Do sprint car drivers want to qualify at local race tracks??
 

I just wondered if drivers would like to qualify at local race tracks? :2:

Re: Do sprint car drivers want to qualify at a local race track??
 

Originally Posted by Bill Gardner:
I just wondered if drivers would like to qualify at local race tracks? :2:

I can almost guarantee than the large majority of drivers would like to qualify. It's the way it was done for years and it worked just fine.

* Qualifying is part of racing.
* It still gives slower guys a great chance to start infront of a heat and make a feature.
* It prevents guys who have no business starting infront of a heat from being there thus possibly causing the opportunity of more accidents. They can get much more meaningful laps in terms of development running in the back.
* I'm sure the fans love watching the really fast guys come from the back in the heats.


* Does qualifying put more laps on a track and wear it? Sure. But more times than not, when someone blames qualifying for wearing out the track, 9 times out of 10 the track was going to be junk anyway. Terre Haute sprintweek, the track was packed tight because of rain and really dry. There were still guys who had top 10 times near the back.

Wherever you draw in qualifying order, even on pavememt it matters in terms of track conditions, we hear the Nascar and IndyCar guys speak of it all the time. Thats is just part of it.


* Regardless, the cream always rises to the top I guess.

* But, my #1 reason, I just think its cool.


********* But not everyone will agree, and that is fine. I think a good compromise could be something like this when there are people who don't like it because of the wear on the track or the time factor...or whatever.

If there are 35+ cars, a draw for starting spots will be used, anything less than that we will qualify. How abou that for local racing?

Originally Posted by Bill Gardner:
I just wondered if drivers would like to qualify at local race tracks? :2:

As a fan, I wish they would go back to qualifying. It seems to me that drawing lots of times puts the slower drivers in the front, causing more cautionsbbecause of faster cars trying to get to the front An less experianced drivers getting into positions they're not used to. Do all the tracks reuire transpondrs in the cars? If so, why not qualify like USAC midgets, during hot laps, if it's a tine problem.
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Re: Do sprint car drivers want to qualify at a local race track??
 

I like (love) qualifying because:

* Its part of the whole racing package
* Its exciting to see teams try to lay down great laps
* It usually sorts the cars to where they belong
* It lets every driver / team be featured one at a time on the track without sharing the attention and have their sponsors and back stories mentioned

Re: Do sprint car drivers want to qualify at local race tracks??
 

Especially on pavement, no. More laps on the tires. Keep time in hot laps. If the car count is down and there is no B, a fast, mid, and slow heat gives more action and guys run with others with their own skill and equipment. The bigger the track the more spread out the heats become. Getting lapped in a heat can be hard on the ego of a beginner.

Re: Do sprint car drivers want to qualify at local race tracks??
 

Re: Do sprint car drivers want to qualify at local race tracks??
 

Originally Posted by Barney:
I am not a driver just a fan. But I could do without qualifing. I go to see racing and dont care for the time trials. And why Terra Haute let everybody have a full lap before they got on the clock during sprintweek to me was rediculous. It just made the whole process take a lot longer than it needed to.

I know this will be a hot topic. But I agree with you. I don't care for qualifying...it's boring and I go to the races...to see RACES, not qualifying. I know faster drivers like it, because it puts them in heats with faster guys, but that also makes for boring racing too I think. One could say qualifying is part of racing, but so is passing and making your way through lapped traffic. Most of the time lapped cars make for a great feature because the leaders encounter problems negotiating them. I for one LIKE that about dirt racing.
Qualifying during hot laps is the worst idea I've heard of. Don't do that. Also, if the sprints qualify, then the support classes are going to start saying they want to as well...then what?
To me, the best system I've seen is drawing for position, and then running a passing points system. It makes for good racing, it's fair, and the fast guys always manage to make their way to the front. The only issue I have with passing points is that if you wreck in your heat, it's really hard to come back to make the feature through the B, because you'll start in the back. But then again, if you're good enough...you'll transfer, and it'll be a great race. That's just my opinion.

