New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

At a time when organizations need to work together for the betterment of the sport, it appears that open wheel fans are going to be penalized unfairly do to a new rule by the organization headquartered in Indianapolis. I wish I knew more particulars about the rule but I can't find anything in that org's rule book that addresses this unfriendly fan rule. Maybe somebody can help out with this.

Here is what I know: From SPRINT CAR AND MIDGET MAG, April 2010, page 16: According to a member driver of the org interviewed in the article, a member driver of this org cannot participate (race) with another organization ( BOO!) within 48 hours or 200 miles for an event to count towards the national title.

What this means: Real simple, fans. You won't be seeing some of the great and famous drivers that you've enjoyed at many of the tracks you frequent, plain and simple!!!!!!! Are you happy about that, fans?

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Why USAC Why :21: :21: :21: :15: not only is the rule unfriendly it totally sucks for drivers who race for a living or just love to race

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Originally Posted by DonMoore10:
At a time when organizations need to work together for the betterment of the sport, it appears that open wheel fans are going to be penalized unfairly do to a new rule by the organization headquartered in Indianapolis. I wish I knew more particulars about the rule but I can't find anything in that org's rule book that addresses this unfriendly fan rule. Maybe somebody can help out with this.

Here is what I know: From SPRINT CAR AND MIDGET MAG, April 2010, page 16: According to a member driver of the org interviewed in the article, a member driver of this org cannot participate (race) with another organization ( BOO!) within 48 hours or 200 miles for an event to count towards the national title.

What this means: Real simple, fans. You won't be seeing some of the great and famous drivers that you've enjoyed at many of the tracks you frequent, plain and simple!!!!!!! Are you happy about that, fans?

You left out a very important part of that, Don. The letter that Keith posted earlier specifically said that this doesn't apply if the other track that said driver wants to run at, is host to at least 1 USAC event, that year. In this part of the country, that means most tracks.

Jerry

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

HUH??? Interesting....Very interesting..:34::33:

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Doesn't matter!!!!!!!!

1. First of all, I can cite a long list of tracks that DON'T run a USAC race that will be affected. So if you step out of the box, you must serve a detention.

2. There is more to this rule than what you are reading at first glance.

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Originally Posted by DonMoore10:
Doesn't matter!!!!!!!!

1. First of all, I can cite a long list of tracks that DON'T run a USAC race that will be affected. So if you step out of the box, you must serve a detention.

2. There is more to this rule than what you are reading at first glance.

Is this a last ditch effort to hold on to what they have left? How do you think this will effect their car counts in regards to points?

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Well... Let's take the state of Illinois for example. I can only think of one track that is hooked to the big org. That means if you attend races in that state, don't look for any of the top 20 big org stars to show. That's just one example.

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Originally Posted by DonMoore10:
Doesn't matter!!!!!!!!

1. First of all, I can cite a long list of tracks that DON'T run a USAC race that will be affected. So if you step out of the box, you must serve a detention.

2. There is more to this rule than what you are reading at first glance.

1 The only tracks around here it would affect that run non-wing open wheel regularly is Waynesfield Paragon Twin Cities and the Poweri shows in Illinois.
2 Would you like to expand on that last statement. Tell us what more there is to the rule.

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Originally Posted by Jerry Shaw:
You left out a very important part of that, Don. The letter that Keith posted earlier specifically said that this doesn't apply if the other track that said driver wants to run at, is host to at least 1 USAC event, that year. In this part of the country, that means most tracks.

Jerry

A little concerned are they??? Control issues maybe??? They caused this problem from years of not listening to the competitors. Now it's all about damage control. Now they have taken away the temp liscense and still have the most ignorant rule I have ever heard of in the modern era. The 32 car inversion. They still have IMO way to low of purses for the cost that it take to compete on that level. The racing is awsome it's just a shame.This is John the fan not the promoter.

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

when we raced with usac back in the 70's didn't they have a rule pretty similar to this one?

