Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

The time to narrow the sprint car tires seems to have passed by long ago, but right now would be a good time to begin to rectify that situation.

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

its not the tires.... 8 inch or 2ft every one has the same.... modifieds have the same problem..... its usually track conditions that warrent passing or not...

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

It is not the tires or even track conditions. The tires have been 16"-18" wide for years and the track conditions have always been dirt that either dries out or rubbers up. It is all the cockpit adjustable shocks, weight jackers and now "dri-bars".

Back 10-15 years ago it came down to who started with the best set-up and the driver who could carry a car to the end. This created separation and forced guys to search the race track for the best line that worked for their set-up.

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

Originally Posted by :
It is all the cockpit adjustable shocks, weight jackers and now "dri-bars".

I agree, eliminate any cockpit adjustments. Not only would this make the racing better, it would cut costs.

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

This is one area that the winged cars are doing things right-got rid of all cockpit adjuster a couple years ago with the exception of the wing front to back. No driver adjustable springs or shocks, and sway bars have been outlawed since shortly after they appeared on the non-winged cars.

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

In late model racing there are no cockpit adjustments allowed. And guess what, great racing! Just an observation. Also if cockpit adjustments are outlawed it will lower costs. And it will show us all who can really set a car up, not which driver can adjust his car through the race to make it the best. JMO

Bob

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

12" wide wheel on dirt and 14" wide on pavement!:15:

---------- Post added at 03:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:29 PM ----------

Originally Posted by sprintcar64:
it is not the tires or even track conditions. The tires have been 16"-18" wide for years and the track conditions have always been dirt that either dries out or rubbers up. It is all the cockpit adjustable shocks, weight jackers and now "dri-bars".

Back 10-15 years ago it came down to who started with the best set-up and the driver who could carry a car to the end. This created separation and forced guys to search the race track for the best line that worked for their set-up.

go too 12" wide on dirt and dig into the track for traction! Not black slick and wait to take rubber! Thats slick pavement racing!:15::14:

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

I'm afraid that this will be the same for Perris this weekend. It is supposed to rain Fri. therefore the track will be very tacky and fast. Looks like quals. will be good but passing on the track will be minimal as the cushion will be the place to be. As far as Vegas goes they should pray for some rain, maybe there won't be rubber down during hotlaps....LOL

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

Ya know one won from the front row in the 30's,40's,50's,60's,70's,80's,90's or 00's:15::15::15:It just started.Damion probably would have won from the 4th row in Florida.


IT'S 3 RACES NOT 3 YEARS slow your roll.

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

Originally Posted by aero410scja:
ya know one won from the front row in the 30's,40's,50's,60's,70's,80's,90's or 00's:15::15::15:it just started.damion probably would have won from the 4th row in florida.


It's 3 races not 3 years slow your roll.

ok your right! But when is the last time you seen somebody start last at a usac 30 lap sprint car race and win it?:11::16

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

Didn't Jerry Coons Jr. do it last year at Manzanita....:11:

I want to have a couple drinks with ya Duke on one of my trips to Indiana this summer....:32:

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

I'd have to agree with Mr. Short on this. Also I dont believe a team would see any substantial savings from outlawing cockpit adjustments. What savings would one see? 4 shock cables and a weight jacker(i dont even run one). When we are dealing with 15-30 thousand dollar engines and $200 tires, I dont think getting rid of $150 worth of shock cables (which lasted me 2 seasons) is going to change anyones fortunes. I spend far more money on tear-offs than cockpit adjustment devices.

Just my 2 Cents

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

Originally Posted by SUPERDUKE:
ok your right! But when is the last time you seen somebody start last at a usac 30 lap sprint car race and win it?:11::16

Coondog at Manzy, Damion at Lburg started like 14th and won. Theres more

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

Sprint tires are way too big, IMO. Most of the time when I go to a sprint race, I can't even see the track for the dirt and S%^T that they throw as they go by. When you have to wear combat gear to a race track to enjoy the show, there's something wrong.

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

The Tires are not the problem... The lack of passing is a matter of guys not being able to hit the setup. All of the teams as a group are just not familiar with these tracks. Before this year... when was the last time these teams competed in nonwing sprint cars at either East Bay or Tucson? When the teams come back to Indiana, you will see plenty of passing.

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

Originally Posted by SUPERDUKE:
ok your right! But when is the last time you seen somebody start last at a usac 30 lap sprint car race and win it?:11::16

Hunter (100%) @ Kokomo during the summer a couple of years ago.

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

I seen larry dickson and gary bettenhausen both do it in strange cars after theres blew up!:6:

---------- Post added at 07:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:27 AM ----------

Originally Posted by charles nungester:
coondog at manzy, damion at lburg started like 14th and won. Theres more

was that 30 laps?

