Gold Crown cars at Show
 

http://i469.photobucket.com/albums/r...n/IMG_8570.jpg

http://i469.photobucket.com/albums/r...n/IMG_8569.jpg

http://i469.photobucket.com/albums/r...n/IMG_8581.jpg

http://i469.photobucket.com/albums/r...n/IMG_8584.jpg

On display on Goodyear tires

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

I don't see a direct frontal shot of the black one but IMHO the paint makes a ton of difference in how asthetically pleasing they are. The Black One IMHO is passable to this Open Wheel fan. The White one. BLAH!

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

Bruce has done a nice job with these new bodies they look even better in person.

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

kind of reminds me of one of those rental carts..............

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

Black on looks like the old Plastic Express of Jr. Kurtz

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

The cage really looks strange. Kind of like an old jalopy or something...

Take the pods off and fix that cage so it looks a bit more sleek and it could get a passing grade.

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

Yeah, what's with the funky looking cages on these cars? Drop the front 1 or 2 inches, and you could get an entire different response.

I like the nose, tail, and understand the need for the sidepods and rear wheel setback, but please fix the way the cage looks.

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

While Mr. Ashmore has many degrees, and a great history in auto racing. At the show today I ask many people if he had ever built or designed a front engine race car? And every one told me no. Is this really true? Maby this is the problem. Another question is, have these been tested on a race track? A steel tube frame at those speeds they wish to run is really old school and unsafe for sure.

Lynn

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

needs more rake in the cage and possibly a little less side pods (or none) but its an improvement over the first design.

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

Looks like more has changed then the nose, the side pods are different then the old new silver crown cars. And how about them goodyears.

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

Well he didn't design these cars. He did the cosmetic nose surgery on these cars. These are the New Generation Silver Crown pavement cars. They have been receipients of cosmetic surgery to change their looks.

Maybe that is the reason with the new nose and flip ups on the front. People think these are new cars and they aren't. They are reheated failures kind of like the leftovers from supper during the first year of marriage: they left a bad taste in your mouth the first time and will a second time. Only think is, BBQ sauces or Ketchup will deaden the taste of the leftovers, not sure what will help with the bad taste the cars will leave.

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

Sorry I thought these were new cars with all new design. So these cars have already been raced. I have been miss led. Used race cars with new bodies. And used race cars with different tires.

Lynn

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

It sounds like you are in charge of speaking for everybody - you are not - I don't think - at least not for me.

They may have left a bad taste in your mouth, but I liked the old (new) SC cars and I like the new (new) GC cars. I went to see the new generation SC race and I will go to see the GC race.

One thing you are in charge of - constant and consistent negative posts.

Cue the guy beating a dead horse...

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

Well I'll throw in my 6 cents here(inflation, use to be 2 cents) and say I didn't like the old/new car and this one look just as bad if not worse. The previous version was unable to provide close racing/passing due to aero reasons. The new car with the new nose/sidepods won't do any better and the nose looks to me like it would provide LIFT instead of downforce. The sidepods are a joke. Sorry but this thing looks more like a rental go cart than a race car. I'm sure wings are to follow. It's been admitted on here that he has NEVER done a front engine car and I doubt he's ever designed a car for primarly oval track racing. And does Mr. Ashmore have a clue as to the history of real champ cars? Has he even BEEN to a dirt champ race, other than the new gen car? All you've done is dress a pig in a different body, a body built by 5-star who build stock car bodies and have never done an open wheel body before........ Congrats, you now have an open wheel version of the C.O.T.

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

Hey Seadog, just some FYI I am not speaking for anyone else but myself but I do believe there are quite a few other posters here that feel the same way I do.

Not all of my posts are negative. I know that conflicts with you perceived notion of me but I am sorry to break that bad news to you.

But of course, all those who disagree with you and sc96, USACfan and a few more are the evil ones around here. I don't just take what people give me as gspel. I actually look and see facts and so far the facts show these cars are not as interesting as the obsessed fanatics think they will/should be.

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

from wikipedia

Bruce Ashmore (born c. 1959 in Cambridge, England) is a race car designer who designed and developed 11 championship winning IndyCars with two different race car manufacturers, first with Lola Cars and then with Reynard Motorsports.