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

The reality of it is that USAC is trying to strong arm their drivers and car owners into not running anywhere else but USAC. Sound like a mafia type move. Not only do you pay a large membership fee but now they are going to tell you were you can race WOW.

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Originally Posted by hairracer44:
The reality of it is that USAC is trying to strong arm their drivers and car owners into not running anywhere else but USAC. Sound like a mafia type move. Not only do you pay a large membership fee but now they are going to tell you were you can race WOW.

OH Brother, if you only new just how right you are!!! If you only new!!!

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Originally Posted by hairracer44:
The reality of it is that USAC is trying to strong arm their drivers and car owners into not running anywhere else but USAC. Sound like a mafia type move. Not only do you pay a large membership fee but now they are going to tell you were you can race WOW.

And the fans are the losers.

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Originally Posted by smith19:
when we raced with usac back in the 70's didn't they have a rule pretty similar to this one?

Depends what rule your talking about but You probably ran for more money to.

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Originally Posted by john3g:
Depends what rule your talking about but You probably ran for more money to.

the rule about running within 200 miles of one of their races or 24-48 hrs. the races paid $2500 to win in the late 70's. can't remeber what the payback was...

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Its USAC, and just like ALOT of decisions they make, it kinda dumb, and it doesnt really benefit anyone... It is only trying to keep guys from running a series that USAC feels a little heat from. More people are passing on USAC events, and going to run with other clubs, Powri, ASCS, MSCS, KISS, heck even local shows. Its a pretty safe bet North Vernon will have more cars then Eldora, just like last year when USAC was at Brownstown, there were more cars running at North Vernon some 30 miles away for half the money. Why?? Just my opinion, but I think USAC would be better off listening to its members, having votes on important issues, and trying to do what they can to make competitors WANT to be at their events... Now that Im sure this post will be followed by some glares at the next USAC event, I will shhhhh..

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

If they are going to have this rule they should schedule a lot more races. I believe this rule is aimed at the guys like Coons, Darland, and Clausen that run all three divisions. Maybe, I don't know. There's always a big deal about the WoO and their similar rule but they have 80+ races that pay 10,000 and up.

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Originally Posted by cshuman:
Its USAC, and just like ALOT of decisions they make, it kinda dumb, and it doesnt really benefit anyone... It is only trying to keep guys from running a series that USAC feels a little heat from. More people are passing on USAC events, and going to run with other clubs, Powri, ASCS, MSCS, KISS, heck even local shows. Its a pretty safe bet North Vernon will have more cars then Eldora, just like last year when USAC was at Brownstown, there were more cars running at North Vernon some 30 miles away for half the money. Why?? Just my opinion, but I think USAC would be better off listening to its members, having votes on important issues, and trying to do what they can to make competitors WANT to be at their events... Now that Im sure this post will be followed by some glares at the next USAC event, I will shhhhh..

You must have learned from your dad your sounding like him... I liked the way he ran things as I told you this weekend. Novel thought listening to your members...:15: congrats again to you and Don on your win!!!!

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Originally Posted by DonMoore10:
And the fans are the losers.

No they're not, Don. With the two major exceptions in this rule, it'll be a non-issue as far as the quality of he shows we get to see are concerned. Won't make it any better, won't make it any worse. The local track schedules are strong. MSCS and POWRI have just enough big shows to fill in the open spaces. USAC is hitting the Midwest hard this year and life in this part of the country will be great as usual. IMO, anybody that feels unlucky in this part of the country just doesn't get out to enough races. Or they just hate USAC so bad that they can't let that go for long enough to appreciate what happens when those events come to town.

Jerry

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Doesn't The WoO have a rule like this also?

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Originally Posted by Dyno Don:
Doesn't The WoO have a rule like this also?

And they've had it for years...and the world has NOT come to an end!

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Is this rule meant to be midget or sprint specific? By that I mean can a USAC National Sprint Car driver race at a track that does not host a USAC National Sprint Car race but does host a USAC National Midget Race and vice versa.

