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amsa rules change
Congrats to the AMSA on posting a timely outline of changes for 2010.
I feel the weight changes and spec tire will move us in the direction of reducing costs which surely will be welcomed by all. The only small detail I would like to raise is the no cutting rule on the hard tire..........I know if pushed I can get an extra couple of nights out of a RR by freshening the groove..................just a thought. Great job in making these rule changes I applaud your vision. |
Re: amsa rules change
A car and driver weight rule? Who comes up with these crazy ideas? :5:
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Im thinking AMSA should just cut all the crazy weight rules and just place in affect a stock 1000cc rule...970 for a motor on alki?...Little steep i think... Im at 210lbs and i still would need to add weight to my car to run down there... 1040 to add to anything over a 1000cc... Bolten on all that weight sounds dangerous to me...I like no zx12 motors...In my opionion running alki and gas over the past few years i really dont think theres a huge difference...If i had the cash i would buy me a 08 gsxr 1000 and run gas...Any rules on what type of gas to run?...You can get a nice race gas that will pull better numbers than running alki and be legal...
Can a old guy like myself out there get there car to 900lbs and feel safe?....Looks like the AMSA will be dominated by the younger crowd... Tire issue i have to agree with atleast letting everyone grove them...Theres another cost for everyone to buy new tires all summer...I myself buy used from midget guys... Now try to find a tire thats not groved...Good luck guys... ; ) |
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alternatively you could run alky get your car/driver to 970 and feel totally safe and be competitive right at the weight limit.
I see what Jerry is doing and its very cool.............hes giving you the choice. |
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I run alki now and weigh in at 935lbs with my recent weight loss... ; )... Dont see me adding weight or see it being competitive with 900lbs car and driver..Best bet is switch to gas and be good with that...If i came down thats what id do... Throw in the gas bladder,switch my motor harness and injection and stumble on down... ; )
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970 lbs for alky is way to much is stock is 900 lbs
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mini27 I dont understand your statement surely it depends on what you weigh??
If 970 is 'way too much" Im guessing you reckon stock at 900 will be faster? If so then you just saved yourself a bunch of money! |
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I think a 750lbs car is totally achieveable without any carbon or titanium...........throw in a 150lbs kid and you got 900lbs................I know if I ran gas there is NO WAY I could get down that low so Im at 970 on alky.
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1200sprinter... Get accsess to a mill and lathe... I machined everything i could on my car that wasnt a saftey structure,tossed the bailey motor plate,tossed the garden tractor battery,All aluminum hiems,did buy some hollow bolts...I was at 230lbs and weighed in at 963...FYI... Its alot of work... ; )... plus i run a full midget axle,1/2 radius ods/hiems,and bladder... If i ran a cheesey fuel cell and bailey front im sure to lose another 10/15lbs...
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jt looked at this long and hard, he wanted to make everyone as even as possible. He has had lots of phone calls I hear that said he had make the right choice on the weight and tires rule. there will always be someone that don't agree but, you can't please everyone there will always be someone that wants to ***** about anything that wouldn't be in thats person best intrest. Keep up the good work JT you are on the right track. and you will have a great 2010 season.
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dont feel bad a stock 1200 or 1100 on gas or alcohol has to weigh 1040 so if this is a 1200 class why are they penalized the most for when its a 1200 class ..thats crazy ..should just change it to a 1000cc class
---------- Post added at 02:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:39 PM ---------- a 1200 on Lawrenceburg track will go threw alot of fuel when you add the weight factor to it you will have to weigh around 1100 pounds to start the race to make the weight if your lucky and dont have tons of cautions |
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i dont care what the weight is, but a 70 pound difference is way to much especially when methanol is not that big of an advantage over gas.
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Re: amsa rules change
Just noticed that the Midwest Mini Sprints also posted there 2010 rules also not much different, but a lil tighter... Looks like 2011 will be even better.-Andy
midwestminisprints.com |
Re: amsa rules change
again I have to ask what do you mean by way too much.................if you mean you are losing the advantage of spending money on an alcohol system because of the weight penalty then its your choice to make!
