Car counts at Angell Park
 

What are everyone's thoughts about the car counts at Angell Park. I saw some shows this summer before I left that were very good, but the car count was not that good (18-20) cars. I saw the results from Sunday with just 14 cars.

Angell Park is one of the few things that I miss about Wisconsin. I absolutely love that place, but I am concerned about the car count.

Re: Car counts at Angell Park
 

Badger had only 12 cars at Dodge County two weeks ago. UMARA is just as bad. I don't see any big improvement for the rest of 2009.

Re: Car counts at Angell Park
 

Counts may be low but there has been some great racing. Week in and week out the features have been super competitive with the likes of Loyet, Hatton, Hess and Kuhn on a regular basis. If you are a true midget fan now is not the time to stay away.

Re: Car counts at Angell Park
 

Could Badger ever try something like get together with POWRI and just trade weeks? One week at Sun Prairie and the next week somewhere where POWRI runs that's within everybody's travelling distance? Just throwing that out there, i haven't put any thought into it so don't :20: at me to much.

Re: Car counts at Angell Park
 

Poweri races are 5-6 hours away from Milwaukee. I dont think many guys from up here would be up for it.







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Re: Car counts at Angell Park
 

I find it interesting that midget racing was born during the great depression and is seeing its worst year for car counts during this period of really bad economic times.

Re: Car counts at Angell Park
 

I have attempted to address this subject over the past several years many, many times... not Angell Park or Badger in particular, but midget racing across the country. I've lost count of the dozens of individuals on this forum and another one who have tried to cut my head off for even bringing up the matter and that includes race fans, midget org officials, midget team owners who are loyal to the big box org and many others. Also I've read reply after reply on this message board that "you can't do this" and "you can't do that" over and over and over again.

I hate to really ruin everybody's day but what I've been predicting is here today, now... like the present.

The days of universal rules for midgets have past, folks. Almost all the teams in this country DO NOT travel outside their regional area, so get over thinking that a race team from St. Louis is going to show up in Wisconsin or Indianapolis. NOT GONNA HAPPEN!!!!!!!!!!!!! Case in point: Last night the big box org had a midget race in Indiana and there was ONE... spelled O-N-E midget that showed up that does not regularly support the big box series. Repeat: ONE!!! So.. All the fans and midget org officials are afraid to step out of the box and create sensible rules for one car. How stupid is that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let's make this short and to the point: The last statement I read in print from the big box midget org was that they have no interest in changing their policies regarding the costs of operating a midget team. The sooner all the other midget orgs stop following the big box org and start coming up with some hard core solutions.... maybe just start over with a clean piece of paper, then midget racing has a chance to survive. Otherwise, the only place you're going to see anything that looks like a midget will be a once a year happening in Oklahoma.

Don Moore
Owner of three soon to be museum piece midgets

Re: Car counts at Angell Park
 

Midget racing didn't really explode until after WWII. So many of the men who came back from the war were former pilots and such and they found something that could give them that feeling as well as put money in their pockets.

Car counts are bad everywhere, with the exception of ARDC and Poweri(for the most part). I think the sport faces many head winds. The motor costs, but not just the initial costs but the never ending advancement of the engines to where they need constant updating and rebuilds and at least around here; the non-wing sprint scene is so strong that it makes midget racing a tough sell.

Me personally; I really enjoy the midgets. In many ways; I don't see the sport as "broken" as it seems, but it has a negative vibe right now.

Take last night: 20 Cars at Vernon seems like a bad count, but add 10-12 cars and it becomes a "good field" Without looking at the car entry list last night; I can think of 8 local cars that I know weren't there. Not including any of the Poweri or Badger guys that used to try and support these races.

So many people want to totally blow up what is there and start over, but I think Poweri,ARDC, and NAMARS when Jack Calabrase owned it prove that if a group of people get in charge that care about the sport, then the racers will try and support them.

Only time will tell.

Re: Car counts at Angell Park
 

Midget racing was big right before WW II, but it was huge after the war. I've read that at one point it was the 5th largest spectator sport in the United States.

---------- Post added at 08:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:28 AM ----------

They should have listen to Fulper. :5::10:

I wonder what the car counts are for the All Star Midgets these days? :22:

Re: Car counts at Angell Park
 

I didn't even see Don's post before posting mine, so I am in no way trying to argue or anything of that nature.

Don I am not in any way shape or form trying to disagree that midget racing is struggling right now. That said; if I stand in my shop and scream it's six o' clock; I am going to be right twice a day. If for ten years I say something is going to decline; I am eventually going to be right. Just like if I sit here proclaim something will turn around: it eventually will.

I am not a doom and gloomer. I remember when USAC had real miserable car counts in the early 90's when the clutches were used.(I was and still am a believer that startes and clutches were the right direction) I also remember how NAMARS did their own thing and had great counts and then 16th street came along and car counts went through the roof again. MARA was running then, but their car counts weren't that huge. 20-25 cars.

As of now; there is no incentive for anyone to put a midget together in the Indiana, Ohio,Michigan, and Northern Illinois region because they won't be able to race it without long tows.(I realize the the IRS series offers a market of sorts) If we could get the Indiana tracks to run 4 shows a month it would be big, but I understand why they don't.

I don't know why Don didn't go last night and it's none of my business. It's his toys to do with what he wants. I like and respect Don.

I hope Don will be at Jacksonville this weekend. The sport is better off when his white #10's come off the trailer.

Me personally; I would rather be at the track adding to the sport I care about than sitting at home dicussing it's demise.

Re: Car counts at Angell Park
 

Baue, you're going to get me going here and I need to stay off these forums! lol

I'm really not interested in discussing USAC midget racing. But to answer your last post, here are my thoughts about running or not running last night. Only one team in the United States decided to run against the 16-17 multi million dollar teams racing for $2500 that support the USAC Midget Series, so apparently those that did not show up last night are thinking alike. Let's put it this way, if they thought they could win, they would have been there. Otherwise, it's a waste of money and time. Enough said. By Mr. Miller's last published statement, he seems to be very happy with his midget racing, so there's no need to discuss his business here.

Secondly, you can label me anyway you chose, but I have posted over and over and over again on these boards sensible solutions to improving midget racing. And I have offered the use of my two dirt midgets for testing purposes. All of this has gone nowhere. In the meantime, car counts are dwindling near the low teens and in some case in the single digits. Wishing my cars will come out of the garage is not a solution. Talking about cars counts in the 90's doesn't solve a thing. Going after each others personality is not getting anywhere either. Talking about me and my trailer size doesn't solve anything.

I will start with two simple solutions:

1. When USAC and POWRi begin to pump and check engines, they will begin to establish some credibility that they are serious about improving midget racing and that their rule book is valid. It's my understanding that BADGER recently checked engines at one of their race meets. Hurray!!!!! Someone is checking for once. So for starters, the midget orgs need gain some credibility by enforcing the current rules. Once the current rules are enforced, then we have a basis to work from.

2. We can debate tires, wheels, engines etc etc till the cows come home, but these are almost 100% opinion. We need controlled tests with third party drivers/owners and look at the scientific data for answers, not somebody's opinion.

I will be in Medina, Ohio this weekend showing my AKC Boxer dog, Tommy. I don't see my midgets coming out of the garage anytime soon.

Re: Car counts at Angell Park
 

Very few of the Powri guys will run at Sun Prairie. Part of it is the travel time for a lot of the guys that are based close to St. Louis, but part is also due to the mystic of Angell Park in that you have to have a big motor and th track is hard on equipment.

Re: Car counts at Angell Park
 

Don;

I think any discussion about the present and future has to involve the past as the past indicates the future.

Best of luck to Tommy this weekend.

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Could they find a track in Illinois to run at?

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One of the beat tracks I've ever been to big car count's or not!!!

Re: Car counts at Angell Park
 

I am sure that there are any number of tracks in northern Illinois that would be good, but I still don't know if the results would be any better. Loyet, Hess, Ray and Altig were the only regulars I have seen bounce from Powri to Badger on any regular basis.

Re: Car counts at Angell Park
 

I wondered if they picked a track in northern Illinois and then use Sun Prairie and trade off every week. Combine POWRI and Badger and switch tracks every Sunday, or even Saturday maybe?

Re: Car counts at Angell Park
 

I'd cast a vote for Lasalle Speedway. It's right on 39 and I think would be a great track for midgets. Plus I would be right in the center of the 2 tracks.

Re: Car counts at Angell Park
 

Once again a bunch of hogwash from DonMoore10. I emailed him proof that USAC checked engines complete with dates, locations, car numbers, everything from my notes during my tenure with USAC.

When presented with the proof he stated his computer wouldn't open the file. So I put the information in the text of the email instead of an attachment. I recieved no comment that was relevant to the information I provided. Diatribe all diatribe.

On another note I will say it's nice to see DonMoore10 feeling well enough to give the forum a little workout. Nice to have you around again DonMoore10. :6:

Re: Car counts at Angell Park
 

Post the date and year on this forum that an engine was checked by POWRi and/or USAC. Not interested in the dark ages when you work for them. Tell where and when in the last few years or how about this season.