To Kevin Briscoe
 

I would like to ask you a question about racing and money. With all the questions now being asked about admission prices pit passes pay down in the features. tire rules and on and on.......................
I was at a Navy base in Maryland and went to a track called Potomac Speedway in Budds Creek. And there was a driver that won alot of races at that track. His name was Ronnie McBee after a year that he won just about every Friday night and won the track championship.The following year he only showed up about once a month and won of course. One night after the races I got a chance to talk to him, we sit down and talked for a couple of minutes and I ask him why he did not race there every Friday like he did in the past and win the $500 to win purse a easy task for him at that that time....he looked at me and said you know this whole thing is really not about money......... and then he got up and left. Ronnie McBee died in a very freakish non racing related accident. My question to Mr. Briscoe is this what the heck was he talking about, money seams to be the only thing everybody talks about now days. I know you have drivren for alot of years and trust your opinion.

Richard Murray

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

( This is the problem when you post a thread addressed exclusively to one reader ... he doesn't show up to answer , everyone else reads the post but will feel they cannot intrude on your private post ... maybe not a great idea , huh ? )

I'm responding for this reason ... The track that you speak of , Potomac Speedway in Budds Creek , Maryland , I raced at in the early 70's ( 70-71-72 ) , and I can recall Ronnie Mc Bee and others there in '78 - '79 and , as you said , winning on a regular basis. You were obviously there at the Naval Air Test Center , Lexington Park , better known as " Pax River " , right ?

I can remember Ronnie still racing in the '80's and I'm sure that when you didn't see him at Potomac , he was racing at Hagerstown or Selinsgrove ... he was branching out in the latter years. To this day there is still a Memorial Race in Ronnie's honor at a couple of tracks in Maryland.

I do not recall the circumstances of his death or what year it happened ? Please offer what you can recall ... I remember Ronnie very well while living and racing in Maryland for many years. Your post brings back some pretty neat memories of some "southern maryland good 'ol boys".

Paul Gray

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

Thank you for your response. Yes ! I was at the Navy Test Pilot School at Patuxent River....You know.... you are right I am very wrong in addressing this post to only Kevin Briscoe, Ronnie McBee's memory should be shared to all.But I know Mr. Briscoe is very out spoken about money and racing and stuff like that I just wanted to know if he had fun racing was it always about money and and if he got passed or passed somebody was he thinking that is another + or- 50 bucks just asking...... When Ronnie McBee told me it was not about the money I thought he was crazy and I did not understand what he was saying. I drove a race car only one time so I don't know what a driver... feels about things like this I did die in a plane crash once.... but I am sure all people have different thoughts about things like this. Ronnie McBee was electrocuted while at his job working on power lines... what year I am not sure early 80's....Sorry to Kevin Briscoe.. I did not mean to put you on the spot like this I just thought you might be the best person to answer this question on this message board.



Richard Murray

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

Have you stopped to consider, that Kevin hasn't shown up to reply due to the fact he is camping at The Burg, racing in fun fest, with no computer? Don't intend to sound so short, but I respect Kevin among others very much and had to say something.:briscoe:

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

The reason why Kevin has not responded to this yet...He has been at FunFest in Lawrenceburg all weekend.

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

YES.... after I posted this I thought about that. I did not know if he would be staying all 3 days.......sorry.

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

FOR4 you are right from a drivers perspective it is not about the money. Most of us would race for peanuts. We as drivers are there just to compete and win. Drivers race just as hard for the 500 at Paragon as we did for the 10,000 at Lawrenceburg it is just our nature. For some it is about winning others just the pure excitement of steering it around the race track. But unfortunatly it takes money to own and operate a sprint car so at some point it becomes about the money. That is why there are so many different forms of racing from bombers to NASCAR, budget determines where you will race. But you know what there may be a NASCAR champion in the bomber race but just cant afford to go to the next step. That is why I respect every class and every driver just because they are not in a sprint car doesnt mean they cant drive it just means they cant afford it. I learned from my school that there are a alot of good drivers that dont get to race anything. They were fans that had $395.00 but couldnt afford a car. Sorry but I got off the subject. I will give you an example from our team and why from a team aspect not the drivers it has to be about the money.

Racing gets more expensive every year. Not only the racing but the travel to get there goes up every year. Not all teams are blessed with big sponsors so it comes out of there hard earned money every week. Into todays world every dime is hard to come by. This is not a complaint just stating the facts from my team, because I have been blessed to do this for 21 years when some do not even get the chance to race. But sprint car racing has become so expensive that it is tough for us to make it. That is why if things do not change in purse or expense the blue collar racer will be out of sprint cars and relegated to another form of racing. Here is a comparison between 1986 my rookie year to 2007. I know Lawrenceburg was paying around 1500 to win and bloomington at some point paid 1500 weekly but not positive in 1986, but pretty sure they did. Dont know exact start money but I think 150. I am going to use a 20 race schedule.

