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Sprint Car Drivers / Not Owners...
As many of you know I am new to the world of sprint cars. I was raised in a drag racing family and know the work that goes into putting any machine on the track for a night of fun.
I have what I would call a simple question and I am sure this varies from owner to owner but what does the driver typically take home from the purse? For instance Sunday night Weir won the feature at TSS and took home $3000 but driving the 1G or G1 for Scott Gorby (I think that was his name) Since the purses are fairly small compared to several other types of racing (WoO for instance) how do these drivers survive? I am only talking about drivers who drive strictly for someone else and not their own stuff. Like I said most people can only speculate but many of you have been around longer than me. I do not really want specifics on any driver as this is their business and that is not why I am asking. It just seems to me with the small purses and the number of drivers scrambling to take home the $$$ this could be very tough for some of them. Do most of these guys get a flat fee before the race or get a share of the purse? |
Re: Sprint Car Drivers / Not Owners...
It's usually based on a percentage of the nights winnings. I'd say normally along the lines of 60% to the owner and 40% driver or 70/30. I've doubt you would find any situations where the driver is paid a flat fee before the nights racing.
You will be hard pressed to find anyone running strictly local shows that is making their living driving a sprintcar although there are probably some out there. Most have a full or part-time job with race winnings being used for additional racing expenses such as gas to the track or pit passes etc.. |
Re: Sprint Car Drivers / Not Owners...
Some of the teams that I' ve worked for have paid as much as 50% of the purse to the driver if he won a race, but the norm for the various teams has been a 60/40 split, with the driver getting 40% of what the car made.
So if the car finished near the back and made $200, the driver got $80....... |
Re: Sprint Car Drivers / Not Owners...
Jason, some drivers get 40% and some 30% depends on who you are driving for. I think when I drove for Hoffmans it was 40% and 50% to win. But I would say most drivers are driving for nothing. I know when I drove for my dad all of the purse money usually went back into the car. It really just depends on the situation. I can only think of a few drivers that are making a living driving a non wing sprint car. I would say Levi Jones, Tracy Hines, and Brad Sweet probably do this full time without another job. I have heard that Clauson is still making his income through his contract with Gannasi, Tim or Bryan would have to clarify that. I hear Brady Shorts dad pays him to drive and to take care of the car so he makes a living just racing. But I know Stanbrough has a fab shop to survive. If you look at the purse dollars compared to their percentage there is really no way they can make a decent living driving non wing sprint cars without some other kind of income. This has bothered me for years I would drive for free and did basically my whole career but what about the guy that wanted to do it full time. You can't do it and support a family the numbers just are not there. The only way is to go wing racing. I did some research and here are some of the results.
USAC 43 races 10 are pavement Terre Haute purse:1. $5,000 2.$2,500 3.$1,500 4. $1,100 5. $850 6. $800 7. $700 8. $675 9. $650 10. $625 11. $600 12. $575 13. $550 14. $525 15. $500 16. $475 17. $450 18. $425 19. $400 20.