---------- Post added at 07:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:27 AM ----------

Originally Posted by donmoore10:
sprint tires are way too big, imo. Most of the time when i go to a sprint race, i can't even see the track for the dirt and s%^t that they throw as they go by. When you have to wear combat gear to a race track to enjoy the show, there's something wrong.

most of this kids just don't know! We raced a lot of sun afternoon races and had good tracks cause we was diggin in the track where the new track was!:6:

---------- Post added at 07:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:27 AM ----------

Originally Posted by bill gardner:
the tires are not the problem... The lack of passing is a matter of guys not being able to hit the setup. All of the teams as a group are just not familiar with these tracks. Before this year... When was the last time these teams competed in nonwing sprint cars at either east bay or tucson? When the teams come back to indiana, you will see plenty of passing.

the wide tires are a big problem!:15:

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

Yes, Both Demon's and Coondogs were 30 lappers and If Im not mistaken, Coon's was after he was put to the tail for being late to the lineup chute. Coons also came from 16th to fourth at the Hulman last year.

Personally and its only my view, Is tires are a ton of the reason for both many things good and many things bad. When a tracks tacky and the cushions the only place to be. You got 20 cars running qualifying laps, IMHO this is bad, Might as well throw the checkered after one lap because the lineup after that isn't going to change much. If drivers had to lift it would be more a battle of who's got the biggest pair than HP.

I never remember Gaines/Wilkerson/Millburn/Krebs/ and maybe Super Duke Cook flat footing it around the Burg. Matter of fact, I think the first time I seen it was the late 80s and Hoffmans car, Damn near lapped the field. The next weekend Staab did the same thing and flat footed the whole track the whole race (This was NW)

The Good, Speeds are incredible. We still get great racing a ton of the time.

The Bad, Lower HP teams often suffer especially on tacky tracks, I still see em do very respectable and even win on the slicks but it seriously is affecting how many cars show up at the track. A ton of teams are avoiding the SUPER TACKY TRACKS and attending the slicker and smaller tracks that you have to lift if your over Horsepowered for the track.

Chuck, YMMV

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

narrow em! it would make the field as a whole less wide, more room on the track. 4 to 6 inches would make a big difference in competition in my view.

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

let me see........ you run a 30 lap race and lets take the cars that finish first, second and third, with wide tires,,so you narrow each of the cars tires by 50 percent.. that now makes the third place car faster than the first place car? explain .......all i can see is this slows down the speed of the cars.......now the cockpit adjustments do help the driver that missed the setup or stay with the track conditions as they change.....assuming the driver knows what changes to make....its all homework,setup and track conditions.......just my 2 cents worth ..

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

Invert the fastest 12 cars and give passing bonus money!:6:

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

I have stayed out of this, but I am bored at work so what the hell. I am pretty sure that when USAC/ Hoosier came out with the DT3 it was suppose to be some what like making the tires smaller in the way that it was suppose to make the car harder to get the HP to the ground, last longer, help tracks, etc.... They got harder with a stiffer side wall. What happened? We tightened the cars up somewhere else...like 2-4 pounds of air in the right rear, softer bars than most would ever think of running, stuff like that. So say they do shrink the tires, whats going to happen? We will find another way to tighten the cars up and make them go.

Just my 2 cents.

Todd Kimmel

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

You may not run very many cockpit adjustments but many cars have 4-6 knobs in the cockpit. And this is not about the cost it is about making better racing.


Bob

Originally Posted by torqueball:
I'd have to agree with Mr. Short on this. Also I dont believe a team would see any substantial savings from outlawing cockpit adjustments. What savings would one see? 4 shock cables and a weight jacker(i dont even run one). When we are dealing with 15-30 thousand dollar engines and $200 tires, I dont think getting rid of $150 worth of shock cables (which lasted me 2 seasons) is going to change anyones fortunes. I spend far more money on tear-offs than cockpit adjustment devices.

Just my 2 Cents

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

Eliminating cockpit adjustments is not going to make the races any better. Shock adjusters are not a magic fix all. You cannot just ignore setup and just hook your car up when you get on the track. If your car is not any good you are not going to magically make it fast. Cockpit adjustments are pretty fine adjustments. If anything they will make a race better. A guy in the back has a good car, tunes his shocks and makes it better, finds a line, and charges to the front. Chances are guys that are running up front and are fast are not going to be turning many knobs anyway.

