US 24 Midget clash
 

Don't forget this coming Saturday Sept. 18th at the U.S. 24 Speedway NON-WING MIDGET CLASH. guaranteed payout regardless of car count. $700.00 to win and $75.00 to start:8: This is an Outlaw Race, no weight limit and no tire rule.:6: Midgets, All Up-Right Mini Sprints, Focus Cars, Kenyon Midgets and TQ's are all welcome. :31:The track is located 7 miles West of Logansport,In or 13 miles East of Monticello In. on HWY 24.The Up-Right Mini Sprints will be running NON-WING at the Tulsa Shootout this winter. The tracks are very comparable in size, get your cars ready for the Tulsa Shootout!!!!!!!!!:) This race is sponsored by Dr. Michael Bagnoli of the Oral and Marillofacial Surgery Center in Lafayette, In.:9:so come and join us for a fun night of racing and great fun. call for more information, track: (574) 753-6922, Jim Wood: (219) 863-6618 or Jerry Tague (765) 589-3045

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How many "midgets" do you expect? Lets hear it from the Midget, FF and Kenyon guys and gals.... Who plans on showing up???

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anyone??

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Jimmy Wood and Jerry Tague both has had calls about guys bring there Midgets, don't know for sure just who or how many will show. there will be several Mini Sprints there. Hoping the weather will be better this time around. If you have a Midget bring her to the US 24 Raceway this Saturday.

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don't forget today is the NON-WING MIDET CLASH at U.S.24 all Midgets, All Up-Right Mini Sprints, Focus cars, Kenyon Midgets, and TQ's are all welcome. Racing around 7:00 This is an outlaw race, no weight limit and no tire rule. hope you can make it.

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Around 10 of us from Ohio will be there, should be a great night.

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twenty plus cars showed up. Track wasnt the best kept raining off and on.. Cottle was a rocket in the main the leader spun all alone Shane hit him and got a flat on lap 6 or 7 changed tire and came back thru the field to third or fourth i think.. Thnking Jacob Wilson was the kid that won he was in Don Moore's car was on a rail also..

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not the best kept. thats and under statement,you should have ben sitting there i was.the race track was as bad if not worse then N.V.but none the less, im glad that we got to go throw some dirt around at logansport.thanks U.S 24 and staff
J&S Racing#14

Can someone please post full results. Thanks
Posted via Mobile Device

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How many full midgets ran?

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This was yet another event displaying the fact that the midgets with motorcycle engines can compete with what are known as "full" midgets. The fact is you can't tell the difference unless you examine the left side of the car. The cycles were every bit as fast as the fulls. It's time that the sanctioning organizations get over this and let the cycles compete with everyone else. I see only pluses if this would happen.

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Originally Posted by DonMoore10:
This was yet another event displaying the fact that the midgets with motorcycle engines can compete with what are known as "full" midgets. The fact is you can't tell the difference unless you examine the left side of the car. The cycles were every bit as fast as the fulls. It's time that the sanctioning organizations get over this and let the cycles compete with everyone else. I see only pluses if this would happen.

Wasn't trying to strike a nerve I was (and still am) wondering. Glad you got a win Don, and very happy to see you put Jacob Wilson in your car. I got off work too late to make it anywhere last night, but was considering this show. That is why I wondered how many full midgets ran. Congrats again.

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Originally Posted by DonMoore10:
This was yet another event displaying the fact that the midgets with motorcycle engines can compete with what are known as "full" midgets. The fact is you can't tell the difference unless you examine the left side of the car. The cycles were every bit as fast as the fulls. It's time that the sanctioning organizations get over this and let the cycles compete with everyone else. I see only pluses if this would happen.

Yea on a small bullring they can, but in no way shape or form on a 1/4 mile or larger..

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Originally Posted by 9racing:
Yea on a small bullring they can, but in no way shape or form on a 1/4 mile or larger..

They did at Twin Cities its 3/8 mile.

Re: US 24 Midget clash
 

Originally Posted by DonMoore10:
This was yet another event displaying the fact that the midgets with motorcycle engines can compete with what are known as "full" midgets. The fact is you can't tell the difference unless you examine the left side of the car. The cycles were every bit as fast as the fulls. It's time that the sanctioning organizations get over this and let the cycles compete with everyone else. I see only pluses if this would happen.

