Its sad whats happen to sprint car racing
 

Back in my day 1979 we raced east bay non- wing as it should be!!!!! They had 125 sprint cars qual. Every night! For 3 nights! Drivers like s kinser r shuman d wolfgang the swindells ferkel allen smith anderson saldana sheldon kinser at the time the best from coast to coast! By the way for my fans i started 6th in sat a-main and finnished 14th! Was up too 2nd and blisterd a new rr after winning my heat 3 nights in a row the only usac driver to make the a main!!!!! Ok my point is now we have 32 cars there? Why? Whos fault is it? Back then we had $5000 steel engines $ 80 rr i know its 2010 so just think how all this happen and what needs to get back there!:22:

Re: Its sad whats happen to sprint car racing
 

Do you know what the purses were at the time? I punched numbers into an inflation calculator (yeah; I'm a dweeb). The RR wasn't too far off ($80 in 1979=$234 in 2008, although that obviously doesn't take into account the tire's longevity). The engine cost definitely isn't close though ($5000 in 1979=$14,643, again, not taking into account legitivity). Do you have any purse numbers from back then, or any insight as to how many races a RR lasted in '79 vs. today, and how long engines were lasting in 1979 vs. today?

Re: Its sad whats happen to sprint car racing
 

Super Duke.............I'm a Lee Kunzman fan from way back and it is sad that USAC ruined their deal. Back in the day USAC was filled with "Characters"..........Kunzer, Saldana, Sessions, Puterbaugh, Olivero, Beale, Cassella, Sheldon, Astone, Walkup, Chassey, Gary B..........and of course the "Super Duke" and many many others..........I used to look froward to USDAC coming to my hometown of Reading, PA to watch you guys race........but now its just a bunch of rich kids driving for their dads or rich parents buying rides for their kids...........and then the few who love the sport trying to make it without $$$$$$$.

I long for the good old days !!!!!

Re: Its sad whats happen to sprint car racing
 

I personally think 32 cars in todays economy is pretty damn good.

Re: Its sad whats happen to sprint car racing
 

Please check your calendar, It's not 1979. There are many things (probably thousands) in this world that are not the same as they were 31 years ago.:17:
Just a crazy thought!!;)

If you are not happy with any of these said things, stay away or distance yourself from them!!!!!!!! PLEASE

I believe Super is referring to the 79 Winternationals(???) I'd love to read that entry list top to bottom.

I wonder what they paid for tow money back then. 100 cars not making the show costs somebody something. Was it the promoter or the racers?

I hope the promoter had Knoxville type stands to hold all the fans it takes to adequately pay all those cars.

Of course, I can't understand why that kind of success would keep USAC away for 30 years.
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Re: Its sad whats happen to sprint car racing
 

Duke's right-

population is growing, 35 million + since 1979, yet the car counts are dropping. So is attendance.

Those seats you see outside the track are to be filled, making it profitable. Giving you a place to run.


You sir, may be better off withan SCCA club car where spectator attendance is not an issue.

---------- Post added at 06:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:14 PM ----------

Car count and attendance go hand in hand--more moolah from the stands and concessions-more moolah fo' the racers.
Filtered by your popular local promoter of course.:2:

Re: Its sad whats happen to sprint car racing
 

That's right, chase fans away because they see problems and bring them to light. Problems that show just how bad racing has gotten with costs, interest, and competitiveness.

Superduke has some very interesting and often "right on" posts. Too bar the powers that be won't actually look at them and fix them properly instead of throwing money at BS things like RPM limiters.

Remove the exotice metals, mandate tires be made to last longer (hard compounds) and force chassis's to be universal.

Do you think I should distance myself from racing now because I agree with Superduke?

Re: Its sad whats happen to sprint car racing
 

your 100% right! Lee and i had a apartment in indy for several years! Neat guy good friend and a great driver!!!!!!!!!!!!!:9:

---------- Post added at 06:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:17 PM ----------

no tow money!! You raced for it!!!!!!!!!!! It was a woo race!