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Originally Posted by DIRT-TRACK-JUNKIE:
Why USAC Why :21: :21: :21: :15: not only is the rule unfriendly it totally sucks for drivers who race for a living or just love to race

most guy's who race for a living are not point racer's,they race for the $$$$ but if the point thing happen's that's o.k to.

good example > hockett

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Well, the way I see it is - Don Moore is just being Don Moore. His life seemingly revolves around whining, crying and stirring the pot. Just another reason for Don and his cronies to beat up on USAC. It's getting pretty old.

And it's obvious John3G thinks he can build his own organization up by tearing down the other guy with disparaging remarks. Not workin' for me.

What's kind of funny is that there are monetary rewards for drivers that will do this, and IIRC, these two did not even mention that.:10:

As a fan, this doesn't bother me at all. I am a USAC fan first and foremost. I don't really see how this rule will hurt that many drivers showing up at that many events, providing you fully read and fully understand the rule as posted on another thread here.

And as for the drivers, nobody is holding a gun to their head to do this.

You guys remind me of the political campaigns from a couple years ago - you're telling me what is wrong with the other guy rather than selling your own good points. That :21: ain't gettin' my vote. If you really think this is a legitimate gripe, why air it on a public forum? Will that help? Likely not. Call 317-247-5151 and ask for Kevin or Jason or Jason is my suggestion. I think one of these guys will probably talk to you about it.

Just relax and enjoy. This will work itself out. Trust me.:6:

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Originally Posted by Seadog:
Well, the way I see it is - Don Moore is just being Don Moore. His life seemingly revolves around whining, crying and stirring the pot. Just another reason for Don and his cronies to beat up on USAC. It's getting pretty old.

And it's obvious John3G thinks he can build his own organization up by tearing down the other guy with disparaging remarks. Not workin' for me.

What's kind of funny is that there are monetary rewards for drivers that will do this, and IIRC, these two did not even mention that.:10:

As a fan, this doesn't bother me at all. I am a USAC fan first and foremost. I don't really see how this rule will hurt that many drivers showing up at that many events, providing you fully read and fully understand the rule as posted on another thread here.

And as for the drivers, nobody is holding a gun to their head to do this.

You guys remind me of the political campaigns from a couple years ago - you're telling me what is wrong with the other guy rather than selling your own good points. That :21: ain't gettin' my vote. If you really think this is a legitimate gripe, why air it on a public forum? Will that help? Likely not. Call 317-247-5151 and ask for Kevin or Jason or Jason is my suggestion. I think one of these guys will probably talk to you about it.

Just relax and enjoy. This will work itself out. Trust me.:6:

First off John3g didn't post anything that wasn't fact. Second of all I don't need to tear down any other series. This is a bad rule. Period. USAC does not run enough races for this kind of rule. I have always been against the inversion and always will. Third of all I know first hand of what is going on in this state when it comes to sprint and midget racing behind the scenes. Just ask POWRI they also know and I don't believe you sir (and most fans)have any clue of what is happening and I do believe that you as a fan wouldn't care about this rule or any other rule. You need to come out of the stands and head to the pits and find out what is really happening behind the scenes. You might be suprised at what you learn. John Gurley

Oh if I was going to tear down a series I would be chopp'n on the MSCS group or POWRI. They would be the most logical choices not USAC. But I think the MSCS guys have done an awsome job filling a void between USAC and the less funded teams and POWRI is an equally great series. POWRI puts on one hell of a show!!

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

I also see no problem with this rule as apparently the majority here also do not. Just a grumpy, well to do ,old jealous car owner and persons searching for a piece of the big pie. Best of luck to you guys.

Once again John gurley/john3g is on a message board showing his lack of professionalism. What's new??? U don't see Kevin miller on here bashing his series, but then again that's probably why Kevin is the pres. Of the United States Auto Club and gurley's the pres of a series that has not even held a race yet. Hmmmmmmmm
Posted via Mobile Device

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Originally Posted by jjones776:
Once again John gurley/john3g is on a message board showing his lack of professionalism. What's new??? U don't see Kevin miller on here bashing his series, but then again that's probably why Kevin is the pres. Of the United States Auto Club and gurley's the pres of a series that has not even held a race yet. Hmmmmmmmm
Posted via Mobile Device

Professionalism?? For giving my opinion on a rule? Read the whole posting. You need to read the entire thread. You act as if this is a personell attack on you.Why is that?? Has our series done anything to warrant this kind of statement? HaveI done something to you personnally to warrant your statement? Disaggree with me I have no problem with that. Debate is good but my questioning this or any other rule is not a direct attack on anyone.

