Outlawing Rental rides!
 

I know it's not possible, but I feel it would be awesome to oultaw all this rich kid rental rides. It's great for some of these kids, but most of them never have a real job or work for what they have. They don't get rides by performance anymore. There are some that it has worked for that actually deserve it don't get me wrong. If the dads have so much money, go buy a couple cars and race with you're kid! If you want them to go to nascar that's great, but do it the true racing way. Go run local races and you may be off for a while, but so what your kid will learn, and you can learn with them. In my eyes that's what is goin wrong is sprint car racing. It's not nascar, nor should it be. And I'm not fans of all of them, but Brian Clauson, he has talent. And that Stenhouse kid, I hope some of you got to meat him, cause that's the perfect example of a real racer.

This should get some words flowing... Post back let know what ya think. Agree, disagree, don't really care let's hear it.

Cole:headbang:

Re: Outlawing Rental rides!
 

i think most would love to see the rent-a-ride programs ending, however i have a hard time seeing it any time soon.

the main reason being that as long as sprint car drivers are being looked at by the big circus we will see young kids coming in to try and get a break into the big time. some kids will have parents sponsors or any other source of funding that will pay to put them in the best position they can to succeed.

the pipeline south has been a blessing and a curse. we have seen large well funded "super teams" come into our sport, and perhaps a little more exposure to our sport, but along with that came the people who do not look at sprint car racing as a way of life but simply as a step in the process to get to the big time.

its not wrong for people with money to spend it for their kids to race. i think most people would do everything they can to help their kids succeed in their chosen path. i agree some of the "rich kids" lack respect and do not know what it is to work for what they have, but there isnt much you can do about it.

on the car owner's side if you can hire a kid who is a decent driver and can help fund the program...why not? especially if it allows you to make some money racing, or perhaps have the money to race at all.

in the mean time there will be a whole bunch of guys that are trying to do it the old way, and that are here because they love it, and there will be some owners that hire someone to do the job for whatever reason they see fit to allow them to drive their racecar.

thats my .02 cents

Re: Outlawing Rental rides!
 

Originally Posted by Peter Dragon:
I know it's not possible, but I feel it would be awesome to oultaw all this rich kid rental rides. It's great for some of these kids, but most of them never have a real job or work for what they have. They don't get rides by performance anymore. There are some that it has worked for that actually deserve it don't get me wrong. If the dads have so much money, go buy a couple cars and race with you're kid! If you want them to go to nascar that's great, but do it the true racing way. Go run local races and you may be off for a while, but so what your kid will learn, and you can learn with them. In my eyes that's what is goin wrong is sprint car racing. It's not nascar, nor should it be. And I'm not fans of all of them, but Brian Clauson, he has talent. And that Stenhouse kid, I hope some of you got to meat him, cause that's the perfect example of a real racer.

This should get some words flowing... Post back let know what ya think. Agree, disagree, don't really care let's hear it.

Cole:headbang:

Right on what ever happen to earning your rides...respect goes out to Tracy, Levi and dave for that...
RG

Re: Outlawing Rental rides!
 

Theoretically, yes. But, the minute you start telling people what they can or can't spend their money on, then they will just stop putting their money into the sport. Plus, the ones that are very little talent and all money end up getting exposed, anyway.

Jerry

Re: Outlawing Rental rides!
 

If the dads have so much money, go buy a couple cars and race with you're kid!

B I N G O!

I attend many races and I see too many kids in rides that don't deserve to be there, it is simply given to them because "they want to drive a race car" or dad wants the next Tony Stewart. I also see alot of talented racers in less equipment outperforming these kids because they understand a car and know how to make it work. A racer that builds a car, works on the car and races it, is going to know and understand how a car works and make proper adjustments to be competitive. Instead these kids have Dad write a check, climb in a car and stand on the gas, that's all they know. Then when they are not winning, dad simply throws more money at the problem. IMO therein lies the difference, a race car driver and a racer. I think AJ Foyt defined the difference between the two many years ago.

Re: Outlawing Rental rides!
 

rich or poor isn't the issue with me. anything under the age of 16 w/o a valid drivers license is child endangerment in my book. i'm even skeptical of a 16y/o's judgement. that's the youngest i would allow in a sprinter at my track. i'm not questioning ability, just respect for the equipment and decision making skills. most of you, on here, already knew my position on this issue from past discussions.

