USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
by NSSN Staff

Brad Kuhn (17b) battles Caleb Armstrong earlier this season during Indiana Midget Week. USAC has mandated an RPM limit in its USAC Mopar National Midget Series. (David E. Heithaus Photo)

INDIANAPOLIS — USAC has mandated an RPM limit for engines competing in the midget division beginning next season. It has also approved the Esslinger EST as a sealed engine platform available for USAC competition.

While the move may not be popular with all competitors and all engine builders, USAC, which has seen car counts for some of its national midget events in the low teens, is clearly making an effort to reduce the costs of maintaining a midget racing engine.

According to the USAC statement, “RPM limits were achieved due to an extensive and ongoing program of data acquisition and analysis commissioned by USAC for Ilmor Engineering throughout 2010.

“Data was derived from a large number of comparable chassis dyno power curves representing the most efficient platforms, along with racing data acquired from a large variety of racing venues, including big and small ovals, dirt and pavement.”

USAC has set varied RPM limits for different types of engines:

-8,700 RPM for push-rod engines (166 c.i.)

-8,800 RPM for crossflow engines (174 c.i.)

-9,800 RPM for single overhead cam (161 c.i.).

According to USAC, these limitations result in a performance difference of less than four percent.

Additionally, the Esslinger EST has been approved as a sealed engine platform eligible for competition at all USAC midget racing events beginning with the 2011 racing season. The Esslinger EST is sealed and approved with a factory RPM limit of 9,400 RPM.

NSSN readers will recall that the 2.65-liter Esslinger EST engine was previously approved by the United States Speed Ass’n for competition next season. The engine is expected to produce 320 to 340 horsepower and sell for $22,000.

USAC will continue to monitor and evaluate RPM limits throughout the 2011 racing season, with several review points planned.

USAC personnel are currently working with the ignition suppliers (MSD and EFI) to ensure that additional costs are not incurred by midget owners for RPM controls and an easy solution for validation is provided to USAC and other sanctioning bodies for trackside evaluation.

Ilmor Engineering will conduct a seminar of their findings for interested midget teams and suppliers during the December trade shows, the time and date to be announced in the coming weeks.

“USAC has done its diligence on studying RPM limits through the Ilmor Engineering analysis,” says Dan Esslinger, president of Esslinger Engineering. “The timing is right for controlling RPM as a means to help contain cost escalation in midget racing over the years.”


http://www.nationalspeedsportnews.co...et-rpm-limits/

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

Paging Mr. Moore, paging Mr. Moore...

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

Well....How do you do this with a motor that runs a magneto? I realize it's ancient technology(Beat you to it Keith) but they do still exist.

An absolute waste of time and energy spent on this project....but at least now it looks like something is being done and it "sounds" good.

So now....in order to run USAC....you will more than likely have to send your "box" off to MSD,EFI or whomever....and have the program dropped in. That is fine...except if the program gets cleared or corrupted and has to be reset. If they trust the teams to do it themselves you're asking for a problem and what happens if the tach's battery mysteriously fails? Will there be a connection for an official to plug into and get the reading no matter what the tach says? Can't mount the box in the ****-pit because of the fear of traction control. It will have to be checked after quals and heats as well. Will teams now have to hire a softwear engineer to cheat the system just to keep up?

The sealed motor is interesting and is fine and all of that, but 6 on one hand and a half dozen on the other. At least it's a sealed motor that actually performs.

Looks like the door has been kicked wide open for your Eco-tec Keith. Better get in there.

I hope the deal with Ilmore was a partnership....because if there was money spent.....it was wasted. Those numbers are as random and unscientific as the lottery.

$ Probably would have been better spent on a study on the inverse effect of the unlimited useage of the spec tire verses the dwindiling car count.

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

Originally Posted by Seadog:
Paging Mr. Moore, paging Mr. Moore...

Stay on topic! :3:

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

Never worked on a midget motor a day in my life, but I do know that in the micro sprint world, if you crank a Kawasaki 636 against the box all the time, you aren't even in the powerband. Drop down a thousand RPMS or so, and you're in the ballpark then. Never know, may have just made some people faster and don't even know it.

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

Originally Posted by vukie:
stay on topic! :3:

:3::9:

---------- Post added at 02:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:17 PM ----------

Originally Posted by LEADERS EDGE:
Well....How do you do this with a motor that runs a magneto? I realize it's ancient technology(Beat you to it Keith) but they do still exist.

An absolute waste of time and energy spent on this project....but at least now it looks like something is being done and it "sounds" good.