Re: Its sad whats happen to sprint car racing
 

East Bay Raceway Park - Winter National preliminary,Tampa, FL
Date of Race: 2/7/1979
A Feature
1: Wolfgang, Doug (20 - Trostle) 2: Williamson, Kramer (41 - Karwaski) 3: Carson, Shane (6 - French) 4: Pitzer, Paul (29 - Weikert) 5: Beaber, Johnny (3x - Kemenah)
East Bay Raceway Park - Winter National preliminary,Tampa, FL
Date of Race: 2/8/1979
A Feature
1: Anderson, Johnny (21 - Woodruff) 2: East, Bob (4c - Cook) 3: Wolfgang, Doug (20 - Trostle) 4: Kinser, Steve (11) 5: May, Dub (28)
East Bay Raceway Park - Winter National preliminary,Tampa, FL
Date of Race: 2/9/1979
A Feature
1: Shuman, Ron (721 - Mecom/Kalb) 2: Kinser, Steve (11) 3: Anderson, Johnny (21 - Woodruff) 4: James, Lee (15) 5: East, Bob (4c - Cook)
East Bay Raceway Park - Winter Nationals,Tampa, FL
Date of Race: 2/10/1979
A Feature
1: Wolfgang, Doug (20 - Trostle) 2: Anderson, Johnny (21 - Woodruff) 3: Ferkel, Rick (0 - Daugherty) 4: Shuman, Ron (721 - Mecom/Kalb) 5: Kinser, Steve (11) 6: James, Lee (15 - Pettet) 7: Williamson, Kramer (41 - Karwaski) 8: Carson, Shane (6 - French) 9: East, Bob (4c - Cook) 10: Brooks, Mike (12 - Annett) 11: Marshall, Bobby (19) 12: Smith, Randy (43 - Graham) 13: Pitzer, Paul (29 - Weikert) 14: Cook, Duke (6 - Siebert) 15: May, Dub (28) 16: Mack, Don (4 - Howells) 17: Daniels, Ronnie (38) 18: Gray, Terry (10) 19: Smith, Robert (3) 20: Saldana, Joe (70 - Snell) 21: Beaber, Johnny (3x - Kemenah) 22: Nichols, Rick (32 - Haines) 23: Kinser, Bob (65 - Shields) 24: Allen, Bobby (1a)

This is from http://www.openwheeltimes.com, I was only about one and half years old back then. Where does Eck get all of these results from?

Re: Its sad whats happen to sprint car racing
 

if you read my post i know what year it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!:26::14::15:

---------- Post added at 06:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:22 PM ----------

sorry about getting old! Please give all results for the whole week? Where did i stat in the a main?

---------- Post added at 06:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:22 PM ----------

check with speed sport news they have all results:22:

Re: Its sad whats happen to sprint car racing
 

Sorry Duke, thats all I could find. I'm too poor to afford NSSN. Shipping to Canada doubles the price of any subscription....

Re: Its sad whats happen to sprint car racing
 

ok thanks!

Re: Its sad whats happen to sprint car racing
 

Here is the night before Eastbay

Volusia County Speedway (1/2d),Barberville, FL
Date of Race: 2/4/1979
View Race Notes
A Feature
1: Barr, Allen 2: Cook, Duke (6 - Siebert) 3: Anderson, Johnny (21 - Woodruff) 4: East, Bob (4c - Cook) 5: Mack, Don (4 - Howells)

Re: Its sad whats happen to sprint car racing
 

I have to agree with Duke...the sport was much better off when a hardworking auto mechanic or someone of similar economic status could afford to field a sprinter. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to go to your GM dealer, buy a 350 long block, add an oil pan, injector and mag and be able to keep up motor wise??? I wish today the cost versus purse would encourage owners to hire drivers based on merit instead of how many decals they can plaster a car with.

Here is something to think about regarding car count in Florida this year......

32 cars at the USAC race, plus around 40ish cars at the ALL STARS/WOO races. Right there shows around 75 top shelf sprinters in Florida (410 cars). I looked quickly and didn't see any of the same cars running winged and nonwinged but may have missed a few.

Then lets add in another 50 plus cars who are going to run the king of 360's race next week. Out of those 50 figure 25 of them also already ran 410 races so now our Florida sprinter total is over 100 cars. However, many of these guys use a different car for the 360 and the 410 so you could say there were more like 115 different sprinters racing in FL this season so far.