Don, I agree with what you said, and here is what I noticed last night:

- A good mini sprint can beat a very good midget, especially on a smaller track. I was up from 11th to 4th, racing with Jacob when I got caught up in the early red.

- I'm not so sure mixing mini-sprints and midgets is a great idea though. I felt as the mess I was caught up in was a driver in a midget running over top of a mini sprint, with me having no where to go. Whether this would be a case that would happen often, I'm not sure.

- The racing was very good last night either way. People were complaining about the track, I felt like it was very racy. I was able to go up top on the cushion or hang on the bottom and make alot of passes during the feature. The holes were kind of annoying but it was still raceable.

Either way, good job Jacob on the win.

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I liked the track. 1 and 2 just needed a little work. 3 and 4 were awesome. Otherwise, a great track for midgets.

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Originally Posted by GoenRacing:
They did at Twin Cities its 3/8 mile.

have to see it to believe it.. Comparison being : Upright 1200 minimum weight of 725 lbs.. at max 250 Hp.. to a full midget Minimum weight 900 lbs.. and pushing middle 350 plus horse power..

Now with that, the "cycle" motor, cant even compare on torque that a full midget motor puts out. I dont even think it could have with a midget if it had a wing strapped to it.. Bout the only way i see it happening would be on a dry slick track.. letting them run together would for sure get someone killed..

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The mini's were very competitive at Twin Cities.

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Originally Posted by DonMoore10:
The mini's were very competitive at Twin Cities.

dont get me wrong, im not trying to start a fight.. Just dont see how.. severe power difference..

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If you saw the races at Twin Cities AND at 24 Speedway you'd be convinced that there's no reason why these cars can't run together. I dare anyone in the stands who is a casual midget fan to pick out which cars are mini's and which ones are conventional midgets. I have been around midgets almost my entire life and even I can't tell the difference unless you walk up to the cars and look at the left motor side.

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anyone have photos or where to find them from saturday?

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I thought it was a good race. The uprights were fast enough to run with midgets. The only problem I had with them was that they were too slow under caution. This caused me to eat my brakes up and load up on fuel, which made the restarts difficult.

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Originally Posted by DonMoore10:
If you saw the races at Twin Cities AND at 24 Speedway you'd be convinced that there's no reason why these cars can't run together. I dare anyone in the stands who is a casual midget fan to pick out which cars are mini's and which ones are conventional midgets. I have been around midgets almost my entire life and even I can't tell the difference unless you walk up to the cars and look at the left motor side.

I can tell you right now, they could tell the difference when the car is started.. to quote a buddy that ran this show, "Chainsaw compared to godzilla" lol..

Now, as far as us24 and "cycle" motors keeping up? yes, because its super small bull ring.. and here is a complaint from that again.. Midget drivers having trouble keeping the car from chugging under caution because uprights can roll at a slow speed.. with a clutch thats possible, while a midget how do you do that? I cant seem to find any videos or results from the cycles and midgets running together at twin cities.. Id be curious to see the lap times.

If thats the case, the cost of an upright mini is way less than a "full blown" and especially in the motor department, then why do you not own 1200s rather than midgets Don? Look at Kenyon midgets vs full size midgets.. on small size tracks (indoor) yea they can hold there own.. take it to say Anderson speedway, you have an ice cubes chance in hell..

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Originally Posted by 9racing:
I can tell you right now, they could tell the difference when the car is started.. to quote a buddy that ran this show, "Chainsaw compared to godzilla" lol..

Now, as far as us24 and "cycle" motors keeping up? yes, because its super small bull ring.. and here is a complaint from that again.. Midget drivers having trouble keeping the car from chugging under caution because uprights can roll at a slow speed.. with a clutch thats possible, while a midget how do you do that? I cant seem to find any videos or results from the cycles and midgets running together at twin cities.. Id be curious to see the lap times.

If thats the case, the cost of an upright mini is way less than a "full blown" and especially in the motor department, then why do you not own 1200s rather than midgets Don? Look at Kenyon midgets vs full size midgets.. on small size tracks (indoor) yea they can hold there own.. take it to say Anderson speedway, you have an ice cubes chance in hell..

