Question About Steve Kinser
 

I saw Steve brought up in another thread on here and it made me start thinking bout him. I know that many Wing drivers at some point have takin the Wings off and run Non Wing. Has Steve ever run non wing? Where did he race? Did he do any good? Thanks

JJ Hughes

Re: Question About Steve Kinser
 

I saw him win at Eldora back in the 80's, at the 4-crowns. I believe it was in a dirt champ car, he may have won the sprint portion also. He can drive wingless, no problem.
BTW, you know I was joking in the other thread right?
David.

Re: Question About Steve Kinser
 

Yea i do. Gotta laugh out of me. :5: haha. Just being as young as i am i never heard of him running or doing well in a Non Wing Sprint Car. Thanks

Re: Question About Steve Kinser
 

He was very good.Won some early 4 crown features starting from the back.Won a CRA feature at Eldora in 1990,against some of the best in the country.McSpadden,Hewitt,Dave Blaney ,Haud,Shuman,Rip Williams,Terry Sheppard among others were in that field if I remember correctly.I sure other board members will chime in.

Re: Question About Steve Kinser
 

I watched Steve Kinser win the very first Hulman Hundred on the Indy Mile in May of '81. He drove a Champ Dirt car #75 owned by Gary Stanton as I recall.

Re: Question About Steve Kinser
 

he won at eldora driving for johnny vance from dayton, oh.

Re: Question About Steve Kinser
 

When the WoO started, it was non-wing.

Re: Question About Steve Kinser
 

He is the only driver to win the Knoxville National - both non-wing & winged.

Re: Question About Steve Kinser
 

He started both NW and Wing as WOO's at startup was promotors choice. Karl wold not put him in the car till he turned 18 and a lot of drivers at the time did not get anything but their own ride till that age or older. I believe they ran paragon for half a season then hit the WoO trail

The last time I think he ran a Sprint NW was about the 92 (Correct me on year) CRA Midwest tour in which THE EARL of Eldora put up ten grand. Steve showed up among some ribbing he'd been taking, WON THE RACE and said "I PROVED to you I can win* now "IM DONE WITH IT" To my knowledge he hasn't since.

Quite honestly, Yeah there is some safety involved with the wings but if you ask, Like Haudenchild said this year at LBurg. "THERE ISN'T ENOUGH MONEY NON WING to make it worth it. But I love to run em" He used to run several CRA, Four Crowns and big events like Mopar Million and WON IT! Other Non wing staples are doing the wing thing because they make more for 7th in ASCS than they do for 3rd in USAC

Re: Question About Steve Kinser
 

Actually it was both....ran some with wings & nonwings. It depended on where they was at in the country....and don't forget some WoO pavement races...(ok very little but hey!:) )

Re: Question About Steve Kinser
 

It was promotor's choice :)

Re: Question About Steve Kinser
 

He has also done reasonably well in a Midget, having a 4th at the Chili Bowl in 96?

Re: Question About Steve Kinser
 

My bad...Doug Wolfgang also won the Nationals both wing & nonwing.

---------- Post added at 06:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:24 PM ----------

I'm not saying that's not true.....but he won the first ever WoO championship back in 78.......it would be kinda hard to do that if he only ran a half of season..?

Re: Question About Steve Kinser
 

I believe the first year for Winged Nationals was 1980. I distinctly remember over the years being told and reading that Shuman was the last NW winner. That makes Wolf the only one to do both.

Back at WoO startup there were a variety of Full up sprint cars, CRA was running a mix of roadsters and sprints, Posse ran everything from plywood wings to cars with NERF WINGS and both. It really was kinda Run what you Brung. Posse also ran a lot of BIG BLOCK SPRINTERS as well.

Chuck, thinking winged helps a driver NWed in smoothness and seeing things as the speeds are faster and thinks NW teaches drivers how to drive side by side, Drive over your head and keep it under control (Winged to me has just become so (HAVE TO BE PERFECT or you got no chance)

---------- Post added at 06:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:34 PM ----------

Whens his B day?, Could have been 77 :) Im not taking away from Steve by saying the first year wasn't a huge draw for most to make EVERY SHOW. Wolf picked and choose as did Ferkel and others. Bounced checks seemed to be quite common. :18:

Re: Question About Steve Kinser
 

When the WoO first started it wasn't a single actual touring series. in 78' every race that payed $2000 to win ( i think) counted for WoO points. So there could be 2-3 WoO races on the same night.