After graduating from Cambridge Technical University he started working for Lola Cars in Huntingdon, England. During his seventeen years with Lola he worked his way up from intern to chief designer. Bruce was a member of the design team for many race car projects and was the chief designer on the T8800, T8900, T9000, T9100, & T9200 Lola IndyCars.

Then, in 1993 Ashmore joined Reynard Motorsports to begin work on their first Indycar. Within two years Reynard overtook Lola to become the leading Indycar chassis manufacturer.

Bruce's role with Reynard Motorsport took him to the United States where he setup Reynard North America (RNA) and later built the Auto Research Center (ARC) in Indianapolis, Indiana. ARC became the Reynard North American Headquarters. Between 1993 and 1998, he served as Technical Director for RNA and later also for ARC and then in 1999 became president of RNA.

Ashmore joined Forysthe Championship Racing CART team in 2001. After two successful years with the team where he planned the Championship title bid in 2003 he left at the end of 2002 to start Ashmore Design. Ashmore Design has had contracts with Menard Competition Technologies, Menard Engineering, RuSPORT Champ Car team, Conquest Racing and more recently with C&R Racing Incorporated. Ashmore helped Chris Paulsen design the C&R Racing United States Auto Club (USAC) Silver Crown race car.

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So basically other than "helping" design a new gen car with C&R he has mainly dealt with rear engine road racing type cars/drivers. JUST the man I want leading USAC racers into the big leagues, someone with little or no clue as to the history of dirt champ cars coming from a background of looking down on USAC type drivers..........

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

Curious question: who owns the black car?

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

Facts? You are mistaking "facts" for personal opinions. "Interesting" is not a fact, it is an opinion. If you're slotting me into your "obsessed fanatics" category, that seems to be kind of drastic, don't you think? I like them, but my life doesn't revolve it. I don't live or die by these cars.:10:

That's OK if you hate these cars. Everyone is entitled to their OPINION. Or with you, everyone is entitled to your opinion.

Can you link me to a positive post that you've made? Thanks.

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

If I'm not mistaken these car looks like the lengends cars they race and I think they call them roadsters. Someone had a car out there that looked like this.

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

What's the price of one of these cars? I remember an earlier post saying they were full of carbon fiber. They run a Nascar motor (to help Nascar teams get rid of last years stuff) which I would guess is more than a sprintcar 410 motor. Are we talking 100,000 just for the chassis.

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

ummmmm, he's not good enough to do an F1 car and has NEVER done an F1 car. AND if you will note the cars he designed were REAR ENGINED and HIGH TECH and used almost 100% by road racers. AGAIN please tell me what knowledge he has of the history of dirt champ cars. And AGAIN remember he comes from a place where they look down on USAC type drivers. And yes NEWEY did all that, ASHMORE did not! And NO ONE places them on EQUAL footing when it comes to race car design otherwise Ashmore would be getting millions of dollars a year instead of having to start his own deal.......

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

Looks like they will float, maybe they will schedule a race on the Ohio River, with the boats

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

These may be what you are thinking of. This one is my Dad's and I love driving it.

http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/s...4/100_2172.jpg

http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/s...4/100_2174.jpg

http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/s...4/100_2176.jpg

When I first saw the drawings of the new body I thought the same thing. What gets my attention is that there is no reference to USAC on the cars D.O. took pix of or on their web site. http://www.goldcrownchampionship.com/

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

i don't have anything negative to say except that its ugly.

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

my question is where is the rear bumper?

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

Glad it races on pavement cause I won't be there to see it! :32:

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

Unlike few who have posted so far, I've spoken with Bruce Ashmore and can answer some of these questions. But, you'll have to wait until the next issue of the Hawkeye Racing News. You can pick up a copy of it at Kemper Arena. I do have front on shots of the black car but was also extremely interested in the tail, since that was one of the points of biggest displeasure. The slimming effect of the color black can be amazing.

There are just a couple of points I will make now. These cars displayed are redesigned based on imput on the New Gen Silver Crown car. The ones displayed are owned by Ashmore. Kits are available to convert the old cars to the new configuration.