Its not how much power you have, its how much you get to the ground. If a mini sprint is getting 180 to the ground and a midget is only able to put 250ish down, and also factoring in the 250Lb weight difference, its not that far fetched. Besides It's not like there were any 360-400 HP USAC level midgets there.

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For those that doubt that a mini can be competitive with a full midget, go back into IOW thread for the Twin Cities race which was held last Spring. You will find plenty of comments about the competitiveness at that race on a 3/8 mile track. FYI, you won't find anybody who thought they weren't, but go back and read anyway for the info.

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At Montplier the mini's were compedative as well don't you think Don. Any time there is race such as this or any other just gives everyone a chance to run another night.

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Originally Posted by Colin25:
At Montplier the mini's were compedative as well don't you think Don. Any time there is race such as this or any other just gives everyone a chance to run another night.

Yep, agreed!!

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Originally Posted by slide22:
Its not how much power you have, its how much you get to the ground. If a mini sprint is getting 180 to the ground and a midget is only able to put 250ish down, and also factoring in the 250Lb weight difference, its not that far fetched. Besides It's not like there were any 360-400 HP USAC level midgets there.

yes but you cant promote a race to assume 0 "usac" midgets will not show up.. if you promote this then it needs to be assumed that they will, because anythings possible.. And as for putting the power to the ground, if your midget is pulling the front wheels off the ground you are putting the power to it.. if its not and the track is dusty, a mini sprint is NOT putting all the power to it either.. and its not a 250 lb difference i believe minis are 725 or 750 and midgets are 900.. Another part, a cycle motor has on board clutch and atleast 2 gears if not 3.. 1 in a midget.. and you still have not answered the question Don, if they are that competitive why do you not own them.. You are if not number 1 very close to it in the "complaints of costs in midget racing" category..

Now, the weight difference from a midget to sprint car.. 275 lbs.. with a midget having 350 plus hp.. and a sprint from 7 to 850 hp.. which your not getting to the ground you gonna combine classes on that?? seriously..


Must be a reason they are not willing to combine these cars.. Call Usac and ask them, or Power I and ask them why they wont allow it.. see what they say?

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Originally Posted by 9racing:
and you still have not answered the question Don, if they are that competitive why do you not own them.. You are if not number 1 very close to it in the "complaints of costs in midget racing" category..

Your question is a bit over the top, but here goes: Your question reminds of dozens of fans on here that think race teams can show up all over the country and promoters can just promote races at the snap of a finger amongs other fantasies. It doesn't work that way. I already have a garage full of race cars. I don't need a mini sprint to add to the collection. Thanks! If it's your all time wish for me to own more race cars, you can get ur wallet out and cough up some sponsorship or buy me out. I hope you have a lot of cash. Regarding your complaints about costs: Thanks for putting me number one on the list. I'm not the only one. You may want to check out the wholesale midget operations for sale in Wisconsin to find out who agrees with me or for that matter, ask a few owners that have pavement midgets for sale how sales are coming along.........

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I was one of the mini sprints that was there racing at us 24 speedway in the green and white 15M. I won the third heat and beat out two true midgets by over half a track. This is not our first outing in running with the midgets we run alot of shows down in Missouri with the Ozark Mountain Midgets and our mini sprints do very well running against the midgets. We have run with the midgets on 1/4 mile and small 3/8 mile tracks and have always stayed right with the midgets and made it very good race to watch. I do think there should be more of this type of shows.

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Originally Posted by DonMoore10:
Your question is a bit over the top, but here goes: Your question reminds of dozens of fans on here that think race teams can show up all over the country and promoters can just promote races at the snap of a finger amongs other fantasies. It doesn't work that way. I already have a garage full of race cars. I don't need a mini sprint to add to the collection. Thanks! If it's your all time wish for me to own more race cars, you can get ur wallet out and cough up some sponsorship or buy me out. I hope you have a lot of cash. Regarding your complaints about costs: Thanks for putting me number one on the list. I'm not the only one. You may want to check out the wholesale midget operations for sale in Wisconsin to find out who agrees with me or for that matter, ask a few owners that have pavement midgets for sale how sales are coming along.........