Re: Outlawing Rental rides!
 

I agree with the lack of respect and decision making skills. How can they have respect for anything if they've never had to work for anything.

Re: Outlawing Rental rides!
 

Originally Posted by cecil98:
rich or poor isn't the issue with me. anything under the age of 16 w/o a valid drivers license is child endangerment in my book. i'm even skeptical of a 16y/o's judgement. that's the youngest i would allow in a sprinter at my track. i'm not questioning ability, just respect for the equipment and decision making skills. most of you, on here, already knew my position on this issue from past discussions.

There are ALOT of drivers over the age of 21 that have poor judgement in racing but I won't name names but several hve ben talked about on this board for both on and off track actions.

I firmly believe if you don't show talent in the lower series like go-karts, 1/4 midgets or micro's you hve no reason buying a ride somewhere that puts you in a position that is over your head.

Re: Outlawing Rental rides!
 

LOL!!! Its been happening for a long time, You just hear of it more these days because teams run ads.

Re: Outlawing Rental rides!
 

I think there are a lot less rental rides than you think. I've always thought that people make a lot bigger deal out of it than it really is.

As we've seen, Darren Hagen is really the only one to make it work so far. And how could you blame them? The kid was fast and his dad didn't know anything about race cars. He went through the boot camp of Jack Yeley and the "racing college" of Keith Kunz and Pete Willoughby. Now, he's one of the few winning on dirt and pavement, and he's good in midgets and sprint cars.

I've heard a lot of people accused of renting rides this year, even Ricky Stenhouse, Jr.! Actually, most of the successful young racers out there right now have come from racing families.

Can you complain about the guys who have gotten the bona fide rides in USAC? Jerry Coons, Jr. has Hoffman and Wilke. Levi and Tracy have TSR. Bacon and Sweet have KKR. Darland has Pace and Lewis. Hunter Schuerenberg is with J.J. Yeley. Damion Gardner has a good sprint car deal. Shane Cottle has a full sprint car deal with Larry Contos. And Kody Swanson is your new driver at Nine Racing.

I really think the "state of the union" is about as good as I can remember...

Re: Outlawing Rental rides!
 

Do you stop them in the IRL,ARCA,and so on. Good drivers are like cream they will come to the top or in this case front. Money is always the name of the game no matter what game you play.
Chuck

Re: Outlawing Rental rides!
 

Simple solution: Ban power steering. Of course, narrow hard tires would help, too.

Dick.

Re: Outlawing Rental rides!
 

Great then we would have "ROIDS" in racing:kookoo2:

Re: Outlawing Rental rides!
 

I agree with you, but from their point of view, most of the time renting a deal out with them is cheaper than starting up the operation yourself. Especially for next year, with just seven pavement sprint car races, would you sink a ton of money into your operation or just cut a check to run someone else's car? (And might I add that this car you'd be running is pretty much the best car in the field.)

Deals like that have also given opportunities to guys like Mike Spencer, Bryan Clauson, Damion Gardner, Casey Shuman, Brad Sweet, Ricky Stenhouse, Jason Leffler, Shane Cottle, and there will be many more in the near future.

Honestly, if I had the money, I'd be throwing it into racing too. I can't blame ANYBODY for choosing to put some of their fortune into their son racing, or themselves racing, or anybody racing. Really, the ones I worry about are those that don't have the surplus of money who are trying to keep their programs going...I hate to see anyone run themselves into the ground because of all this!

Re: Outlawing Rental rides!
 

Originally Posted by Peter Dragon:
Chris Whindom, Darren Hagen, Josh Ford, Tom Hessert, Brad Mossen, Mat Neeley, and Donnie Adams Jr, and now Cole Whitt... Out of those people i listed on the rental side there are two that are decent drivers.

I gather that you think you would be a better driver than any of those you mentioned from behind your mask of anonymity. I doubt it, and please note how the word is spelled.
BTW: The screen names you and Mr. Hunt prefer indicate that you guys spent too much time watching reruns of "Porky's" or some other teeny-bopper flick.