As of this point, this is not the USAC Gold Crown Series. It is the Gold Crown Series that might have a USAC sanction.

Read all about it at Kemper Arena.

Jim Morrison
Editor
Hawkeye Racing News

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

"....unsafe for sure" Why are you sure of that?

---------- Post added at 09:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:03 PM ----------

According to Ashmore the price of this car w/o engine is $85K. A poster here that is a builder says he can sell one for $50-90K w/o engine. I don't think this car has any carbon fiber in it. I mentioned CF in another post, but I was saying that it didn't have CF. I was questioning the price/value of the car when I said that.

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

I could, but was always taught that if you wanted something, you do it yourself.

So, because of your mindless rabble here, should I run everything by you first to be sure it meets YOUR satisfaction before I post it?

Facts is Facts. You can't argue them, you can't deny them. THey are what they are. I don't infuse opinions in things I see them for what they are. Like the FACT that I didn't waste money on boondoggle of a car that is causing me to throw more money at it just so I can try to be happy.

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

Well at least there are people trying to do positive things in our sport and willing to put out the money and effort to do so. But I guess printing up fliers and plastering them all over windshields in the grocery parking lot and writing up stories nobody ever reads or hears about then plastering BULL SH#%@ all over a message board without enough BALLS to attach who you really are YOU HAVE 000 CREDIABILITY but I guess in your world you are the all knowing YOU DONT KNOW SHI%$ from shoe polish. So either find something possitive to talk about or just shut up start your own HAPPY POST and tell everyone how wonderful you are and how much you do for the sport and then you will be happy.:34::33::11;

---------- Post added at 11:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:05 PM ----------

Where do you come up with this crap ???? They ran close all the time and could pass you could draft down the straights and where do you get the idea you are going to get lift are you smoking that ditch weed. What does it matter who builds the bodies at least there made in the USA and not china or Mexico like your rental carts. And who in the world are you to question BRUCE ASHMORES talents in race car design. Let me guess you and DWB get you info from the guy running the rental carts on what will and what wont work.:26::11;

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

They didn't run very close and there was little to no passing because everytime they got close to the car in front of them they PUSHED like a dump truck. Go look at the results to see how LITTLE passing there was. And I didn't question Ashmore I pointed out he has NEVER did an F1 car and if he was in the class of a Newey he'd be making millions and not doing this car. And I don't do drugs but anyone with half a brain can see that nose will cause lift due to it's shape, the fact it slants FORWARD and has several pockets to catch air. Has the great wizard done ANY wind tunnel time on that nose and sidepods? And why would you hire a company to build an open wheel body for use on high speed large ovals that has never done anything but stock car bodies for short track racing?????? Kind of like hiring Cessna to build the next space shuttle body.... I think you may be doing drugs if you think this deal, which FAILED completely and totally with USAC and NASCAR behind it can fly with a person who has NEVER ran a racing series in charge. Go toss your money in the trash if you want but don't cry to us AGAIN when it fails. Your fan base, the people who love the crown cars, didn't support it before and won't now. Good luck, you're going to need it, and with your attitude towards those of us who have loved and supported the crown cars for years you're going to need alot of luck, like hit the lottery type of luck!

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

Answer Lucky 161 Having built and designed Indy cars from the transition of front engine roadsters and Champ dirt cars with steel tube frames to a crushable monoque crushable structure. The rules mandate that now. Ask Mr. Ashmore if he ever built a steel tube high speed formula car for 1.5 oval races? This would be a start for you to ask that question. I have to add I am envious of Mr. Ashmores achievments. And I am not on his level. What a life he has had. Most of our design and build was trial and error. I am sorry, I thought these were a new design. I did not know these were used race cars.

Lynn

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

Okay you want me to post something positive. Hmm, lets see. Oh, I am positive that the post above has to be one of the worst I have seen on IOW and trust me I have seen alot of bad ones but you definately get the award now.

While it is a nice reply, arrogant as hell, but still a nice reply. It shows your true personality and respect (or lack there of) for other people. You can goad me all you want to, sc96, but you little tempertantrum like this does nothing for your own credibility. My credibility is still intact and those who really do know me on this board know that. Just because I don't associate with the likes of you doesn't mean my credibility is any lesser for it.

