Whats wrong with General Motors
 

Please don't think I am ranting here although it may sound like it. I have a GMC Sonoma with the 3rd door. The door handle on the 3rd door recently broke and thinking this was an unusual occurrence I went to the dealership to get a new one. This piece was not a complicated part and was made of a sturdy plastic. I was charged w/tax 61.00 which I thought was quite high. Didn't say anything just paid for it. Went home installed it myself. Later on I decided to check and see if everyone was that high. Of course I go to Ebay not expecting to find one but there were several for sale, so this was obviously a weak point with this truck. The new part was identical to the old one, no changes. GM did not improve this part at all despite it's weakness. Back to Ebay, There were several for sale between 16.00 and 21.00 including shipping and OEM. You could also buy aftermarket that were even cheaper and also just the simple handle (broken part) for a mere $2.95 probably Chinese made. So GM makes no effort to fix a weakness and the dealership decides to pay off their mortgage with my business. Lesson learned.... ebay for everything

Re: Whats wrong with General Motors
 

That is what happened to make them be in this situation, they made cars they were designed to make it through the warrenty period with no issues and then all bets were off. I have a 2001 Malibu, so far I have replaced.

Wheel hubs (the parts that has the wheel bearings and bolts to attach the wheels) 4 times at about 90-100 a piece for parts.
lower intake manifold gaskett, first time was 600 dollars, second time was 500.
new radio after the first two stopped playing cds, now have an aftermarket radio
too many times on the brake pads.

I never go to the dealer for work, always friends or garages. I probably spent close to 2,000 on parts that normally shouldn't go out. And guess what, they are all common issues. Also GM has this wonderfull idea on my car, they thought "hey, lets get rid of the tranmission dipstick and make it so the owner has to bring it back to us to check the level".


On the other had, at one point, my mom had a 1991 toyota Previa for about a couple years. It was given to us with 255k miles. We did have to replace and repair some parts (steering rack, rear calipers repaired, new front struts), but after 255k I figure it was worn out parts. We later sold the van with 275k miles on it and it still runs today (sold it because a mechanic said it was about to rust through on the frame).

I will say the newer cars are a lot better designed, but GM has burned too many bridges. I only have a few cars that I would consider owning made by GM.

Re: Whats wrong with General Motors
 

http://gmfactsandfiction.com/category/quality/

If you want the TRUTH about the World's Leading Automaker, log on to www.gmfactsandfiction.com.

Re: Whats wrong with General Motors
 

My last 3 vehicles have been GM and I can say the only complaint whatsoever I have is their power window switches. 1993 GMC Safari, Ran like a top, Was in very good condition, Had 170,000 miles when a civic failed to yield and I made a horse shoe out of it. Could have actually been fixed fairly easily too.

1995 Buick Lesabre, I gave it to my brother at 175,000 miles, still going strong at 200,000

1997 Pontiac Bonneville SSEI. Bet I got another ten years of quality car on this one :) at 81,000.

Dad has a 2005 GMC safari with over 200,000 and he don't blink a eyelash taking it on a trip to Canada, Wyoming or wherever and neither woujld I.

IMHO Great products, Stricker is a shock if yiou buy new but Don't bat a eyelash at buying one used with 80-90 thousand miles if it has been cared for. Brakes, waterpump, alternator and its basically a new car :)

Re: Whats wrong with General Motors
 

The TRUTH about my 2004 Impala with 53,000 miles. It has been in the shop four times in the last nine months for defective parts. My extended warranty that I PURCHASED covered it. GM wouldn't have touched it and issued no recalls for the defective parts. And now I have brake rotors that are terribly warped and the car shudders when I hit the brakes and neither the extended warranty nor GM will cover it. The DEALER said this is a common problem and GM knows since 2000 about it and has done nothing.

I really like the car - if I can keep it out of the shop.

I always buy American and often Chevy. But this car has left a bad taste in my mouth and GM doesn't care. I'm not saying this is the case with all GM owners. But I read and I hear that I am not alone with these issues.