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

John you obvoiusly dont get it. Putting yourself in the position you have put yourself in(with a new series) changes the rules for public discourse. I wouldnt be picking a fight with USAC if I were you, they can make you life miserable(ask Joe Mershon...if you can find him). If I were in your place I would worry about my own series and stay out of stupid petty whinefests like this one.

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Originally Posted by sprinter25:
And they've had it for years...and the world has NOT come to an end!

I can remember late 80s, early 90s Steve running some non WoO stuff. CRA Eldora, Four Crown. Burg All Star race, Sammy did the same and Wolfgang one year raced anywhere and everywhere with Danny Peace

So it's not always been in effect.

I see a lot of Luke Warmwaters coming out of the woodwork

---------- Post added at 08:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:36 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Seadog:
Well, the way I see it is - Don Moore is just being Don Moore. His life seemingly revolves around whining, crying and stirring the pot. Just another reason for Don and his cronies to beat up on USAC. It's getting pretty old.

And it's obvious John3G thinks he can build his own organization up by tearing down the other guy with disparaging remarks. Not workin' for me.

What's kind of funny is that there are monetary rewards for drivers that will do this, and IIRC, these two did not even mention that.:10:

As a fan, this doesn't bother me at all. I am a USAC fan first and foremost. I don't really see how this rule will hurt that many drivers showing up at that many events, providing you fully read and fully understand the rule as posted on another thread here.

And as for the drivers, nobody is holding a gun to their head to do this.

You guys remind me of the political campaigns from a couple years ago - you're telling me what is wrong with the other guy rather than selling your own good points. That :21: ain't gettin' my vote. If you really think this is a legitimate gripe, why air it on a public forum? Will that help? Likely not. Call 317-247-5151 and ask for Kevin or Jason or Jason is my suggestion. I think one of these guys will probably talk to you about it.

Just relax and enjoy. This will work itself out. Trust me.:6:

While I agree with many points,
How is John tearing another organization here and trying to build his own out of it? Name me the regular USAC team running steel blocks?????????????????????????

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Originally Posted by racefan20:
John you obvoiusly dont get it. Putting yourself in the position you have put yourself in(with a new series) changes the rules for public discourse. I wouldnt be picking a fight with USAC if I were you, they can make you life miserable(ask Joe Mershon...if you can find him). If I were in your place I would worry about my own series and stay out of stupid petty whinefests like this one.

I'll take Shumans lead and just SHHHHhhhh before the pitch forks and torches come out.

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

I'm amazed at what I am reading on here. You "race fans" thinking that this rule is just fine ought to sit down and read between the lines of what is going on. As another post eluded to, there are some things going on behind the scenes that you people have NO IDEA About. If you were smart enough to connect the dots you'd understand. For a free sample, you need to sit down and wonder why there have been so few non USAC sanctioned races in Indiana and why midget racing has declined to the point where it is on life support. THERE IS A REASON. IF YOU THINK THAT THE BIG BOX ORG IS THE ONLY AND ULTIMATE EXPERIENCE ON THIS PLANET, THEN I CAN SEE YOUR POINT OF VIEW. I think you are quite naive if that is the case. ARE YOU HAPPY WITH YOUR MIDGET RACING EXPERIENCE FOR A FEW RACES IN ONE WEEK IN THE STATE OF INDIANA???????? THERE'S A REASON WHY THAT IS THE CASE.