Re: Do sprint car drivers want to qualify at local race tracks??
 

Originally Posted by cmiracingvids:
I know this will be a hot topic. But I agree with you. I don't care for qualifying...it's boring and I go to the races...to see RACES, not qualifying. I know faster drivers like it, because it puts them in heats with faster guys, but that also makes for boring racing too I think. One could say qualifying is part of racing, but so is passing and making your way through lapped traffic. Most of the time lapped cars make for a great feature because the leaders encounter problems negotiating them. I for one LIKE that about dirt racing.
Qualifying during hot laps is the worst idea I've heard of. Don't do that. Also, if the sprints qualify, then the support classes are going to start saying they want to as well...then what?
To me, the best system I've seen is drawing for position, and then running a passing points system. It makes for good racing, it's fair, and the fast guys always manage to make their way to the front. The only issue I have with passing points is that if you wreck in your heat, it's really hard to come back to make the feature through the B, because you'll start in the back. But then again, if you're good enough...you'll transfer, and it'll be a great race. That's just my opinion.

Qualifying during hot laps has worked out great at Kokomo. They draw to see what group they go out with, and usually have 6 or 7 cars per group. Yea sometimes faster cars get bottled up behind slower cars, but it only takes one lap to get a good time. The fast cars are almost always the fastest qualifyers.

Re: Do sprint car drivers want to qualify at local race tracks??
 

Group qualifying is good and speeds up the show. At first I didn't think that I would like the group qualifying but the more I watched the better I liked it. The fast guys still rise to the top and it adds something to hot laps. Kokomo has group qualifying and the drivers still turn some very quick laps even though other cars are on the track with them. It also helps some guys who can pace off of other cars get better times, we all know drivers past and present that didn't qualify very good by themselves, but when the racing started they were very good. It does save the track and speeds up the program. Group qualifying lets the driver have some control over his destiny compared to the pill draw. Group qualifying has been said to screw the early guys or the late guys but this has always been the case with any qualifying. If a driver drew an early number and the track was fast or greasy, it made a big difference, the same can be said for the guys that drew a late number and the track came to them or dried up. Group qualifying puts more drivers with the same type of track conditions, which keeps the times close.

Re: Do sprint car drivers want to qualify at local race tracks??
 

Originally Posted by Barney:
I am not a driver just a fan. But I could do without qualifing. I go to see racing and dont care for the time trials. And why Terra Haute let everybody have a full lap before they got on the clock during sprintweek to me was rediculous. It just made the whole process take a lot longer than it needed to.

Originally Posted by cmiracingvids:
I know this will be a hot topic. But I agree with you. I don't care for qualifying...it's boring and I go to the races...to see RACES, not qualifying. I know faster drivers like it, because it puts them in heats with faster guys, but that also makes for boring racing too I think. One could say qualifying is part of racing, but so is passing and making your way through lapped traffic. Most of the time lapped cars make for a great feature because the leaders encounter problems negotiating them. I for one LIKE that about dirt racing.
Qualifying during hot laps is the worst idea I've heard of. Don't do that. Also, if the sprints qualify, then the support classes are going to start saying they want to as well...then what?
To me, the best system I've seen is drawing for position, and then running a passing points system. It makes for good racing, it's fair, and the fast guys always manage to make their way to the front. The only issue I have with passing points is that if you wreck in your heat, it's really hard to come back to make the feature through the B, because you'll start in the back. But then again, if you're good enough...you'll transfer, and it'll be a great race. That's just my opinion.

Are we new fans to the sport?

There is nothing as cool as the sound of one lone sprint car engine sucking in air and making big horsepower. I have been a gopher, crew member, driver and announcer, I have been going to the sprint car races for 40 years, I love qualifying and I miss it dearly!
I go to watch hot laps, qualifying and of course the racing, that is the full picture of who's who in engine builders, chassis set up and the HERO's that will put it all on the line to be the fastest You can see who knows how to pick the fast line, and you can hear the BEAUTIFUL sound of BIG money motors.