OOPS!! Almost forgot the TBARA winged asphalt guys...what will they have, 20ish cars???

Now we are up to the 130 car count in Florida "JUST LIKE" in 1979 with one exception....FREAKING DIVISION!!!!!

Winged cars, non wing cars, 410s, 360s, Dirt cars, asphalt cars....blah blah blah... THERE'S YOUR PROBLEM!!!!

Used to be sprint car racing, same car with or without the wings, same car dirt vs asphalt with a few exceptions. Now there is no such thing a a sprint car race.....you have to have some other word or number in front of sprint car. And sadly, there are just enough deep pocket guys in each of them to keep me and you from being able to have a legitimate shot. Also sad is the fact that the type of sprinter requiring the least amount of motor budget (non wing) is the type that runs for the worst purse and gets the least number of races booked. It would still be feasible for a middle class guys to field a winning non wing car just about anywhere but the winners share of most races wont even cover fuel, tires, rig fuel and pit passes after the driver gets his 30-50%.

So whats the fix???? Throw the wings in the trash, go back to M&H racemasters, chuck all the cokpit adjusters??? Can't do that, all the rich people would quit..haha

Re: Its sad whats happen to sprint car racing
 

"If you are not happy with any of these said things, stay away or distance yourself from them!!!!!!!! PLEASE"

Keith,
It's tough to distance yourself from something you love.

Jim Morrison

Re: Its sad whats happen to sprint car racing
 

Darnall, I was just about to point those numbers out. I ran in the 1977 and 78 Rocky Fisher promoted shows and we ALL ran together. I even loaned Robert Smith (FL bad ass asphalt driver) a suit and helmet when his was stolen from his truck.....no enclosed trailers back then. No stupid high priced mules and four wheelers either. Push trucks came to us, and we pitted on the inside of East Bay. That gave all the fans something else to watch......pit activity.
We came to Florida to run more than 5 nights also.....with the mix of dirt and pavement.....with the same car unless you were Sammy or Ferkel, (remember his black #0 pavement car)......we ran almost 3 weeks with very few nights off.
Good fun.

Re: Its sad whats happen to sprint car racing
 

Re: Its sad whats happen to sprint car racing
 

a lot of people have!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:22:

---------- Post added at 08:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:00 PM ----------

how many weekly shows a knoxville made money last year?

Re: Its sad whats happen to sprint car racing
 

how many weekly shows a knoxville made money last year?

Re: Its sad whats happen to sprint car racing
 

Re: Its sad whats happen to sprint car racing
 

I agree with you. I have also seen predictions they feel all three USAC divisions will draw 100 cars for Copper on Dirt in Tucson, in todays economy I feel that would be a good number.

Patti

Re: Its sad whats happen to sprint car racing
 

Everyone can bust Duke's chops all they want, but i was at East Bay back then.He was right did win his heat all 3 nites in the Siebert Olds car.Can not remember who else drove the other Siebert car.I have a picture of Duke at home beside this car that i took during the practice day the day before the races.Had some good times going to all the races and hitting the Bullfrog lounge and others.
Chuck

Re: Its sad whats happen to sprint car racing
 

You won't find a bigger fan of "Old School", or "the way it was" (or today for that matter) than me, but to think it is going to revert back to those days is a bit of a stretch. The Dukester likes to continuously complain how bad it is now, and everything was so great when he ran, it makes me think he would rather see todays racing all go away because it does not meet his expectations. These "problems" you refer to in the modern racing scene have been brought to light for many many years, and comparing what was going on in 1979 to today will not fix anything. Continue reminiscing about the way it was, but this is the way it is, for better or for worse!

I'm just happy that I finally got a :26: from superduke!!

I think the point was made that there are over 100 sprint cars competing across FL right now. They aren't all in one place, so the fields are smaller but there are more fans watching in more places and more guys being successful than if everyone was in one place. Winning a stout 32 car show w USAC, or All Star show during Speedweeks is pretty noteworthy now or 30 years ago.
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Re: Its sad whats happen to sprint car racing
 

Lived down there in that era. The place was packed every night. Some years the Winternationals started on Weds and ran through Sat. Packed every night. Sure was a good winter methanol fix for this Ohio boy living in a state that didn't have weekly firebreathers. It would hold me over til I got back in the summers.

