INDY CAR...NOW and Then
 

OMG....I tried to watch the IRL race in Brasil....***....What a joke..what a change in its business model...and Disney 96 promoting all short track racers....Michner, Stewart, Gosek, Tyler, Beechler and Hamilton....averaging 35 cars and sending 7 home after Q.

80% road coaures? I am speachless!

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By 2002, the IRL had a great formula that allowed smaller teams such as Kelly, Blair, Foyt, Nunn, Cheever, Dreyer/Reinbold, Treadway etc. to compete on even terms with Penske. GM and Infiniti were the engine manufacturers and teams "bought" the motors from private builders. There was a great mixture of American circle trackers and road racers and it was pretty much an all oval series. Several of the tracks were drawing full houses and the racing was the greatest ever seen on this planet. Enter Honda and Toyota and the $1.7 million leases to the smaller teams while the Rich, Penske-Ganassi-Andretti, got freebies. Enter an ever increasing amount of road courses. Exit American circle trackers to NECKCAR. Welcome, unknown foreign road racers, three teams winning 99% of the races and the disappearance of the photo finishes that happened so regularly pre-2003. Yep, Tony sold out his soul and his principles for Honda and Toyota money (which never did a thing to promote the IRL) and now we have a dead series on VERSUS!!! Oh well.

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Cecil!...Thank you..OMG...I'm glad some othe normal person see's it!....Thank goodness for Sprint cars, midgets and supers.....that can take the place of Indy car.....What a mess....!

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I barely watched, was mainly watching college b-ball but had to laugh at the deal, first off they couldn't time trial due to the fact the frontstretch was a parade route and was painted and was too slick, so they ground the paint off and on the first lap(and many more) the dust was so thick you couldn't see past a couple of rows, had a couple wrecks in the first turn of the first lap, the track was so rough the cars were in the air alot, then it rained and so on and so on, first time I had even bothered to turn on a IRL race in about 4 years and I see I haven't missed much. Won't even bother with Indy yet again this year, they can have it, I'll go to the Little 500. Also love the fact so many new rookies and not a single one was American.....

I didn't watch and don't really ever. Regardless of the racing Will Power is the best name ever. I did watch a little F1, but again it's the same thing people with way more money then a sprint car guy, buying rides, nepotism, new tracks in new countries. It isn't anything close to sprints.
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I quit going to Indy after 2008 when the field was made up of mostly road course specialists, on an oval track. To me that's like the Indianapolis Colts getting rid of most of their players and hiring a bunch of soccer players in their place. And the decline in the product showed. One or two of these guys were running their forst or second oval race at Indy. Thay would have never flew with Fengler. We held our breaths every time Mario Morias came in to pit. Him and Viso were particularly scary.

The IRL needs serious help, if it's not too late already. Lets hope the Bull Rider guy can talk some sense into these people.

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I would have watched but I have Directv and it wasn't on. They need to get that situation settled ASAP.

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I don't have Vs so I couldn't watch. I don't think anyone expected the front straight to be a problem. (It was a street course btw) I was impressed with them getting everything accomplished in one day. The race was a sellout.

All the cars entered were guaranteed 6 figures in pay. Something they all needed. I don't have a problem with road/street courses, they make up half not 80% of Indycar races, look at the schedule. The new car is coming in 2 years and will change things. There's 8-10 new possibilities for cars by the survey I took from an Indycar email. Yes, it's had it's problems but Napcar sucks 10X more and they don't have the Indy 500 which has been a shear joy to watch the last few years.

It takes a driver to drive a road/street course much like a sprint car. The boredom of 500 miles at a Napcar race has lost all interest with me. Eventually Versus channel is suppose to be everywhere like ESPN, that's why there is a 10 year contract. I'll wait patiently for Indycar to come back to the top and it will. Tony George is now gone.

The engine lease for 1 year is less than 1 million per car. That applies to all teams

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3 out of 24 were American. ***! The Indycar series of now isn't even a shell of what it once was. It's a joke.

I 100% agree with cecil98. I am just glad that normal, race appreciating fans see what a travesty that series has become.

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The engine lease for 1 year is less than 1 million per car. That applies to all teams....acaeace

it was $1.7mil per season. If you are correct, then, the price has been reduced in recent years.