If it were my choice it would be against the law to "NOT" have qualifying. :2:
Just my .02

Re: Do sprint car drivers want to qualify at local race tracks??
 

Originally Posted by Panama:
Are we new fans to the sport?

There is nothing as cool as the sound of one lone sprint car engine sucking in air and making big horsepower. I have been a gopher, crew member, driver and announcer, I have been going to the sprint car races for 40 years, I love qualifying and I miss it dearly!
I go to watch hot laps, qualifying and of course the racing, that is the full picture of who' who in engine builders, chassis set up and the HERO's that will put it all on the line to be the fastest You can see who know how to pick the fast line, you can hear the BEAUTIFUL sound of BIG money motors.

If it were my choice it would be against the law to "NOT" have qualifying. :2:
Just my .02

New fan? Absolutely not. I'm 25 years old, and have been going to races since I could barely walk. So yes, you have more years under your belt than me. That being said, I think that I may be the "new generation" of race fan. One who likes RACING, not qualifying.
And my question about whether or not the support classes will qualify still remains.

And again with the group qualifying. I haven't seen it in person so I guess I can't say much. But how does it work? Do you hot lap, then get a chance to go back and tune or adjust your car...then go back out? Because that seems fair to me. But if you get timed during your first and only hot lap session, that's ridiculous. I've seen VERy good drivers just simply have their car set up incorrectly for hot laps. Too tight...far too loose. These things can happen during hot laps to very good drivers. But that's what hot laps is for, to give them practice on a particular track on a particular night.

So how does group qualifying actually work?

Re: Do sprint car drivers want to qualify at local race tracks??
 

Group qualifying is hot laps and qualifying combined. Everyone has to make the right decisions based on experience or input from other drivers. You make a point of "testing" your car for setup but I have seen over many years that even after hot laps drivers would miss the setup. I've been going to races for over 30 years and have been to many different tracks and it all evens out, the cream rises to the top.

Re: Do sprint car drivers want to qualify at local race tracks??
 

Originally Posted by nonwing79:
Group qualifying is hot laps and qualifying combined. Everyone has to make the right decisions based on experience or input from other drivers. You make a point of "testing" your car for setup but I have seen over many years that even after hot laps drivers would miss the setup. I've been going to races for over 30 years and have been to many different tracks and it all evens out, the cream rises to the top.

Hmmm. I don't like that. But hey...that's what makes racing great right? We're all entitled to our opinions.

Does Kokomo do group qualifying for their support classes?

Re: Do sprint car drivers want to qualify at local race tracks??
 

No

Re: Do sprint car drivers want to qualify at local race tracks??
 

Yes!!

Re: Do sprint car drivers want to qualify at local race tracks??
 

Originally Posted by nonwing79:
No

I'm ok with that. I'll have to check out Kokomo some night.

Re: Do sprint car drivers want to qualify at local race tracks??
 

Group qualify then fast qualifier draws pill for number of car inversion!

Re: Do sprint car drivers want to qualify at local race tracks??
 

Quals are great if the track operator can re-work the track before the feature.

If it takes time or screws the track No! pill draw.

If track re-works and give a good surface for the feature Hell Yes !!!


Support Classes - No way, draw only.

Re: Do sprint car drivers want to qualify at local race tracks??
 

I see its been hijacked by fans so here goes nothing.

My track went to pill draws years ago and the track still slicked off by the end of the first heat. I got to see one or two USAC shows a year and qualifying. It was always neat. It was neat when I was a kid.

But I thought qualifying was wearing tracks out ect. That low budget teams didn't stand a chance with qualifying.

I WAS WRONG, SPridge is right. With a good format with inversions Qualifying and fast guys having to pass to transfer makes for THE BEST RACING! Not only are they on the HAMMER TRYING TO MAKE IT! Slower qualifying cars are doing their damndest to keep their possition or move forward themselves!