Re: Outlawing Rental rides!
 

Hey steve get a clue! If you have nothin intelligent to say please don't! You obviously have no idea what any of this is about... I've never seen that movie by the way. But i could ask my dad about it... I'm not saying any of them are bad drivers or i am beter than any of them. You sound like a super fan to me. My whole post is about money in racing not the racers. There is no kid that's gonna turn down the chance to race if their dad is gonna pay for it. So go back and read that agian and come up with some beter material... Thanks for your time!

Re: Outlawing Rental rides!
 

I see it another way. How many of these dads have a background in racing? If I bought a sprint car for my teenager tommorrow, I would not have a clue how to make it fast. If I worked on the car, he would not succeed. I would have to hire a crew that knew what the heck they were doing. Now I've spent money for a car and a crew. I imagine that's alot more money than hooking up with an established team. I can't blame a dad for spending money to advance a kid's racing career. Look at the stick and ball sports. Expensive skills clinics and training camps are the norm for athletes looking to go to college and the pros.

Re: Outlawing Rental rides!
 

I used to be very vocally against ride buying but I must say I have changed my point of view towards it, I would hate to see a driver get taken out of a car over money but lets face it this sport is driven by money and money alone. 90% of all gripes on this board are over money. If you take money out of sprint car racing, I am speaking in fantasy here, but if you take money out of it entirely where does that leave us? It leaves us without racing doesnt?

Re: Outlawing Rental rides!
 

The bottom line now a days is, what can you bring to the table? Hell if I had the money some of these people are spending No one would even know who Richard Petty, Aj Foyt or Dale sr. is.

Re: Outlawing Rental rides!
 

Originally Posted by illinisprintfan:
I see it another way. How many of these dads have a background in racing? If I bought a sprint car for my teenager tommorrow, I would not have a clue how to make it fast. If I worked on the car, he would not succeed. I would have to hire a crew that knew what the heck they were doing. Now I've spent money for a car and a crew. I imagine that's alot more money than hooking up with an established team. I can't blame a dad for spending money to advance a kid's racing career. Look at the stick and ball sports. Expensive skills clinics and training camps are the norm for athletes looking to go to college and the pros.

I agree.

If I had a kid that was ready to move up into sprint cars(he would be atleast 16), I would not spend the large amount of money just to have him running a halfway decent setup car. I would spend my money to make sure he has the best chance possible, and that would be either rent a ride for a season with a good team or hire an established crew chief or ex-driver to run my operation.

I have been working on these cars for awhile now and could do decent, yet there are a lot of people with much more experience who would put my son in a better situation.

Sure, if I took a few years, maybe I could get him where he needs to be...but if it was financially possible, I wouldn't waste my $$$ on those few years if it was possible for him to do in 1 year with someone else what he could do in 2 with me.

But, I would not let my son be one of those guys who get out of the car, sit in the air conditioned trailer, and only come out when its time to drive. It would be a hands on deal, I'd make him scrape mud while I sit in the air conditioning! LOL


*** All this dependent on him being ready or capable of running sprint cars. In no way would I let him drive like a nutcase, it would be parked and he could play video games for awhile.


****If the opportunity presented itself to have people like the Briscoe's tutor my son over me, how can one badmouth someone jumping at an opportunity like that?



***I think the bigger issue more so than renting rides, are drivers young or old, who do not belong in sprint cars. We all have seen drivers who are just plain dangerous. Heck, I could buy a car tomorrow and let my neighbor, who is a dentist, run Eldora if he and I were dumb enough.

Re: Outlawing Rental rides!
 

The thing I see that worries me more than the age old (and always will be in racing) "money problem" is the gokart-ta-zation of sprint car racing!

Young kids (punks in some cases) that were brought up beating and banging in gokarts, then slamming into everyone in mini sprints and now destroying theirs and others, full sprints and the sport along with it!

I blame no one but the permissive dads who allow this mentality and in some, thankfully a few, even WORSE behavior like drugs and such!

It worries me that the sport is getting hijacked, not by money, but BAD parents that allow their little future NASCRAP star to run roughshod over them and all their competitors and the sport!

Chew on that boys!

:headbang: :moon: :headbang:

Re: Outlawing Rental rides!
 