1st. Im not a fan first, I myself race.. and have ran an upright a time or 10.. Never dabbled in midgets because I figured if I was gonna spend that kind of money, it would be on a sprint car.. 2nd. Nope, personally I dont care if you add to your "collection" or not.. I just find it a little funny you complain so much about the cost yet break out a midget that is capable of winning usac shows for a 700 to win gig, then want to some how justify getting the car counts higher by adding cars to the line up that have NO business being there.. Yes for the 10 millionth time on a small track yea, its possible.. it is what it is.. we can argue it all day long. Has to be a reason they DONT do this often at all..

and to the other guy who posted how he thumped them in his heat.. if you read previous posts on it, we agreed on small tracks, its the 1/4 and above that im talking about.. Show me a 1/4 mile or larger that a minisprint beat a full blown midget.. and not because of part failure.. I mean plain out run one.. again, call usac or power I.. ask them..

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Why don't you give a rest 9racing, if you don't want to take your mini and run with the midgets then stay home. I race at US24 all of the time and unfortunately didn't get to see the race, but I heard the whole night was pretty exciting. Congrat's to all of the winners that night. Actually what were the times of the 600 Non-wing compared to the midgets?

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Originally Posted by wright59:
Why don't you give a rest 9racing, if you don't want to take your mini and run with the midgets then stay home.

I'm not quite getting it with 9racing. He wasn't at any of the shows, he thinks teams like mine can go out and buy cars at the drop of a dime and those that have seen the competition of a mix of various midgets overwelmingly endorse this type of racing.... and why don't you tell us who you are? If you're hiding behind one of your expensive $40,000 midgets engines that are being out motored by a cheap cycle engine, i can understand your frustration. If you read a previous post about the racing at US24, there was an expensive state of the art Esslinger that couldn't catch the cheap cycle engine. How 'bout that!!! With midget racing in general on the ropes, we need fresh ideas to pump some life back into the sport. Here is a format that is working and could be part of the saviour of midget racing. Let's keep an open mind. Yes.... It's hard to let go of what we know as tradition, but time moves forward and we need to look at new ways to get midget racing back on track. Is it that the establishment feels threatened by the success of these races?

The races Saturday night were run with NO TIRE RULE, REASONABLE PIT PASS FEE, NO ENTRY FEE AND THERE WAS A RECORD CROWD TO SEE THE COMPETITION... and there were 21 midgets there and that's more than the USAC show at Columbus, OH drew on the same evening.

Sounds like a winning formula that needs to be explored and nurtured.

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Quite possibly the future of midget racing is mini sprints. I raced at 24 saturday as well. We had a great night and enjoyed the big crowd and tight competition. Last saturday night was the third time this summer we raced with the midgets, at no point did we see a midget that couldnt be beat.

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I think there is a place for a run what you brung type of deal. I don't believe it has any place in USAC or Powri, but there isn't any thing wrong with it.

I watched the Mini's take it to the Midgets at an All Star show in the early 90's, but as they say:That was then and this is now. The Mini's haven't really changed much since then and the Midgets are at least twice as good today as they were then.

Like anything else; perception is what it is. If you percieve the Minis are as good as the standard midget, then that is your reality.

My personal belief is that if you ran a series combining both in a run whatcha brung style, the midgets will assert themselves fairly early and it will be hard for a Mini to win more than 10 percent of the shows.

In todays world of car counts over quality mentality and the state of Indiana being as Sprint car heavy as it is, then if you want to have a Mini/Midget combo group; I say go for it.

My question is: How many races will it take if one type of car is dominant over another style before those with the style of car that is being beaten starts to complain that it isn't fair and they go off and start running somewhere else because they can't take it.

At this point it is starting to appear that Don is the Steve Lewis of this type of racing. C'mon Don; stop bringing you're superior cars over and picking on these low buck guys who just want to have fun. You have a whole stable of cars verses these guys who just have what they brought to the track. (Amazing how quickly the tables are reversed)

I don't know who had the Esslinger there, so I may be wrong; but without seeing the full results it appears that the team with the best funding won the race and runs upfront at every show such as this. Seems to be a common story in racing.