The sound of one car, The visual of doing everything within himself and his car to do the best possible to the point of bicycling "THE EDGE" is sometimes more exciting than many of the races that will happen later that night. Look at AGAR's pics from Terre. All that bicycling and one wheeling ect was QUALIFYING! The crowd ooohing and ahhing!

Now im seeing tracks that don't "COME IN" untill the second feature and only using half the track most of the night.

Yeah, your being charged more and missing "PART OF RACING" without it. Those against are probably the ones showing up at RACE TIME and finding a few cars left to qualify. IN CONSIDER IT PART OF RACING and a ASSET TO THE SPORT!

Nothing as boring as a pill draw, A top car getting the pole in heat one, Running off and then getting the pole for the feature. Yeah he earned it but it took a lot less to EARN.

Chuck, either way, I still love dirt track racing. I find group qualifying to not ADD anything to the show for the fan but helps the drivers. Its just hotlaps to me and sometimes a car is held up durring it and doesn't get the track time prior to qualifications that would help him *SETUP* for *QUALIFICATIONS*

Re: Do sprint car drivers want to qualify at local race tracks??
 

I think it would be nice if they did both sprints and mods.

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester:
I see its been hijacked by fans so here goes nothing.

My track went to pill draws years ago and the track still slicked off by the end of the first heat. I got to see one or two USAC shows a year and qualifying. It was always neat. It was neat when I was a kid.

But I thought qualifying was wearing tracks out ect. That low budget teams didn't stand a chance with qualifying.

I WAS WRONG, SPridge is right. With a good format with inversions Qualifying and fast guys having to pass to transfer makes for THE BEST RACING! Not only are they on the HAMMER TRYING TO MAKE IT! Slower qualifying cars are doing their damndest to keep their possition or move forward themselves!

The sound of one car, The visual of doing everything within himself and his car to do the best possible to the point of bicycling "THE EDGE" is sometimes more exciting than many of the races that will happen later that night. Look at AGAR's pics from Terre. All that bicycling and one wheeling ect was QUALIFYING! The crowd ooohing and ahhing!

Now im seeing tracks that don't "COME IN" untill the second feature and only using half the track most of the night.

Yeah, your being charged more and missing "PART OF RACING" without it. Those against are probably the ones showing up at RACE TIME and finding a few cars left to qualify. IN CONSIDER IT PART OF RACING and a ASSET TO THE SPORT!

Nothing as boring as a pill draw, A top car getting the pole in heat one, Running off and then getting the pole for the feature. Yeah he earned it but it took a lot less to EARN.

Chuck, either way, I still love dirt track racing. I find group qualifying to not ADD anything to the show for the fan but helps the drivers. Its just hotlaps to me and sometimes a car is held up durring it and doesn't get the track time prior to qualifications that would help him *SETUP* for *QUALIFICATIONS*

Could't have said it better. I always feel cheated when no qualifying, pay more for less.
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Re: Do sprint car drivers want to qualify at local race tracks??
 

Chuck, Spridge also convinced me that qualifying was the way to go in Indiana...

I thought this was a cool way to qualify:

I was at a big Late Model show and the driver's pulled a pill for which heat race they were in. Then when the heats were set, they did group qualifying. Every car in the first heat came out and ( group Qualified) and their times set the first heat. Then the second heat came out to ( group Qualify) and their times set the second heat. Third, fourth and fifth heats did the same thing. Each heat had a 6 car invert with 4 to qualify. Then the B Main was lined straight up, with the fastest non-qualifier on the pole and so on...

That way each car from the same heat was qualifying on the same racing surface...No advantage or dis-advantage. It was different, but seemed fair to me....:22:

Re: Do sprint car drivers want to qualify at local race tracks??
 