$400 21. $400 22. $400 I am going to give examples if you won every show, averaged a 5th place, and 10th place at 40% 1st: 215,000.00 40%= 86,000.00 5th: 36,550.00 40%= 14,620.00 10th: 26,875.00 40%=10,750.00 What if the driver only ran dirt? WOO 75 races: Tri State speedway purse: Steve Kinser Kinser Racing #11 150 10000.00 2 Joey Saldana Kasey Kahne Racing with Mike Curb 9 146 5500.00 3 Jason Sides Sides Motorsports 144 3200.00 4 Kerry Madsen VerMeer 55 142 2800.00 5 Sammy Swindell Tom Rolfe Racing 140 2500.00 6 Danny Lasoski Parsons Motorsports 138 2300.00 7 Danny Smith Danny Smith 136 2200.00 8 Craig Dollansky Kasey Kahne Racing with Mike Curb 19 134 2100.00 9 Tony Bruce, Jr. Bruce Racing 132 2050.00 10 Daron Clayton Clayton Racing 92 130 2000.00 11 Kraig Kinser Tony Stewart Motorsports 20 128 1500.00 12 Jac Haudenschild Carnahan Motorsports 126 1200.00 13 Brooke Tatnell Titan Racing USA 124 1100.00 14 Jason Meyers Elite Racing Team 122 1050.00 15 Tim Kaeding Roth Motorsports 120 1000.00 16 Lucas Wolfe Allebach 118 900.00 17 Paul May May 116 800.00 18 Tommy Worley, Jr. Worley 114 800.00 19 Terry McCarl Big Game Motorsports 112 800.00 20 Joey Moughan Davis Racing 110 800.00 21 Randy Hannagan Terry Hannagan Racing 108 800.00 22 Donny Schatz Tony Stewart Motorsports 15 106 800.00 23 Sam Hafertepe Jr. Plumbfast Racing 15H 104 800.00 24 Brian Ellenberger Brian Ellenberger Racing Inc. 102 800.00 1st: 750,000.00 40%= 300,000.00 5th: 187,500.00 40%= 75,000.00 10th: 150,000.00 40%= 60,000.00 The WOO also gives there teams show up money on top plus pit pass help. All stars 44 races I couldn't find the purse but pretty sure on my figures if anyone finds out different please correct. 1st:5,000.00 5th:2,000.00 10th:1,000.00 1st: 220,000.00 40%= 88,000.00 5th: 88,000.00 40% 35,200.00 10th: 44,000.00 40% 17,600.00 All Stars also offer show up and pit help to there top teams. Local using Lawrenceburg because they post their full purse using 50 local races: Sprint Cars Feature 1. $1,500 2 .$800 3. $600 4 .$400 5. $350 6. $300 7. $275 8. $250 9. $225 10. $225 11. $225 12. $225 13. $225 14. $225 15. $225 16. $225 17. $225 18. $225 19. $225 20. $225 1st: 75,000.00 40%= 30,000.00 5th: 17,500.00 40%= 7,000.00 10th:11,250.00 40% 4,500.00 THE REASON I POSTED THIS IS TO MAKE A POINT TO ALL OF YOU YOUNG DRIVERS OUT THERE THINKING YOUR GOING TO MAKE A CAREER OUT OF SPRINT CAR RACING. EVEN IF YOU WIN EVERY RACE AFTER YOU PAY FOR YOUR FUEL TO GET THERE, YOUR PIT PASS AND MAYBE A HOTEL THERE IS NO WAY TO MAKE A DECENT LIVING DOING THIS. SO GET YOUR EDUCATION DO NOT PUT ALL OF YOUR EGGS IN THIS RACING BASKET. YOU CAN DO BOTH LOOK AT RYAN NEWMAN PURDUE GRAD AND IN NASCAR. I DROPPED OUT OF COLLEGE THINKING I WAS GOING TO BE A FULL TIME RACE CAR DRIVER AND IT DIDNT WORK OUT. I REGRET MY DECISION NOT TO FINISH COLLEGE. I COULD HAVE STILL RACED AND GOT MY EDUCATION. NOW OUR BUSINESS IS IN TROUBLE AND WHILE I HAVE BEEN LOOKING AT JOBS AVAILABLE EVERYONE OF THEM REQUIRES A COLLEGE DEGREE. PLEASE LISTEN TO MY WORDS STUDY HARD AND RACE HARD. IF IT IS MEANT TO BE YOU WILL STILL MAKE IT BUT IF IT DOESN'T YOU WILL STILL HAVE SOMETHING TO FALL BACK ON. I JUST HAD THIS SAME CONVERSTATION WITH KENNY NIFLIS'S FATHER A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO, HE SAID KENNY WANTED TO RACE SPRINT CARS FULL TIME AND I JUST EXPLAINED ALL OF THESE SAME POINTS TO HIS FATHER. HOPEFULLY ONE DAY IT WILL CHANGE AND SPRINT CAR DRIVERS CAN MAKE A LIVING DOING WHAT THEY LOVE TO DO BUT IN CASE THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN BE PREPARED.:6: |
Re: Sprint Car Drivers / Not Owners...
Kevin's post should be made a sticky on the front page!! I didnt finish my college education when I was younger because I felt it got in the way of racing and having fun. I kid you not when I say I wish I could go back and do that stretch of my life over!!
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Re: Sprint Car Drivers / Not Owners...
Pit passes and transponder fees come out and the rest goes to Josh for the race car as he owns the business. Josh is in school to be a school teacher, works a full time job and two part time jobs to race. Sarah, Paul and I all contribute to the race car and like so many others the car is held together with duct tape and zip ties.
We are hopeing for a race cars for cash from Washington this winter. :15: Jerry #66j |
Re: Sprint Car Drivers / Not Owners...
