Pit Passes & Why You Should be Concerned
 

Pit Passes
Entry Fees
Exclusive Tire Deals
Dedicated Pavement Cars
$40,000+ Midget Engines
Xtra Cubes Awarded To Certain Engine Manufacturers
Titanium Engine & Race Parts
Drivers/Owners Paying Promoters To Entertain

What do all of the above have in common? These are issues that the racing community, especially midget racing, is currently experiencing. These issues didn't just appear all over the country overnight. They started somewhere in the United States at some point in time and have grown out of control. Someone came up with an idea and it was allowed to happen, grow and explode into a major cancer on the racing community. Someone started it and it grew and it grew and it grew till it was out of control. In the arbor world we have the Emerald Ash Borer that, for example, started in one county in Ohio and has now invaded all 88 counties and is destroying every Ash tree in its path. In the racing world the above list of items is doing much the same thing across America.

Now we have a new kid on the block. The "double pit pass" charge, or is it the triple pit pass charge or even quadruple. For those that aren't familiar with this practice it's not new. It's been practiced here and there in the past. This is the act of promoters reaching in your pocket at the back gate, specifically drivers and owners. If you are racing in two classes, they want double pit pass money. Three classes, triple money and so on. Where this practice first got started, I have no idea... maybe at a promoters convention where they possibly trade ideas on how to squeeze every dime out the racers. This practice is currently not wide spread but could take off soon. In fact, I mentioned this practice in a recent conversation with a promoter and his reaction? "Don't give me ideas." Take what he said seriously, people.

In another IOW thread, two fans asked me why was I involved in speaking out against this practice. Every racer in America should be outraged at this practice. Will this practice spread across the U. S.? I hope not. The only way a practice such as this is going to be shot down is if the racers don't allow it. Whatever it takes to not let it happen including refusing to race at tracks that endorse this practice.

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:15::15: :26::26:

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The Nostradamus of all things auto racing......

Thanks Don. :9:

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You certainly can't argue some of the points Don makes about the sky rocketing costs. However without the back gate, most race tracks would go out of business. Unfortunately if you want to race, its a necessary evil...

I think Don's point is that if the cost of the pit pass is to grant admission to the pits, help pay emergency services costs, officiating,and most importantly insurance, why should that entire fee be doubled if a driver wants to race a second division? In theory if I work on a second, or third car throughout the evening I would have to pay a second or third "pit pass"? It sounds like a second pit pass equates to an entry fee. If it is then just call it that! Make it the amount to cover the officiating, since everything else listed is a per person fee, and let the driver support your show!
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Don is right from the point that not every driver and/or team owner has a lot of money to race. And, most of us don't do this for the money, God knows! We do it for the love of the sport, but sometimes racing expenses get out of hand. That's why you see lower car counts right now at the end of year, people have run out of money. By the time a team owner goes through the gate, we've already spent money on new tires, fuel to get there and to pay pit passes. Most times we come out of the gate without making money. I'm not here to *****, and I know promoters and tracks need to make money too, but should not always be at the expense of the racers and team owners.

I'm glad that Granite City did the right thing for this weekend.

Thanks, and let's go racing!

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So to use your logic, on only having to pay once. It would make sense that the promoter would only have to pay once. After all, it is only one driver.

When I was in Texas, it was common to have drivers in mulitple classes, and the driver had to pay a pit pass per car that he entered. It was known and accepted.

I think that this horse is pretty dead. BTW How many promoters leave the sport after three years. I think I read that it was over 50%. I guess that they were making too much money to continue.

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Don even I must admit that some of the points at the top of your post have some merit. But as usual you over dramatize the issue to the point that you are not taken seriously by most IOW'ers. In fact I am not sure what you are doing wasting your time constantly pounding this issue on this board. Maybe instead you could do something useful like find a solution to the problems you think exist. Network with other owners and try to put an end to these practices but please save us the constant posts complaining about an issue that you could actually do something about.
As for the double pit pass issue. Do you own more cars at home than you have drivers for them? I do and I pay insurance on EACH of the cars even though I dont have enough drivers to drive them all at once. Why should I pay insurance on 3 cars when my family can only possibly drive only 2 at once? Is that fair? I dont think so but there isnt much I can do about it, either I pay it or go without and then cant get a licence plate. The same principle somewhat applies here. You enter 2 cars and you need to pay the insurance on each not on just the one driver. Call it an entry fee, pit pass, whatever you want its still the same deal.
So Don if I have managed to get under your skin again, tough noogies, people like you who only want to complain and never take any action put me to :29:

If a pit pass equals an entry fee you are right guys. Pay it per entry. But you aren't insuring each car (seriously?), just the driver.