Re: Whats wrong with General Motors
 

A fact of life is that parts wear out. every kind of car out there has some sort of inherent problem that the mfg. didn't see coming. true some have more than others. our esteemed main stream media has put down our BIG 3 for years while hardly ever telling us about problems or recalls with foreign made vehicles. And there are 6 people not working being paid by GM for every one that actually goes to work! legacy cost is killing them and that is partly their fault for letting it get to this point...i once sold a chevy van to a freind with 225k on it and he took it to 495,000! a new 350 engine at 90k and 3 transmissions but hey. the body was finally worn out. most of your GM cars will go well over 200,000 with the proper maintenence.

aceace, we sell that same part i think you are talking about for 48.01. we are a 4 line GM dealer. if you buy that through a garage with a tax exempt licence ( or tell them you are a garage and you will pay the tax) you could save $10 or 15 more. i did notice that there is a part-no. change recently on that also. and yes it is a common problem with that cargo door.

Randy Stull

Re: What's Wrong With General Motors
 

I own a 2005 Chevrolet Colorado and I've been very happy with it. I've owned Ford, Dodge and Chevrolet trucks, but this one is my favorite. I would never buy a Dodge again, since I've had numerous issues with the two Dakota's that I've had. Ironically, they've were the same issues, so I was done with Chrysler/Dodge. However, with my wife's ties to Dodge (through her family) we bought a 2008 Dodge Avenger for her, sadly. The car looks great, inside and out, but it's a piece of junk. We've had nothing but problems with it, including everything you could think of, down to the door handles peeling off.

Okay, back to GM. I tend to agree that there are too many brands, still. I'm not sure why Buick wasn't axed before Pontiac. If they can sell Hummer and sell, or do away with Saturn, it'll be a step in the right direction. Along with getting rid of Buick and Pontiac, this can only help, I'd think. Finally, why do they need so many SUV-type vehicles? They now have Traverse, Equinox, TrailBlazer, Tahoe and Suburban. How about axing one or two of those? The first few that I mentioned, seem like they're quite a bit similar in size. Just a thought. Doing away with other brands will help with my other thought, which was why do they have the same vehicle, but with three brands? For example, the mid-size truck for GM comes in three brands, Chevrolet, GMC and Isuzu. Maybe it's something that isn't an issue, but seems that it could be. Only having Chevrolet and GMC will do away with some of this...hopefully! I'm no expert, but these are just some thoughts that I have rattling around in my head...

Re: Whats wrong with General Motors
 

just because they print it doesn't mean it's true!:confused:
if the goverment will lie to you what make's you think they wont?

Re: Whats wrong with General Motors
 

Whats wrong with General Motors? Well, IMO... the problem they have is the union contracts. I really hate to say that too. I have always been in favor of unions or worker rights. When you're trying to compete with companies with no union involvement, it sure makes it tough $$$ wise. Union workers earn more money and benefits and that costs the company more to operate.

Don't get me wrong, I think people getting higher pay and better benefits is great.... but I think it comes at a price that may be to high to compete in our world today.

The solution... SOCIALISM :5:;)

BTW... I've owned either a GM or Dodge vehicle all my life. I currently own a 2008 GMC Sierra Truck.:thumb


The below information is straight from the UAW website. http://www.uaw.org/organize/advantage.cfm

Union workers earn more
Wages and benefits for the average union worker in the private sector totaled $36.65 per hour in September 2008, compared to $25.92 an hour for the typical non-union worker.

Wages and salaries higher for union workers
In September 2008, the average union worker in the private sector earned $22.77 per hour in wage and salary income, while the average non-union worker earned $18.70 per hour. That's a union advantage of $4.07 per hour, or $8,466 per year for a full-time, full-year worker.

... But benefits are the biggest union advantage
Benefits, though, are where the biggest union advantage lies. The average union worker in the private sector receive $13.88 per hour toward their benefits package while their non-union counterpart receives only $7.21 per hour.

Retirement benefits more widespread for union workers
After years of service, workers deserve a secure retirement. Unfortunately, only 51 percent of non-union workers receive retirement benefits through their employer, through either a traditional pension or a 401(k) account. In stark contrast, 86 percent of union workers have employer-provided retirement benefits.

Only about half (52 percent) of non-union workers receive health care benefits through their employer. That compares with 79 percent of union workers.

Union advantage holds across occupations and industries

Blue-collar workers in manufacturing enjoy a substantial advantage from union representation -- but so do workers in non-manufacturing settings. In fact, the Bureau of Labor Statistics' report, "Union Members in 2008," shows that the union advantage holds across occupations and industries.

For example, union workers in protective service jobs (such as security guards and corrections officers) earn $990 per week, compared with $620 for non-union workers. The union premium also exists in office and administrative support occupations where union workers earn $749 per week compared to $585 per week for non-union workers.

Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics

Re: Whats wrong with General Motors
 

Despite my being a little upset about the door handle. I have generally had good luck with GM. One way to solve GM's problems would be to make it so people that hire in at 20 yrs of age can't retire until they are 62 unless disabled rather than the current 30 years and out w/full benefits. GM is paying retirement and benefits to so many it has driven up the cost of cars way up as someone said earlier. Just an idea.

Re: Whats wrong with General Motors
 

Another nickles worth, from the peanut gallery! I worked at Cummins engine Co for several years, got all the way up to Exempt, from the bottom. I was smarter than that, but I had a lot of encouragement to move up, that's what the Company likes, people with goals. Nothing against how it turned out, stuff happens, and it probably worked out the way our maker had it planned, had I stayed hourly, I would have retired with more money, and would have made more per hr, but I chose to move up. When I was let go, I called it fired, in 1985, at 47 yrs old, I didn't know what I was going to do, but it worked out, it probably wouldn't today, but I was lucky, I guess. I'm getting to my point, having been thru this, and now having been thru owning my own business, I have a lot more respect for how business works, I feel a large part of the problem, is not what the employees are paid, but how much the people above them are paid, plus all the stockholders want all they can get, so everything goes up, food and living costs, everything is tied now, to the price of a barrel of oil, which for the most part, is all profit, for the seller. When I had my own business, I was told by people in their own small business, that if you could, at the end of the year, show a profit, the money you could stuff in your bluejeans, or save, any thing above 3% was a good year, 6% was outstanding. I don't see big business following those guidelines, as they did 30 yrs ago. I also feel GM, has too many, of the same product, but with different badges, they now have more of the same product, than they have colors to paint them, and as far as dropping Pontiac, I don't consider that a good move, why not drop that same vehicle, but with the Buick, or Chevy badge, too many of the same thing, drop Saturn, who'd miss that, I think it boils down to greed, from all around, and all over, if people can't be paid enough to afford just the necessities, there's no need to produce very much of anything, that only the rich can afford, because they usually don't buy anyway, they rent, or lease. I sure don't know the answer, but the way it looks like we're headed isn't it. By the way, I drove GM stuff for years, but I've also had some Ford products, right now I have a 1997 F350, crewcab diesel dually, with 400k on it, and still going strong, and an 08 Fusion, and dearly love both of them. Bob

Re: Whats wrong with General Motors
 

THEY DON'T MAKE FORDS!!!!!!!!!!!! I HAVE A 1978 E-250 VAN 351 WITCH I OVERHAULED 2 TIMES IT HAS OVER ONE MILLION 230000 MILES AND STILL RUNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! USE VAVOLINE OIL CHAMPION PLUGS STP FILTERS!:applaud::thumb

Re: Whats wrong with General Motors
 

Thanks, Duke, for bringing that to my attention, that thought hadn't crossed my mind, but i'd count it as a good one! Bob

---------- Post added at 03:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:36 PM ----------

Duke, can't agree with you on the Valvoline oil tho, I was a loyal Valvoline user, till they dropped the Indy 500, so I went on a one man boycott, started using Castrol, and haven't looked back, several others did also. Bob

Re: What's Wrong With General Motors
 

Number one selling FORIEGN Car in China. BUICK LESABRE

Re: Whats wrong with General Motors
 

Sorry to say but I owned 4 chevy 3/4 ton 4x4 trucks and all 4 were the biggest pieces of SH$#T ever built. I went threw 4 transmissions 2 transfer cases 1 rear end 9 front locking assemblies and the bed fell clean off once. No I wasn't out beating them either at that time I also owned 2 Ford and 1 Dodge truck and used them in the same way as the Chevys. We were in the Reforestation business at that time working for the US forest service. All of those things happened in the first 50,000 miles. The last straw for me was when the transmission on the truck that I drove went out and I called the dealer to come and get it, when I told him where it was they refused to honor the warranty because I was on a stone service road and being off road my warranty was invalid. All the roads we traveled on were stone and maintained on a regular basis. I took all 4 trucks to the Ford dealer traded them for 4 new Fords and never had 1 single problem in 155,000 miles. The stone road thing was absolutely ridiculous that means that 90% of the vehicles in Indiana have voided there warranty. I feel bad for those people who are losing there jobs but GM has made there bed now they can sleep in it. GM will go belly up the union contracts with GM will be broken then they can start over on the TAX PAYERS DIME.

