More competitive sprint car racing
 

why dont they start a series im southern Indiana for the burg where its more affordable and competitive like a crate motor or 350 sprint car series or class at the burg and other tracks ..tire rules and what ever else to make it more competitive

please give your comment on this

Re: More competitive sprint car racing
 

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! too many classes already,I say run what ya brung:7::7:
ROB

Re: More competitive sprint car racing
 

Crate engine classes historically are hard to get started and take off. Plus it is possible to break the seals on these engines and reseal them. Maybe something like a 305 or 358 class, but not crate engines.

Re: More competitive sprint car racing
 

Car counts right now are fragile anyway. Why cut the pie into more pieces? Saturday night non wing sprint car racing is divided among Lawrenceburg, Waynesfield, Paragon, Lincoln Park and Vermilion County right now. Throw in a special show such as USAC, MSCS or SCORA at Tri State, Terre Haute or Eldora and you have even more choices. How do you figure that it would be more competitive dividing the car counts already out there? If someone can't afford a 410 sprint car what makes you think they can afford a 350? Where would the additional fans support come from?

The crate late model's haven't exactly taken the midwest by storm. I don't follow them that closely but I don't hear that much about them and car counts have been low when I have seen them. If fact I think Twin Cities ran them for a while and dropped them. I might be wrong so we need help in the area. Calling resident IOW late model expert Chris Nunn to the table! Chris, what about the crate late model movement? Can a couple of southen Indiana race tracks afford to take that chance?

Re: More competitive sprint car racing
 

What's with all the 350, 305 talk:7:Run a sprint car if you can afford to,if not run a modified,street stock,thunder car,bomber, or what ever you can afford.RACING IS NOT CHEAP IN ANY CLASS,STATE OR COUNTRY!Someone will always have a bigger trailer,more spares, better equipment.LET INDIANA SPRINT CAR RACING THE WAY IT IS:21:

Re: More competitive sprint car racing
 

ive seen more side by side finshes this year than i ever have. kokomo gascity bloomington. they"ve all had side by side finshes.

Re: More competitive sprint car racing
 

how many times are we going to beat this dead horse????:24: why would you start up a different series when you are pulling decent car counts already........seems pointless to me....although i do like the idea of the scora deal, primarily because i am a low buck racer, its only barely getting by.......i would be supprised to see it last another year........sad...but thats the deal!

Re: More competitive sprint car racing
 

what does the pa 358 guys pay for motors? and what horsepower do they make?

Re: More competitive sprint car racing
 

Some of them guys are paying 30 grand for motors to run for 1,200.Sounds like a good deal :15:

Re: More competitive sprint car racing
 

Originally Posted by AERO410SCJA:
What's with all the 350, 305 talk:7:Run a sprint car if you can afford to,if not run a modified,street stock,thunder car,bomber, or what ever you can afford.RACING IS NOT CHEAP IN ANY CLASS,STATE OR COUNTRY!Someone will always have a bigger trailer,more spares, better equipment.LET INDIANA SPRINT CAR RACING THE WAY IT IS:21:

Actually the 305 deal at Fremont/Attica is pretty cool. 30-40 cars each night, and alot of times better racing than the 410's.

Re: More competitive sprint car racing
 

Originally Posted by slide22:
Actually the 305 deal at Fremont/Attica is pretty cool. 30-40 cars each night, and alot of times better racing than the 410's.

those cars are up north and show no sign of coming south tho. cost wise there a very cool class to race and a very competitve one:23::22:

Re: More competitive sprint car racing
 

Originally Posted by throb:
how many times are we going to beat this dead horse????:24: why would you start up a different series when you are pulling decent car counts already........seems pointless to me....although i do like the idea of the scora deal, primarily because i am a low buck racer, its only barely getting by.......i would be supprised to see it last another year........sad...but thats the deal!

Somebody asked for a dead horse?
http://www.threadbombing.com/data/me...tDeadHorse.gif

Re: More competitive sprint car racing
 

Originally Posted by knoke77:
somebody asked for a dead horse?
http://www.threadbombing.com/data/me...tdeadhorse.gif

:8::8:

Re: More competitive sprint car racing
 

Running both a crate motor and open motors, the motor itself is better on the pocket book, but still the class in itself is very expensive like any form of racing. What we have ran into with the crates are the non motor rules. Tires being the biggest issue. There are 4 sanctioning bodies to race with in our area. ILMS, NeSmith, UMP, Fastrak. All 4 of them have their own tire rule and Some have shock rules. In my opinion the crate class would very much increase in followers if the tire rule were either opened up or all the same. Then, going on Friday to a track that you can run the $800 shocks and on Saturday going to another track that you have to run $150 shocks. It gets tough sometimes. I still think the fewer the rules the easier it is on the wallet in the long run.

The ILMS is averaging around 20 cars a night with the "better" tracks pushing 30. That is up significantly from last year when they were getting 10-15, and the year before that 5-10 cars.

Re: More competitive sprint car racing
 

Originally Posted by HoosierDirt:
why dont they start a series im southern Indiana for the burg where its more affordable and competitive like a crate motor or 350 sprint car series or class at the burg and other tracks ..tire rules and what ever else to make it more competitive

please give your comment on this

Read these responses and you have your answer. For some reason if you mention CRATE MOTOR or something similar people seem to freak out. SCORA has a good thing going but the traveling hinder's it a bit, I attended the SCORA event at Osgood and spoke with a car owner and he told me that he would run SCORA more if it didn't travel so far..as he was in southern Indiana.

He said he ventures to lburg sometimes but only when there is a smaller car count expected as that is really the only way they can make a show. I wonder how many other's are in the same boat, it's not hurting car count if they aren't coming anyway.

Crate Motor sealed, No cockpit adjustable shocks, Open tire rule....Would it work?

Re: More competitive sprint car racing
 

If you do something like this you need to keep the rules fairly open, so you can run other places as well. Like run lawrenceburg's rules, except has to be a 305 engine. Don't do like Sharon Speedway does and have mandated shocks. Dumbest rule ever.

Re: More competitive sprint car racing
 

I know you are worried about cutting up the car counts, but there could be alot of people like me that would go out aand buy a car, bring in a new car count. I am interested in SCORA, but way too much traveling. I would say just make it a crate 350, open tires (no grooving), open shocks(all chassis are different and require slightly different setup).

Re: More competitive sprint car racing
 

waynesfield was talking about a new sprint series next year. i think a crate motor deal was what they were talking about. anyone know?

Re: More competitive sprint car racing
 

A look at the history of short track, open-wheel racing would tell us that one of the main factors contributing to its often near demise and cyclical popularity has been the over-proliferation of various clubs, tracks, and sanctioning bodies vying for the same audience and participant pool. There should always be those series which are feeders and development places of new talent, but there also has to be an elite strata to attract the new or casual fan for the sport to prosper. In short what we have IMHO is more than enough series, but what I feel is needed is a few big money, high prestige events for non-wing racing to return to its proper place as the most competitive form of sprint car racing. Not more series to further divide the fan, driver, and car pool.

Re: More competitive sprint car racing
 

More clubs and classes are not the answer, and as mentioned earlier, a crate class is hard to start up. Here in California we have too many clubs which contributes to very low car counts. In this tough economic times the concentration needs to be on getting the existing cars to show up, not adding more classes with 10 cars.

Re: More competitive sprint car racing
 

whats a competitive SCORA motor cost? how much do they pay to start

Re: More competitive sprint car racing
 

Originally Posted by mini27:
whats a competitive SCORA motor cost? how much do they pay to start

I'm pretty sure the only engine rule is it has to be a steel block, so the sky is the limit on cost, seeing as a typical ASCS Steel Block 360 costs 35,000 +. Crate engines aren't the way to go though, historically it does not work. You have to allow some form of ingenuity while still keeping costs low. If you want to run low buck sprint car racing, run 305's, or go run Waynesfield or Paragon. I'd like to see that Ecotec midget take off in this area, that could be a fun deal. But the only problem is that it is still a single engine provider.

Re: More competitive sprint car racing
 

The best "low budget" club that I have ever seen is the Miswest Sprint Association. They are not crate motors, but are inspected by an official and then sealed. Anyone can build one, they are fairly cheap, and you can put 50 nights on one. They run two nights every week and average somewhere between 30 and 40 cars every single night. Check them out. www.msasprints.com

Re: More competitive sprint car racing
 

we ran 360s and 410s in CA and the cost was about the same. you would be surprised how much you need to spend on a competitive 360 motor. However, there is a fast growing group in CA that runs steel block 358s with starters on them and this is a fast growing group. from the stands there's not too much difference but the cost on these keeps going up. a sprint car is a sprint car once you get past the motore costs and believe me ther's not much difference if you want to run up front.

Re: More competitive sprint car racing
 

If you are looking to put more cars on the track, and more butts in the stands, I would suggests taking a page out of the 1990 IMCA Modified Rule book. This is a class that has grown wildly over the years. They are no threat to Late model car counts (a sprint car version would be no threat to your full up sprints), and there is one in every garage in Iowa. The most effective rule: Engline claim. Run anything you want, but if asked, you sell it right then and there for $XXX, or lose the win, monies, and points for the night with a two race suspension. It keeps the rich guys at bay, car counts high, stands full. One other note about people in the stands. Folks like to watch someone they know race. A relative, or co-worker. Somebody local. Around here, the stands are packed full of people there to watch their buddy run a four cylinder POS. They come to see Joe run, and are exposed to dirt track racing for the first time. Many get hooked. You may not be a fan of junk on wheels, but promoters around here are. Full stands, full pits, full pockets. Like 'em or not, they are the best thing to happen to racing in these parts in decades. Perhaps if more local guys could afford a low-budget sprint car, it would work for us as well.

There's my $.02. I've been preaching it to deaf ears for years, so bash away.

Re: More competitive sprint car racing
 

Am I the only one,who remembers the Sprint car class, that may have ran Bloomington a few times, in the early 90's? Best I can remember, the engine was a carbureted, basically stock, 350cu in, no FI, stock ign, just put a stock motor, more or less, with a carb on it, in a Sprint car chassis, and Bingo, you got a lo-buck Sprint car class. Did well, till they tried racing them, seems they didn't turn real well, plenty of straight away speed, but horribly under powered in the turns, kept the tow truck operator busy, hauling them off the track. Might have been a better choice to have allowed FI, or something other than a Rochester 4bbl carb. Oh well, nothing is easy, and all hobbies are/get expensive. Several times, at Dayton's auction, I saw several, "old" Sprint car chassis, loaded/stacked on open trailers,and doubled on pickups, bought for less that the old tires were worth, so one night I asked, and they said they put 4 cylinder "crate", junk yard motors in them, and rented them out to wannbe racers. What can I say, they were smilin when they left Indy, headed SW! Bob

Re: More competitive sprint car racing
 

Once again I am going to tell all of you that IF you put a 1 3/4" header on an engine it will not make big power. I tried to get SCORA to impose this rule but Sam wouldn't do it. Its the 1 thing that will make everyone equal.

Right now adjustable shocks are becoming the most exspensive must have items on the cars and having someone who knows how to set them up. A lot of the top teams have shock dynos in their trailers now.

The only way to control costs is NOT to pay "BIG MONEY" pay good show up money and they will come. Pay good through out the field and they will race. Bloomington is a perfect example of that. If Bloomington paid everybody $100 to show they would probably get 60 cars every night like Paragon.

The "Burg" is too fast and dangerous now for your regular weekend warriors. As a matter of fact the weekend warriors are starting to die out.

Re: More competitive sprint car racing
 

Originally Posted by Motormasher:
Once again I am going to tell all of you that IF you put a 1 3/4" header on an engine it will not make big power. I tried to get SCORA to impose this rule but Sam wouldn't do it. Its the 1 thing that will make everyone equal.

Right now adjustable shocks are becoming the most exspensive must have items on the cars and having someone who knows how to set them up. A lot of the top teams have shock dynos in their trailers now.

The only way to control costs is NOT to pay "BIG MONEY" pay good show up money and they will come. Pay good through out the field and they will race. Bloomington is a perfect example of that. If Bloomington paid everybody $100 to show they would probably get 60 cars every night like Paragon.

The "Burg" is too fast and dangerous now for your regular weekend warriors. As a matter of fact the weekend warriors are starting to die out.

Really, the adjustable shocks aren't expensive when you think about it. About $450 for on adjustable shock for each corner right? Then you get one spare. To equal that with non-adjustable shocks you have to have 4-5 different shocks for each corner, instead of just one that can be adjusted. Now, I don't have a problem with banning cockpit adjustable shocks though.

Re: More competitive sprint car racing
 

Im all for competitive cost afective racing, the reason half the rules made dont work is that the sanctioning bodies dont police them, new cost afective series made, rules dont get policed and the cost afective part gos out the window

Re: More competitive sprint car racing
 

Paragon don't pay BIG money and they still get 40 50 cars and the racing is good and everyone has a lot of fun. Isn't that what its all about???