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I was unimpressed they would even run a lousy deal like that not to mention the fact you kick off an American based series in brazil. The race was a sell out but almost no one in AMERICA watched and I doubt very many Americans made the trip to watch in person, you know AMERICA where your fan base is supposed to be...... 50% road courses means 50% of the races will feature little or no passing, woo hoo, can't wait... The new car will only make it worse since the plan is a 4 cylinder turbo with a high tech all new design, can you say overpriced? Can you say even less competition? NASCAR may suck but they still out draw the IRL in attendence, fans, ratings, money etc by a VERY large degree. As far as the Indy 500 being a shear joy the last few years, then you must like a bunch of no name, non americans running up front while the people we root for everyday like BC and Dave Steele and so on can't even get a chance, hell, can't even get a pit pass...... You're right tho, it takes a driver to run a road course BUT it takes a RACER to run a sprint car, give me a racer over a driver ANY day of the week. VS will NEVER come close to what ESPN is, sorry but that's a fact and even if it does come close it'll be several years from now, when your main draw is NHL and the IRL you really don't have much hope for growth... And the payday for the IRL is no where near 6 figures for last place except at Indy, and an engine lease is closer to 2 million for this year and Honda has never been fair on who gets a good engine and who gets a bad one, look at Indy where you have several levels of engine lease for just one race... Sorry guy but the fans have spoken, ratings suck, attendence sucks other than the street "events" and we all know those numbers are bogus. The IRL is on life support and it's not long before the plug is pulled........

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I didn't even know they were racing, after I read this I found a highlight video. What was with that cloud on the start? The track was dry and dusty, Then the course looked wet, was that from rain or did they "work" the track after the start. Parecía una gran cantidad de público.

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i thought it was farily entertaining......saw some new faces running up front, and they have dramatically downscaled their all danica all the time broadcast............

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I would have to say for a street race it was pretty good. The competition was closer than usual. There were 3 cars right there at the end going at it for the win. An American driver finished second. Vitor Meira (in A.J. Foyts car) finished third. Even though a Penske car won, it had a different feel than the usual Ganassi/Penske sweep of the podium... The track had many areas to pass and it showed. Cant wait for Indy!

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I thought this argument about "old school" was worn out by now...I guess not.

Did you see the WDW race in '96 and then take a 14 year nap or what? You are just now figuring out that it is different now than from back then?

How many of those guys that you mentioned would have had ANY chance of being in an IndyCar at all had it not been for TG and the IRL?

Sure it's different now. Stuff happens. In a perfect world Darland, Levi, and Hines would be in the 500. But it's a different world now and moaning and groaning about it will not bring back the old days. Accept it and enjoy it for what it is or move on.

I guess I must be only a small percentage of the fans that are able to enjoy USAC midget, sprint and Silver Crown racing AND IndyCar too.

FYI, There are more oval races (8) on the 2010 IndyCar schedule then back in 96 (5?). Those 8 races make up 47% of the schedule, not 20% as you want us to believe.

And I've been around as a fan since 1955, so I've seen a lot of them come and go. I've seen lots of changes. Everything evolves, like it or not. I happen to like the current IndyCar product. So kill me. If you don't like it, then maybe you should move on to something that makes you happier.:31:

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I agree with you, you either accept it for what it is or not. One thing for sure it won't be going back to the "good old days" as much as we wish it would.

REH

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I agree with you also. I happen to like winged and non winged sprints, midgets, IRL and gasp...even a little NASCAR. Must be the 1955 born on date.

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I was actually born in '51, but did not go to my first race untill 1955. But hey, what's three or four years? I guess that great minds think alike.