Kevin Briscoe's comment hit the nail on the head. Don't think you are going to make a good living driving sprint cars. The only ones that have done it for years are Kinser, Haud, etc., driving the World of Outlaw trail. Those rides are hard to come by. I could have went to college right out of high school but just wanted to race too. I went back and recently got my degree in Business Administration from Indiana Wesleyan. I am starting my Bachelors program in October. Racing can take you some where if you are talented, lucky, and have alot of money behind you. Even then there are still no guarantees.
For all adults who think its too late to go back, don't!! Many people in my class were in there 40s and 50s. IWU offers an adult leap program. You are considered a full time student but go to class one night a week for 4 hours. You have several group projects and a fair amount of homework. |
Re: Sprint Car Drivers / Not Owners...
Originally Posted by riskybrisky5: Kevin is also correct in the percentage we pay our drivers is 50% for wins and 40% for anything else. Rob Hoffman |
Re: Sprint Car Drivers / Not Owners...
All,
Thanks for the insight! I appreciate the post Kevin as that puts a lot of stuff in perspective. I have no intention on driving a car anytime soon but was just wondering how in the world some of these drivers can do this on a weekly basis. I know there are a few "Golden Children" as I like to call them who have no worries when it comes to the sport. Thanks again! JW |
Re: Sprint Car Drivers / Not Owners...
Great Post Kevin! Thanks for doing all that math, I've wondered the same thing about how these guy's do it. Now I have a better idea and I'm happy :) that someone told us all how it really is!
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Re: Sprint Car Drivers / Not Owners...
I called Kevin when I first saw this post and told him this would be a perfect opportunity for him to share some of the things we had talked about just a few days before. What I was telling him was that Kenny was one of the few young drivers that did not have the ultimate goal of racing NASCAR. He just wants to be a sprint car driver, and that an ultimate goal for him would just to find a team to put him in their car, not to make a living at it, just to have the chance to have the equipment to do it right.
Unfortunately with the costs involved verses the payout, you can't really blame the car owners for doing what they do and putting the people in their cars that they do. It's hard to justify putting say... Dave Darland in their car and paying him whatever percentage of the winnings, rather than putting in another driver who can pay enough that they'll make money win lose or crash. There are still some owners putting drivers in their cars based on talent instead of money brought to the table, but they are few and far between, and in danger of extinction simply because the purses are such that it's not possible to make enough to even cover expenses, and take care of the equipment. They have to really be in love with the sport and have the desire to spend their own money to see their car race. By the way, I don't begrudge anyone for having the money to buy a ride because if I had it I would do the same thing. I for one did not realize how much better the winged racing pays and thought maybe others would be interested in what Kevin was telling me about that. He knows what he's talking about and has a lot of passion about the survival of the sport and the racers. We all need to listen to what he is saying. Trent Niflis |
Re: Sprint Car Drivers / Not Owners...
Excellent post...especially Kevin's answer. It brings questions to my mind...why does wing racing pay so much more? Where is the money coming from? Sponsors? More fans paying higher admission fees?
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Re: Sprint Car Drivers / Not Owners...
Originally Posted by Brolzy: When the fans don't get exposed to what they're missing, things stay as they are. There is still a feeling, also, that winged cars are safer. I don't know if the stats for the last 10 years or so will uphold that theory, but it's still felt that it's safer to race with a wing, so it's difficult to persuade folks to the contrary, even when the racing is better. Tim Simmons |
Re: Sprint Car Drivers / Not Owners...
Kevin
Good answer. Just wondering, is the cost difference in running a wing car verses a non-wing car, in direct correlation to the purse structures? Thanks in advance.............. PS...........Rembering you running the Stannard car years ago..............Yes I go back a few years also......... |
Re: Sprint Car Drivers / Not Owners...
Originally Posted by Brolzy: But IMO, Indiana is a special case, and some of the tracks pay a smaller purse because they can do so and still draw a reaonable(20-25) amount of cars to put on a decent show. There are a lot of n/w tracks in Indiana, and it can serve to dilute the product a bit...but, as I said, that's just my opinion.... |
Re: Sprint Car Drivers / Not Owners...
@Rp1racing: It does cost more money to run a wing car. I posted this to help motivate young drivers to realize that it is tough to make a living driving a sprint car. If you want to make a living driving a sprint car you pretty well better go run the wings as a driver. As a car owner you are going to lose your rear end if you run wing or non winged without sponsorship help. It cost a lot of money to run a car either way. The car owners are always going to be the big losers. But this post was asking about drivers making a living and I was just trying to show it is just about impossible unless you have a job on the side.