The crux of my point was that if the line item costs covered by a pit pass are like this: Admission $12, Insurance $8, scoring $5 for a $25 pit pass the admission and insurance don't have to be paid a second time. You're in, and you're insured. You can't double insure yourself!

I'm not going to spend any more time on it because it is essentially arguing semantics. If it feels right to pay it, pay it no matter what it is called.
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I usually leave Don's posts alone because I am numb to them, but...

I too don't understand why there has to be post after post complaining about everything under the sun. I still fail to understand why Don owns race cars with everything that is wrong with racing. I know you are doing us fans a big favor by being an owner. That is how you come across most times. I know, we just buy tickets and beer according to you. I do that 50-60 times a year. Last time I checked that costs money. Does it cost the same to run a car? Of course it doesn't....not even close. Just remember: If there is no fan, there is no owner. So we do our part as well.

I appreciate that you care about the issues....I really do. An owner shouldn't just roll over and take whatever is given. However, just ******** on a message board isn't really doing much... You need to find a different way. I don't see other owners on here complaining. I'm sure they have some of the same concerns you do. Isn't there a way to talk with them instead of just getting on a message board and complaining? Band together? Not saying it can be done. Just saying the posting of complaint after complaint isn't doing anything. There has to be something else that can be done...

As for the subject: Double pit pass fees are wrong. If I pay to get in the pits, then I am in the pits. I can't be in the pits twice. If the fee is an entry fee, that is different.....

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Just wondering how many thousands of times that we can :deadhorse:

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Originally Posted by Rpracing1:
Just wondering how many thousands of times that we can :deadhorse:

Follow along closely and you will see that it is an infinite number of times.:15: For some folks message board ******** never seems to end.

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Message boards are the places that people come to when they want to make a complaint but not a difference. There isn't a grassroots campaign to be started here. Owners and drivers are inherently foolish and will do almost anything to get a car on the track so arguing about a $25 pitpass when four cylinders cost the same as eight is futile.

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On a positive note... Congrats to Don on his AMCT owner championship - althought it appears there is a three way tie. Hopefully the tie break is not by alphabetical order and you all three get to split the owner point fund equally!

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I think Don makes a lot of sense on many points. I guess you can put me into the fruit loop list too.:10:

But, whatever happened to a promoter promoting his race to draw fans into the stands so that back gate doesn't have to be a necessary evil that's it's turned into? Just asking.

The thing is this, when you are putting on a race, you have a few factors. The track I'm going off of was using the national average of people that come with each car, which at that time was around 3.85. He would take 40 dollars per car and put that towards the purse, along with a percentage of front gate and concessions. If you do the math, that isn't all that much. Granted, this isn't sprints or midgets either.
So with that being said, if I enter in two classes, that promotor has to pray to god I have twice the people of normal so he can make his commitments.

I agree that it shouldn't happen, and the driver shouldn't pay a pit pass at all, and just pay the racing fee. Literally, that would take care of the whole thing, and solve it all. Free pit passes for drivers, they jusy pay an entry fee per class. Makes sense to me.
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This topic is somewhat controversial as validated on another thread. I started this topic because it has a direct link to the escalating costs of racing and more expense equals more race teams limiting their racing or not racing at all. The cost of maintaining a race team is significant. The issues I listed in the first post are real issues that are not going away.

Of the 17 posts so far, 5 people have decided to go off topic, get personal or not post any opinion. My name is on the topic for this discussion and I gladly and proudly sign my name. For the 5 people that apparently have no intention of seriously participating in a discussion about an issue that is very important to the racing community, please don't read my posts. Move on. You've expressed your displeasure at reading what I have to say, so please go to another thread unless you seriously want to participate in a discussion or better yet, put me on ignore if it's that painful to read. I can tell you that the private messages I received and the feedback I get at the race tracks far outweighs what the you distrackers on here post. Again to the 5 people and anyone else who does not want to particpate in the discussion without getting personal, please move on to another thread. If you have nothing to add to the topic, MOVE ON, please. Learning to respect other opinions is part of being a good participant on IOW and it's part of the forum rules.