Many years ago when I had a party band, we were hired to play a gig at the Hollanden Hotel in downtown Cleveland, OH. The party hiring my services was the local baker's union. When I showed up I was met at the door by the guy who hired us. He said you must vacate the premises because if you play one note, the musician's union will shut down the entire hotel immediately. I went into the party room to get my equipment and another band was already up and playing! Yeah, that fast race fans. And for you race fans that aren't smarter than a fifth grader, the musician's union just decided EXACTLY WHO THE PATRONS WERE GOING TO LISTEN TO THAT EVENING. Yeah.... Is that the way it works in your life? People that you have never met deciding what experiences you'll be consuming??????

Now for all you "race fans" that have your head in the sand, take my example and apply it to what is going on with this rule and the deep, far and wide implications that this will have on who you will see at various tracks around the country.

Here's another example: Let's take driver X, a well known top draw as a racer. There is a race at Speedway B and they are not sanctioning a certain org's races at any time during the race season. The big box org has a race the next day. DRIVER X WILL NOT BE SHOWING UP AT SPEEDWAY B TO ENTERTAIN YOU. PERIOD. HEY... RAce fans... you've just been zoomed by the big box org!!!! And someone you don't even know just decided who you will see entertain you and who you won't see. Is that the way you like your life being dictated?? Congratulations!!!

Now... for all you "race fans" that think this rule is just hunky dory, please come on here and tell us all how this rule is contributing to promoting open wheel racing as a whole. Do you really want somebody in Indianapolis deciding what kind of race experience you will have at your track??

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Case in point. This confirms exactly what I am saying about DM.

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Originally Posted by smith19:
when we raced with usac back in the 70's didn't they have a rule pretty similar to this one?

Yes, but it was aimed more at the car owner. They would issue a TP for the local drivers to come in and run with us. From a car owner point of view, if you ran a non USAC show, you had to have the front axel, and all the related steering parts re-magnafluxed before you could run USAC again. That made running non USAC shows way to expensive.

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

I haven't read most of the posts on the second page of this thread because they are mostly people bickering back and forth because they don't like someone else's positions. I don't have time for that.

BUT, USAC drivers competing for the national title will be able to compete in only one of the "Illinois Sprint Week" races, that being is schedule in June. Only one of those tracks --Granite City -- have a USAC-sanctioned event.

Maybe Don used the wrong phrase. Maybe he should have said it is not "driver" friendly since it restricts their ability to work on nights that USAC is not racing.

And, yes, this is exactly like the USAC, and AAA before it, from the golden era which prevented its drivers from competing in non-sanctioned events, or "outlawed," if a driver expected to continue racing with USAC and ultimately make it to the Indianapolis 500. Many people don't remember that Steve Kinser was given a three-race suspension from USAC in late summer of 1977 for running a non-USAC race. About the same time, Dick Gaines was hurt and Karl Kinser needed a driver. The rest, as they say, is history.

USAC in that era was highly successful and retained its top drivers. The only way to see Pancho Carter, Gary Bettenhausen, or A.J. Foyt race was to attend a USAC event. You wouldn't see them racing at Gas City on Friday night, nor Bloomington, nor Haubstadt.

Maybe we should go back to that system, if the law allowed it.

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Originally Posted by smith19:
when we raced with usac back in the 70's didn't they have a rule pretty similar to this one?

It was back in the 60's when USAC had that rule. I can remember when Lawrenceburg regulars that ran USAC would run under alias names when they ran the "Burg.

REH

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Ugh... I told myself I would not get into it but damnit...

Gregg, with all do respect, if it was that easy to just call the USAC office and get things changed there would be zero problems, but it doesnt work that way, and thats where these issues just cant be seen the same way between fans on one side of the fence, and competitors on the other. USAC is very good and passing the blame when a issue is brought up to them, and going to them with a issue is pretty pointless these days, you will get the "yea yea we will look into that, thanks for comin," or, "well that is the promoters decision." Fans dont care what intitials they are going to see, they just want to see the best drivers, and I dont blame you one bit, but there is ALOT of money and in some cases peoples livleyhood involved on the other side of the fence, it is two different worlds and its hard for people to understand that sometimes. The majority of owners and drivers dont agree with alot of things going on with USAC, but they also know that its the only game in town (for now), and trying to change things is just a waste of time, or they just wont speak up. I understand many of you saying this rule isnt a big deal, and it may only be a issue a few times throughout the year, but answer this... Why is it necessary?? The point money is great, but why should it matter if Dave Darland goes to run a Powri, or MSCS show the night before Terre Haute?? That is his livelyhood! And nobody has got into what this does to the tracks and their decision to schedule USAC shows or not, because now if the dont, they run the risk of Darland, Stanbrough, Gardner etc not being able to come race on a OFF night from USAC.. So just explain to me who benefits from this rule?? Why is it necessary?? Im not asking sarcastically either..