Re: Whats wrong with General Motors
 

FORD HAS A BETTER IDEAL! BEST TRUCKS BUILT!:applaud:

Re: Whats wrong with General Motors
 

I sent Hubler an email about my 3rd door hinge, they emailed back and said they couldn't compete with aftermarket parts BUT they admitted to overcharging me. Said I should have been charged about $10 less. Bring my receipt down for a refund. They also said that there was a new part number where this piece had been improved and I could exchange it if I wanted too. Of course its already installed, so I will just get the $10 and be happy and spend it getting into a race somewhere.

Re: Whats wrong with General Motors
 

What's wrong with GM is the same thing that's wrong with most of the other big American companies. They are run by lawyers and bean counters, instead of by folks who love the industries they are in. If GM had been consistently run by "car guys" for the past few years, they would never have made some of the bone-headed decisions they made, never mind the bad cars they made.

I had three Chevies in the 70s & 80s. Each had well over $200,000 miles on it when I sold it. What more could you ask?

Re: Whats wrong with General Motors
 

Subject: Third Door Hard to Open and/or Handle Breakage (Adjust Lock Rods)


Models: 1996-2002 Chevrolet and GMC S/T Extended Cab Pickup Models (S-10, Sonoma)




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Condition
Some customers may comment that the third door is hard to open and/or the door handle may be broken.

Cause
The lock rods may be improperly adjusted.

Correction
Adjust the lock rods using the following procedure:

Remove the door trim.
Release both lock rod rods from the lock rod retainers.



Position the upper lock rod first. Refer to arrow in illustration. Position the lock rod in the retainer so that there is 10 to 12 mm (0.39 to 0.47 in) (Approximately 11-12 threads showing) from the end of the lock rod.
Important: Make sure the upper striker is not bound against the latch. If this happens, you must push the door inboard to release the latch. To correct a bound latch, adjust the striker until the striker is centered with the latch.

Position the lower lock rod in the retainer where it rests, usually 5.0 to 6 mm (0.19 to 0.23 in) of threads from the end of the rod after the upper lock rod is locked in place.
Install the door trim.

Re: Whats wrong with General Motors
 

Seadog,

I experienced a similar problem on a 2000 Pontiac. Replaced rotars and the same thing happened. Replaced them again, same story. I finally found that you need to "upgrade" to a different rotar. It is made for police cars and they cost a little more but it has solved my problem. Hope this helps.

Re: Whats wrong with General Motors
 

I have drilled/slotted rotors and while they are warped now (need to get them serviced), but I have had them on my car since I bought it in 2004.

Re: Whats wrong with General Motors
 

If you ever get your tires rotated or wheels removed for any reason. Make sure the mechanic uses a Torque Wrench to manufacturer specs when replacing the wheels. If you do it yourself, Your taking chances. Todays Rotors are Lightweight pieces of crap.

Chuck

Re: Whats wrong with General Motors
 

To me, the 3800 V6 is the best passenger car motor ever made. As long as you change the oil every 3,000 miles, it's a power plant that is bulletproof. I'm on my second 200,000 mile vehicle in a row. The first was an 1986 Bonneville that I gave away with 265,000 mile on it. Currently, my 2003 Regal has 206,000 miles on it. It runs just like it it did @ 39,000 miles and I have no intention of getting rid of it any time soon.

I did find out this week, though, that you should replace the catalytic converter every 200K miles or so.

Jerry

Re: Whats wrong with General Motors
 

i have alway,s had chevy,s or something from the GM line their problem is the same as the orther,s union-union- union i,m all for workers right,s & fair pay BUT overpaying for not enough work being done has never been a money maker... i own a non union trucking company most of my worker,s have been with me a long time i treat them fair -- they treat me fair - we respect each other i provide them with good sound truck,s & trailer,s health-dental-eye ins. pay % of each load the more you run -the more you make BUT WORKING IS THE WHOLE KEY HERE !! being from michigan i,ve spent a good deal of time in all the car factory,s -- working -- moreless working hard has never been high on their list.. !! IMO they were a great thing & needed when they all got started but anymore they protect overpaid-- underworking crybaby,s at one point in time they helped make our country strong -- now they help make this country weak soft i,m lucky i,ve got great HELP and i know it and do my best to treat them as such in return WE MAKE MONEY FOR EACH OTHER!! i stay here in indy and work on race car,s they do their thing and make a good living and i keep up on thing,s from my laptop here ... A HONEST DAY,S WORK for AN HONEST DAY,S PAY is one thing that will never change!!!!!! :6: and if you dont belive me ask some of the cat- people in peoria,il they said the same thing the car people in michigan said THEY WILL NEVER PULL OUT THEY NEED US!!! EMPTY FACTORY,S PAY NOBODY,S BILL,S !!!!!!!!!!!!!!:15:

Re: Whats wrong with General Motors
 

IM on my third :) I will note that the motor never really came into its own until fuel injection. My uncle had a few early 80s V6s that were crap.

---------- Post added at 07:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:26 AM ----------


Seems everyone blames the Union for getting what the company AGREED TO GIVE! Then not covering the cost of doing it.

Won't matter now, The taxpayer is stuck with another 40 billion (When Bankruptcy should have been the first option) and no job is safe.

Re: Whats wrong with General Motors
 

Thank you. I was perusing some automotive forums and read that from some people that said non-OEM rotors are the fix for this pain in the a$$ problem. My car still stops OK, but the whole care shakes. The weird part is that it is OK when I go to work in the morning in stop and go traffic for the first mile. Then when the brakes heat up is when it starts shakin' and quakin'. I'm thinking it could maybe be a stuck caliper piston that may add to the problem.

This is the first car I've ever had with 4 wheel disc brakes and I can say that it has done nothing to endear me to this set up.

Thanks again.:9:

Re: Whats wrong with General Motors
 

Gregg
Are you the blue impala driving like an old man riding with his foot on the brake all over the east side of town, quit two footing it.;) I think this warped rotor issue is common among a lot of american cars. Shakes so bad going down 32 or beechmont hills it'll knock your dentures loose:18:

Re: Whats wrong with General Motors
 

Mine's not blue.

And us old fogies refer to it as "the heel and toe method" as in sports car racing as opposed to "two footing it".:3: And when I go down the 32 hill, I kick it into neutral and let 'er coast all the way down. It usually gets me clean on down to Burger's farm before I have to drop it in drive. Saves gas.:5:

The rotor deal - I had the car six or seven months and never had a rotor problem (had lots of other problems) and then a few weeks ago this suddenly cropped up.:11:

Re: Whats wrong with General Motors
 

All you have to say is VEGA! That disaster cost them any integraty.

Re: Whats wrong with General Motors
 

Anything that was made of steel, in those years, didn't last long, before the termites dissolved them, we musta been trying to use our own steel! Vega wasn't the only one plagued with problems, during those years, I owned several GM's, including the Vega, and I had a lot of them, had a local mechanic, that had developed a method of aligning the front end, that made them a good car, but add one of the aluminum V8's of that era, and you had a good street machine, I built several. Bob

Re: Whats wrong with General Motors
 

We stuck a 350 LT1 In a vega, stuck two 650 holleys on it and camed it to death 11.02 :) If you could keep the wheels on the ground :)

Re: Whats wrong with General Motors
 

Kinda like Ford's Pintos & Mavericks, AMC's Gremlins & Hornets and a whole schitload of other crapboxes from that era!

Re: Whats wrong with General Motors
 

Remember the Cosworth Vega? That was an interesting car. I had one, but my problem was the word Cosworth was not in front of the word Vega.:7:

Re: Whats wrong with General Motors
 

The second car to the right is a cosworth Vega :)
http://beaver.vinu.edu/03-24-2007%20.../IMG_0234.html

Re: Whats wrong with General Motors
 

Yep, but where would all of the mini-stocks come from, if they hadn't built them, my goodness, and some of those were some real bad hombres to, the Gremlin, with a humongus motor, the later, 76 up Vega, with the V8 right outa Detroit, the Pinto, altho very few were produced, with a 289, the Mustang II, and before them, the Falcon V8, lotta small car history from that era. But, we sold all our good steel to the high bidder, and exported it for money, not pride, now we're payin. Bob

Re: Whats wrong with General Motors
 

Don Smith's car collection seems like such a waste to buy a car brand new to let it sit and never drive it again (he has a 2002 Camaro SS with paper plates).

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...h/DSC_1601.jpg

Re: Whats wrong with General Motors
 

Trust me, You'll apreciate seeing that a lot more in 20-30 years than you do now. Seen a Cosworth Vega on the road in 20 years? Heck a 64-72 Mustang is rare on the street or even at car shows unless its a mustang rally and most of them were trailered in.

If Id of known my 69 GTO could get 40 grand. I woudn't have beat it to death and blown it up at 145mph then sold it to another who put a Firebird motor in it and beat it some more.