Personally, I prefer qualifying, I feel it gives me one more shot at the track, to get some feedback from it, but on the otherhand, I'd also like to have another short hot lap session, and as it doesn't seem possible to have both, I'd rather qualify, as a fan or a driver, I think it should be done, but, we can't always do what we want, even tho we are paying the tab, so I guess we do whatever fits the occasion. Bob

Re: Do sprint car drivers want to qualify at local race tracks??
 

Pine, Interesting but still group qualifying with 9 distractions on the track.

Eldora opener, Think it was BC who went out, Set fast time, Might have been Sweet. 30 other cars qualify, You think track is gone, No way anyones going to touch it. DD comes out last, QUICK TIME!!!!!!!!! *CHEERS*

Kamp Sprint week, Top goes away a bit, About 2/3rds through qualifying cars hit the bottom groove, QUICK TIME. Top gets some cushion back, QUICK TIME!!!!! this night was up and down the whole session :)

Seen Kinser and others do it dozens of times on tracks you thought were *BEST CONDITIONS GONE*

Re: Do sprint car drivers want to qualify at local race tracks??
 

I do understand both sides of the issue.
D.O. said it right, "if the track can be re-worked" that is when it is best.
With daylight savings time and huge car counts, I can see what the track preparers and promoters are up against.
So not qualifying, does not keep me from going.

But as a driver, (way back when), even though I could never hit my ass qualifying, I still wanted (and needed) the track time.

Re: Do sprint car drivers want to qualify at local race tracks??
 

I can tell you the guy I help every once in awhile has passed on going to the track because they don't qualify. Not only did he quit going to the local tracks he basically just decided to wing race because they qualify and of course there was the purse difference.

Re: Do sprint car drivers want to qualify at local race tracks??
 

I think the group qualifying that Pine was talking about is still one car on the track at a time. The pill draw sets up what heat you are in and then your qualifying time determines where you start in that heat.

Re: Do sprint car drivers want to qualify at local race tracks??
 

This is a format that I would like to see used.

1. pill draw for group...

2. then group qualifying, one car on the track at a time, one lap only. You qualify against everyone in your group not the entire field. I like this because it eliminates the advantage or disadvantage that someone gets with a early or late pill draw. You would see this alot during high car count nights... a guy that qualifies 5th is on a better track surface than a guy that qualifies 50th or vice versa it all depends on track conditions.

3. Invert the top 4 qualifiers during heats after top 4 you line up by time.

4. The heat race finish determines your starting position in B-main & Feature.

5. then finally a pill draw determines the invert in feature.

This format accomplishes everything I think a race needs... there is qualifying... a heat race finish means more than just a transfer spot.... and the guys running the b-main don't get there times back and get to start up front feature.

You also eliminate the non-qualifiers race... you give everyone a chance to race all night.

I believe this format would produce some of the best racing you will ever see.

Re: Do sprint car drivers want to qualify at local race tracks??
 

Bill,

The format you propose is very similar to the one used at Bloomington Speedway for their qualifying shows (Spring Clash & Sheldon Kinser Memorial).

The only differences are that your qualifying time has to stack up against the entire field, not just your group. Also, instead of a pill draw to determine the feature invert they have the heat winners redraw for starting position.

-----

When I'm at Bloomington Friday I'll make a copy of the draw from this years Sheldon Kinser Memorial to compare how the heats would have lined up if we would have determined who was in what heat by their draw.

Re: Do sprint car drivers want to qualify at local race tracks??
 

Sandy... I kinda figured something comparable was already being used... it is interesting to to see all the different ideas from people as to what would be best.

If I were the promoter... what I stated above is exactly how I run all my shows. Along with starting the races earlier... run hotlaps and qualifying then re-work the track. Heat races start at 7pm... run the same format for both sprints and mods. And only run those two classes. Of course I would seriously have to consider running bombers because they always bring lots of people with them. they would have to be straight up draw.

Oh and I need to mention... Track prep would be done all week long.

Maybe one day of these days I will win the lottery and then find out it is much easier to type about what do than it is to actually do it...:2: BTW... I already know that too.:3:

Re: Do sprint car drivers want to qualify at local race tracks??
 

