Too much racing!
 

Sat night where do the fans and cars go? Anderson? Danville? Larenceburg terre haute speedrome and where else? Too much!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Too much racing!
 

I didn't think you could ever have too much racing in Indiana.

Re: Too much racing!
 

Never too much racing Duke. You just have to roll the dice and take your chances

Re: Too much racing!
 

well you do! Thats why your racing sprint cars for $1000 or less to win! Because there are only some many fans with only so much money to spend! Think about it? How many races are you going to this sat?

---------- Post added at 12:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:05 PM ----------

tell me when you have seen a sold out standing room only crowd?

Re: Too much racing!
 

You have a good point from a Promoter/Fan/Usac Caliber race team. The other side to that is, many locals go elsewhere when their is a USAC race at there home track. If you are not one of the best twenty sprint teams, why race. When the locals do race, they are in the way, and if one of them causes a caution everyone complains "why is he even out there?" In terms of tracks like Anderson, and the others that run lower class cars, the promoter is probly doing "charity work" but the low budget racers have a venue to race at every week.

If it wasn't for so many races, the other couple of hundred racers that arn't in the elite twenty would have to go bankrupt to compete, or stay home. Higher purses have never, in the history of racing been proven to offset the cost of racing, it usually leads to more play money for more expensive technology.
Im not saying you are wrong, I just believe their is two distinct sides to the story.

Re: Too much racing!
 

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thumb

Re: Too much racing!
 

The good old days. Oh what a time that was!

Re: Too much racing!
 

That Was Before Mail Order Sprint Cars, Soft Tires(the track couldnt get black even though they were always rough long before the modifieds were tearing them as they are accused!), $40,000 Dollar SBC 3 Degree Motors.


And Drivers Who Were Choosen For Their Talent And Not Because Of Who Sponsored Them!

If You Subtract Races, You End Up With The IRL On Dirt! And Look How Full The Stands Are At The Worlds Greatest Race!

Re: Too much racing!
 

I know where I will be this season...Either at THAT, with SCORA, or back at the Burg to enjoy another race.

Re: Too much racing!
 

I've yet to see empty stands at the burg, N. Vernon(Standing room only) but thats not to say that the promoter is making a living.

Re: Too much racing!
 

It's a damn good problem to have, Duke!

Jerry

Re: Too much racing!
 

I would estimate Haubstadt had 5,000 plus people Saturday night. Very few empty seats.

Re: Too much racing!
 

LETS ASK A TRACK IF THEY WOULD LIKE TO HAVE 10000 OR 5000? OR THE NORMAL 800 T0 1200:thumb

Re: Too much racing!
 

I'm going to agree with Duke, that more now than ever, with the economy the way it is, too many tracks within 200 miles of each other are running sprinters on saturday night.

Re: Too much racing!
 

thank you!

Re: Too much racing!
 

I totally agree Duke, We had it awesome here in the late 80s with 35-40 car counts at Bloom-Burg and even LPS then the bottom dropped out. ONe the cars got to expensive for most teams to race very often. Two, More tracks jumped in on the bandwagon, ATTICA, Limaland, Gas City ect. It wasn't long before even Bloom, Burg and some other tracks had 8-9 cars show up. The fans started to leave. The promotors started running specials only 5000 to win May 2nd! 10000 to win June 15th! Ok the cars came to those. The fans got tired of 20-22 dollar entry fees and I know people who haven't returned to THIS DAY! almost 20 years later.

For the local racer, It makes sense to race closest. I understand that but if a owner has 3 choices within 75 miles for that night $$$ comes into play. I doubt there is too many cars paying their own way but recouping some of the cost Travel, Fuel, Tires has to play into it.