A 150lb driver in a bailey with a gsxr1000 on gas will be tough to beat total weight probably close to the 900lbs rule and be totally competitive at the least cost A 200lb driver no matter what will be around 950lbs and will either run alky and add 20lbs to the 970 weight or try and shave off as much as poss run gas and be around 930 ish................... A 250lbs driver will be close to 1000lbs and do what ever he can to make more hp............... What the rules do is discourage dad from spending 6 or 7 grand on a motor burning alki tuned up fit to burst and whipping the opposition every week because if hes smart he will realize he doesnt NEED TO!!!!! that is until I show up over there with my bored ported polished stroked j&e 'd blackbird firebreather! ..........ah the good old days!!! |
Re: amsa rules change
I like the tire rule but would have appreciated a couple of races to use up the softer Hoosier tires I have in my trailer. Not sure what I am going to do with those now. Did the MMSA implement a spec tire?
Anyone want to buy a tire groover? |
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The MMSA does not have a tire rule for 2010 and does not show one for 2011 either. Also they are holding their car and driver weight at 900 lbs for gas or alcohol.
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yes they did
---------- Post added at 06:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:06 PM ---------- Quote:
and i weigh maybe 910 lbs roughly as is, where am i going to add 60 pounds? if some light weight driver whos car is on gas can only weigh 900 pounds, how is that fair when i have to weigh 970 because of something that really isnt a huge advantage at all? |
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weigh maybe 910 lbs roughly as is, where am i going to add 60 pounds? if some light weight driver whos car is on gas can only weigh 900 pounds, how is that fair when i have to weigh 970 because of something that really isnt a huge advantage at all?
If it isint that much advantage sell the alcohol conversion to the mmsa boys make yourself some money and lose 10lbs off the car shouldnt be too difficult |
Re: amsa rules change
With the MMSA going gas only in 2011 I don't see many of those guys buying up alcohol conversion systems.
We were considering a change to alcohol but with the new AMSA weight rules and MMSA going gas only I think we'll stick with what we have. |
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Jerry,
I love the new rules. You're never going to make everyone 100 % happy but I think the changes you've made are definitely trying to cut expenses and keep people on a level playing field. |
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Agreed again 970 is alittle off for running Alki... Heck the 07 gsxr on gas pull better than my 06 on alki... If ya wanna make it cheap maybe eliminate all gas adjustable shocks to!?...Hope you AMSA is getting cash from hoosier or american racer to... Because u guys will be buying a boatload of new right rears im guessing...
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amsa isn't getting any money from either tire company, that is why JT said you could buy your tires off of either co. if he was getting money, you could only buy from that one Co. that he got the money from and couldn't buy from the other co. wish you cry babys would do your home work before you fly off the mouth. Did you even ask that question? No just blowing in the wind. Half of you guys don't even know what you are talking about. the higher weight is to stop you from building that big motor. and the little guy who can't spend that kind of money will have a chance to race a fair race and not be left in the dirt by that big build motor. So if you think that is to much weight, don't build your motor so big. go for the less weight lets make it even for all. mmsa isn't doing much anything different this year. So you can see who is looking out for his members with this weight and tire rule.
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its stock just on alky 70 ib just 4 that WOW
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Why not just switch to gas then?
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Harry... Seems like you should do your home work and shut your mouth... 1 ...i race with another mini sprint group myself...2 ...i have little cash and run a stock motor... 3... Plane and simple alki has very little advantage is what people are getting at on here and 970 is a rediculas weight over a 900lbs on gas!...ADVANTAGE THE SMALL GUY AND YOUNG GUN KIDS...
Totally understandable to control engine building...just plain ELIMINATE ANYTHING over a 1000cc to make it easy... This type of **** kills a class... |
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finally someone makes a good point. if you want to stop the big motors put weight rules on them not people stock on alky
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nevermind.
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Smitty there were NO zx12 motors in the AMSA last year if youd like to clarify be my guest. zx12 motors are very hard to find anymore and the ones that are available are usually high dollar...........the rules are ENCOURAGING the members to be stock on gas at 1000cc without FORCING them to do that......the option is there to race almost anything you want ................wtg JT |
Re: amsa rules change
I think AMSA is on the right line of thinking but the weights are off. So hopefully over time those weights will be tweaked. Lets face it an older 1100-1205 is only going to turn 11.1 -11.5 so they are already at a disadvantage to the new 13.2 1000cc motors. Now AMSA is going to stick another #140 on them? Just because you can show a power to weight calculation on paper does not mean that it translates to the ground. #70 for running ALKY?
As for MMSA think on going to all gas in 2011?????????? Alky is safer, Alky is cleaner, Alky runs cooler. And yes is produces slightly more power. Everyone looking at Henchcraft and Rossen on these Alky conversion kits think I don’t want to spend another $4000. Well you don’t have to. Do your home work and piece the stuff together yourself. You can do it for about $2000 or less. All I can say is if MMSA rules hold true for 2011 it will be good for other groups like AMSA, IMSA, MOLS, WMSA. You mite have to do more traveling but that’s not all bad either. Q. :7::7::7::7: |
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way to go 1200 sprinter, AMSA didn't run any ZX12, there was I think only 2 years of them, and not to may is left. They blow up faster, and JT didn't want any one to buy them so he stop it before they got here. They are banding them out East I hear, so why do you want to get one. I have been racing since I was 5 and raced about anything that had tires. So I have forgotten more then some of you know. The fact is JT wants it all fair. If you guys can't understand that, then you have a choice, AMSA or MMSA. for me, it will be AMSA which JT don't own any cars and he wants to see a different driver in the winner spot, not just a few that is owned by you all know who with MMSA or the drivers that is in his back pocket. I bet I will catch #### over that remark. So be it.
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Harry or Harriet we ran very compeditively with the MMSA and I nor my son are in Alan's back pocket. I have read so many negative comments it's unbelievable. We race for fun. Nothing more. I try to teach my young son some lessons in life through racing and when we did run with you it was the most non enjoyment of times. We felt like outcast and non welcome. Rules will come and go. I don't agree with all the changes from both organizations, but we will adjust and enjoy our time doing what we enjoy together. (By the way nice spelling and grammer)
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Well I guess its all a moot point because rules are rules and are the same for everyone,
The only thing Id offer up for consideration is that possibly stock on gas should be 920/5 instead of 900 and that cuttin of the spec tire is allowed. Also I dont see why the zx12 should be banned as long as the appropriate weight penalty is applied...........the reason Im saying this is that the zx12 is the only engine over 1000cc that can keep up with the modern 1000's so why not let it be legal? |
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The concern was that it would become like the 600cc class when the Zx-636 came out. You HAD to have a 636 to be competitive, and an engine package for one ran $4000-$5000, and now, the ZX-12 packages are going for more than that. |
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the 1000cc motors with alky was 940 thats only a 30lbs more but look at the 1200 or 1100 gas or alky 940 to 1040 100lb increase wow know thats crazy 1100 or 1200 dont have a chance with a 1000cc on alky or a gas 1000cc motor taken to stewert dyno and getting an increase of 30hp on gas and only weighting 900lbs.. the 1200s and 1100s are done they are a short track motor and have alot of low end torque ...but since the majority of the races are at Lawrenceburg a 1100 or 1200 will never win.. they didnt have a chance last year or this year at the burg ..and not at 1040lbs
In the last 2 years at Lawrenceburg on the new track can anyone tell me if a 1100 or a 1200 ever won a race there at 940lbs ??? |
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Mr Parker you ran just one time with amsa on Nov. 3rd. And I'm NOT Harriet, so do your homework. If you felt uncomfortable running with amsa sorry about that. They are very friendly and go out of their way to say hello, glad to see you and you are always welcome back any time. Ms Harriet does work for amsa but I sure am not her. My name is Harry Jones. I have been to both groups and watched both in action. If you don't feel welcome my advice is stay with the other group.
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ok I am tired of people taking my name in vain.I have stayed out of this because I don't have anything to do with it.I HAVE NEVER MADE ANYONE UNWELCOME TO RACE WITH AMSA. All I do is keep the stats and answer questions,I don't make the rules but I do know them I make a point of it so I can answer questions.I make a point to welcome when they sign in and ask people back when they pick up their winnings .I have never been to a MMSA race.I don't even live in Indiana in the winter,so PLEASE leave me out of this.If I have anything to say I say it or I will pm you personally.
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