Re: Question About Steve Kinser
 

Steve dominated at Haubstadt in Karl's #11 after he got the ride after Dick Gaines got hurt bad at Champaign,IL. It was all non-wing then and Sammy would come up most Sunday nights in the Sparks Electric car so it was grand times at the speedway watching those two cut their racing teeth there. Steve got a late start racing as he was at least 20 before he even started. I think Flat Out magazine had an article on Steve an issue or two ago that went into some of the early days. I remember he didn't kick butt in his own car but became a terror after learning how to drive under Karl's tutelege. He wadded up a bunch of cars while learning his craft but learn it he did!! Tom

Re: Question About Steve Kinser
 

I was at Knoxville in 1980 and it was wingless. Steve won the Nationals in 1980 and it was held on Sunday afternoon after it was fogged out on Saturday night.

I believe that 1981 was wingless also but after the Gary Scott fatal wreck in May of 1982, wings became mandatory at Knoxville.

CRA became a full time sprint car club in the mid 1950's, the roadsters faded into history after that.

http://www.stevehardin.com/genemarderness/unserjr2.jpg

http://www.stevehardin.com/genemarde...kville1981.jpg

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...2vMYK6NeT5_bEL

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...2vMYK6NeT5_bEL

I believe Steve's website has a complete list of his wins. www.SteveKinser.com Click on the tab with his name on it.
Posted via Mobile Device

Re: Question About Steve Kinser
 

So the answer to the specific question is: Yes, Steve Kinser raced--and Won-- in Traditional Sprints.
The answer to the unasked speculative question as to how good he would have been as a Traditional Sprint Car Racer had he run it full-time is that he would certainly have been among the absolute greatest ever with Opperman or Foyt or Hinnershitz or Horn. Right where he is now: on Mt Rushmore. His awe-inspiring ability would have assured that he had his pick of the best cars, and, frankly, he would have crushed most fields. He is that rarest of racers in his accomplishments: The Incomparable. His career numbers are obviously unapproachable, and the amount of wins and earnings places him beyond the realm of standard compare. There is nothing in his achievements to suggest that he would have enjoyed lesser success without the foil. Particularly if Karl was wrenching for him.
Say what you will about all others at their peak, but at HIS peak (which lasted an unparalleled number of years), Steve Kinser was as great as great gets.

Re: Question About Steve Kinser
 

Steve in the famous Karl Kinser 11 at Topeka 1978
Look ma, NO WING MOUNTS!

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/2...1978topeka.jpg

Re: Question About Steve Kinser
 

Glory days. Look at the crowd. Good stuff, Panama.

Re: Question About Steve Kinser
 

Here is some information about Steve you might not remember. Steve ran a sprint car for Bob Thompson for 2 years before Karl Kinser and he was 21 that summer.Orange and black number 53.I know he won Bloomington Championship and ran Pargon, Kokomo,Haubstat and Lawrencebug. Non wing and he was awesome.Destroyed the first one at Champange at the end of the season on the 1/2 mile and destroyed the second one at Springfield on the mile the second year at the end of the season.I believe it was 75 and 76.
THOSE WERE THE DAYS

Re: Question About Steve Kinser
 

I remember that 53. He also had probably one of his hardest hits at Kokomo in the 11 nonwing . Over the turn three wall. Landed right in front of us. Had a big egg on his forehead and concussion. He never came back on a regular Sunday show after that I believe. They don't call him the King for nothing. I'll never forget the time Steve and his dad both raced together at Kokomo in the 11's. Awesome!

Re: Question About Steve Kinser
 

Steve raced USAC sprints for a short while in the 1970s, about 1977. He won 11 World of Outlaw features in 1978, including his first at Eldora in May or June. If memory serves me correctly, Steve ran at Bloomington one night under an assumed name and caught a three-race suspension from USAC. A photographer who knew both Steve and the driver he was impersonating shot photos and sent them to a racing paper, where they were published. (NO IT WASN'T ME.)
It was about that time Dick Gaines got hurt and, as they say, the rest is history. While working in Princeton, Ind., in 1979 and the early '80s, I saw Steve race on several occasions at Haubstadt on Sunday nights without a wing. He also ran USAC in the early 1980s, without a wing.

Jim Morrison

Re: Question About Steve Kinser
 

It was Paragon and he ran under the name Mark Todd.It was his first feature win at Paragon and he came back to racing local.Bob Thompson took care of the USAC car also,It was 69 and owned by Elmer Smith I believe.

Re: Question About Steve Kinser
 

I don't remember seeing him win here , but I did see him run non-wing sprint car and Turkey night in a midget at Ascot in the 80's

Re: Question About Steve Kinser
 

So basically, YES, Steve Kinser is the best and will always be the best damn sprint car driver (no matter whats on top of it or not) to ever walk this planet!!!

Re: Question About Steve Kinser
 

amen !!

Re: Question About Steve Kinser
 

Elmer Smith from Martinsville? Bobby Smith's Dad? Wow I had no idea.

Re: Question About Steve Kinser
 

Vukie's recollection of the Gary Scott tragedy brings up for me, a real irony. I was at Knoxville the very next Saturday night program after Gary died -- Bob Trostle - who had great influence at that time - had told Ralph Capitani that if the wings didn't come on, he for one would not come back. So when that Saturday rolled around and the wing cars came out for hot laps - several long time fans just got up and left in disgust. Now, while the worm is turning just a bit, if it isn't winged sprint cars at Knoxville on Saturday night the regular crowd isn't all that interested.

Re: Question About Steve Kinser
 

Watch for a story about Steve in the next issue of the Hawkeye Racing News. Also, there's one on Doug Clark, the Knoxville flagman.
Jim Morrison

Re: Question About Steve Kinser
 

Sorry to sharp shoot you quick change but Kenny Weld was the first one to win with both wings and non-wings, 1973 was the first wing nationals till 1981.

Re: Question About Steve Kinser
 

car 49 elmer mayhew from danville ill in usac

Re: Question About Steve Kinser
 

Hey Duke,
Is this the car?
This 'IS" Steve at Salem in 1977
Not a great picture, but HELL it was probably taken with a Kodak Instamatic and it is a 31 year old picture.

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9...esalem1977.jpg

Here is a better one of Ol Bob at Salem in the Jerry Sheilds sprinter

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/606...rsalem1977.jpg

Re: Question About Steve Kinser
 

There was a little race on the Springfield Mile back in 82 that was USAC vs. the Outlaws. The guys ran heats in sprints and dirt champ cars. The feature was in dirt champs. I remember Steve was hanging it out there pretty good in the big car. Danny Smith won one of the races in the Kenny Rogers car. Hewitt won the hundred lapper at the end. I have an old Open Wheel where Earl Baltes said he saw Steve Kinser drive the best race he had ever seen, in a dirt champ car.

Re: Question About Steve Kinser
 

Panama you have some great pics. I'd like to get my hands on them. Steve is the best ever. They don't call him "THE KING" for nothing. He is.

Re: Question About Steve Kinser
 

you are right about the 49 car. I'm old and forget somethings

Re: Question About Steve Kinser
 

I'm all for non-wing stuff, but from what I know of that time period at Knoxville going to the wings was probably the right move. If you've heard any of the details of Scott's wreck or the Darryl Dawley / Roger Larson double fatal, they were not pretty to see. I think in Dave's first book there's a chapter in there about Trostle and he states he'd seen 10 guys killed at Knoxville in a something like a 15- or 20-year span.

With today's safety improvements, I reckon things might be a lot better now if they took the wings off on a regular basis, but back then Knoxville was a widowmaker even worse than it is now.

Re: Question About Steve Kinser
 

In Wolfgang's book he talks about pulling Darryl's severed hand off the header... crazy stuff.