I did a rough tally on just Bloom and Burg (NON WING ONLY) shows and payout to win total.
Burg
15 Non wing shows including MSCS, KIss and USAC
Total WIN PAYOUT
49.500 Rough estimate. Lowest 200 to make show

Bloom
18 Non WIng Shows including MSCS, Kiss and USAC
39.100 rough estimate
Lowest 200 to make show

Kokomo
17 Non WIng SHows including USAC, KIss
32.200
Lowest 155 to make show

Paragon
12.200 Noting you could only win one feature a night four or five of them pay 1000 but I think thats a single feature night ???????
100 Guaranteed.

Re: Too much racing!
 

Thanks Chuck, Thats some interesting numbers. makes me go hmmmm. Thanks,Dave

Re: Too much racing!
 

Damn Chuck, I can't remember Bloomington or a few others only having 8 or 9 show up, must have been before my time:eek: Do you happen to remember who was promoting at Bloomington then???:confused:

Re: Too much racing!
 

Mike Miles is the only promotor I've ever known there. I believe they went to a every other week schedule. The burg had a few other issues like Sewer floods and such but honestly, Some track wing shows durring the early 90s were down to 8-10 cars a few times (Normal shows)

Don't get me wrong, I want all tracks and racers to thrive but choke tracks with low car counts and the fans will leave in droves, Raise the prices too much to raise their purses. Same problem.

Id be interested to see what many of these tracks are paying for championships 1-5 in sprints
I know it wasn't always cash prizes. Chassis makers used to donate chassis' ect for a tracks champion. Perhaps a 50 dollar guarantee over their winnings per show they make the next season. Leather jackets. ECT. The most important thing used to be PRIDE on being a track champion. I hope that never changes.

Chuck

Re: Too much racing!
 

I think this is one of the reasons Haubstadt does not run weekly programs. They get big crowds on their "big" shows, and they get decent car counts and good attendance on their "normal" shows. Just not a weekly program. Maybe time for other tracks to consider this format. It seems to work well here.

Re: Too much racing!
 

Look at TH, back when other promoters ran it, they ran weekly races, now they are run special races. I nevere seen it under the old promotors, but with the new crew, the stands are almost filled every race last season and the infield was jammed full.

Re: Too much racing!
 

Those of us in the Phoenix area having racing withdrawal only two weeks after Manzy closed would love to be able to say we have too much racing. Careful what you complain about! Good thing I am headed east in another three weeks.

Patti

Re: Too much racing!
 

You might have left out the biggest draw of the weekend? With so many places running, the talent pool will be spread out around the state as well as the fan base. This is good for the local racer as they will stand a better chance to make the feature. Bloomington will be fine because they have a large enough fan base (maybe because its the best local show on the planet), Lawrenceburg is in p2 and cutting into the lead ( I do fear for their car count this week, but they will be fine in the future), Put suks , Danville is off to a flying start, Speedrome is having some sort of vintage race, Kokomo on Sunday (another top facility), Anderson with USAC Sprints (on Sat Duke) , plus 4 0r 5 other local shows around the area. So what the hells my point?

The competition for spectators this weekend is high, the biggest racing month starts this weekend, and people have a cash flow problem? NASCAR this weekend is free, they are racing at night, they are in the news this week which adds to the appeal, and they are at Richmond which is one of the few places they put on a decent show. Being a race promoter is tough!!

Re: Too much racing!
 

ARE YOU LOOKING FOR A JOB? I'VE BEEN TO TERRE HAUTE AND THE GRANDSTAND WAS NOT FULL NOR WAS THE INFIELD JAMMED FULL! BS!:kookoo

Re: Too much racing!
 

WHEN YOU HAVE 8 TRACKS IN INDIANA 3 OR 4 IN ILL. AND 7 OR 8 IN OHIO RACING EVERY WEEKEND THATS TOO MUCH SPRINT CAR RACING! WHERE DO THE FANS GO HOW MANY CAN GO TO MORE THEN ONE RACE A WEEK? PLUS A LOT OF TRACKS RACING STOCK CARS EVERY WEEKEND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:headbang

Re: Too much racing!
 