And thanks to all the others who have written some great posts! Glad to see some people on IOW who actually can think through a topic and post an opinion and leave it at that.

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I am not a racer, but this is where i feel about it. If it helps the track, then so be it. Who knows, if more people do it, it could raise winning purses. I do see the other side on paying full price, but maybe half price for the second and more class?

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Originally Posted by terrehautian:
I am not a racer, but this is where i feel about it. If it helps the track, then so be it. Who knows, if more people do it, it could raise winning purses. I do see the other side on paying full price, but maybe half price for the second and more class?

If I take your argument... how about if the fans are willing to pay, say, $10 for, for example, midgets, add three support classes to it and the fans would now pay $40 admission. If it helps the track, so be it, to quote you. With that are you still showing up for the races? How about 5 classes at $50?

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Whoever posted that without the fans there wouldn't be car owners is ignoring all the amatuer racing that goes on. Very few carowners come close to breaking even on what the tracks pay. Some branches of racing, like the SCCA, don't even try to attract paying spectators.
If we are really honest about it, today's top level racers [NASCAR, IRL, ARCA] don't race for purse payouts either. Last weekend Road America hosted the fall runoffs. There were probably more people in the pits than in the stands.
I agree with most of Don Moore's posts even though I only own sportsman midgets. If you want to avoid the "SCCA model" being our only racing option in the future you should be concerned about those practices too.
As a fan I never cared how much money the race teams lost until they stopped showing up to entertain me.

Chuck Schultz
Winfield, Illinois
IRS #6 Sportsman midget carowner

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Yes and look who pulled their midgets off the track when the sponsorship went away....... TSR and to a point, KKR.

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Originally Posted by short track scott:
If a pit pass equals an entry fee you are right guys. Pay it per entry. But you aren't insuring each car (seriously?), just the driver.

The crux of my point was that if the line item costs covered by a pit pass are like this: Admission $12, Insurance $8, scoring $5 for a $25 pit pass the admission and insurance don't have to be paid a second time. You're in, and you're insured. You can't double insure yourself!

I'm not going to spend any more time on it because it is essentially arguing semantics. If it feels right to pay it, pay it no matter what it is called.
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I'm not criticizing you, just trying to figure this out in my head. I haven't been a regular in the pits since the late 80's in California, so I'm a little fuzzy on this. Here's the thing that comes to my mind. If a team buys pit passes and some of the money is considered an "entry fee", how does that fly when fans buy the passes? What is the difference, since the price is the same? If it was "itemized", and some of it was considered an entry fee, then the fans who aren't part of a team shouldn't have to pay the part of the pit pass that is an entry fee. At the same time, if a driver has multiple cars, then additional entry fees for each car shouldn't be the same price as additional pit passes. What is the present rule for a trailer that brings a back up car? Do they pay for each car?

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The double pit pass deal involves DRIVERS/OWNERS and not pit crew. The entry blank of a promotion did not specify if both the driver and owner would pay the double fee. For sure, though, one of them would have to. That particular promotion had no entry fee listed for the open competition sprints but midgets are being charged $100-150 entry fee for up to three night racing. Pit passes are listed as $30-35, depending on the night. For that particular promotion, the double pit pass fee has been waived after a debate with a lot of negative reaction on this web site.

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The bottom line is that in this sport where there is virtually no outside revenue from meaningful sponsorship or television, the purse and a fair profit for the promoter has to come out of a combination of the front gate, back gate and concessions.

A promoter can make a fair estimate of how many people and cars are going to attend a particular event. They then set a price for both the front and back gate based upon the estimated number of paying customers on both sides in order to make it work.

I've seen promoters let fans in for free for pretty big shows and hope they can make it on a huge grandstand concession and pit gate, but quite honestly that's a roll of the dice most promoters aren't going to take.

If the promoter sets the pit pass too high and grandstand too low, then the racers will gripe about the back gate supporting the show. Set the grandstand too high and pit gate too low and the grandstand fans will complain about too high of a ticket price. Try to get it out of a $4.00 hot dog and everyone will be griping. Lower the purse to where the admission prices will very reasonable on both the front and back side and owners and drivers will say the event isn't paying enough to be worth their time.