So now....in order to run USAC....you will more than likely have to send your "box" off to MSD,EFI or whomever....and have the program dropped in. That is fine...except if the program gets cleared or corrupted and has to be reset. If they trust the teams to do it themselves you're asking for a problem and what happens if the tach's battery mysteriously fails? Will there be a connection for an official to plug into and get the reading no matter what the tach says? Can't mount the box in the ****-pit because of the fear of traction control. It will have to be checked after quals and heats as well. Will teams now have to hire a softwear engineer to cheat the system just to keep up?

The sealed motor is interesting and is fine and all of that, but 6 on one hand and a half dozen on the other. At least it's a sealed motor that actually performs.

Looks like the door has been kicked wide open for your Eco-tec Keith. Better get in there.

I hope the deal with Ilmore was a partnership....because if there was money spent.....it was wasted. Those numbers are as random and unscientific as the lottery.

$ Probably would have been better spent on a study on the inverse effect of the unlimited useage of the spec tire verses the dwindiling car count.

From just a fan that knows not about this programming, but could USAC be given the program and then dowload to each car right at the track? Might eliminate some cheating. Sorry if this is an ignorant question.

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

Where is a Volkswagen when you need it?
:35:

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

Will POWERi or Badger go along with this?

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

Earl told me 8400 max for #56...we are usually at 8200...with a mag...

Jason Dull
815 494 6002
jdull99@hotmail.com
jasondull.com (For all the Racing News)

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

should make racing easier :8:

Really? This is it?

WOW :29:

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

I am sure that Mr. Moore will have plenty to say about this and anything else that is bothering him today.:20: There is always a great solution to every problem.:15:

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

At the risk of absolutely ruining my reputation...

I think this is GREAT NEWS!

Our little community of Midget racers has a bad habit of standing around, with hands in pockets, and blabbing away abour every possible reason why an idea WON'T work - to the point where nothing ever is actually ATTEMPTED.

At some point, somebody needs to say 'Heck with all this talk, here is what we're gonna do' and get started. Will there be problems? Yes there will be. So, we fix 'em and keep moving forward. Less talking - more working.

We put a man on the moon, people... you trying to tell me we can't put rev limiters on Midgets if we put our minds to it? Of course we can!

I LIKE where this is headed. It does not exclude anyone. And it has the effect of extending duty cycles thus saving money (potentially).

ECOtecs racing in USAC? First I just have to work my way back onto their Christmas card list....:6:

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

Quick question, since I don't race midgets....

These rpm numbers...8700, 8800 and 9800....

These are LIMITS???

You meant to tell me that you midget racers have been cranking your motors PAST these numbers???

Some of you guys run past 9 grand? 10 grand?

Seriously?

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

Originally Posted by D.O.:
Where is a Volkswagen when you need it?
:35:

http://autocraftengines.com/

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

Originally Posted by :

some of you guys run past 9 grand? 10 grand?

Seriously?

yes

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

Originally Posted by Revolution Racing:
At the risk of absolutely ruining my reputation...

I think this is GREAT NEWS!

Our little community of Midget racers has a bad habit of standing around, with hands in pockets, and blabbing away abour every possible reason why an idea WON'T work - to the point where nothing ever is actually ATTEMPTED.

At some point, somebody needs to say 'Heck with all this talk, here is what we're gonna do' and get started. Will there be problems? Yes there will be. So, we fix 'em and keep moving forward. Less talking - more working.

We put a man on the moon, people... you trying to tell me we can't put rev limiters on Midgets if we put our minds to it? Of course we can!

I LIKE where this is headed. It does not exclude anyone. And it has the effect of extending duty cycles thus saving money (potentially).

ECOtecs racing in USAC? First I just have to work my way back onto their Christmas card list....:6:

There isn't a chance in hell your getting on that list. Shoot you weren't on it to begin with. :3:

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

Originally Posted by spicoli:
Quick question, since I don't race midgets....

These rpm numbers...8700, 8800 and 9800....

These are LIMITS???

You meant to tell me that you midget racers have been cranking your motors PAST these numbers???

Some of you guys run past 9 grand? 10 grand?

Seriously?

Someone said people were hitting 10500 at the Gold Crown this year. I don't know if that's true but that was the rumor I heard.

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

This is all great but how are you going to police this are you going to mandate a computer controlled ignition. That will go over as well as putting starter on the cars and be costly.

How about worrying a little less about engines and look at the cost of shocks and the fact you need a fleet of cars to run pavement and dirt. Let get back to using the same cars on dirt and pavement. This goes for Sprint Midgets and Silver Crown. Now take the cockpit adjustable shocks out of the cars.