As far as why wings pay more is the car owners and drivers won't show up for less so the promoters and sanctioning bodies have to pay it. The reason we don't get it is because we still show up lol. Car counts are not an issue and talent at the track is not an issue so until the racers quit showing up it will never change, just the facts. I do not begrudge any promoter or sanctioning body for making as much money as they can, that is what they are in business for. I don't know if this is true or not because I have not researched it but just word of mouth. So if anyone knows the facts please correct me. But Guy Webb who own's the All Stars told me at Paragon that the purse for the 10,000 to win hoosier fall classic at Lawrenceburg was almost double the MSCS 10,000 to win show there. Which means 2nd on back really pays a lot more. I do not know what USAC'S 10,000 purse is but I imagine it is in the middle of the two. But what I would like is someone who is not affiliated with the track or sanctioning bodies that goes to both events give an estimate which event has a bigger crowd. I know the non wing events will have more cars. So if the fan counts are the same well then we all know the answer. But if the crowd is smaller for the non wing then we know why our purses are smaller. I know that I will probably get bashed but hey the truth is the truth. Like I said the reason there is a difference is they don't have to pay us more. Do you really think they would still be having wing shows if the promoters were all losing money? All they have to do is give us a little and it would make a huge difference. I have a lot of friends that race all over and tell me that our crowds and car counts are as strong as you can get right here in Indiana but we have the lowest purses. ---------- Post added at 06:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:52 PM ---------- @ sprinter25 local wing shows in Ohio I think are min. 2,500 to win 300 to start. Penn. Knoxville and California all pay more than that I believe. I don't know but I think the main ASCS 360 deal pays 5,000 to win 500 to start. Now if you can promote that you should be able to promote non wing racing lol. |
Re: Sprint Car Drivers / Not Owners...
Fremont pays $2500 to win, $250 to start, Attica is $2200 to win, $225 to start, KC is $2500 to win, not sure about start, and Skyline is $1500 to win. The 4 big wing tracks in Ohio still pay better than any non-wing track in Indiana. Doesn't make sense to me.
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Re: Sprint Car Drivers / Not Owners...
@slide22 Thanks I wasn't positive but I thought they paid 2,500 over there. I know one of the neat things over there Attica and Fremont pay a big point fund between the two tracks. They combine both tracks for a champion that pays really well I hear.
I also checked to see if there was a difference in gate admission for the Hoosier Fall Classic compared to the MSCS and USAC 10,000 and they are the same. $25.00 grandstand and $35.00 pit pass. I thought that may be where the difference may be at, but it is the same. I am pretty sure that it cost more to get into a WOO show though. |
Re: Sprint Car Drivers / Not Owners...
All,
I did not start this thread to bash any organizations or anyone affiliated with them. The biggest question I had was how do these young guys compete 3-4 nights a week on a limited income. I try to support as much as possible by attending shows, buying shirts , joining fan clubs, etc.... I think we as fans would attend if these were ran for a $10 purse and some drivers would show up just for the competition. I cannot begin to think that these winged shows can pay so much more than our beloved non-wing! I will say that the crowd at TSS this past weekend was as big as the day the WoO were there. Yes the tickets cost $35 a piece for that show but you see the point. I think that we all have grown so used "the way things have been" or "this is how it has always been" that we fail to realize these purses are ridiculous. I will never downgrade a promoter or a track owner but when I see your track lined with sponsors, push trucks or equipment lined with sponsors and your announcer constantly calls out these sponsors then you have plenty of money to give back to the people who make the race (THE DRIVERS!). I love motor sports period, but nothing I have ever watched has amazed me like a non-wing sprint car and the competition it puts on the track. I wish something could be done to make these purses climb, car counts return to the glory days but I do not see it happening. I thank everyone for their posts regarding this!:6: JW |
Re: Sprint Car Drivers / Not Owners...