Re: Its sad whats happen to sprint car racing
 

You are correct, these 'problems' have been brought up for many years and NOTHING is ever done about it! So, if it's take it or leave it? I'm leaving it..I will not be going to as many shows as in the past, before I made an effort to go, now I might go if it's convenient for me. It's just not the same anymore.

If there is no effort to make it so that the avg. joes can run, then the avg. joes shouldn't support it. Wrong or right it's how I feel, I love racing and always will but it's time to find a different form for me to follow.

Re: Its sad whats happen to sprint car racing
 

This may be lengthy so please bear with me. The reason there were some many cars back then didn't have to do with division , as much as with drivers. WoO ran promoter optional races. He decided if his races would be wingless or not. As time went by it became wings only as did most of the drivers.Taking a wing off a sprint car tends to chase some guys off. They prefer to be "specialists" in the racing they do, instead of a racer in everything.

As for cost, that is a BS excuse, and I'm tired of hearing it. When Keith Ford can pay $500 to win at Paragon and 60 cars show up, it proves that racers will race. It isn't the money, it's the competition.

There are numerous things you can do to lower costs, just everyone is afraid to make the first move. Narrower and harder tires, 360 instead of 410, You run the same car on dirt as pavement. In the end it all adds up. Also mix up wing and non wing.

No it isn't 1979, but it could be as good if someone played his cards right.

Re: Its sad whats happen to sprint car racing
 

its the high cost of racing thats killed it!!!! No leadership!!!! All you do is go to a 350ci steel block small injectors 12-1 compression 12" wide wheels on dirt 14" wide for pavement and run the same car pavement and dirt!!!!!:14::15::15:

Re: Its sad whats happen to sprint car racing
 

Dennis, if this is all it takes to bring in 100 cars and 20,000 people to a sprint race, then put your money where your mouth is - start your own sprint car group.

I think you may have mentioned the Duke Racing League specifications once or twice or fifty times before.

I recall back in '79 when people were saying the same thing - about how great racing was in 1959. And in 1959 about 1939.

Enjoy it for what it is now or move on if it leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

I personally as a fan have no money for racing anymore. I'll be lucky to afford maybe to see 8 - 10 races this year. I used to go 70+ times a year. But I'll cherish and enjoy the hell out of every minute of it while I'm there at my 8 - 10 races.

Since you think this sucks so badly, Dennis, I guess I'll not see you at those 8 - 10 races. What a shame.:17:

Re: Its sad whats happen to sprint car racing
 

No offense to anyone.....but the car owner list from '79 isn't exactly full of gas station attendents and bell hops. There are some pretty well healed guys on there.

Everyone's right....it isn't the same. The cars,cost, driver personalities and so on. All completely different. Everyone says:If we just do "this", then it will be good again. If we just do "that", it will be good again. Truth is: you could do all of those things and it wouldn't change a thing.

The problem isn't "rich kids" or "money teams"; the problem is that there is no problem. This isn't a piece of machinary where if we just replace a part here or there it will work again. This type or entertainment right now just isn't as popular as it once was. In pockets it is, but as a whole it's not.

No offense to anyone and I truely mean this: but this sports' legacy is dying. Literally. The generations who really took to it have been dying off since about 1979. This type of sport was very much like the spirit of the generation out of WWII. Very gritty and full of daring people. It was a rough and dangerous sport that appealed to a certain type of personality that seemed to be hand and hand with that generation. People wanted to see these brave men/idiots. As the generations have past and the cars have become more common and safer; fewer and fewer people see the excitment in just watching it. Today; we have a generation of people who would rather do than watch and they would rather win than just give it the ol' "college try".

So today we have more racing and competitors than ever before, but that is drawing from a realitively small part of the population. So as more people race whatever division they race, there are less people to sit in the stands and less people willing to be "field fillers". Why get your a$$ handed to you over here when I can search around and win over there.

The only exception to this rule is when something unique like the WoO are running because often times someone will give up a night of racing for themselves to go and watch the "best".