All in all lets just go race and have fun. Race what you can afford to race and have fun doing it. I would say I race on a budget but I really don't have a budget to race with but still do what I can do with what I have and feel lucky that I get the chance to race.

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

Just out of curiosity, how does one enforce this rule? I assume tell-tale tachs can be rigged?

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

Originally Posted by spicoli:
Quick question, since I don't race midgets....

These rpm numbers...8700, 8800 and 9800....

These are LIMITS???

You meant to tell me that you midget racers have been cranking your motors PAST these numbers???

Some of you guys run past 9 grand? 10 grand?

Seriously?

Many Sprint Cars routinely are above 9000 grand.

Overhead cam motors are built to withstand higher rpms. The old Cosworth engines were often over 10 and 11 thou. Hell...We turned our V-6 9400 nearly everywhere and it lasted 15 races between valve springs.

It's just numbers.

No offense Dave but shocks are not even close to the top of the list as far as things that need to be regulated.

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

Originally Posted by Dick Monahan:
Just out of curiosity, how does one enforce this rule? I assume tell-tale tachs can be rigged?

It's pretty easy on a crank-triggered ignition, like an electromotive or MSD. Plug in a signal generator set to something just over the limit and if you have spark, you're busted. :3:

http://www.electromotive-inc.com/pro...simulator.html

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

This is just going to start new R&D. A new cam profile for a different RPM range. It is not going to solve cost issues. My solutiion is this: Give everybody a three year notice that in the year 2013 ALL MOTOR RULES WILL RETURN TO THE YEAR 1991!
If you are an in block cam you are a CAST IRON BLOCK and 166 Cubic Inch!
If you are an over head cam block you are a CAST IRON BLOCK and 155 Cubic Inch.
Volkswagen style is 140 Cubic Inch.
Dual overhead cam is 122 Cubic Inch.

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

I can see where USAC is trying to go with the concept of limiting RPMS. They comissioned Ilmor to perform dynamic analysis of the typical midget engine setups. This most likely included an analysis of modal performance (i.e. vibrations & harmonics) as well as strength/materials analysis given the engine operating at various RPMS. The numbers presented were probably the ranges with the best compromise of power vs. reliability. In other words, perhaps 8,700rpm for a pushrod engine hurts the HP/TQ, but yields gains in the modal performance department. Less vibration due to operating within an RPM range that does not contribute to harmonics would significantly increase the life of an engine. Apply the same concept to strength/materials of the engine components...you see where this is going.

Having said that, I like the eco-tech....bring it on.

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

Originally Posted by AsianPersuasian:
I can see where USAC is trying to go with the concept of limiting RPMS. They comissioned Ilmor to perform dynamic analysis of the typical midget engine setups. This most likely included an analysis of modal performance (i.e. vibrations & harmonics) as well as strength/materials analysis given the engine operating at various RPMS. The numbers presented were probably the ranges with the best compromise of power vs. reliability. In other words, perhaps 8,700rpm for a pushrod engine hurts the HP/TQ, but yields gains in the modal performance department. Less vibration due to operating within an RPM range that does not contribute to harmonics would significantly increase the life of an engine. Apply the same concept to strength/materials of the engine components...you see where this is going.

Having said that, I like the eco-tech....bring it on.

Possible...Possible. You're right....they could have taken all of the motors, put sensors on them and gathered base information on the material properties used to assemble the individual componets.

They could have ran all of the motors on a spintron doing extensive RPM simulations based on the various tracks that are run. Using the base information; they could have then inspected the used parts verses the new parts and found an optimum operating range.

That....or they could have taken three people on staff....placed blindfolds on their faces with the names of the different motors.....and bobbed for apples with RPMS on them. Whatever they pulled out....was the RPM.

More than likely....the scenario was that they took RPM readings during the season and came up with what they felt the average was.

I doubt a sincere investigation into harmonics was performed. If it was....there may have been a case for higher RPMS. Thing about a dirt racecar...it's those things like corners and heavy clay and traction and things like that which makes motors do an extensive amount of grunt work.

Using a high RPM reading as basically a guide for making motors live longer is pretty short sided. Those numbers are often a "flash" number. A number that is just for a brief moment. It's not a sustained number except at somewhere like Pheonix or Belleville or the alike. These motors don't operate constantly at the 10,200 range or 9,200 range. They spend most of their lives in the 4,200 to 6,000 range. That isn't going to change.

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

The Esslinger motors have a few more inches because they are actually a production-based design. The ST (and EST now) uses lots of stock parts and dimensions. The CORR/TORC/Lucas Pro-lite guys run a very similar motor on gas with an iron block and they make similar power. The aluminum block is a weight and reliability thing.