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Also born in 51. By the late 50s my dad showed me how to listen to the 500 and score it myself from the radio broadcast. My dad and uncle became short track modified owners in the early 60s and I read the NSSN religously for all kinds of racing where ever they raced. My first love is open wheel dirt short track racing, followed closely by short track pavement racing, but I enjoy superspeedway racing both stock cars and Indy cars. I even enjoy road racing, drag racing and tractor pulls.
But by the early 90s, my interest in Indycars was almost gone. For mostly the same reasons others have suggested here and elsewhere. The IRL revitalized my interest in Indycars. And as much as I love the short tracks, some of the IRL races at TMS in the late 90s and early 00s were the BEST races of any kind I had ever seen anywhere. But around 2005 something changed or perhaps changes that were in process early came to be and I quit going to TMS for the IRL and quit watching them on TV. 18-20 cars on a superspeedway was either a joke or an insult. Last year I decided to go back to an IRL race at TMS mostly due to a large number of my internet friends coming in from out of state. I got tickets for me and my brother who is not as rabid a fan, but a lifelong fan just the same. We both agreed afterwards or actually during the race, that we would never attend another IRL race without some drastic changes. As suggested though, I can take it as it is or leave it. My choice is to leave it. I can see more great short track races than my budget allows and I can still take in the trucks, ARCA and Nationwide out at TMS when they don't conflict with a short track race. That's good enough for me, although I miss those great IRL races of a few years back.

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Forget it its over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *** its be over since rear engine cars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:14::15::16

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At least this is a good thing. Can't hurt

http://www.indycar.com/news/show/55-...ck-on-directv/

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I tried to watch it on the internet, but it was virtually unwatchable do to things such as:
1.Poor Director in the booth, many times showed empty track for extended time.
2.Director frequently missed what little action there was during the race.
3.Picture became pixilated when showing race action shots.
4.Sound kept cutting in and out.
5.Timing and scoring suspended after the Red Flag.
Need I say more ? USAC is not so bad after all.

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I actually enjoyed the race. One of the better street designs I have seen along with Cleveland. If you were faster you could pass and not have to force the issue like many of them. I'm not a Danica hater, more of the "more power to her type," but it was nice not to see her covered for 70% of the race. Although I completely understand when they do, because she sells.

I hate it like everyone else that IndyCar does not give opportunities to sprint cars guys anymore. I hate it that IndyCar is not what it once was in the 60s thru 80s. But I get tired of hearing the same old complaints referring to this. I hear stories from my Dad just like many of you have referred to about how great it once was. I hate that I wasnt around to see that but....

Accept it for what it is. It is never going to be what it was. Many will always deem anything the series does a failure no matter what even when there are positive things. The second half of last years oval season was great after they made some changes. Yesterdays race was pretty good in my opinion.

Its like with General Motors, some will never ever say they are a successful organization again because they will never get back to the way they once were, even if if their new business model turns out to work, albeit on a smaller scale. You have to look at GM and the IRL in similar ways.....they have is a new business model and because it has been proven for some reason or another the old way does not work or is not feasible, changes are made.

Saying the IRL is a failure regardless of what happens good or bad just because they dont have 100,000 on pole day or 20 Americans in the lineup I don't think is a 100% valid argument anymore, it can be only part of the argument. Sure we want more Americans.

It just bothers me that many think the IRL is a failure TODAY (I'm noy saying they are a success either) because it is not what it was, and I understand that, but what IndyCar was back in the day is not going to happen anytime soon. One of the coolest memories I have was watching Brian Tyler at Winchester then a few days later, talking with him about that race at Winchester on pit road practicing at Indy, so I do get what it is people miss. Instead of a few "sprint car guys" to see race and chat with, it used to be multiple. Accept it for what it is, like it or not. Thats up to you.

I will always be pissed that there has been so much talent in sprint cars not get an opportunity at Indy.... but, it will not stop me from hoping a form of racing I like is successful in some form or another.

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I miss guys like Kinser, Hewitt, and Tyler in the IRL also. But what the heck, we all know that isn't what the IRL is about any way. If you want to see open wheel guys in the big leagues, that's what NASCRAP is for.

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yeah they needed to fix that pronto!!

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Now they just need to fix 49 years of the after effect one horrible horrible decision has made to open wheel racing in this country.

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If you are happy and enjoy IndyCar by all means continue too do so. For me Tony had a huge opportunity to shape Indy Car racing for the future. Instead, he gave us more of the same only to a lesser degree. I guess I'm still a little put off that I was duped for a short while but as the old rock song states "We won't get fooled again". I feel the best thing for me to do is to not support the product as it is. I spent over $180 to go to Indy every year to watch something that is really not to my likeing anymore. I would enjoy the KISS race at the 'burg the evening before then the next day, outside of the pomp and ceremony, the race becomes an anticlimax. Even the full time Andretti that races today pales in comparison to the Andrettis that raced before him.

