Non-Wingers To The Top
 

There's a discussion on another board. Wingers VS. Non-Wingers to Nascar. Why is it that the wing drivers (WoO) can't make it in Nascar but Non-wingers seem to be very sucessful.

1) Is it because the non-wing drivers are so versatile running Sprints, Midgets, Champ Cars, Dirt and Asphalt ??
2) Is it because the winged guys' are so locked down they can't find the edge on asphalt ??
3) Is it because the non-wingers are always on the edge and not locked down with the wing ???
4) Or am I way off base and its' none of the above.

I wondered what some of the USAC fans thought. Don't want an argument just some thoughts. And don't tell me the WoO are content running WoO. Someone posted on the other board Dave Blaney finished 31st and made over 3 million dollars.....:checkered:

Re: Non-Wingers To The Top
 

Pine,
I'll ramble here and not make much sense but it seems like these hot driving 16-20 year olds are all in non-wing cars and are able to grab headlines a lot quicker and get noticed there a lot sooner. What 18 yr. old kid has come in and made big headlines with the WoO's lately?The Outlaw guys are a much more mature group age wise as well. Schatz is young at 30 in that group. Campbell and Henderson are young and have some good runs but they don't win and get headlines like Stenhouse, Ballou and other young guys do in non-wing. Here's another bad idea. Maybe with the non-wing races being so concentrated in the midwest that a driver has a chance to really get looked over by a car owner as he can watch him race A LOT in a summer's time without going around the whole country to do so. Plus, like you said, drivers' can show off their diversity with the different cars and surfaces that they get to drive. That has to be to the drivers' advantage I would think. These are simple thoughts from a simple mind and I am prepared to get blown out of the water by someone more knowledgeable than myself. Have a great 2008, Pine, and I'll let you offer me a drink at Lawrenceburg in July. Tom
Tom

Re: Non-Wingers To The Top
 

Interesting question. Maybee it has to do with so few WOO Drivers trying to break in. I know Sammy(he who must not be named) and Kraig Kinser ran some truck races without much success, but the teams they ran for have not had alot of success period. I dont think Steve Kinser got a fair chance IMO and it was hard to go from King to field filler and wait for you chance with a better team.(he did quit well in his only attempt at the indy 500 with limitead success in IROC). I think at this point you would have to say that Dave Blaney has ben very successful. In the end I think a racer is a racer, if you give them good equitment and its somthing they want it bad enough they would find away. It could also be that with the Woo they make too much money and are comfertable where they are and dont feal that need to move up. Probiby has more to do with how easy Ken Sharder and then Jeff Gordon made the transition for nascar teams to look for talent in usac. I wonder if Jeff Gordon had been horrible if guys like Kenny Irwin or Ryan Newman would have ever got their chance.



Hope you all have a safe and Happy Newyears

Re: Non-Wingers To The Top
 

IMO a great driver is a great driver no matter what he straps into. Kinsers been as successful non winged as winged as have others, Kerr, Huntley, Briscoe, Hewitt

I believe what Dispain said about learning to find the edge and race against each other is the key. Diversity has a lot to do with it but with everything, When you get to the top level the equiptment and team you have around you is often a bigger factor than your driving abilites.

A reverse example is Bill Elliot and Bobby Lebonte and a few others like Schrader who can come down a notch and be competitive.

I know some pure stockers and Mod drivers who'd probably be damn good in a sprinter, OR THE NEXT LEVEL. Bland and others kinda prove this. I even worked on a pure stock team where theres no doubt in my mind he'd of been successful in anything he drove. He could just feel and know how to hook up and keep speed where most others lost it.

Chuck, who thought Gordon's first Brickyard qualifications summed it up perfectly, Totally sideways out of four and still set quick time. 95 percent of anyone exiting that corner sideways eats a wall.

Re: Non-Wingers To The Top
 

Well, back in the days,Steve Kinser got a shot in Nascar. We were told at the (Gold Cup) that was where the news was let out, that it was at least a 4 or 5 year deal. Well, it did not end up that way.:angry-smiley-007:

Re: Non-Wingers To The Top
 

I think both of the above, I was talking with a nascar driver at the rumble and he said to be fast in the taxi's, you have to be literally on the edge of spinning out. BUT you have to control it too.
Personally, never drove one- never will. Who really knows?:Steer

Re: Non-Wingers To The Top
 

I think the ultra-stiff chassis that NASCAR now runs, goes hand-in-hand with a non wing car...you gotta drive it by what your butt is telling you.
There is no doubt that a good driver, regardless of what class he runs presently, could "make the cut". But getting that chance to prove it, is the tough part!

Re: Non-Wingers To The Top
 

IMO, it's all about car control.

The nonwing cars are always loose, the driver constantly has to rely on seat of the pants feel and ultra quick reactions with steering input.

Re: Non-Wingers To The Top
 

Maybe they are content at being racers ......... and not HO-ing for the NASCAR establishment ?

Re: Non-Wingers To The Top
 

Hawker is right It is all about car control. The problem lies with how NASCAR team owners offer chances to new drivers. I'm not faulting them, just the process. USAC guys get chances because they have asphalt experience. Team owners figure (correctly) that if they can control an 800 hp sprint car on pavement they can control a heavy NASCAR machine. Gordon, Stewart, Irwin, Kahne, etc. have all proven this. WoO drivers have every bit as much ability but they have little or no pavement experience. That is what hurt Steve Kinser the most when he got his screwing from Kenny Bernstein after No. Wilkesboro in April of '95. No one is a better driver than Kinser yet, when he didn't produce results after just 7 attempts, he was gone. If you look at all the young guys in development deals they all have one thing in common, no matter what series they came from. Pavement experience. With the WoO schedule as busy as it is there is no way that any driver in that series is going to get any significant amount of pavement experience so they are then "locked in" to remain with WoO. Until that changes what you see now is the way it will be for a very long time.

Re: Non-Wingers To The Top
 

Personally, I believe it has more to do with where the weight differences are on the 2 sprinter styles.

In general, non-wingers drive them off the right rear, and with the forces torquing the weight over to the right while at speed in the turns (i.e. about to bicycle at any moment).

Wingers have those barn doors on top driving most of the corner traction onto the left rear and pushing the chassis weight to the left (sometimes even carrying the right front while still in the turn).

Re: Non-Wingers To The Top
 

I think it has more to do with the fact that USAC has pavement events and that looks more attractive to lucrative racing teams.

Re: Non-Wingers To The Top
 

Mike Bliss, was an pavement driver, not very good on the dirt. He did good in the Crown cars.:applaud: There's not very many or (no nonwing sprints) up in the Northwest. Midgets only race on the pavement. They do come down and race on dirt with BCRA.:pissonwings:

Re: Non-Wingers To The Top
 

Carl Edwards ran Silver Crown and IMCA type modifieds...

Re: Non-Wingers To The Top
 

And he did so on the advice of Kenny Schrader. Carl was having a hard time adapting to tracks larger than the stockers he'd previously run, and Kenny suggested he "go get himself some dirt track experience".

Re: Non-Wingers To The Top
 

Plain and simple. Nascar owners/sponsors are looking for a good driver who looks better in front of a camera. Go to most non-wing races and there is a plethora of teenagers who could spend 3-5 years learning cabs and still be in the early 20`s.
If you could garauntee multiple wins but were bald,overwieght with green teeth you could prolly not even buy a pitpass at a nascrap event.Car control has nothing to do with it.
I stood next to Jeff Gordon at Salem in the very early 90`s. He was talking about the speech class he had been to that afternoon. His stepdad was/is a very smart man.

Re: Non-Wingers To The Top
 

What motor said.:thumb:

Re: Non-Wingers To The Top
 

That is why Jeff Gordon "made it" and Eric Gordon didn't. They both had similar success coming up. Jeff seemed to fit the "Days of Thunder" profile a little better.

Re: Non-Wingers To The Top
 

I think it is easier to see talent early in a non-wing car or midget. A winged car is easier to be fast in. So everybody is pretty fast. But a winged car seems more subtle in tire usage, setup and driver. All that just makes it harder to stick out in a crowd of winged cars. Take Schatz for example. He has always been fast-I think in 1996? he won 29 360 races and qualified for numerous WoO A features. But until he learned to drive a car which was out of his comfort zone (tighter) he never could finish races strong. He would be good on his comfort zone tracks and struggle elsewhere. Now he drives a car with less stagger and out smarts a lot of guys. He sets up for the end of races. As far as young talent is concerned Brad Sweet proved this year he can be fast in any form of open wheel car. It is too bad it is such a parade to get in line for NASCAR. I think some of the younger guys like Brad Sweet and Darren Hagen could be huge stars in the IRL if given the opportunity. Just as a side note, if you are not from Ind or NC it is hard to get appropriately noticed.