Since they are, they have a smaller (much smaller) bore center than the "half a V8" designs. They can't run anywhere near the intake valve size ( or should I say utilize?) that a 4.something bore motor has room for. You can put a bigger one in a small bore, but the cylinder wall shrouds the port.

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

I still say the easiest rule and cheapest for racers to cut cost is to cut the tire size in half.

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

how is this going to work for people who still run a mag?

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

We better be home free Randy!!!

Jason Dull
815 494 6002
jdull99@hotmail.com
jasondull.com (For all the Racing News)

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

West coast won't follow it. power i is not going to. Usac won't be able to police it they never can. They can't even pump a motor in calif. So there going to do this for there 12 nat. cars. Or are doing it for toyota. I don't beleive they will have a western states midget series next year with ventura sta:15:rting its own next year.

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester:
I still say the easiest rule and cheapest for racers to cut cost is to cut the tire size in half.

How about they make all the bleacher seats out of 2X4's on edge!:3:

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

Originally Posted by plum:
West coast won't follow it. power i is not going to. Usac won't be able to police it they never can. They can't even pump a motor in calif. So there going to do this for there 12 nat. cars. Or are doing it for toyota. I don't beleive they will have a western states midget series next year with ventura sta:15:rting its own next year.

The Ventura deal will be using the Esslinger EST that is the biggest part of this story to begin with. It's the cheapest brand new motor that will be competitive with USAC and which ever sanc. you choose to run with.

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

Can anyone say traction control ??

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

Originally Posted by Fontana180:
Can anyone say traction control ??

I'm sure that anyone can "say" it, but it's not going to happen with the Esslinger deal. It's already possible (and pretty easy, BTW) with any of the programmable MSD boxes. The Electromotive box that Esslinger is using (Tec-S) doesn't have the provision to switch anything on the fly (like the MSD does...lol). Seriously...the short course guys have been doing it for a LONG time. :)

The Esslinger EFI engine is going to be a sealed box AND you can't modify anything on any TEC unit (or even view the settings) without a copy of the .bin file in your possession. Been that way forever with Electromotive.

That and I understand (I have some pretty good contacts) that the serial plug is also going to be deleted (so good luck even communicating with it at all)...and that the sanctioning bodies are going to have their own ECUs for tech purposes. Potential cheater? "Here's your box".

Not to mention that it's essentially the same equipment that the USAC and NEMA Focus midgets have been running for years. It's the same ignition box -- the "XDi" -- only with injector outputs added.

Have they had problems with traction control?

sign me,

Electromotive Enthusiast

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

"Have they had problems with traction control?" Yes, out west!!!!

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

Originally Posted by Fontana180:
"Have they had problems with traction control?" Yes, out west!!!!

With the MSD guys?

It's pretty easy to do with those. Frankly, I'm surprised they even allow the boxes with alternate timing curves.

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

Scott...Right on all counts...You know they just took the most popular motors that were hand picked by the manufacturers not the average 12 Gearte or 11X that's living in a lot of midgets that are sitting in shops afraid to race. Pushrod motors, which ones? I've been through this instance in Drag Racing and the "big" money manufacturers always got the nod and the rules to their advantage.
If there are RPM limits make them all the same at 9000RPM. This gives no one a gear advantage both dirt and pavement. Yes, some guys with the OHC motors will have to tune but the "average" guy with the older motor will maybe be competitive depending on the chassis tuneup not the gear disadvantage. This would allow a bunch of cars to be competitive again. Then the drivers and the chassis setup will be the deciding factor.

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

Originally Posted by LEADERS EDGE:
That....or they could have taken three people on staff....placed blindfolds on their faces with the names of the different motors.....and bobbed for apples with RPMs on them. Whatever they pulled out....was the RPM.

Darn it, Scott. You just gave away their secret solution for rule change decisions!

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

Originally Posted by Seadog:
Paging Mr. Moore, paging Mr. Moore...

What do you want to Mr. Moore? :D

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

Originally Posted by spicoli:
Quick question, since I don't race midgets....

These rpm numbers...8700, 8800 and 9800....

These are LIMITS???

You meant to tell me that you midget racers have been cranking your motors PAST these numbers???

Some of you guys run past 9 grand? 10 grand?

Seriously?

I have heard the ford esslinger turning 13 plus man and that was 10 years ago

Re: USAC Sets RPM Limits For Midgets
 

Originally Posted by lovindirt:
I have heard the ford esslinger turning 13 plus man and that was 10 years ago

If someone was dumb enough to turn one that high, he was wasting his time and wasting parts. 10 years ago, they had the short heads and they just flat don't breathe up that high.