The only solution I can see that is going to change the equilibrium is for the owners/drivers to understand that it's their responsibility to try to put butts in the seats too. At the end of the day there are two groups of people leaving the track with money: The promoter and the racers. The fans don't get paid for having a good night at the track.

What does this mean? It means that the imaginary line between the grandstands and pits has to be removed. The drivers have to become a bigger part of the "show". The grandstand fans have to get to know the drivers and become engrossed in the drama of the night and season. I'm not blaming owners and drivers here, because promoters usually don't ask for help from them. But promoters and drivers have to realize that the only way both of them are going to leave at the end of the night with more money than they do now is to put butts in the grandstand seats.

How many tracks make any real effort at making sure fans get to know the drivers? Except for hard core fans, can most fans tell you whether a particular driver has blonde hair or dark? An approximate age? About their family? Who their rivals are? Whether they are still peeved off about what happened the week before?

The drivers are the show. Yet except for what happens on the track, our sport doesn't use the drivers much to help build or increase a fan base. That has to change.

A promoter can run a special and let the local Rotary club in free for a night, but without that new fan becoming hooked on the stories and faces and drama of the track, he isn't coming back as a paying customer next week.

Again... it's not the driver's fault. I own several cars and have never asked my drivers to do anything to significantly help the "show" other than to go out and race and sign an autograph when asked.. Perhaps I need to re-think that a little.

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Who has done the "pay for as many pit passes as classes you are running"? I've never seen this done?

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Well Versed by "bloard".........Thank You!

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Please take this for what's it worth and I cannot guarantee it, but I heard recently that a sprint car promotion in Indiana during the "big big week" reels in a $50-75,000 profit for the promoter. If that kind of money is being taken then why are the drivers/owners paying to entertain? Remember, I'm not advocating that the promoter shouldn't sell pit passes to individuals other than drivers/owners. But as BLoard pointed out, the drivers/cars are the THE entertainment.

Now, for example, and I don't mean to offend, but, announcers are apparently getting around a minimum of $150 per night and I doubt that they buy a pit pass. Are good announcers part of the show.. yes they are. But is an announcers services worth more than, as Bloard pointed out, the main attraction for the evening, drivers/cars. Obviously, announcers have drawn the lined of what they command and they are getting it apparently. On the other hand, the biggest majority of the stars of the evening do not leave or clear $150 for the evening.

EMT's are paid around $32 an hour for their services. Do we come to the track to see the EMT's? I don't think so. Here again they have a bottom line for what they will accept for showing up.

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I understand your point Don, but think you are oversimplifying by talking about announcers and EMT's. There's a price for recreation and entertainment that I'm willing to pay as an owner in order to be able to race my car. That's my hobby. It's not a business or occupation. And, as most hobbies, I don't do it expecting that I'm going to get paid for it. I just hope that at the end of the night I'm as close to paying the bills as I can be. Any profit from a night is gravy.

The EMT may or may not be a race fan and is there doing their occupation. Their hobby might be fishing. Don't assume that everyone at the track is there by choice. The hot dog vender gets paid to be there as well, but they aren't seeing much racing selling the dogs.

Now.. .as I said, the drivers and cars are the show and I agree that to an extent they shouldn't be paying to put on the show. But I would like to know your bright line on who on the back side shouldn't be paying?

Should my driver walk in free because he's the show? Should he pay something for his insurance coverage?

Should I as an owner walk in free because without my car, there is no show?

Should my wife walk in free because without her letting me blow this money on race cars there wouldn't be a car?

Should my crew walk in free because they are the ones making sure the car runs to put on the show?

Your answer to all of these might very well be "Yes". And I ask these questions sincerely to flush out your position in more concrete terms. Everyone in the pits can't walk in free or else nobody's going to pay to go to the grandstands. So where does this line on who shouldn't pay to put on the show get drawn?

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Originally Posted by DonMoore10:
Please take this for what's it worth and I cannot guarantee it, but I heard recently that a sprint car promotion in Indiana during the "big big week" reels in a $50-75,000 profit for the promoter. If that kind of money is being taken then why are the drivers/owners paying to entertain? Remember, I'm not advocating that the promoter shouldn't sell pit passes to individuals other than drivers/owners. But as BLoard pointed out, the drivers/cars are the THE entertainment.

