Help: Need an Impartial Jury
 

Is anyone at fault or is it a racing deal.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qon5vqCMvWc

Re: Help: Need an Impartial Jury
 

For some reason the white car did'nt hold his line and the other car had nowhere to go. I'd say its a unfortunate racing deal. I hope the driver was ok???
Dave

Re: Help: Need an Impartial Jury
 

Looks like a racing deal. White car did not appear to hold his line, but the black car should have had time to lift.

Re: Help: Need an Impartial Jury
 

the car running the top had plenty of time to get out of the throttle and make an adjustment....the white car got a hell of a run coming off 2 and got into 3 a lot better than the car running the top....black car lifts...makes same move at other end of track and the car is still in one piece....

Re: Help: Need an Impartial Jury
 

IMO, the white car definitely drifted up into the other car's line. But, since he did it so gradually, the other driver should have had time to see it happening in front of him and should have been able to avoid being crashed. That's why I would classify it as a racing deal, with the white car being slightly more at fault than the car that flipped. But like the Scheurenberg-Ballou incident @ Kokomo proved, it could look totally different from another angle.

Jerry

Re: Help: Need an Impartial Jury
 

Racing deal IMO. White car was throwing slider and looked to have it cleared. Black car got a run and thought white car was staying low I bet. So yea.... racing deal. If I was the black car i would anticipate white car coming up and would have slowed to get a run off the corner and return the favor.

Easy to say tho when I am "riding the pine" right?

Re: Help: Need an Impartial Jury
 

HEY..gimmee back my video...i stole it fair and square..........:34:

the 15 shoulda lifted.....but if he didnt have a wing on the car, he coulda stuck the top and drove back around the 39.
thats my story and im stickin to it :26:

Re: Help: Need an Impartial Jury
 

To me it doesn't matter if it's lap 1 or the middle of the race or the white flag lap the black car should have used his left foot and tapped the brake and carried on. That was a big time slider and the black car would have had plenty of time to make an attempt to pass again by just going underneath.

Re: Help: Need an Impartial Jury
 

Originally Posted by :
White car did not appear to hold his line, but the black car should have had time to lift.

Agreed- just a racing deal.

Re: Help: Need an Impartial Jury
 

Easy to say tho when I am "riding the pine" right? :5::5::5:
Does Pine know about this Don??:5:

Re: Help: Need an Impartial Jury
 

In my opinion and from sitting in that same position more than once, You just can't take for granted that the black car is gonna lift. He is entitled to his part of the racetrack. If you can make the pass clean, ok. But this crap of the outside guy HAVING to lift to save his equipment is bullcrap. Someone has to spend alot of money as a result of an irresponsible pass. I grew up watching drivers that raced with respect. You race me clean, I race you clean. I could have taken out Jeff Gordon at the 1990 Hut Hundred on the last lap just like that. He didn't deserve to get taken out just for me to win. There was no way the white car was gonna make that corner without making the black car take evasive action. No respect for some one elses life.

Mike Streicher

Re: Help: Need an Impartial Jury
 

Originally Posted by Dave Rudisell:
Easy to say tho when I am "riding the pine" right? :5::5::5:
Does Pine know about this Don??:5:

:18: NO PINE DOESN'T DAVE..:3:

When this crash happened Friday night, the place went nuts booing the white 39 of Doug "The Hammer"<<true Esh...this happened on the white flag lap and Doug went on to win. I guess the passioniate Posse fans let Doug have it in victory lane. They say they booed Doug louder than when Schatz or Kinser wins:18:...WOW...


Sorry Ruppy, for stealing your video. But I wanted an unbias opinion of the crash and I thought this was a good place to get that....

P.S...Luckily The driver of the 15 of Adam Wilt was A O K...

Re: Help: Need an Impartial Jury
 

heres another angle...ill post it myself so's pine dont steal it ;)
it shows how fast the 39 came across and the aftermath.
again, i think it was more of a "block" to try to get the 15 to check up.
i agree with streicher though.....respect is something that has slowly been fading away. perhaps if the person in question knew he was gonna get his azz kicked after a move like that, there would be less "moves like that"
http://www.whptv.com/content/LocalRa...wE8VyOlOA.cspx

ps....pine...this incident has been lighting up the WG board since late friday night and it doesnt appear to be going away soon....if it was about rahmer, it would be locked down, deleted and 345 people would be banned...*** over....

Re: Help: Need an Impartial Jury
 

Take this CRAP TO WINGHEADS:5::5::5:

Re: Help: Need an Impartial Jury
 

Originally Posted by AERO410SCJA:
Take this CRAP TO WINGHEADS:5::5::5:

I posted it here because I know you can't down load it :21:.

I know IOW'ers usually call it like they see it. SOOOOOO excUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUse Meeeeeeeeeeeeeee...:11;

Ruppy, some are foaming at the mouth on the WG board.

Re: Help: Need an Impartial Jury
 

You never want to lift when you've got a good run on somebody. Looks like one of those things

Re: Help: Need an Impartial Jury
 

IMO, just a racing deal, but the black car had time to brake to avoid it.

Re: Help: Need an Impartial Jury
 

Maybe the black car thought Esh would race him clean. Thought wrong. That was an Earnhardt Sr. move by Esh. Tom

Re: Help: Need an Impartial Jury
 

Racing deal.