So like I have said to you before, if you are going to attack me personally, do it in pm's to me. Obviously, you are not able to that and instead use a public forum to do such attacking. Which is fine. I can take it. I will do to you like I have done to others, I will brush it off and go about my way. Am I always right? No, but I am right alot more times than I am wrong. I have yet to ever see where you admit you are wrong but then again I am not an ego driven person so I guess that's where the big difference is.

I bid you good day and hope the happy pills find there way to you as it seems you need some.

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

I don't believe Mr. Ashmore is another Frank Kurtis, or A.J. Watson.............

Ashmore has worked on CART type cars. Not really close to the 'high tech' level of an F1 car, and so fricken far away from an all oval, upright, front engined car....that it's laughable.

Did he wrap a pig in new clothes.....yep
Did he make a few changes to the pig.....sure
Is the slightly changed pig in different clothes going to fly.....???

USAC didn't try to phase this style of car in, they just dumped the traditional pavement Champ Cars...did the owners like that? I seem to remember the owners having meetings and discussing their displeasure.

The NAPCAR fans didn't fill the stands to watch the last incarnation of these cars.

Why did the first attempt at starting up this type of car fail? Why are some people on here so hell bent sure that it is going to fly this time? Is Mr. Ashmore spiking the Kool-Aid....

What are the ticket prices going to be to see these cars race? If it's more than $20-$30 it just might be a hard sell.......

Not being negative, just looking at this with some reality, and not through the eyes of somebody that is trying to make a buck or two off this.

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

Show me any link to a quote where anybody of importance within the F1 community ranks him as an egual to Adrian Newey as you stated in your post earlier. You can't because there is no such thing. You are the one who stated he is as good as Newey, if so why isn't he making millions a year designing F1 cars? Why hasn't he ever designed even ONE F1 car? Why isn't he STILL doing Indy Cars if he is so great???????? No sir, you are unbelievable because what you post is false and without backing and shows a lack of credit when all you can do is take cheap shots and not back what you claim.

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

You seem to making a big jump to conclude that tube framed cars would be "unsafe for sure..." There were a lot of changes going from tube frames to aluminum monocoque to carbon fiber. To assign only one of those factors as the reason that one material is unsuitable is not likely to be correct.

Aluminum monocoque replaced tube frame design mostly for weight reasons not safety. It turns out they were not very safe. Carbon fiber was introduced to take replace the aluminum monocoque, but was deemed too expensive. The promoters of CF then proposed that CF was safer than the alumnium. The main comparison of CF with steel tube frames was that they were stronger at the same weight, which is true. However, that doesn't mean that steel tube frames cannot be safe (relatively speaking, since no race car of any kind of construction is completely safe). It means only that to build a race car using steel tube frames there would be a weight penalty for doing so. In a scenario where going faster is the goal and where there is plenty of money, that would significantly favor the CF construction. However, that is no longer the case. The cars can already go considerably faster than the sanctioning bodies will/can allow and money is tight.

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

Maybe it's important to remember that one of the original goals was to create an upright car capable fo doing something upright cars of the modern era could not do.

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

Why is there so much negativity concerning these cars? It seems to me that the glass was empty and now it is half full. If the glass becomes full we will have a new racing series with traditional front engines and a destination for sprint drivers to aspire to. I feel that if they can keep the aerodynamics out of the series and leave the racing up to the drivers and not engineers, this could be an exciting series and truthfully all we as fans want is to see exciting races that leave the racing up to the drivers.

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

This could not have been said better THANK YOU.:9:

---------- Post added at 04:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:35 PM ----------

This is very true. :8:

Re: Gold Crown cars at Show
 

ATTENTION SC96, THIS IS A NON NEGATIVE POST

I feel the negativity is more along the lines that these things were shoved down people's thorats when they were labeled New Generation Silver Crown cars. When they were introduced, USAC forced out the original pavement cars and put these in their place. That power pull alienated alot of fans and a few car owners against the cars and USAC. Also, negativity stems from people seeing how these things failed before and a few people emphatically saying these will be a success now.