Winter tqs
 

Is there anywhere to run a tq during the winter? Any indoor stuff maybe non wing mini sprints that would let tqs run with them?

Brad

Re: Winter tqs
 

Back east we have 2 or 3 shows indoors with the TQ's, 1 in Atlantic City in Jan. and I think they are having 2 shows at Providence with the first being early Dec. The Atlantic City show is alot of fun, packed house right on the boardwalk in the middle of all the casinos.

Re: Winter tqs
 

east coast TQs have a very strong advantage over indiana TQs.......what does your race pay? i hear there may be a race at duquion illinois but will depend again on car count

Re: Winter tqs
 

the race in Atlantic City usually pays $5,000 to win and I think the Providence show pays between $2,000-$3,000. In both races they run TQ's and 600's but the TQ wins most of the time.

Re: Winter tqs
 

Jan.28,29.30th they are haveing the TQ winter Nationals at Charlotte County Motorsports Park, In Punta Gorda, Florida and It Is $1,000 to win! I think they are expecting quite a few cars for this event and they are gonna try and have the event every year too.

Brandon Gray#11:22:

Re: Winter tqs
 

Brad, Brandon, you should look up their engine and car rules first, the guys up East run a "roadster" type car, sidewinder, with most of them using an outboard on the left, driveline, and the center section is outside on the left also, plus, at last count, they were running the 4v 750 Suzies, pretty much a similar engine in Florida. PM knoke77, if you need some info, he's been there, and Willis has been to Florida. Bob

---------- Post added at 01:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:31 PM ----------

You can find info on both, just google www.can-ammidgets.com, or www.fltqmidgets.com

Re: Winter tqs
 

The Can-Am midgets will flat put a whipping on any upright TQ that ventures their way. They run a roadster type chassis with everything hanging off the left side which makes running an "upright" TQ with them a very big disadvantage. On dirt this may not be quite a disadvantage but when we raced indoors with them at the Niagra Falls Convention center the floors were concrete with coke syrup and rosin sprayed on them. As soon as the concrete took rubber we were out to lunch. I even had Bob Nichols (who was a TQ setup master) in my pits and it was a lost cause.

My nephew ran his upright mini-sprint down in Florida a couple of years ago against the offset cars and did fairly well but this was on dirt.

Re: Winter tqs
 

went with eric ferhrman the first year back at the boardwalk and our type of car is out to lunch there. its a neat place to go go see a race and a lot of different kind of cars will be there but leave the car in the shop.

Re: Winter tqs
 

Be careful going down there, you might have to race against a car that still has a transmission. Real scary stuff.

Re: Winter tqs
 

Not scary, just not legal per either Indiana TQ group rulebook.

Re: Winter tqs
 

yep, been in the rule book since 1961.

Re: Winter tqs
 

And has been discussed every couple years about whether to change or not. Please.....don't come in here, run a few races and act like you know everything that's gone on with TQ's. This is my last post on this subject.

Re: Winter tqs
 

I have never claimed to know everything that has gone on in TQs. Just pointing out how some of those FL cars are set-up. This is my 3rd post on this subject

RE: Winter TQ's
 

Alright, I see some sarcasm going around, so let me steer clear of that. No offense, Cincy, but I'm guessing that you're meaning the "setup" that you used at Lawrenceburg? I feel like it was a "jab" (that you brought it up as being "scary") at those that had an issue with it at that race. Not to mention that it was against the rule book, but allowed anyway. It should be a closed situation and not allowed, but from what I hear, there might be a change for next year, which is unfortunate. There's a lot to lose by allowing this, but not a lot to gain.

I just don't see the point in changing the rules for it. The rules are in place for a reason and I feel were perfectly fine and didn't need to be bent. Especially for a car that had already ran with a Honda motor. The change in rules won't benefit competition. This is a major issue, which I hope is discussed with the series officials, owners and drivers before next season, which I'm sure it will be.

This is my opinion, no offense intended to anyone. Sorry, if it comes across as anything other than trying to be constructive!
:2:

Re: Winter tqs
 

Last year, MTQRL allowed an experimental car at two racetracks last year. We have no plans to change our rules except something pertaining to safety. The goal of our series is to keep with the traditions of TQ racing such as racing at fairground tracks, maintaining its low cost, and keeping it a sport of the working person.

I believe our officials have spoken with Cincy and I hope have let him know what changes need to be made to make his car fit our rules.

Re: Winter tqs
 

Jen, thanks for so many things, you, Mark, and the rest have done, and many thanks for clearing the air on this subject, you've just anchored the ship, now we know where it's headed, more fun racing, and no big changes, that would turn the ship loose again. Much appreciated! Bob

Re: Winter tqs
 

I'm not real familiar with TQ's, but whats the problem with a car having a transmission?

Re: Winter tqs
 

There is no problem with a car having a transmission. TQ's are ran like that all over the country.
There is also no problem with sticking with the rules as they are.

The problem is the President and Tech Dir. from the MTQRL gave me permission to build a car with a transmission, I did, and NOW it's not legal. The racers were informed of my car at Greensburg and were told this was being done. The racers were asked at the drivers meeting if anyone had a problem with it and nobody said a thing, and I was allowed to race. 1 week later at Lawrenceburg it didn't work out the same, and I was told just before hot laps that I couldn't race. Now I find out through this thread that my car is not legal.:11: Very professional guys. Very professional. What a waste of my time and money.

Carl Cruse

Re: Winter tqs
 

I have no opinion on this matter of whether the car should be legal or illegal.

But there are a couple comments I have for clarification purposes.

At Greensburg, when it was discussed at the drivers meeting, it was explained that it was an experiment. It was also said that the car would start last in all races. It was pointed out at that time that the car did not meet the existing rules and it was part of some experimenting that was being done. Drivers and owners were encouraged to go look at the car, which many did, and give their feedback to the officials.

I can not speak for what happened as Lawrenceburg as I was not their.

I thought this clarification may be helpful for those not involved.

RE: Winter TQ's
 

I agree with Bob, once again. More great fun and no big changes. After a great first year, I can't see anything that needs tweaked, even a little bit!

Finally, there's nothing wrong with experimenting and testing new things. However, at the same time, not everything can be legalized. So, if you're one to build something experimental, it should be realized that it might not become legal. I'm sure that there's a lot that will be learned from this and will only help in the future.

Re: Winter tqs
 

Also for clarification. It was stated by Mark at the Greensburg drivers meeting that the experiment would be run through out the 2010 season and a desicion made on whether to adjust the rules for 2011.

I was told I would be able to run the car all next year. Mark told me I couldn't run at the Burg because of the points battle being so close. Which I can understand. Thanks to Charlie for at least letting me hot lap.

I never would have invested my time or money for an experiment that only would last 1 race and a hot lap session.

Re: Winter tqs
 

First of all, TQs in the Northeast (which to my knowledge are all pavement) and apparently a few that they have in Florida are run this way. California isn't, never has been, nor has Indiana.

As for your time and money, I wouldn't of either, and knowing the rules before hand, and looking at my car at Shelbyville and seeing how it could be done legally, I don't understand why you did it that way anyways. Your car didn't just become illegal, it was never legal per the MTQRL rulebook. You can still be legal, just cut your tranny off and hook the motor up through the driveline like every other TQ in the MTQRL and come race. I wasn't at Greensburg, and admittedly I was very vocal at Lawrenceburg, because my team took the time to do our R and D through the rulebook. And I wasn't about to let our time and money be wasted without speaking my concerns. Trust me, I would love to be able to shift my motor, but I want a traditonal TQ, not a mini sprint. If all of this makes me a jerk, so be it, it's nothing personal on my end.

Re: Winter tqs
 

First of all I don't think anybody is a jerk. I am not mad at any racer no matter how they feel about my car. I also understand you wanting to protect your investment in R&D. I did talk to you at Shelbyville and looked at your car. You have alot of work and money in your set-up thats for sure. Lots of one-off parts. After Shelbyville I contacted Mark to ask about rules and he hooked me up with the Tech Dir. Jerry Frickman. Jerry and I started talking about how it could be made eaisier and cheaper for the regular joe to get into TQ's. Not the guy who has a machine shop and can make anything work. We came up with the set-up on my car, I got the O.K. and built the car, and now here we are. I can't tell the future. All I can go by is what I was told I could do.

---------- Post added at 10:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:56 AM ----------

Just for the record my car can not be shifted nor can I use the clutch. The only thing different about my car is the drive shaft is conected to the transmission output shaft, I still have to be pushed started. The drive is set up like a dwarf car or modlite.

Re: Winter tqs
 

Slide 22, a transmission in a minisprint, is not a problem, because that's the way your rules are written, the rule for a TQ is different, and very simple, a one to one direct connection, between the output end of the crankshaft, and the lower quickchange gear in the rear end. No reduction in ratio, between the end of the crank, and the QC rear end. I have a question for you, would your rules allow a QC rear end, in a mini-sprint? Thanks! Bob:)

---------- Post added at 10:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 AM ----------

Carl, when you called me,and asked about how this hook up is done, and I explained it to you, I also told you it wasn't legal, under our present rules, I PM'd you, on here, and explained that again, and, I also called you, and left you a message, again explaining that under the current rules, it would be illegal, you didn't respond to either, so I assumed you had taken my advice, and chose the conventional method of hooking up your engine, as you already had a "conventional" TQ driveline, in your car. A few guys have gutted the trans case, and used it for the sump, but are hooked up to the end of the crank, just as the rules state. I hope we have closure on this matter. Bob :)

RE: Winter TQ's
 

First, I would like to apologize for my first post. After reading it, I can see that it sounded a lot more "rough" than I intended, especially towards the series. I was mainly just trying to speak my opinion, but can see that I might have offended some people. This was not my intention, nor do I hope this happened.

I think the organization in reference (MTQRL) is a first-class organization. Also, they've done a lot for TQ racing in their first year and I can't wait to see what they do in the future. If they keep doing what they're doing, the success will come!

Also, I respect "Cincy" for trying to be different and going after the "racing dream". However, it's unfortunate the situation ever came to this. Hopefully he'll slap the "conventional" set-up in there and go racing again.

Finally, back to the post, does anyone have a huge building in Indiana to toss some dirt in and go racing?! :2:

Re: Winter tqs
 

Without just using the phrase "it's against the rules", will someone explain the advantage of leaving the transmission on. All I keep hearing is how its against the rules. No one has offered a valid reason as to why other that's just the way it is. It sounds like he took a stock motor and put it in a tq. What's wrong with that? Stock motors off wrecked bikes can be bought off ebay for less than a grand. Then you're eliminating having to take it to a machine shop and having it specially cut down. Just curious. Not trying to sling mud. (no pun intended)

Re: Winter tqs
 

No, per AMSA rules it has to be a chain drive. I assume a driveline would be pretty easy to do, other than changing the engine mounts. The modlites around here use a quick change, I'm sure it can be done on a mini sprint with the same engines. Although I do like not having to be push started...

Re: Winter tqs
 

Hey, do we have Dog Food and Glue yet?


Wade Vest

Re: Winter tqs
 

Jeremy, isn't that good enough, it is against the rule, something that most of us are required to live by, I explained the rule, as it is written, and that is what we live by. And, as a side note, we run a "traditional TQ Midget", we are allowed clutches, but no gear boxes. The object is to not push the cars out of the pipeline, that adhere to this, and other rules, we know going in, that when we pick another engine, other than a long stroke, SOHC Honda motor, that we are at a disadvantage, because of the rule, we can't multiply the RPM by going thru ANY KIND of gear reducer, except in the rear end. I am running a 600cc Yamaha, the old 600r, and it is very competitive, and very inexpensive, I have less in 4 motors, than a set of rods for a Honda costs, the first engine I put together, and is still in good running condition, had over 80 nights of racing on it, before I pulled it, and put another one in, and these are motors out of bikes, with a minimum of 7,000 miles on them with no new parts put in them, before they go in the car. Like I said, this is what the MAJORITY of the car owners want, so it will probably stay that way for many years into the future. And, nowhere does it say you have to cut off the trans, several of the guys just unload the gears, use that space as a sump, so they don't have to go to a dry sump, hook up to the crankshaft, bolt it to the motorplate, and go racing. How easy could that be?:) Bob

Re: Winter tqs
 

Here is the deal, a "TQ",in this part of the world, states that the driveline be connected to the CRANKSHAFT, not the output shaft of a transmission.

The word "transmission" covers too many areas that I do not want to get into. That would open up a can of worms that would be impossible to control. What it boils down to is that this kind of move would blur the fine line between a TQ and a minisprint. I see Carl's point of view, however, I can not allow for this change at this time. I bet that the Minisprints would tell him the same thing.

If he wants to keep that engine and make an adapter to run it off the CRANKSHAFT while keeping the transmission intact fine by me. I am sorry that he got bad information from the higher-ups, but Jerry is the Director of Competition, not the Tech inspector. He should have e-mailed either me or Randy. Better yet, he should have just followed the rule book to begin with.

I like Carl. He seems like a nice enough guy, however, I will not make an exception in the rules just for him. If I do that, I have to do it for everyone. If I do that, I just as well take the rulebook and burn it.

Lets put this to rest.

---------- Post added at 03:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:19 PM ----------

[QUOTE=Cincy Dirt Bowl;143282]<SNIP> After Shelbyville I contacted Mark to ask about rules and he hooked me up with the Tech Dir. Jerry Frickman. Jerry and I started talking about how it could be made eaisier and cheaper for the regular joe to get into TQ's.......[COLOR="Black"]

Carl, I thought we had this taken care of at Lawrenceburg. I am all for keeping cost down. I am also into R&D. I am first and formost into following the rules. I am sorry that Jerry gave you bad input. I knew nothing about your car until you unloaded it. Had I known before hand, I would have told you then not to bother setting it up the way you did. Did you ever think about connecting the driveshaft to the CRANKSHAFT with the case intact? I would have no problem with that. A "transmission" covers too many areas that I can not enforce.

The way you have it set up, it is neither a TQ nor a Minisprint. It is a half-breed of the two. I am not going to allow people to "run what they brought". Where do I draw the line? I am going to draw it at the rule book.

Again, sorry you got bad input. Feel free to e-mail or call me with any questions you have.

Re: Winter tqs
 

Way to go Charlie

Re: Winter tqs
 

Finally an explanation!!! Instead of just saying its illegal someone finally explains why. lol. I've been looking for that since since this topic opened. Because I said so is only an exceptable answer til they start school. lol My first grader asks why and my four year old just says ok and walks away.

Re: Winter tqs
 

I wouldn't say that. We use to run with them alot in NC. Not to brag, but we could kick thier a@@. Now the Can-Am bunch was another story. I think the best finish there was third. (in our up-right against thier roadsters)



See ya in a few months,

Re: Winter tqs
 

to everyone,

i have to ask after reading about the guy whos car isnt going to be legal, what can tq owners do in the near future to keep engine costs down and stay competitive. The reason i ask is the cars that won races this year, there engines will only continue to get more expensive since parts are becoming harder to come by. The parts i bought to rebuild my engine for 2010 are 3 times as expensive as they were in 2007. If tqs get more expensive, it will cost the same as focus midgets. Just interested what we can do to keep our prices of engines down, while keeping the traditional tq? why dont tq series check cc?

Re: Winter tqs
 

why not go to an all 600cc rule. I'm sure the new 600's put out the same/more as those old tq engines... and they're a dime a dozen for less than $1000 on ebay..

Re: Winter tqs
 

or why not stick to the rules since most of the guys out there aren't going to convert to another engine if they have to. this is brought up every winter and it gets kinda old really quick. you can run something other then a Honda, Willis ran three different brands of engines this season and was competitive, you just have to do it within the rules as Charlie stated. Why change something that is going great and still attracting a good car count. I do understand what TQ14 is stating as far as referring to engine cost. But a big engine isn't always a must to be competitive. a few races in the 40x car this season we ran a stock Economy engine that had been sitting around for awhile in a car that was the heaviest of all the cars when all the cars got weighed (even had a steel rear axle)and we led and just about won 2 of the 3 features we ran with it. J bird just had to work a little harder on the setup and prep the track with a special magical groove for me. Not a knock to J bird as he has a nice machine now. Not saying a spruced up strong engine like Steve has in his car doesn't help and make it easier but can still be competitive otherwise if things are clicking. Just ask Bob McClure (tq29m) about how much he has invested in his engine and he is still very competitive every week. I forget from memory on what engine he runs and how much money he has in it but its basically a stock 600 and he does it within the rules, very competitively. I think it's great to have someone like Charlie around to enforce the rules and keep things in perspective.

Re: Winter tqs
 

I'm running an 05 636 or 600 depending upon what we put in. Still working out the kinks but when we can get the RPMs up its pretty fast. Sold my 2 honda's and Kinsler fuel injection and bought 5 of em off Ebay, not a one of them more than $1000.

Re: Winter tqs
 

Ask Bob Mcclure. I think he only has around $500 in each of his engines. They seem to be very reliable also.

As far as checking the cc's, I'm working on it. I also have an electronic fuel analyzer that will check for ANY additives. :6: Gonna get REAL interesting next year........


Later,

---------- Post added at 09:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:25 PM ----------

Naw, I don't think this horse is dead yet.........:17:

---------- Post added at 09:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:25 PM ----------

The way I see things, the old Honda's have a longer stroke which allows for more compression. Alcohol LOVES compression. More compression leads to more torque. More torque means coming off the corners harder. Coming off the corners harder means faster speeds in the first 3/4 of the straights..... This engine has a lower RPM range than the short-stroked newer motors. It can have an advantage on short tracks and tighter corners.

The newer engines have a shorter stroke, higher RPMs. This engine would be better suited for a larger track where you can keep thr R's up. I have seen these turn RPMs in the 14,000 range where the Hondas are at 11,800or so. The Honda could "Top Out" before the end of the straights, while the newer engines can just keep winding higher, gaining more speed.

With the different size tracks that MTQRL runs on, it comes down to "half dozen of one, six of another". Both have thier uses. Good luck in picking the right engine. :11:

Re: Winter tqs
 

Yes, Mark DID say that. However, I told you at Lawrenceburg that this was not going to happen. I am sorry there was such a big miscommunication within the MTQRL. Mistakes will happen. Thier intentions were good, but the rule book has to be followed. Sorry for the confusion.

I will help you in any way I can, but please call or e-mail me with any questions.

Re: Winter tqs
 

[QUOTE=Uncle_Charlie;143593]Yes, Mark DID say that. However, I told you at Lawrenceburg that this was not going to happen. I am sorry there was such a big miscommunication within the MTQRL. Mistakes will happen.

I guess your right Charlie, mistakes will happen.