Now, for example, and I don't mean to offend, but, announcers are apparently getting around a minimum of $150 per night and I doubt that they buy a pit pass. Are good announcers part of the show.. yes they are. But is an announcers services worth more than, as Bloard pointed out, the main attraction for the evening, drivers/cars. Obviously, announcers have drawn the lined of what they command and they are getting it apparently. On the other hand, the biggest majority of the stars of the evening do not leave or clear $150 for the evening.

EMT's are paid around $32 an hour for their services. Do we come to the track to see the EMT's? I don't think so. Here again they have a bottom line for what they will accept for showing up.

How much is that same promoter who you claim made $50-75,000 losing on weekly shows? Rain outs etc affect the total for the YEAR. And I was a paramedic and I know of ZERO emt's making $32 an hour, that's high pay for most paramedics, and an announcer getting $150??????...christ the stuff you come up with just because you don't want to pay to play is getting out of control. It's simple, I don't want to pay high green fees s I don't golf, I don't want to pay high movie ticket prices so i don't go, I can't afford a race car so I don't have one BUT if I did then it would be because I wanted one and I understand it's a HOBBY at most levels. Sorry DON but you're not a pro, you race small tracks, in front of small crowds, crowds that probally don't support the costs for YOU to go race.... it's simple, either PAY or don't play

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First off, I don't think that most announcers foot their living by announcing except for a few such as Rob Klepper who does a fine job and works full time at his craft but not necessarily at a race track. I would even go so far as to say that many do it as a hobby.

As far as who gets in free, here is my position:

Drivers are the show risking their lives. Free back gate period.

Owners are the show also via their cars that fans like to see. big investment. Free back gate also. What about cars owned by multiple owners? One free pass. Beyond that, it's up to the multiple owners to work out any fees.

All others, pit crew, spectators, etc pay for a pit pass.

Now my $64,000 questions is: What evidence or proof does anyone have that promoters are going to go broke based on free passes for owners and drivers? I haven't seen it, so we really don't know. Some close the track doors, just like a corner business, as the result of just being bad business people.

---------- Post added at 04:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:41 PM ----------

Originally Posted by racerdog45:
And I was a paramedic and I know of ZERO emt's making $32 an hour, that's high pay for most paramedics, and an announcer getting $150??????...christ the stuff you come up with just because you don't want to pay to play is getting out of control.

The EMT fee was quoted to me by a promoter in Indiana.

The announcer fee was given on this message board by a well know announcer contributor to these threads.

And Racerdog45, I didn't know you followed my race team around 24/7. Your conclusions are very inaccurate about the crowds and tracks. Again, this thread is not about my race team. Please move on to another thread if you don't want to keep personalities out of this discussion.

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Im not a owner but I can see a lot of Don's concerns and claims but one fact is.

Owners don't start bringing their cars to the tracks, there isn't going to be midget racing much longer in OH/IND period. Im at the point of not bothering to go to one, you don't know if there will be 2 or 22 and the latter isn't too respectable for a BIG MIDGET SHOW. The Organizations schedualing against each other, The owners refusing to run unless............................ WHATEVER.

BYE, BYE FANS!!!!!!!!! so the only way your going to get a chance to race is your own back gate.

Be realistic Don, You know it as well that without a major sponsor, Your not going to come close to breaking even let alone make a dime. I like a lot of the things you do, like putting potentially very good drivers like Beauchamp and others in a good ride. But the fans need to see more or they won't be there to support it at all.

It all appears as. "We want 5g to win 500 to start", but the count to support it or even build a fan base to have it is going away.

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Don,

I think the only question at this point is - What are you going to do to correct this problem?

Regards,

Rob Keelan

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Nobody's going to go broke doing what you suggest Don. It's really just a shell game anyway isn't it? I mean, is there really any difference if a purse is $50 less across the board and drivers and one owner gets their $25 pit pass free?

Is $1450 to win and $200 to start vs. $1500 and $250 really going to change the economics of your racing or my racing operation? Are you more likely to show up at the former rather than the latter?

Frankly that's what I view tow money as... My pit pass reimbursement if I have a bad night.