Anyone want to be my rich Dad? I need a new everything.

I haven't posted on here since I rejoined back in July for the 3rd time in 5 years and probably will not post as often as I used to but still enjoy the site from time to time.

.

Re: Outlawing Rental rides!
 

The original post was regarding the not so new practice of buying and selling rides. I mention selling because if you are against the ride buyers then you need to also include the ride sellers in your negative views.

I'm not decided on this subject and wonder if buying a ride is or could be considered the same as partnering with a car owner for a ride. I've seen many drivers get rides because they brought a motor into the deal. A few (seems to be more prevalent on pavement) agree to fund the tires.

Thinking more about it, I wonder if bringing a sponsor to the team is considered ride buying?

I'm more "old school" in my thinking but don't see a balance to the ideals of yesterday vs. USAC 2008. Yes, some rides are sold to the high bidder and not given to the best racer. But maybe the best racer is an SOB that can't get along with anybody.

For this thread I am not sure what the riight answer is.

Question: Would you prefer to see another car parked until the car owner finds a repectful, excperienced, smiling, physically conditioned racer that not only drives well, but knows as much about the the car as he knows about racing operations?

Re: Outlawing Rental rides!
 

Originally Posted by Goatboy:
The thing I see that worries me more than the age old (and always will be in racing) "money problem" is the gokart-ta-zation of sprint car racing!

Young kids (punks in some cases) that were brought up beating and banging in gokarts, then slamming into everyone in mini sprints and now destroying theirs and others, full sprints and the sport along with it!

I blame no one but the permissive dads who allow this mentality and in some, thankfully a few, even WORSE behavior like drugs and such!

It worries me that the sport is getting hijacked, not by money, but BAD parents that allow their little future NASCRAP star to run roughshod over them and all their competitors and the sport!

Chew on that boys!

:headbang: :moon: :headbang:

The karts are definately out of control as far as the beating your way to the front. The bump and run is accepted as passing.

Re: Outlawing Rental rides!
 

The reason why this practice is controversial is because all sides have valid points. There is a definitive lean towards younger drivers these days which means they need to get to the point of being "ready" at a younger age. If you're a dad without the knowledge yourself, the rental ride is the only practical way to go. On the other hand if you don't have the resources but are a pretty good shoe, it does sting to see those rides go to funded drivers.

Points that I spend endless days pondering -

1. I question how many of the rental cars would still be running without un-funded drivers so I doubt hardle any are taking rides from anyone else.
2. If Dave Darland's dad had the wherewithal and had funded him into a NASCAR ride, would he be viewed in the same light as he is now?
3. Aren't programs like TSR, KKR & JJ's helping to balance things out by running un-funded young drivers?
4. If tin-tops are the end-all to the ride buyers, I'm wondering if the top-35 rule is essentially going to put in place a glass ceiling that ends up stopping all these young kids from landing somewhere because no-one in corporate america has heard of Kid Racer from USAC but they have heard of Jeremy Mayfield which is why Jeremy continues to get the ride over Kid.
5. If #4 is true, then why not sit back and enjoy the show in the meantime?

Re: Outlawing Rental rides!
 

The art of renting rides have been going on for years. I think when the word rent is mentioned, it is a bad word too many people. I like to use the word sponsorship over the word rent. A young driver or actually any driver that has the hunger to race and has the will can do it. It's called sponsors and they can be a big help not only to the driver getting the ride, but to the car owner keeping his car maintained and going track to track. If you bring sponsorship dollars to your car owner, it seems as people are happy with that, BUT if you bring just money to the table, it is regarded different and is called renting-a-ride. I say both are fine, because both are done on a regular basis and a lot of fine drivers have turned out because of both. Racing is racing, you find a way to do it, or you don't. If you are not good you don't stay in a car usually even if you are renting. I know sponsorship hunting is tough, but they are out there and every bit helps you and your car owner !

Re: Outlawing Rental rides!
 

Define RICH KID???

Tracy Hines started out in family owned equipment!
Davey D. started out in family equipment!

. Where I come from, these 2 guys came from rich backgrounds!

At least 80% of the cars at any race track are family owned, family drivers! A low budget sprint team (even Paragon) spends a **** load more than the average family income!