Today that same $180 translates to about 10 short track races (USAC and local). The least of these ten races is exciting, I am supporting some very deserving drivers that I actually heard of and leave the track with a smile on my face each and every time. Now that's acceptance.

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Long time lurker, first time poster. I've read this thread a couple of times and finally decided to post on it.

First, let me say that I'm a fan of sprint and midget racing, but I'm also a fan of IRL racing. We can all complain that we want 1996 back, but that isn't going to happen. What many of you fail to realize is that the business model simply wasn't working back then.

Tony G gave it a good try, but then did what he had to do to keep the doors open. If 1996 was so great, why were the stands so empty? Sure, we all supported it, but majority of America sports fans didn't come out and support Boat, Yeley, Stewart, etc. while in the IRL. I would argue that a larger percentage of today's general "motorsports" fans care much more about Tony Kanaan than they do Billy Boat.

What we need is a mix. That's what's made Indy so spectactular for nearly 100 years. Oval trackers vs. international superstars in the same race. Back then it was Foyt vs. Andretti. Today we need Hines vs. Kanaan. It should be about the best in the WORLD. Indianapolis 500 is an international event and should always be an international event. My argument has always been that no one ever had a problem rooting for or against Luyendyk, Mansell, Fittipaldi, etc., but now you suddenly have a problem with today's foreign drivers? What gives?

Just my opinion folks. Keep on racin!

Chasin Cars

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I guess the what gives is the lack of american drivers. There are 4 or 5 this year, if I remember correctly(which I may not). Back before the majority of the field was buy a ride, it was fun to see the foreign born drivers. Indy was the place you got to put faces with the names you saw in print. Hill, Stewart , Rindt, and Brabham to name a few.

Once american drivers were getting pushed out by deep pocketed foriegners, the tide started changing.I don't want to here the story about rear engined experiance either, some guy named Stewart proved the was bull$h#t.

The public wants faces and names they know, like the guys they see running sprint cars and midgets. Remember 20 years ago Nascrap was just a regional thing, I bet only a handful of guys on this website even watched nascrap. Once Stewart , Gordon, Schrader, and the like went there, it got our attention.

The IRL has a great product, but without a grass roots interest, it will become more the International Racing League, and less the Indy Racing League, and the american fanbase will keep withering away.

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Your opinion, like everyone's is valid. However I disagree with your opinion. I too thought that Tony G gave it a good try, but since he has come out since then and admitted that he always wanted a series like CART, that kind of throws that good effort argument out the window.

As far as a majority of America (sic) sports fans not supporting the early IRL, I'll only agree that not enough of them did. But as big as nascar is, a majority of sports fans don't support it either. All racing and all sports are niches, some much bigger than others, but still niches. The big problem comes when a series or a sport tries to be bigger than it's niche will support. Table Tennis at a top level is very difficult, yet that sport has a small following, so you won't find many if any pro table tennis players. I would say that a large percentage of today's motorsports fans don't know who Billy Boat or Tony Kannan are.

No one had a problem with foreign drivers in the past? I don't know about that, but I didn't. However one BIG difference is almost all of those foreign drivers in the past including the ones you mentioned were known quantities. They had records, winning records. Some were world champions when they came to Indycars. Imagine that, F1 a feeder series for Indycars. The problem came when foreign drivers without winning resume's showed up and actually took the place of winning Indycar drivers who were still in or near their prime. So that's what gives.

And like you, that is just my opinion.

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Where or when did he say he wanted a series like CART? Do you have a link to anything (print interview or video press conference, etc.) where he said that? My memory is bad and I don't remember him saying that.

You may watch NASCAR because guys like Stewart, Gordon & Schrader race there but the majority of people know who they are because they race in NASCAR.

Non wing sprint/midget racing is a niche sport. We know who the drivers are because we follow this type of racing. I would think more American racing fans know who Tony Kanaan is than know who Jon Stanbrough is. In fact I would bet that a lot of winged sprint car fans do not know who Jon Stanbrough is.

(Note: I only used Jon Stanbrough as an example because he is one of the top non wing sprint drivers in the midwest.)
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Re: INDY CAR...NOW and Then
 

This is excellent advice. And that is exactly what I did after foolishly griping about the "different world" with posts here on IOW and over at TF for far too long. I moved on.