I just wanted to also state that I am in no way bashing the promoters or sanctioning bodies as well. I am just stating my opinion and answering questions. Anyone that know's me know's when you ask me a question you get my my honest answer, no beating around the bush, like a Jack Hewitt approach. Like I said earlier the promoters are only being good business men. That is what they are in business for to make every dime they can. How can you blame anyone for running there business the right way. I for one can see in the future that things will change for them though if they don't stop and see what is coming ahead. Please no one take offense to what I am going to say. I do not begrudge anyone for having more than I and would spend my money for my son to race with the best I could afford. But here is what scares me, the future. Where is the next Dave Darland, Jon Stanbrough, Jack Hewitt and so on going to come from. How many guys are really getting in to this sport to race sprint cars? Please anyone correct me if I am wrong, but I believe very few. I believe that if most of the drivers of todays youth movement do not make it to either NASCAR or IRL by the time they are 21 that most of them will be done with sprint cars. We have already lost Hockett, Clayton, and Hessert. I decided not to use names but you can fill them in how many of the dad's do you really think that will keep funding sprint cars spending 100s of thousands of dollars a year for there kid just to run sprint cars. Once the dream of NASCAR is over they are gone. We all know that the kid will probably want to stay and drive but where are they gonna find a ride. Dickie Gaines a proven winner and has had a hard time just finding a ride. There are really only a few rides out there. Now we hear that Stewart is scaling back to a 1 car team and Kahne is down to Sweet and they are running just as much wing as non wing. So what teams out there are hiring drivers the Hoffmans, Stewart, Kahne, Fox, Eddison, Gorbic, Dallas Mullvaney, Pottorff, Hurst, Tate, Benic, Hazen, Truckers and I know I am missing a few but that is not very many teams paying drivers to drive. I am telling you if we do not watch out down the road it is only going to be a driver development series with no veterans to compare them to. I may be way off base but this is just my opinion. You do have guys that just want to race sprint cars and that is all they want to do. But they are the ones that have a hard time getting the rides that are available. Look at Scotty Weir he will drive the wheels off a car and would love probably to make a career out of this but has struggled just go get a ride. Until purses go up where car owners can afford to hire drivers we are not going to see this problem change. Also for teams like the Niflis's until purses go up how long can they hang on? Not very long the cost keeps going up but the money keeps staying the same. I said it a few years ago and I will say it again it will catch up to us I just hope that the promoters and sanctioning bodies are smart enough to start now and try to take care of the problem instead of waiting until it happens. I only say these things because I love sprint car racing and i want to see it succeed to me this has got to happen for it to suceed in the future. The only other alternative is to lower the cost but you still have not fixed how the drivers can make a living when you do that. Best case scenario increase purse and lower the cost.:6:
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Re: Sprint Car Drivers / Not Owners...
The key is that it has to pay better thru the field and not just all on top. The upcoming USAC race at Lawrenceburg may pay 10 to win, but second pays 2. It is simply unacceptable that 10th only pays $450. 11th on back pays $400.
If you make the race and start deep what is the point of running more than half the race if you aren't going forward. Pull in and save your stuff cause the pay is the same. I hate to be negative, but this has to get better. You will get more cars paying 5 to win and making the show pays $800. Take the other 5 the winner would have gotten and spread it through the field. The teams will be happier, the fans will be happier (more cars), the track will make more money (more bodies thru the pitgate) and guys will race harder thru the field. Just my opinion. Terre Haute tomorrow pays less to win, but more to start than the 4 Crown. Who came up with that? The 4 Crown should pay at least 10 to win and $1000 to start. Kevin has it right. Now a sanctioning body (any sanctioning body) needs to pay attention. |
Re: Sprint Car Drivers / Not Owners...
The veterains are making a lot of sense.. I was just wondering if there is anything that the die hard sprint fans could do to help the sport make money other than buying tshirts and going to races. Does any one think they should raise the ticket prises just a little to raise the purses some. may be they could raise the prise a little and let any one who whants go in to the pits go instead of having two diffrent prises at the door
Just a huge sprint fan who whants to see this sport continue |
Re: Sprint Car Drivers / Not Owners...
There are several guys in USAC that I would consider full time racers that are not driving families rides. Coons, Darland, Hines, Levi Jones. Do these guys make a living racing, and do they have other jobs?
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Re: Sprint Car Drivers / Not Owners...
I seriously think that most of this purse structure can be blamed on having to many tracks running on 1 night!!!!
Take tonight for instance 31 cars at Paragon 31 cars at LPS 32 cars in Terre Haute Some of these numbers may be off because thse are the numbers I seen on this board tonight. How many tracks in Indiana ran wings tonight? 1 (Lawrenceburg?) If you are telling me that a promoter would not pay GREAT money throughout the field to have 90 cars to show at his track I would call you crazy! How does everyone else feel about this? |
Re: Sprint Car Drivers / Not Owners...
http://www.i-30speedway.com/stn.html
360 show in Arkansas... Pretty good payoff... I guess we need a 360 also. |
Re: Sprint Car Drivers / Not Owners...
Originally Posted by HurstBros0: |
Re: Sprint Car Drivers / Not Owners...
Originally Posted by HurstBros0: Tim Simmons |
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