It seems to me, economicly speaking, and considering their current schedules, if there is indeed too much racing then some of these tracks will die off. To me the simple solution is to alternate weeks at some of these tracks. Take tracks that run Fri night... Bloomington and Gas City....... if they alternate weeks car counts would go up. The local racer at Bloomington might not make the haul to GC but a number of teams would. Vice versa. I wish to add I think its great the promoters work with each other not scheduling against big events the other place has. It's a win-win for both places IMO.

Saturday night there is a lot of tracks who run.... Burg, Twin Cities, THAT, Danville, Haubstadt, Waynesfield. There may be more but the point is the Saturday night car count is diluted with all these places running. Speaking of Waynesfield.... I have never been there, but talked to teams who have and they like the place..... if they continue to pay 1000 to win, or on a night with another co-headliner 700 to win, this place will find itself with not enough cars to run.... thus removing itself from the list.

To use Duke's argument on too much racing, it looks to be survival of the fitest. Only the best/strongest supported tracks will be left.

I will also add to this one thing. How many California people have been on this board saying they wish they had it this bad? Tracks are far and few between with long commutes to them. In this area of the country WE HAVE IT MADE!

Re: Too much racing!
 

in so. Ca. At perris there is 4 to 6 million people with in a hour drive of the track! Had about 700 to 800 people sat night for a cra race! What does that tell you? In phoenix manzy! Around 3 or 4 million with in a hours drive! Average less then a thousand a week! Now tell me how can you not sell the track!

Re: Too much racing!
 

Hey Duke! I'll be at Kokomo this Sunday "if they race" because of the weather. PM me and let me know.

Re: Too much racing!
 

ok will do!

Re: Too much racing!
 

Yes, there is only one choice on Sunday and it is KOKOMO!!!!!!:checkered:

Re: Too much racing!
 

I seldom agree with SUPERDUKE, but he raises some valid points. It has all gotten so watered down, the fields are getting smaller.

It's good in life to have choices, but this is going to be the downfall of some Indiana racing if we're not careful.

I like the alternating weekends idea. But with a twist. Maybe the two alternating promoters could co-promote each alternating event, be able to increase the purse at no more cost than they have now (maybe less!), and bring in more fans. It's better to have 2,500 fans at one track than to have 1,200 at two, no? And it's better to have one race at $2,500 to win than two at $1,200 to win, no? More cars. More fans. Bigger purse. What's not to like?

I'm no promoter mind you, I'm just thinkin' out loud here. Go ahead and rip me a new one on this if you must.:(

Re: Too much racing!
 

WRONG! THATS OMOKOK!:applaud:

Re: Too much racing!
 

OSSUCKS,

The Speedrome is having a VARIETY of MIDGETS on SUNDAY AFTERNOON!....and YES...a VOGLER VW with Matt Westfall in it, and Billy Wease in another VW, Charlie Schultz a supermodified driver in a New Munchkin is VINTAGE....The only thing..those cars will be taking on CONTEMPORARY midgets. You don't see that everday...Sondi Eden returns...I am sure more suprises are in store.

The more midget racing the merrier I always say.

Tony Barhorst
www.rumbleseries.com

Re: Too much racing!
 

well i hope all the promoters make money this week!

Re: Too much racing!
 

Just look at all the open wheel racing this weekend in indiana & ohio! Where are you going?

Re: Too much racing!
 

easy, i only have one choice EASTBAY :2:

Re: Too much racing!
 

You and I are in the same boat. I have ONE choice Friday night (WilliamsGrove) and ONE on Saturday night (Lincoln)....:20:

Re: Too much racing!
 

that's why we have a hard time relating to this being a problem:3:

you get two choice's? lucky bAS#$%D

(duke i do understand your point though )

Re: Too much racing!
 

Now you have a choice of THAT and Kokomo.

Re: Too much racing!
 

I started attending races at Terre Haute in 1967, and I don't remember them ever having weekly races.