I attended the Indy 500 from 1961 through 2003. Made the short drive out to IMS for many qualification days and countless practice days. Bought tickets to Milwaukee, Trenton, & Kentucky and that doesn't even count the Champ Dirt races back when they were included on the Championship Trail. Had high hopes for the IRL at it's inception and was getting really pumped again until it became apparent that Mr. George had only used us as well as owners like Hemelgarn, Treadway, Galas, Cahill and others until he could get, by default, Penske, Ganassi, and the big money owners and equipment suppliers to come home. Disapppointed for awhile, but later realized it was his game and he was completely justified in molding it however he saw fit. That said, I felt no obligation to support the new vision.

I find no fault with Seadog and any others who like, support, and follow this now latest vision of Indy Car racing. I sincerely hope it flourishes and finds it's way back onto mainstream TV and with full grandstands.

Meanwhile, I'll run through my entertainment budget attending sprint, midget, and Silver Crown races, with an occasional LM show thrown in. I'll be watching NASCAR on days not in conflict with open wheel events within 200 miles, but on TV, not in the stands. Being an old dude I received a grandfathered exemption to watch and enjoy whatever the hell I want to watch and enjoy without regard to the many critics and clever misspellings of NASCAR that pop up. There are participants there who I've followed for years, rooted for, some I've met, and for whom I care about how they fare with their series of choice.

I guess age has a way of teaching us which battles are worth fighting and which ones are unwinnable. This one has long since concluded. I not only lost, I now realize that I was never really in it. I'm glad I had sense enough to finally "move on". If only I had been that perceptive about 12 years sooner in my first marriage. :15: ;) :22:

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Marv, at my age, the one battle that is worth fighting the most for me is constipation:3:.

This is a well thought out, well written post (except for that part about LM:2::3::5:).

I respect you for what you say every time you post. We may not always agree all the time, but you always make your point with class and style and without name calling.:9:

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Sorry, I haven't been ignoring you. I went last night to find a link and a virus I've been working around took hold and I couldn't do anything. I started trying to clean it out on my own at 5am and at 8am I gave up and downloaded a pay version anti virus. That didn't work either, so I called them and paid for them to clean it out. I thought it was pretty high priced, but by then I was desperate. They finally got it fixed at 10:30pm. All but about 3 hours of that I was on the phone with them. What a mess!

Tomorrow, I've got carpet layers coming and will have to unhook computer, tv and cable and tomorrow night I'm going to the ASCS races at the Devils Bowl. Assuming I can get everything hooked back up on saturday, I'll look for that link again. If I wind up having to get the cable company out to hook things up, who knows.

I am certain that he said this, because for at least two years I watched closely as things started turning around and returning to the old CART ways like engine leases, road courses etc that drove me away from Indycars to start with. But I held on thinking that Tony meant what he said about reconnecting with the short tracks etc. I pretty much took the position that you are now and when this statement finally came out, I was furious. Still am.

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Looked like a freight train to me.

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I enjoyed everyone's point of view. However, the folks at the IRL played ******** with all the USAC people by having them place those stupid decals on their cars saying and I quote "the road to INDY" ya right..the road to the town of Indianapolis maybe....certainly a misleading lie.

Lets just say there was more of a fan following during the ESPN USAC Thunder Series in the early 90's then the INDY CAR......

In closing, IRL is done and over, who wants to watch these idiots when you can watch the real RACE CAR drivers in USAC.

Last but not least....WE ARE TALKING ABOUT INDY CAR NOT NASCAR....!!!!

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Well I'm going to keep watching. I don't understand why you think Power, RHR, Helio, Dixon, TK etc are not real drivers. They seem pretty good to me. :31:

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I thought at one time the last show of Speedweek, the man told us, that the sprint car drivers will be in IRL!

Well, it never happened. That was the night JJ won that speedweek. As a guess 97? I did bail out after nothing happened. Did watch less after the CART split. Just could not get turned on with either.:20:

Joe

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Ok, miracles do happen. I hooked my TV and computer back up this morning and after a couple of false starts, I've got both cable TV and internet access. It's rainy and cold, so I will likely be able to spend some time searching for the link/quote from Tony George.