Knoxville does a deal where I think 5 people per car can purchase a reduced priced pit pass. If I recall it's $15 instead of $25. I kind of like that. But it's still just money coming out of the same pot. I'm sure if they charged the full $25 per pit pass there would be a few more hundred dollars to throw into the purse at the end of the night.

Serious questions... the answer very well might be Yes. Would more cars show up if each car got 4 free pit passes and $100 to start instead of $200?

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Originally Posted by DonMoore10:
First off, I don't think that most announcers foot their living by announcing except for a few such as Rob Klepper who does a fine job and works full time at his craft but not necessarily at a race track. I would even go so far as to say that many do it as a hobby.

As far as who gets in free, here is my position:

Drivers are the show risking their lives. Free back gate period.

Owners are the show also via their cars that fans like to see. big investment. Free back gate also. What about cars owned by multiple owners? One free pass. Beyond that, it's up to the multiple owners to work out any fees.

All others, pit crew, spectators, etc pay for a pit pass.



The EMT fee was quoted to me by a promoter in Indiana.

The announcer fee was given on this message board by a well know announcer contributor to these threads.

And Racerdog45, I didn't know you followed my race team around 24/7. Your conclusions are very inaccurate about the crowds and tracks. Again, this thread is not about my race team. Please move on to another thread if you don't want to keep personalities out of this this discussion.

I doubt any promoter told you his costs and I know what EMTs make, show me a link to the thread that an announcer stated his pay. I'm sorry you can't handle the TRUTH. All you do is either ***** about what it costs you or brag about beating up a bunch of minisprints on an 1/8th mile track. I am pretty sure that the day you started racing you knew you had to pay to play, you and only you chose to do so. If you're so unhappy then you have 2 choices, QUIT or since you're so smart and claim to know so much and supposedly are such a great music promoter then YOU should either rent/buy a track and promote OR start a series. Of course you will do none of the above, just get on here and make yourself look like a bitter person who is afraid to go race USAC or big paying shows, the same big paying shows you ***** don't exsist.....enjoy your hatred of racing, I'll enjoy my love of the hobby. And I think everything I stated pretty much is on topic, but then again I'm responding to you and figured you were keeping to the topic.....lol

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If the midget orgs ever decided that they were going to do something about the rediculous costs of running a midget team, this discussion may not need to take place. Case in Point:

MIDGET AND SPRINT CAR MAG OCT 2010 page 25

Metric Racing engines in Tulsa, OK

Ecotec 2.4 liter midget engine COMPLETE $10,995.

I've printed this before and here goes again: I have a fresh midget engine in my garage that I bought that was rebuilt before the sale and the price tag for the rebuild was $7600.

Now.. There's not much difference between $7600 and $10,995.

I am well aware of many that come on here praising the Esslinger XT engine for $23,000. sorry... that's way too much for owners to be spending on an engine for the purses paid.

Bottom line, if we can buy a brand new midget engine for a little more than a rebuild.... this is a no brainer. What part of cheap do the midget orgs not understand?????

---------- Post added at 05:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:02 PM ----------

Originally Posted by racerdog45:
just get on here and make yourself look like a bitter person who is afraid to go race USAC or big paying shows, the same big paying shows you ***** don't exsist

Sounds to me like you're a bit jealous, racerdog, of my track record. We have won many, many times on Big tracks and small tracks with more midget orgs than many of the cars that run the big box shows. Sorry to ruin your day.

For your information, you may want to check the entry list for the big midget show this weekend and you'll find that I have plenty of company as far as not participating. Since you brought it up, you may want to carefully see who's racing in St. Louis this weekend. Just reporting the facts. About half of the St. Louis area drivers/cars have elected to stay home according to the list and according to the list many of the really great St. Louis drivers, like at least one past champion, are staying away. And there are probably 250-300 midgets in a 500 mile radius of St. Louis. Most of them won't be there either. Again just reporting the facts based on the published entry list. Care to explain why?

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Lets see...

Announcer shows up at 3pm and goes home at 11pm = 8 hrs 150.00/8=$18.75/hr

Driver shows up at 6pm runs 5 hot laps, 2 qualifing laps, 10 lap heat and 25 lap main on 1/4 mi track (avg time working figuring 15sec/lap=10.5 minutes + push of line up laps,etc. we'll call it 15 minutes of work). If he gets $50 divide that by the time spent working it comes out to $200/hour.