Thanks to us using SpeedNet Direct at Bloomington that information was online.

If we would have put the cars into the heats by draw and started them by time the heat lineups for the Sheldon Kinser Memorial would have been:

HEAT 1
Mike Hess (17) – Eric Smith (16)
Tim Spindler (14) – Kenny Niflis (3)
Jared Harris (18) – Matt Goodnight (21)
Drew Ikerd (26) – Brian Lake (NT)
Jesse Cramer (NT)

HEAT 2
Shane Cottle (7) – Nic Faas (6)
Brady Short (4) – Jeff Bland, Jr. (1)
Casey Shuman (8) – Ted Hines (9)
Jeff Wimmenauer (10) – Robert Ballou (19)
Kenny Carmichael (23)

HEAT 3
Brent Beauchamp (12) – Ty Deckard (13)
Bryan Clauson (2) – Chad Boat (5)
Danny Holtsclaw (15) – Ethan Barrow (27)
Scott Hampton (33) – Jordan Kinser (37)

HEAT 4
Mike Spencer (24) – Chase Briscoe (22)
Kevin Thomas, Jr. (20) – Jon Stanbrough (11)
Hunter Schuerenberg (28) – Seth Parker (30)
Casey Riggs (31) – Mark Perry III (32)

HEAT 5
Kyle Robbins (35) – Dickie Gaines (34)
Ricky Williams (29) – Kent Christian (25)
Bub Cummings (36) – John Dick (38)
Cam Schafer (39) – Eric Edwards (40)

**The number in parenthesis is where they were ranked by time.


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Of interest is the fact that Robert Ballou was the 19th qualifier out and was 17th fastest.
By using the complete qualifying results to make the heats Robert started on the pole of
Heat 4 (which he won). In the above scenario he would have had an eighth place starting
spot in his heat.

Re: Do sprint car drivers want to qualify at local race tracks??
 

With the exception of a few guys that are always fast... when you look at the entire field the times appear to slow down from car 1 to 42 That is why I like the group qualifying... puts everyone on an even racing surface.

Re: Do sprint car drivers want to qualify at local race tracks??
 

I know the night Sandy was showing about we started 3rd row inside. With the format she shows we would have been outside front row. After really looking at this I think Bill you are on to something it really does eliminate the effect of a bad draw. But you still have to race hard in your heat for starting position. The only problem I can see with it is you still will have some weaker heats than others but it is still a lot better than a blind draw.

Re: Do sprint car drivers want to qualify at local race tracks??
 

You're right... with this you could have every fast guy at the race in the same heat.... (kinda like being at a sprint week race... eh...;) ) and all the slower less experienced drivers in another... but with the good crop of drivers we now have in sprint cars... I am comfortable that quality guys will still finish up front.


Oh.. and BTW... Happy Birthday

Re: Do sprint car drivers want to qualify at local race tracks??
 

from a fan's perspective, qualifying -
...gives the PA a chance to tell you a little about each driver & team --> makes it easier to remember who's who when racing starts.
...teams that tour around, but don't race for points at a single track or series, are more likely to drop in if they have a chance to compete for a good starting spot rather than being handicapped to the rear.

Re: Do sprint car drivers want to qualify at local race tracks??
 

Nobody should be penalized three times because of a "bad draw".

1 Start in the back of a heat because of a bad draw and crash or flat tire, 2 have to start on tail of Bmain and IF you make the feature 3 start on the tail of it.

If you bust your a$$ to make the show like this you should at least get your qualifying time back.

Re: Do sprint car drivers want to qualify at local race tracks??
 

They need to run the osky format sprint bandit format best deal there is.Seen to many people lay down a quick time and stroke it in the heat so they can start up front in the b and then get there time back for the a which says to me is they can only go fast by themselves and if you have to earn it racing they can not do it.If you need to race by yourself and need a time to set you up then go drag racing they you will not have to come close to anyone else at all.