I will say this though; the USAC racing today is as tough as it ever has been and the quality of car is unbelieveable.

Like I said; everyone is right. It's not the same, but then again if you told some of the people in Florida in 1979 who are sitting behind their keyboard right now that in 2010 they would be sitting at home pi$$ing and moaning about the sport on a message board instead of being at the races in Florida; their response would have been: I'll still be alive in 2010? Bull$hit; have you seen the size of computer NASA uses? How would I get it in my El Camino?(Popular vehical many racers lived out of in 1979) What the *uck is a message board? I'll never stop going racing.

Re: Its sad whats happen to sprint car racing
 

I just wanted to say that I'm not bashing or picking on Duke. We all have a right to our opinions and he just wants the sport to be important again.

I do respect that.

Re: Its sad whats happen to sprint car racing
 

Entertainment is a constantly evolving medium. It has evolved to the point that people prefer to don odd glasses and watch blue lizard people in an imaginary 3-D world. The minority to which we belong would rather watch fire breathing monsters shake the ground wearing safety glasses to protect our eyes from flying dirt.

A wise man once said:

"This type or entertainment right now just isn't as popular as it once was."

(Actually it just a couple of posts ago):2:

Re: Its sad whats happen to sprint car racing
 

your correct! I'am in florida now and i'am not going to scca club sprint car racing! A bunch of rich kids driving there dads cars! I really don't care! The only races i go to is to see a group of old friends (chili bowl) i live 28 miles from eldora and have not been there for 3 years!:14::15::26:

Re: Its sad whats happen to sprint car racing
 

If there is no problem with sprint car racing. I'd like to ask why is it that 'Tin Tops' as you people call them or 'Taxi Cabs' always have full fields and the stands are packed? You go to a Lucas Oil show, a WOO show, The Dream, The World, North/South you name it, the stands are packed practically standing room only. What's the deal? I have never EVER seen sprint crowds like these mentioned above.

I believe it's because they can relate to the cars themselves and probably a little more geared to the common man. These guys still distinguish Ford, Chevy, Pontiac, Dodge that ole thing. Even though the cars look the same they have the decal and powerplant that sets them apart. Most I know refer to sprints as 'dune buggies' not even cars, they don't realize the challenge it is to drive these cars, nor do they seem to care. It pains me to see some of the replies on here like "move on" or "don't come to races then". what is that? Duke has good ideas along with others on how to lower costs but they just go unheard, or worse made fun of. Over the years it's really seperated the 'have's' and 'have not's' and in recent times the 'have not's' are following the advice of a few and not coming or finding something else to do. Are you just going to ignore the problem until you have 10 Teams racing? It's come to a point in which changes are needed or die out...only time will tell what happens. My guess the stubborn will prevail and fields will continue to dwindle along with the crowds.

Re: Its sad whats happen to sprint car racing
 

your right they have slit the hogs throat now hes bleeding to death!:24:

Re: Its sad whats happen to sprint car racing
 

Run of the mill Saturday Night Stock Car Shows are really struggling. In fact; if you look at the numbers on most nights; the car counts seem to decline as the class gets cheaper. Why? Because the people running the limited classes are barely making it and a lay off or ailment may put them over the edge.

The Late Model classes that run the World 100 and such are extremely expensive to run. More than a USAC Sprint.

Often when people quit doing something or participating in something it's because the have lost whatever that connection is that they felt towards it. You lose your status to it so it loses it's status to you.

Make no mistake about it.....Auto Racing as a whole is very healthy. There is so many different classes that people just pick and choose where they want to run and where they are comfortable. What that does in return though is split and divide everything. You have more as a whole, but less in a group.

Re: Its sad whats happen to sprint car racing
 

jimmy oskie drove the other car! It was tuff only the fastest 50 cars each night got to run a heat each night! Over 120 cars time trailed each nite!:22:

Re: Its sad whats happen to sprint car racing
 

i don't think its healthy nascar cuts purses and ticket prices car counts down everywhere small crowds can you afford a usac sprint car operation to go for the championship? :22:

Re: Its sad whats happen to sprint car racing
 

sorry have not went to a movie in 20 years watch them on dish! The theater in sidney been closed for several years:14::15: