 just to get the car there and back, pay driver, tires, fuel, wear, You couldn't even break even with a win. Not saying a regional wouldn't work, But IMHO its doing everything it can to keep names and existing teams OUT.

Your going to associate the name Thursday Night Thunder, Pay a USAC purse or the TV cost to make sponsors happy. You certainly aren't going to charge less.

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I wonder if USAC has someone to replace Dean Mills yet? I sure hope they continue to stream without him.

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Originally Posted by Charles Nungester:
1200 to win, So it cost a team a with a two hundred mile round trip 400 just to get the car there and back, pay driver, tires, fuel, wear, You couldn't even break even with a win. Not saying a regional wouldn't work, But IMHO its doing everything it can to keep names and existing teams OUT.

Your going to associate the name Thursday Night Thunder, Pay a USAC purse or the TV cost to make sponsors happy. You certainly aren't going to charge less.

Where did USAC say $1,200.00 to win? I didn't read this. Do you have a link to it? Is this a fact or a rumor? Heresay? Whatcha say Chuck?

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Originally Posted by Seadog:
Were does this info come from? Heresay? Do you have a link to these "facts"?

You could be correct, but maybe not. If you are right, please accept my apology for doubting what you said.

Heresay at this point. I heard it from a reliable source. One of the USAC pavement regulars.

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To me this is real simple. Yeah, it's a "regional" series, and it's expensive to run if the rules don't change. It's definitely a good thing, and hopefully it grows, but the rules need to change.

There isn't a need to test for 4 hours before a race, and there isn't a need for more than one right rear a night. Why not run the Spartan Speedway (and hopefully South Bend now that they are running bi-weekly non wing sprints) rules, and integrate them into HOSS, AVSS, MSR, so that they can run. Just make it to where the tire you qualify on is the tire you run the rest of the night on. You can change left rears for stagger obviously. Take away testing, and practice time at the beginning of the night and you take away a LOT of the cost. Throw in this tire rule (and make the darn thing a brick (M55)) and go race.

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Originally Posted by Seadog:
Where did USAC say $1,200.00 to win? I didn't read this. Do you have a link to it? Is this a fact or a rumor? Heresay? Whatcha say Chuck?

I guess its hearsay but I'll just say its a Pretty good source that has no reason to lie about it and I'll leave it at that.

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The way it looks to me when a promoter runs sprints that race for less they get more cars. Isn't a big selling point of the Must See series that it is cheaper than USAC? They seem to draw more cars. I didn't say I understand it, just the way it looks to me.

Originally Posted by BrentTFunk:
The way it looks to me when a promoter runs sprints that race for less they get more cars. Isn't a big selling point of the Must See series that it is cheaper than USAC? They seem to draw more cars. I didn't say I understand it, just the way it looks to me.

Yes,Must See Racing is most likely cheaper than the USAC National series, unless one takes the purse and starts to "minus off" for a less than agreed upon full field number.

One thing about USAC was that every National pavement car was a 10/10ths car. They were very well financed teams fielding cars for well financed drivers who were either chasing National points and/or looking to be noticed down South (in my opinion). There weren't many Brian Gerster type guys racing to support the shows. Guys couldn't even come close to being competitive with the top teams anymore. So they either quit, or put a wing on and raced with guys of similar budgets. Dave Durnwald, Jeff Bloom, Denny England, Mike Blake, Marv Carman, and I'm sure there could be more added to the list. Must See Racing is simply taking this racing and providing more exposure, a better purse and giving it credibility. Not every last car in Must See is a 10/10ths car, but they are on the track and supporting the show, even if it is the B main.

My number argument with Nascab fans, and I still can't get even one to follow is this:

What makes fast cars fast?

It's slow cars.

25 cars that can run three wide but cannot separate from each other can be accomplished by mini stocks. For almost nothing! The slower cars in the Must See series, which are still freaking fast by the way, make the fast guys look even faster and add the lapped car dynamic to an event.

Must See had a 6,8,10 inversion this year. The 10 came up a lot and it pinned the fast qualifier behind nine very fast cars. The fast qualifier made it up once or twice at the most this year, some of which were 50 and 60 lap races.

THE WING IS THE ONLY MAJOR POINT OF DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE SERIES!

The value of the Must See show comes from bringing a good field of cars and delivering good action to tv. That is where the sponsors want to be and be seen.

I hope that I helped answer your question. I know it isn't exactly keeping with the title of the thread but you asked, and I tried to answer.
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I can not disagree with any thing you said Scott. I sure hope I did not seem negative against the Must See series. In fact the point I was trying to prove is maybe they are on to something. I have seen this in dirt racing also. Paying more money dosen't always mean higher car counts

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I have one question? Of the teams chasing National points, how many will still run pavement? Because now that the pavement insnt part of the National championship teams can cut a huge expense out of their 2011 budget. Because if we loose 10 cars for example, how will we replace them to make this pavement thing work? The wing guys just dont support USAC shows.

Absolutely no offense taken.

Must See is running a lean, efficient program that for whatever reason race teams are willing to get behind and support.
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This whole thread (and others before it) reminds me of something that happened last year (2009). I was standing in line to get a pit pass at a Baer Field HOSS race late in the year.
The gentleman in front of me gets a phone call. He talks a little bit and I could tell he was excited. He hangs up and turns to me and says. "A buddy of mine just talked to a "reliable source" with USAC and there's not going to be any pavement races next year!"
Remember, this was in 2009 and there was certainly pavement USAC racing in 2010.
But let's say for argument's sake that the USAC pavement series will be a regional series with a reduced purse. USAC tried this a couple of years ago and had races scheduled at Illiana and Plymouth as well as a couple more. They paid a greatly reduced purse ($200 to start, I can't remember what to win) and at the first race at Illiana, they only had something like six or eight cars. They ended up cancelling the rest of the races. Hopefully, USAC learned from that.
So if USAC reduces the purse much, all they will get is a bunch (a relative term) of kids spending their father's money hoping to get to "the next level." And if you look at the schedule, you'll see that it is full of big fast scary places. No short bull rings. You want experienced drivers at Winchester, Salem, etc. Even slow cars go 120-130 mph in the straights at those places. That's zipping right along in a non-winged car.
Scott is right. It takes slow cars to make the fast cars fast. And one thing some series' seem to forget, they need the slow cars as much as they need the fast cars. If you have a guy that is a feature winner at track "Y" and he goes and runs with series "X". And he is consistently running 10-12 with series "X" rather than running in the top five at track "Y" and sometimes winning, he not going to hang out just so he can see his car on TV for five seconds. And I don't care where you run; winning almost always pays more than 12th.
One of the reasons that USAC car counts suffer is that us poor guys can't show up and come even close to break even. But if I go to a HOSS race, as long as I can make the feature, I come close to breaking even. When the day comes that I can't make that feature, it's time to do something else.

Tom Paterson

I think that the biggest thing about the 2011 USAC Sprint Pavement is the TV deal. TV races are a different animal. Don't be surprised if you see more cars and new faces, regardless of the purse.
Posted via Mobile Device

Sam has a great point. When the TV lights come on it tends to bring out sponsors, which brings out cars. I hope the tv races are supported by good car counts. Is there a tv package announced yet?

These cars have to be safe, USAC legal equipment. That is one thing I will never begrudge USAC is trying to keep people safer. No '89 Gamblers with a pavement front axle. Teams that run this series are going to have to spend some real money to do it. If the purses of a National pavement race kept teams at home, paying less wouldn't seem to be the answer in this case. Unless teams are getting a lot of sponsors because of tv.

Calling the '11 season "regional" relieves the National Championship contenders of the obligation of a pavement ride. But this regional series is will have to be supported by full up National level cars, or have entirely new rules. The first guy that brings a National car to ORP to run and the cost to play just went back up.

Tom has raced on his budget for years. He supports the shows. And HOSS is glad to have him and his racecars every week. HOSS winners are about $300 less than Kok, Burg, Bloom winners, but HOSS starters make twice what those starters make. The HOSS series has always been about giving budget guys a place to go broke all season long instead of parking it by June. There are some guys running on better budgets than others, but they seem to be ok with spending enough to run well because they can. HOSS has seen guys come and go too. And we miss them because we do our little races together and enjoy helping and competing together.

Hopefully USAC can find what it takes to make it work. We as racers are almost like addicts sometimes. If there is any way to race somewhere we try to do it. Almost always to our detriment, but in the moment of victory it all fades away.

Its time to go racing. See y'all in Fort Wayne, because I can't make Duquoin.
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Originally Posted by short track scott:
HOSS winners are about $300 less than Kok, Burg, Bloom winners, but HOSS starters make twice what those starters make. The HOSS series has always been about giving budget guys a place to go broke all season long instead of parking it by June. There are some guys running on better budgets than others, but they seem to be ok with spending enough to run well because they can. HOSS has seen guys come and go too. And we miss them because we do our little races together and enjoy helping and competing together.

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Thats the ticket right there! Show me someone else paying $600 to start the feature each and every night. I think HOSS and MSR have the same bottom line budget. Not sure on AVSS. The 1 thing fans constantly forget, the slow guys are the ones that make up your car count. (think back in the day when Some sprint week races would have 70+ cars. how many of those cars never had a chance to make the field? 20 or so. add 20 cars to this years fields, what are there car counts now? 50-60+) Also I love your Nascar referance. That was great, its true! :9:

The 1 thing people on this board constantly forget about is the big sanctioning fee's. I garuntee you if tracks thought they could turn a profiet off of a usac sprint car pavement race, there would be races at every single paved track in Indiana. Right now the wing guys are much cheaper to bring in. Smaller purse, smaller sanctioning fee's, more cars, and a decent fan base. Hopefully usac is able to turn something around, but on pavement wings are the best bang for the buck.

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I wasn't aware that there was going to be any TV coverage. Obviously I didn't read the same information. Who is televising the pavement series?

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Originally Posted by BrentTFunk:
The way it looks to me when a promoter runs sprints that race for less they get more cars. Isn't a big selling point of the Must See series that it is cheaper than USAC? They seem to draw more cars. I didn't say I understand it, just the way it looks to me.

Seems that way, Although some give the Haans as the reason or the DT3 while most have both anyways. I think the PVille USAC/Reg show proved that many just won't run with em for some reason. Although the USAC portion was well attended.

Seems to me also, Where the money is, is where most teams aren't anymore. In the late 80s-90s Mel would put up a four or five thousand show out of nowhere and 50 sprinters would show, Once even against the kings Royal

---------- Post added at 09:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:32 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Honest-Sam:
I think that the biggest thing about the 2011 USAC Sprint Pavement is the TV deal. TV races are a different animal. Don't be surprised if you see more cars and new faces, regardless of the purse.
Posted via Mobile Device

What TV deal? best i know of its thats a Hearsay also.

I know theres several teams that have SC cars that simply parked em and still won't run em for whatever reason, Probably we invest in new tires, a couple motors ect and they'll pull the rug out again......

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Just out of curiosity, what kind of insurance do the other series provide. No matter what you say about USAC their insurance is at the top. Seems like that would be important to a person on a budget. Especially at tracks like Winchester and Salem. Scott thank you for the imformation you have provided. Also thank you Tom.

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are the usac tv races taped or are any of them live?

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http://www.usacracing.com/sprint_index/news_s/4261.html

Obviously, still more info on this that is not known as of yet. Also, the word around the campfire is that we have USAC's involvement in the TORC deal to thank for this, although I cannot personally confirm that.

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Originally Posted by Honest-Sam:
http://www.usacracing.com/sprint_index/news_s/4261.html

Obviously, still more info on this that is not known as of yet. Also, the word around the campfire is that we have USAC's involvement in the TORC deal to thank for this, although I cannot personally confirm that.

Sam,

That is what I read originally but I don't see anything about TV mentioned. Is the TV part you refer to coming from the "word around the campfire"?

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good point, but what was insurance 10 years ago? Maybe you are onto something else, less drivers, less to cover. If your comment was to me about my comment on the high fee's, I have 1 question for you, do you really need the usac semi at every race, or the numerouse vehicles that travel along? There is deffinatly a cost to that. Maybe they do, and I have to much of an old school mentality. I just wonder how much cost could be cut out of the program just by triming the fat. I just wonder at what point do dirt tracks start turning events down?

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Originally Posted by Mud Packer:
Sam,

That is what I read originally but I don't see anything about TV mentioned. Is the TV part you refer to coming from the "word around the campfire"?

You know what, maybe I messed up. :24: I reread it, and it doesn't actually say there's TV. I took "Thursday Night Thunder" to be comfirmation of that. But I may be reading into it.:10:

Sorry for the stir. Maybe the campfire will still be right though.

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Originally Posted by Honest-Sam:
You know what, maybe I messed up. :24: I reread it, and it doesn't actually say there's TV. I took "Thursday Night Thunder" to be comfirmation of that. But I may be reading into it.:10:

Sorry for the stir. Maybe the campfire will still be right though.

Sam,

When I originally posted the information from Curt Cavin's column in the Indianapolis Star, he said that "there is no TV contract at this time". That is why I asked if it came from around the campfire since I was confused.:14: Thanks for the reply. Maybe something will still develop.

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Originally Posted by 767:
good point, but what was insurance 10 years ago? Maybe you are onto something else, less drivers, less to cover. If your comment was to me about my comment on the high fee's, I have 1 question for you, do you really need the usac semi at every race, or the numerouse vehicles that travel along? There is deffinatly a cost to that. Maybe they do, and I have to much of an old school mentality. I just wonder how much cost could be cut out of the program just by triming the fat. I just wonder at what point do dirt tracks start turning events down?

Besides purse, insurance is the largest fee for a USAC race.
Generally, sanction/officials fees barely cover expenses/pay for USAC to officiate the race. That was my biggest misconception in previous years - I truly can't believe that "exhoribitant fees" have ever been used as an excuse for not hosting USAC.

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No Anderson on the pavement schedule. Got a track here in Mich I'd love to see these cars run at,:31: Flat Rock. It's a nice facility just South of Detroit??? :6:

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Originally Posted by Bad Dad 54:
No Anderson on the pavement schedule. Got a track here in Mich I'd love to see these cars run at,:31: Flat Rock. It's a nice facility just South of Detroit??? :6:

I knew Anderson wouldn't be hosting a USAC sprint car race this year. In fact, they didn't host one last year. They had a USAC midget show but not this year.

They run at the sister track in Toledo so we can only hope that someday they add Flat Rock. I would like to see them run there. Have they ever had a sprint show there before?

:)

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Usac has leased raceway park and it only pays $2500 to win! Great thanks miller -jason & jason

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Originally Posted by SUPERDUKE:
Usac has leased raceway park and it only pays $2500 to win! Great thanks miller -jason & jason

Do I sense heavy sarcasm in that thank you, Superduke?

We had our sprinter in mothballs. Does anyone know if Walmart will take mothballs back after they are opened? :5:

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Yes they do, but only for store credit!

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Are you going to race irp?

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Originally Posted by Mud Packer:
I knew Anderson wouldn't be hosting a USAC sprint car race this year. In fact, they didn't host one last year. They had a USAC midget show but not this year.

They run at the sister track in Toledo so we can only hope that someday they add Flat Rock. I would like to see them run there. Have they ever had a sprint show there before?

The sandusky 305 Sprinters ran at Flat Rock last year. In the past they have had full Sprints as well as Super Modifieds !