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

Narrowing up tires is not going to help in my opinion. Midgets have very narrow tires and you usually blister them before you wear them out. This also happens alot with SUPER hard DT3 tires, thus causing you to buy more tires. When I run with ASCS or Sprint Bandits we run a tire that is softer, slightly bigger around, and the same width as DT3. I run many more races on one of the ASCS tires than I ever could with a DT3. In 2008 I ran the same right rear 4 nights in a row and won 3 of them and fell out running 2nd in the first race. As for passing I won at 1-80 from 14th in 30 laps. I also agree with getting rid of cockpit adjustments. I usually dont run them anyway. Most bad races are due to bad track conditions, and every race isnt going to be a barn burner. And next time you think a non wing race is boring go watch a winged race.

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester:
Coondog at Manzy, Damion at Lburg started like 14th and won. Theres more

Clayton did it a few of years ago during Sprint Week @ Haubstadt. It was the same race that Levi flipped and wedged it between the wall and the fence.

Jerry

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

Originally Posted by baconracing99:
And next time you think a non wing race is boring go watch a winged race.

Couldn't agree more. ;)

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

My problem with inboard adjustments is it changes the race if there is a caution or red. I've seen many times Joe Local go out and run well and hold their own, Here comes a yellow and then They're lucky if they finish on the same lap.

Yeah, i know, Get with the program, There available to everyone but my idea of dirt sprint car racing isn't a on board pit crew. Your crew could adjust under a red same as a mechanic could change a bar or torsion stop setting.

Certainly I can agree to the adjustable shocks replacing several different ones but, Why do people like Schatz win without them? Because they setup for the middle to end of the race. In the first place.

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

i think Drinan and Newman both did it at winchester in midgets.starting last finishing first

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

Remove all the cockpit adjustments. Make all Red Flags "Closed Reds". Narrow the tires to 14" RR, 10" LR and put lugs on them like a Snow Tire so they can dig for some moisture. LOL

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

I was thinking we where talking about narrow tires and wheels??????????:15::14::18:

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

Originally Posted by Kevracer58:
I agree, eliminate any cockpit adjustments. Not only would this make the racing better, it would cut costs.

I really don't know where you guys get the cost cutting effects of removing adjustable shocks. I will give you one expample: The left rear shock. If it wasn't for my $700 double adjustable shock I would have to have these shocks: 11/2, 11/3, 10/3, 10/4, 9/3, 9/4, 9/5, 8/3, 8/4, 8/5 and 8/6. That is 11 shocks at $250 each. $2750 in shocks. Oh yeah and I cold purchase a back-up double adjustable shock and still be ahead. :18:

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester:
Certainly I can agree to the adjustable shocks replacing several different ones but, Why do people like Schatz win without them? Because they setup for the middle to end of the race. In the first place.

I believe the Outlaws have banned shock adjusters from the cockpit. I do not know for sure, but I really doubt Schatz's Afcos are nonadjustable. The wing slider is a pretty substantial adjustment, however.

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

Damion Gardner started 15 and won on what some have said was not a good race track

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

What about a harder compound would that help? :11:

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

See post by Bacon comma Brady. He hits the nail more squarely on the head than I have ever seen.

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

:11:

Originally Posted by kirk spridgeon:
see post by bacon comma brady. He hits the nail more squarely on the head than i have ever seen.

hell i seen tires run all year on the fronts and buy two sets of rears all year and win races! Ask johnny rutherford! :14::15:

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

Originally Posted by Kevracer58:
I agree, eliminate any cockpit adjustments. Not only would this make the racing better, it would cut costs.

+1

What's the deal with the thread czars? People get pissed when someone strays slightly off topic. So what if we morphed into a discussion on shocks, adjustments, wings, etc. Get a life!

I agree with banning all cockpit adjustments. This is not in the spirit of "Sprint Car" racing. It is a sprint race ~ 30 laps or so. The intent is to set the car up to be the best over the race distance - no changes in between. Those that get it right, guess right, or know how to set up a car for the race distance usually win. That is the reward. There shouldn't be any do-overs or second chances (red flag adjustments or cockpit adjustments).

This is my opinion and what I like to see when I go to a race. I want to see who set their car up the best for the length of the race and what driver can make his/her car work for the track conditions present. As for the cost, I agree it would slightly lower costs if adjustable shocks were not allowed. As someone stated, they would have to buy umpteen different valve shocks if they couldn't use adjustables. Guess what, we still have to buy umpteen different valve shocks WITH the adjustables - gotta have spares and replacements. So, no adjustables allowed, no money spent on adjustables. Bottom line is, if you don't spend the money there, it'll be spent on something else. Is money really being saved in the long run either way?

Re: Is it time to shrink the sprint tires a bit?
 

Originally Posted by SUPERDUKE:
:11:

hell i seen tires run all year on the fronts and buy two sets of rears all year and win races! Ask johnny rutherford! :14::15:

Yeah, but Monkey Wards isn't around to sell them Riversides anymore! :32: