Rumble dates?
 

Does anyone know the dates for the Rumble at Fort Wayne, and are there any other sites again this year? Thanks in advance for any info.

Re: Rumble dates?
 

rumbleseries.com says 26th & 27th. It doesn't show anything about any other indoor rumble shows.

Fort Wayne is the only events scheduled this indoor season.
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Re: Rumble dates?
 

I see the new rules package that has been administered. Rumor has it that the Munchkins might not run at all since meeting the minimum weight requirement may be near impossible.

I wonder what this means for Tony Stewart showing up. I am sure he has been far too busy to notice this change, but I would assume Bobby Barth would have some idea.

Re: Rumble dates?
 

Barhorst ain't going to bite the hand that feeds him. Stewart is a huge draw for that show and if there is no Stewart the crowds will be down and in this economy, Barhorst is going to need everything he can to get a packed house.

Re: Rumble dates?
 

I have 25 lbs of lead they can use. I'll even mount it on the car for them.

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Uh.... Where did you read these new rules at? The VW's including the Munchkin were allowed 850 pounds last year. I'm hearing that the new rules for them will be 875. That's 25 pounds more which equals about 3 1/2 to 4 gallons of fuel added to a potential 27 or 31 gallon fuel tank. Most teams run 12 or so gallons for a feature. That leaves a lot of room in the tank for 3 1/2 to 4 gallons. I think it's far fetched to think that a team can't put 3 1/2 more gallons in a fuel tank. Now if the Munchkin teams were running with a full fuel tank last year which I seriously doubt, they'll have to bolt on weight which is a common practice for a lot of midget teams regardless of whether it's an indoor or outdoor race.

Re: Rumble dates?
 

The rules are never official until the entries are released. I am working on finishing and releasing them this weekend.
They will be announced on a thread here.

We love the Munchkin..and have been proud to have them run with us over the past 11 years.

I will say this...I love the traditional conventional midgets also..

Steps are being taken to to enhance the competition between all the cars. Rules have been changed RARELY over the years in the Rumble Series. Every decade or so..the time comes for adjustment.

Best,
Tony Barhorst
rumbleseries.com

Re: Rumble dates?
 

Bring back thunder in the dome! Thunder in the stadium!

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To expand indoor racing...or outdoor midget racing...pavement, etc...the key is to have rules that MAXIMIZE everyones ability to compete. That's what I will try to do with these new rules.

Another key to expanding racing for ALL is...Please don't rely on rumor for your information.
That inhibits expansion, not only for me, but anyone.

Remember when UMARA sanctioned the Rumble In The RCA Dome?

I also want to point out that our early schedule is on the front page of www.rumbleseries.com. December 27 is a Sunday matinee show. Fans will be able to see a fast paced two days of racing, with time to get home Sunday.

Best,
Tony Barhorst
rumbleseries.com

Re: Rumble dates?
 

U will NEVER see this. I rally hate to burst peoples bubbles, but it cost to much to move the football field. Its not like it used to be where they would just roll up the field and move it. All they did last year for the Motocross and monster truck show was, put down plastic, then cover that with ply wood, then put dirt on top. They never took up the football field. Now some will say, dirt race.....cool. The cleaning bill would be astronomical to clean the place. Hate to say it but indoor racing is not going to happen any time soon at the stadium.

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:15: Again, I will nominate U.S. Cellular Coliseum in Bloomington, IL. It's centrally located, has a good seating area and there would be a good fan base to attract.

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I'd like to see that happen, DWB.

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Don,

Here's where I heard the 900# rule,

3. Regarding conventional in line midgets: Gaerte Chevy, Gaerte Ford, Esslinger Kenyon, Focus etc. This does not include cars with VW engines. The weight rule is 875 pounds. (This does not include cars with VW engines , which must weigh 900 #)


Now, The Munchkin weighs around 800# with NO weight added. We all know the weight is added to the leftside nerf bar mounted like a plate on the lower most area. Now this year the rules read as follows...

1. No steel, iron, lead or any heavy metal plates of any kind within the left or right side nerf bars including horizontal and vertical plates...ect...

So with all this said NEW rule #7 reads,

7. All bolt on weight must be inside the car ( frame rails ). The bolt on weight will only allowed from the front of the engine block to the rear of the seat, within the confines of the outer frame rails.

In order for the Munchkin to be legal they will have to mount nearly 100 pounds of weight in a space approx. 12" wide by 30" or so long. I will be very suprised if this will be attainable. Don't get me wrong, I agree things need to be kept on a level field. I just love attending this event each winter with such a huge crowd on hand.

Re: Rumble dates?
 

1. I think it would be prudent and respectful if people would not post speculation and rumor on IOW without doing the proper research. Speculation about who will be there and who won't is premature until the rules and entry list are publicly published. Please have some respect for the promoters.

2. The Rumbles Series last winter operated with the rule that a VW midget must weigh at least 850 lbs. That rule with various sanctioning bodies has been around for quite a while, nothing new here, so if people are presenting or building cars that don't meet that weight requirement, the owners of those cars have a major problem, not the promoter or the sanctioning body. If they have to bolt on 75-100 lbs, that's the owner's problem, end of discussion. So if they were there last year, and I assume they were, and at least 850 lbs, then all they need to do is add a little weight or about 4 gallons of fuel and they are legal. So I'm totally puzzled why this is even a remotely valid topic on IOW. If the rule says 850, then bring a car that weighs 850. If it says 875, then bring a car that weighs that. Again I'm trying to figure out where you're going with this. It's rediculous to even bring this weight issue up.

3. The Rumble Series is being based off of the Wolverine Rule Book with a few variations, so I'm told and have read. So... bring a car to Fort Wayne that matches the rules. Real simple to understand. I think it's safe to say that hanging every piece of junk out on the left side of a midget beyond 8 inches is history. It's NEVER been legal anywhere to do that and the Wolverine rule book, and correct me if I'm wrong, clearly states nothing beyond 8 inches from the frame. End of discussion.

4. Now... Let the promoter do his thing and stop posting all kinds of speculation on here. The promoter has clearly stated on this message board that the rules need a tune up and that is what is going to happen. Again, give the promoter some room to let everything play out so that we all can enjoy some even indoor racing competition.

Re: Rumble dates?
 

Don,

Once again refer to my number 3. above as quoted in an early posting from Midget Madness authored by the promoter of the Rumble Series. I am not sure which part of the current weight rule you are not understanding. Until the entry comes out, this would be the weight rule any new cars would have to be built according to.

And to refute your #1 above, sometimes you need to take the "can't beat 'em join 'em" approach. I spoke with a Munchkin owner recently and he stated that none of the current Munchkin owners are pleased with the rule changes, with exception to Mr. Stewart who no one has spoken too.

Once again, I could care less about the rule changes, but I do enjoy racing in front of the huge crowds typically on hand for this event.

Re: Rumble dates?
 

1. Let the promoter publish the rules.

2. The car owners present their cars according to the rules (nothing new here).

3. Let the midget races take place.

4. THEN let your opinions be known.

5. If some rules need to be adjusted after the races take place, I'm sure it will happen.

This is how it happens across the nation every week, again nothing new here. The promoter has an investment in his series. Let him do his job and see how it plays out.

Re: Rumble dates?
 

1. He did Aug. 6th 2009

2. Using the updated rules posted Aug. 6th 2009 or the ones that will be presented eventually?

3. They will with or without the Munchkins

4. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, ones of which will be expressed sooner or later.

5. Great, I am all for level playing fields, but don't wait until the last few weeks to make the "final edition" of the rules made public.

I agree, Mr. Barhorst and/or you Mr. Moore have a large investment is this deal and the last thing you want to do in this economy is to change things that deter competitors from supporting your events. If you feel that more conventional midgets will show up with the loss of Munchkin support than more power to you, but don't think for one minute that the majority of the crowd wearing their Office Depot #14 fan wear are going to care unless Smoke is there.

Re: Rumble dates?
 

Jimmy, you are correct in regard to my posting on August 6. This is an ongoing process, and I have still been doing my research on the ramifications of the changes listed in that post. I reserve the right to tweak them until the entry is official...once they are out...then they will be followed to the final detail...I have added staffing for the tech at the event.

This has nothing to do with this thread, but during the last two or three weeks I have been thinking it all over...the location of the added weight on VW's etc.

I just want to point out to you that it is too early to tell if Rich Corson, Johnny Heydenreich...or Tony Stewart will enter. It is too early to tell...This being October 17, it is time to get the entries out...you will see them by Monday.

The question I have is...Will Jim Anderson enter?

Also...Congratulations on a great event at Joliet....That was pretty cool speaking of great crowds.

Thanks,
Tony Barhorst
rumbleseries.com

Re: Rumble dates?
 

:6: DAMN good indoor racer. Well a DAMN good racer all around (irregardless of the crap some want to throw at him). When someone like Rich gets the full respect of Tony Stewart as a competitor on and of the track and also away from the racing scene, that speaks volumes about Rich's character and his stature as an entrant in this event and as a human being in general. :9:

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While I am never opposed to competing anywhere there is a race (including Kokomo today...if I could find anyone to go down with me), I will post that the main "crew"/sponsor I have had for the last couple indoor events seems to have lost interest with the obvious advantage of the munchkins. I am of the opinion I need to do the best I can on the track and have our car set-up as good as can be before we worry about any of the competition, but I may be able to entice some interest in the 2009 event if there was an effort to level the playing field. Either way, the only place I will want to be the day after Christmas this year is Ft. Wayne; most especially driving...however reality may eventually set in and I might have to get back to real life (not against the event...personal stuff...income source, etc.)...

Re: Rumble dates?
 

Tony,

I am sure you have done alot of thinking concerning these rule changes and I commend you for bringing the playing field back to level. I am also sure you have had some sleepless nights wondering what will happen to your crowd if by chance Stewart doesn't run. Can the races be as exicting without him? Absolutely. Will there be a full field of midgets? Absolutely. Can Rich Corson win this indoor deal in a pedal car? Absolutely!!

Will Jim Anderson be there? That's the plan as of now. How can I let Don Moore have all the fun with his inline. I'd feel honored if Don got on here afterwards and complained about me.

And, Thank You. The Joliet event was great, but getting people into those stands was easier than getting the competitors to show up.

Re: Rumble dates?
 

Re: Rumble dates?
 

Just a couple comments here based on past Fort Wayne experience. I am not arguing the points here. I am taking it in stride, and enjoy the chat back and forth. Lots can be learned from this website. Myself and others on the site sometimes do get frustrated with rumor and premature speculation..I am pointing out some facts here.

During all the years that Tony Stewart has competed with us...The first time in 1999 was a big suprise. Other years I talked to him in advance about promoting his appearance...and we did that many times. A few years ago he ran the race without announcement...and the crowd did not know he was there until he popped out of his car in victory. He was listed as Mikey Fedorcak Jr. from Gnawbone, Indiana. His camp never let it out in public in advance, so you can't really tell by his team members comments.

This will be a year that we are not sure what Tony will do. We won't really know until racedays this year.

Jason, I appreciate all your efforts to come to Ft. Wayne. I have to point out that there are two full midget events, with two payouts and two sets of tow money that would be $120 if you missed both.

I also watched the 2007 event last night looking for shots for my TV spot. I run over 2,000 thirty second spots in the Fort Wayne region every year.

The Friday show that year was wild all the way through. Billy Wease won over Dave Darland in a last lap turn 4 pass. Kenyon cars made the field both days, with guys like Brandon Knupp ( Nascar Trucks)...and Jacob Wiilson (USAC) running very well. They put on quite a show. You can't say you would never make the field.

Best,
Tony Barhorst
rumbleseries.com

Re: Rumble dates?
 

Tony has already added his weight :2:. one thing I noticed last season, to win one of these races, you have to get up on the wheel and drive everysingle lap like you are qualifying. If a guy is holding you up, u have to go, not ride until they make a mistake. Todays drivers have a big problem with this. they are to used to riding around until somebody makes a mistake or starting up front and knowing they have the race won if they don't make to many mistakes.

Re: Rumble dates?
 

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Here's what it cost me the last two times I came to Ft Wayne

$450 Two hotel rooms for 3 days
$200 Tow gas
$120 Entry fee
$275 For 5 two day pit passes
$550 for specialty indoor tires
$100 Alcohol (for the car)
$30 Tolls
$??? Food
$1725!!!!

There is no way $60 a night will even come close to help offset the above costs.


Jason


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Re: Rumble dates?
 

Jason,

I am not saying it's great..

I know it doesn't cover very much, but lets compare it with other event tow money. Just for my information, in regard to midgets..what are other events paying tow money wise?

I understand team costs and have been payout out more through the field the last several years. I want to make it even better. Last year I added the points fund, but that didn't bring more cars to Columbus and Toledo really.

This year teams can get by with one night hotel if they wish. We have also had teams stay in campers if they have the heat.

You should be able to use your tires again...I have implemented a one RR tire rule to address tire costs.

I will keep working on it.

Thanks,
Tony Barhorst
Rumbleseries.com

Re: Rumble dates?
 

maybe its the driver who does not have a chance!!!!!!!!!!!!! Any body can make it if there smooth and smart! And know how to set it up!

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Thanks for your efforts Tony. Like the RR rule and have no issue with other changes you have made.

As far as "tow money", those of use from this area may be spoiled from BMARA. Makes it hard to get excited about towing more than a couple hours for $50 (or less in some cases). Looks like others have hard time driving up for that now though? Anyway, understand you have to make money or break even too. However, I'm a big fan of Don Moore's idea the "performers" should get a break on pit passes and entry fees. Obviously, you would HAVE to still charge for the other divisions though... Not trying to start anything, it just all adds up though...as I am sure; so does rent, insurance, crew, etc...

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What does BMARA or their promoters pay for tow money?

:35:

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I don't know if Badger actually pays "tow money". Everyone gets paid to race with Badger. The drivers are there. Whether they make it to the feature or just a heat race. The are a part of the complete show and they get paid.

I think Ft Wayne is a little harsh. Pays $350 for 14th and the next place is $60.

Jason



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Re: Rumble dates?
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by racinjason
evening the field out seems to be a big problem everywhere. Glad to see someone is actually trying to correct that. I had a blast racing in ft wayne. I know my car doesn't have what it takes to make the feature. So i have no choice but to stay home. That $60 tow money hardly gets me out of wisconsin let alone all the way there and back.


Jason







Maybe it's not the driver!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe you should go (see below)



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Re: Rumble dates?
 

I have never seen a Badger payout...I am interested, maybe someone can post a full payout.

Thanks,





:35:

Again, Super throwing rocks at the players on the field. Jason opens the books to show what it has cost HIM to come down and support the show, and gets crap for it. Is this the way it is here? Somebody please explain this to me. PM me if necessary. I don't get it. Maybe I need it in small words (or pictures).

Jason, thanks for coming down and racing in Fort Wayne. My kids appreciate it. My parents appreciate it. My neighbors appreciate it. Me, I LOVE IT!!!

If things work out for you to bring the car this year, great! If not, it still beats a rain out!
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Re: Rumble dates?
 

Thanks short track scott. I appreciate the support. I wasn't bashing Mr. Barhorst for the way he runs his event. Nor was it his fault for how I or my car performed. I was just mentioning why it's hard for someone out of state with not the best equipment to make it.

I had a blast racing at Ft. Wayne. It's something I will never forget.

I put more into it than most. Look back a couple years in the stands. There were a ton of kids with chekered flags. Where did they come from? They don't sell them there? They came from ME! I bought them for the kids. I even sat in the stands with the kids between my races. So maybe Im not the best driver. Maybe I haven't made the feature there. That isn't what it is all about to me. There may be a kid out there that will never forget that race!!! That's what it is about to me. Sorry I can't please everyone.


Jason


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Jason,
As one budget racer to another, I hope you find a way to get to Fort Wayne again. And if you do, let me know and I'll gladly give you some pit support. Don't pay attention to the guys like Duke. Just do the best you can with the stuff you've got and have fun.

Tom Paterson

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Jason,

I just want you to know that I appreciate you listing the expenses..I did not take you the wrong way..I am using this as a way to find out what others may be paying, and taking a hard look at it. Just using this for research...and it's kind of fun to mull over here.

I know you are a dirt track diver for the most part..That can make it tougher to make the chassis changes...I am not being defensive...I just wanted to point out that we do have two full payouts...

It is good to hear from you...don't let Duke's comment bother you. He is just stirring the pot...I realize it is tough to come out of Wisconsin...I want to tell you my rule changes are meant to give conventional midgets a break.

The VW's have had a break ( and still do) throughout the years...It is time the conventional in line midget had a break.

I hear what you are saying on the cost....someone send me a complete Badger payout..

Best,
Tony Barhorst
rumbleseries.com

:35:

Re: Rumble dates?
 

Some folks in this thread are too sensitive.

Duke has a valid point. If you have a midget, you have a chance.

Racing indoors, in several ways, levels the playing field on it's own....

Indoors racing takes the big HP engines, new chassis, ultra light weight parts, etc, out of play.

Older cars with VWs in them, have just as good of a chance at winning as anything else. Kenyon midgets even make the show......

You've got to have the car set up right, have some driving talent, and not be afraid to 'assist somebody out of the way' if need be.