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Originally Posted by john3g:
I'll take Shumans lead and just SHHHHhhhh before the pitch forks and torches come out.

Now you are catching on.

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Copied from the other thread.

"Drivers competing in the National Drivers Championship must agree to not compete in a non-USAC, same series event (series meaning Sprint, Midget, etc), on the day of a scheduled USAC series event. Additionally, the Driver agrees not to compete in a non-USAC same series event within twenty four hours prior or after a USAC series event within two hundred miles of the race facility which the USAC sanctioned Series event is scheduled to be held, without prior written consent of the USAC VP of Competition. This new policy is not imposed for competitors who elect to compete at a non-USAC event at a track conducting at least one (1) USAC National Series event within the calendar year. This rule will go into effect April 1, 2010 and only impacts points earned for The National Drivers Championship and does not impact points earned for traditional USAC Silver Crown, Sprint and Midget National Driver and Owner Championships."


Please see the bold statement. The only ones affected from what I can tell are those who are going the the National Drivers Championship, which if I recall correctly is the driver who earns the most combined points in all 3 classes of USAC. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Regardless of who it pertains to I think this rule is stupid and will hurt every one involved.

Re: New Unfriendly Fan Rule
 

Originally Posted by cshuman:
Ugh... I told myself I would not get into it but damnit...

Gregg, with all do respect, if it was that easy to just call the USAC office and get things changed there would be zero problems, but it doesnt work that way, and thats where these issues just cant be seen the same way between fans on one side of the fence, and competitors on the other. USAC is very good and passing the blame when a issue is brought up to them, and going to them with a issue is pretty pointless these days, you will get the "yea yea we will look into that, thanks for comin," or, "well that is the promoters decision." Fans dont care what intitials they are going to see, they just want to see the best drivers, and I dont blame you one bit, but there is ALOT of money and in some cases peoples livleyhood involved on the other side of the fence, it is two different worlds and its hard for people to understand that sometimes. The majority of owners and drivers dont agree with alot of things going on with USAC, but they also know that its the only game in town (for now), and trying to change things is just a waste of time, or they just wont speak up. I understand many of you saying this rule isnt a big deal, and it may only be a issue a few times throughout the year, but answer this... Why is it necessary?? The point money is great, but why should it matter if Dave Darland goes to run a Powri, or MSCS show the night before Terre Haute?? That is his livelyhood! And nobody has got into what this does to the tracks and their decision to schedule USAC shows or not, because now if the dont, they run the risk of Darland, Stanbrough, Gardner etc not being able to come race on a OFF night from USAC.. So just explain to me who benefits from this rule?? Why is it necessary?? Im not asking sarcastically either..

I know you don't like USAC because of that SCRA deal and maybe you are just trying to be a good soldier for your dad. I can't blame you for being true to family. But that's now water under the bridge.

The benefit is $116,000.00 in bonus money. Not chump change.

http://www.usacracing.com/ndc

Guess what? If you don't want to get that USAC license and go for that money, then don't do it. Then you can race where ever you want at any time that you want. Some are doing it and some aren't. It's a personal choice for drivers I guess. As a fan, I'm good with it either way. Simple really.

By the way, I think people have less of a chance of making things happen by posting less than flattering comments on IOW about USAC as opposed to talking directly to USAC in a sensible manner. I have sent e-mails and PM's to USAC and have gotten responses. Try it! What do you have to lose?