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Kinda like the old adage, money talks, and BS walks? Bob

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hahahahaha On the Steve Lewis mentality. We have run three of these combo shows so far this season and everyone who has seen or participated in these events has given it a thumbs up. After the first event at Twin Cities there was a thread on IOW with a lot of participation from race fans who were in the stands watching that event. All of them gave the racing a thumbs up.

The only nay sayers that have come on IOW doubting the validity of these race meets are the ones who haven't seen the racing in person. I have not heard, read or talked to one person that was in attendance at one of the three races that didn't endorse the racing that took place.

Scott, contrary to what you think and you weren't at any of these events, these are not slam dunk events for conventional midgets. We ran used tires (a RR that had several races on it, paid a very low pit pass fee and no entry fee). I am not going to give a blow by blow account of what took place at these events, but I will tell you that these races have not been about who spends the most money. In fact overall I spent the least amount of money for the US 24 race than just about any race I've ever entered. The US 24 race was not about money, superior conventional midgets or the Steve Lewis mentality. It was about driver and car setup. In fact I thought going into the feature that we had about a 5% chance of winning based on what I had seen so far for the evening. The competition was tough to say the least. Shane Cottle was just in front of us and there was a major battle for position for seven laps in the feature. Neither Shane or Jacob Wilson could shake out the minis in front of us. But after the tangle, Wilson seemed to rise to the occasion and did a superior job of reeling in the mini. They battled for several laps and finally he got the lead for good. The fact is that Jacob's driving, his bro Clint turning the wrenches and advice from Mike Cray via cell phone on setup.. the three of them combined got the job done and we won. It was not a walk in the park. Furthermore, Cottle, who was involved in the wreck, went to the tail and there were 13 laps left of racing. If it was a walk in the park, Cottle would have driven past everyone and won the race. That didn't happen.

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Is this even serious? Don is happy because he's found races he can win, and the guys he's racing against are happy because they are just micro guys who want to have fun, and shoot, they're not supposed to beat the full midget anyway. BTW, 13 laps to come from the back on a track like Logansport is not very much time. The place is tiny. And why was this big super-team with the Esslinger not named? Come on, Don - with the right driver in the car, the best car can always be beaten by an inferior unit.

I think it actually hurts the grand scheme of things when full midgets will go and race for such miniscule purses after begging for larger payouts.

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Originally Posted by quicktime3:
Is this even serious? Don is happy because he's found races he can win, and the guys he's racing against are happy because they are just micro guys who want to have fun, and shoot, they're not supposed to beat the full midget anyway. BTW, 13 laps to come from the back on a track like Logansport is not very much time. The place is tiny. And why was this big super-team with the Esslinger not named? Come on, Don - with the right driver in the car, the best car can always be beaten by an inferior unit.

I think it actually hurts the grand scheme of things when full midgets will go and race for such miniscule purses after begging for larger payouts.

Uh... Were you there? Apparently not. That makes three nay sayers on this thread who weren't there drawing negative conclusions about what took place. Mind telling us who you are? I don't know anybody by the name of Quiktime3.

Just for your information only, we won as much cash as the THIRD PLACE FEATURE CAR at the USAC National event at Columbus, Ohio held the same night. and if I'm not mistaken, we won MORE money than the THIRD PLACE FEATURE CAR at a POWRi event and I didn't have to travel 500+ miles each way to participate.

---------- Post added at 03:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:26 PM ----------

Originally Posted by quicktime3:
BTW, 13 laps to come from the back on a track like Logansport is not very much time.

Jerry Coons Jr. drove one of my cars at an ARDC race at Grandview Speedway, started 18th, and was in the lead by the tenth lap AGAINST ALL CONVENTIONAL MIDGETS. Have anything else you'd like to put a spin on?

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What did 3rd pay? Was it as much as the USAC and POWRI show?
What did it pay to start.

A Devils advocate argument could be made that this is no different than a Lewis or TSR deal. A $23,000(When it was new) high upkeep motor used to win $700. Against a bunch of smaller teams that don't have that kind of budget.

Actually, the motors' cost used was probably still more than some of the others whole operation. Then on top of that, a top USAC shoe and crew chief was brought in to do the driving and spin the wrenches. I don't know Don; sounds pretty much the same to me.(This generations Lewis/East/Stewart if you ask me) It's all a matter of situation and perception.

Like I said, If promotors go for it....why not.