Re: Help: Need an Impartial Jury
 

Racing deal. The reason most people here give it a fair shake is because and we didn't have a dog in the fight, unlike the WG folks.

Re: Help: Need an Impartial Jury
 

I'm just impressed that they showed highlights from 3 different tracks on the TV news there. Only time that happens here is for the Hoosier 100 or a few at ORP. :6:

Re: Help: Need an Impartial Jury
 

Originally Posted by racefan20:
I'm just impressed that they showed highlights from 3 different tracks on the TV news there. Only time that happens here is for the Hoosier 100 or a few at ORP. :6:

That NEVER happens here,EVER!! When NAPCAR comes to town [twice a year now],we get the stick & ball talking heads falling all over themselves to get an interview with whoever about whatever. Scott Pasmore on Channel 3,our local independent station,would always mention Manzanita and announce upcoming events,but he was one of us.He drove a 360 with the A.S.C.A. Didn't do half bad either! The rest of the media in this town didn't know Manzy existed until the closure was announced. Even then it only got half a mention.BUT I'M NOT BITTER!!:15: Oh yeah,the Williams Grove thing. Looked to me like two wing cars both goin' for it on the white flag lap,just a racin' deal. :27:

Re: Help: Need an Impartial Jury
 

The starter!!!!!!!!!

Re: Help: Need an Impartial Jury
 

While I agree with Mike, I also know that even if I have the right away while crossing the street; if a car is coming at me I am going to do my best to get out of the way. Standing my ground will only get me hurt or in this case:on the wrong side of the retaining fence.

To call it a racing deal is not really true either because using that catch all; all crashes are just a racing deal. It was a poor attempt at a pass that should have been aborted early on.

Re: Help: Need an Impartial Jury
 

Originally Posted by streihawk8:
In my opinion and from sitting in that same position more than once, You just can't take for granted that the black car is gonna lift. He is entitled to his part of the racetrack. If you can make the pass clean, ok. But this crap of the outside guy HAVING to lift to save his equipment is bullcrap. Someone has to spend alot of money as a result of an irresponsible pass. I grew up watching drivers that raced with respect. You race me clean, I race you clean. I could have taken out Jeff Gordon at the 1990 Hut Hundred on the last lap just like that. He didn't deserve to get taken out just for me to win. There was no way the white car was gonna make that corner without making the black car take evasive action. No respect for some one elses life.

Mike Streicher

see.........thats the problem these days........NO RESPECT!!! if you want to save your stuff you have to anticipate other guys being totally reckless ********, thats whats going to get them into nascar......:10::5::3::10::11;

Re: Help: Need an Impartial Jury
 

:29::29::29::29::29:.....did i miss something?

Re: Help: Need an Impartial Jury
 

My observation....take the camera off of auto-focus!

Re: Help: Need an Impartial Jury
 

I think the car on the top should have let him drift up then dove under and drove back by on the bottom of 4...the bottom of 4 at the Grove usually has some bite in it. That way you save the car AND your lead. :) It's so easy to second guess and give advice on a message board... :2:

Re: Help: Need an Impartial Jury
 

Originally Posted by Dave Rudisell:
Easy to say tho when I am "riding the pine" right? :5::5::5:
Does Pine know about this Don??:5:

That's just SO wrong Dave!

"Security to the message board... Security to the message board."

"Riding the pine" is a term that I heard used by someone whom I have an immense amount of respect for.... Her name will be withheld but she knows who she is! We have had discussions on this subject before! That is someone who sits in the stands and watches yet has the wisdom to know more about something (be it racing or circumstances surrounding teams) than the teams or drivers.

Re: Help: Need an Impartial Jury
 

Its a racing deal... but he is still trying to make the guy in the black car lift. Saw Danny Smith do this all night at the 360/410 races at the Burg... and every time I've seen him at KC. For some reason some of these veteran drivers think they can do whatever they want on the track.

Re: Help: Need an Impartial Jury
 

Mike Streicher is right. IMO big slide jobs seem to be the only way to pass on many poorly prepared tracks, this is just one that went wrong.

Re: Help: Need an Impartial Jury
 

Thanks for your opinions on a wing post...My theory is, with everybody running the SAME tire, the SAME wing, the SAME amount of horsepower and basically the SAME talent level, on these big half miles (Eldora), the straight away speed is the same. So the only way to pass is to play chicken through the corners. And with all the rules, (re stricter plate racing, sprint car style) this is going to be a common occurrence on the bigger tracks..

Originally Posted by LittleRube:
:29::29::29::29::29:.....did i miss something?

Most of the time I see you, I'm not even sure you have a pulse, SOOOOOOOO, yea, you probably missed something....:2:

Re: Help: Need an Impartial Jury
 

Better view of it here:

http://www.whptv.com/mediacenter/loc...m&navCatId=697

Re: Help: Need an Impartial Jury
 

That better view changes my opinion. I was ready to say Esh was due a wheel hammer to the head after the initial video, but the second shows he was clearly ahead and didn't see the black car.

Re: Help: Need an Impartial Jury
 

Esh had him cleared, and was obviously coming up the track. I have always assumed the lead car to have the line, so Wilt should have checked up or turned under him. He was trying to put the car in a place that it wouldnt, and didnt fit.