Car owner gets his wallet out for a pit pass = 30sec, wrenches on the car a bit - hopefully not a lot - maybe works for 30 minutes total for the evening so if he gets $50 that is $100/hour.

Looks way better than the announcer dont even think about how underpaid the guy is that has to man the gate where the cars come on the track, he gets there at 4, gets pelted by dirt and mud all night, sometimes yelled at by drivers and car owners all for 20 or 30 bucks - that's about $4/hour...

Re: Pit Passes & Why You Should be Concerned
 

Originally Posted by Big Willy:
Lets see...Driver shows up at 6pm runs 5 hot laps, 2 qualifing laps, 10 lap heat and 25 lap main on 1/4 mi track (avg time working figuring 15sec/lap=10.5 minutes + push of line up laps,etc. we'll call it 15 minutes of work). If he gets $50 divide that by the time spent working it comes out to $200/hour.

Car owner gets his wallet out for a pit pass = 30sec, wrenches on the car a bit - hopefully not a lot - maybe works for 30 minutes total for the evening so if he gets $50 that is $100/hour.

You can't be serious. Do you work at Disneyland?

Re: Pit Passes & Why You Should be Concerned
 

I clicked on the thread wondering who would be slamming Don today only to read a very good discussion between several people on the topic of pit passes. There is no doubt something needs to be done on both sides of the fence to help promote (save) open wheel racing as we know it. This is not a slam to anyone just saying it is nice to see a civil discussion trying to solve a problem. I know that without Josh working two jobs and help from sponsors,friends and fans we would have to park our race car for good.

Jerry #66j
stida.com

---------- Post added at 04:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:42 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Jerry Spencer:
I clicked on the thread wondering who would be slamming Don today only to read a very good discussion between several people on the topic of pit passes. There is no doubt something needs to be done on both sides of the fence to help promote (save) open wheel racing as we know it. This is not a slam to anyone just saying it is nice to see a civil discussion trying to solve a problem. I know that without Josh working two jobs and help from sponsors,friends and fans we would have to park our race car for good.

Jerry #66j
stida.com

Never Mind

Jerry #66j

Re: Pit Passes & Why You Should be Concerned
 

I totally understand where Don is coming from.

So how can the dilema be fixed?

I wonder how a race track ownership "Co-op" would work?
Much like a farmer owned co-op you see in ag states.

The car owners and/or interested parties would take part in the ownership.
You could have overall ownership shares and/or yearly shares also.

Instead of running for a purse that is a fraction of the nights revenue,
you would be racing for a much bigger take. The proceeds of the night paid to the shareholders thus helping finance partners racing. Figure out ways too actively increase purses.
With the number of midget, sprint and champ car owners in Indiana alone, why couldn't something like this work?
If this was successful it would help with purses everywhere, because you could show the financial model and purse model could work.
If you build something special you could definately get advertisiers.

Example: Build a big half mile-quarter mile combo track about 15 miles or so south of Indy. Advertise well. Build stands for 20k people to start with. If you could incease purse size plus know you were making money from the event it's self, could create car counts that would be really big.
People would probably come to see car counts of 50-70 cars.
Have many more midget races and combine them with sprint shows.
Also have champ car nights as many of the ownership group would benefit from that also.

I think it would be worth examining a business case for something like this.

Re: Pit Passes & Why You Should be Concerned
 

Originally Posted by DonMoore10:
Learning to respect other opinions is part of being a good participant on IOW and it's part of the forum rules.

When are you going to start, Don?

This discussion should have been over when TAMMY GUNDAKER, THE PROMOTER OF TRI-CITY SPEEDWAY posted this:

Originally Posted by Revin:
Drivers will pay only 1 pit pass per day even if they drive more than 1 division. There will NOT be an additional pit pass charge for driving a seperate class


Thank you,
Tammy Gundaker/Promoter
Tri-City Speedway
636-448-9111 (Cell)

I noticed Don ignored this the first time around as well. I'm sure he'll ignore it again. No other track that USAC, MSCS, local tracks, or POWRi run at charge multiple pit passes for driving multiple divisions. As with many of Don's discussions, this too is irrelevant.