1986
$9,000.00 new motor
$6,000.00 new rolling chassis
-----------
=$15000.00

Per night expenses and I am missing somethings I know.
$75.00 for engine rebuild that cost around $1500.00 at that time
$50.00 per night for RR tire at $100.00 figureing new tire every 2 nights
$10.00 per night for LR tire only using 2 tires in 20 races.
$45.00 for pit passes at $15.00 dollars each for 3 people for my team
$20.00 per night for fuel for car at $1.00 per gallon for 20 gallons
$20.00 per night for fuel for truck at $1.00 per gallon for 20 gallons
$50.00 per night in wear and tear and replacement parts oil filter so on
--------
=$270.00 per night times 20 = 5400.00 add the $15000.00 for the car and motor and you have $20,400.00 spent not counting crashes or blow ups. So you had to avererage bringing in 1,000.00 per night to break even.



Side note shocks were $60.00 a piece then and now $120.00 to $700.00.
Numerous other things are up also


2007 Around the same to win at 1400.00 at Lawrenceburg and 1300.00 to win at Bloomington $200.00 to start


$35,000.00 for a new motor
$15,000.00 for a new roller
-----------
$50,000.00

$250.00 per night for engine rebuild at $5,000.00
$92.00 per night for RR tire at $185.00 new tire every 2 nights
$15.00 per night for LR tire at $150.00 using 2 tires in 20 races
$75.00 for pit passes at $25.00 a piece
$55.00 per night for methanol at $2.75 per gallon for 20 gallons
$55.00 per night for fuel to get to the track at 20 gallons
$100.00 per night in wear and tear and replacement parts
---------
$642.00


$642.00 per night times 20 races = $12,840.00 add $50,000.00 for the car and motor and you have 62,840.00 spent not counting crashes or blown motors. So you had to average bringing in around $3,000.00 dollars per night to break even.

Not one person is getting rich off of Sprint car racing. From the promoters to the racers we are all struggling to get by. We live in a tough economy. That is why I have said we have to find a way to either cut costs or find a way to pay more money from 3rd on back. Blue collar racers cannot survive very long with the costs. If we do not watch what we are doing there will be know more blue collar racers. If we continue on there will only be high dollar teams with the big sponsors and no little guy. To me that stinks that is what makes this sport exciting seeing the little guys try and take down golliath. This isonly my opinion and I may be way off. But if we continue to go in the path that we are before long the names like Anderson, Christian, Charmiceal, Cone, Cummins, Spencer, Shuman, Smiths, Gaines and so on and so on will be done. You will only have the big teams left and they only hire young driver devolpement drivers. If it were not for the teams of Pace, Truckers, and Eddison what are the veterans without money going to do. They are about the only traveling teams left that hire drivers. I may be tottally wrong in 10 years the sport could be as strong as ever. But in my humble opinion is if things do not change we are not looking at a bright future.

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

Kevin...

I agree 100%...but is there any kind of answere out there?? When the 360 deal started they all said this is the answere. Cheap engines,you won't use as many tires and you won't have to rebuild the engine as often. Well we all know that deal has gone over the edge financially. Shocks, well they are completely stupid (as far as the price goes). Heck the car is the cheapest item to buy. The tire deal didn't really change the cost of weekend racing as much as advertised. The purses as you stated havn't changed in 20 years and I know that in this day and age it can be tough for a race track owner to make serious money each week but that being said I still think they (PROMOTERS) could be doing more to help the situation by PROMOTING instead of just trusting their fate to chance in the hopes that they will have success just because the doors are open. I mean the promoting thing works!! All you have to do is go to B'town,Tri-State or L'burge to confirm it. As far as cutting the cost so that the blue collar worker can afford to race I'm not to sure that it's not already to late. The fans already pay enough so you can't dig into them for more cash and the racers are paying way to much per week so what do we do. Where do we cut first?? Engines are the most expensive part but what do we do to make the changes necessary to lower the cost that hasn't already been tried?? I am all for a BIG change to lower the cost or you're right there be nothing but big money teams racing. Something needs to be done thats for sure but what??

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

Fantastic post Kevin.:respect:

I am fairly new to being a car owner, I have been around racing most of my life though. I really don't have any answers, just some thought provoking questions.
You mentioned if things don't change, the future doesn't look so bright for sprint car racing as we know it. Could the swing towards drivers buying rides and high costs of racing just be an economic "cycle" so to speak? 20 years from now will it be like it was in the 80's? I hope we don't have to wait that long to see things turn around, but as I said before- I don't have the answer to saving sprint car racing as we know it. Perhaps through the winter someone will read this thread and help us all out with the answer.

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

AMEN Kevin I completely agree that the cost is out of control

A couple of my ideas include

1. the DT3 you run the heat (or qualify) is the one you run the feature on. Keeps big money teams from strapping new ones on all night.

2. Hand us our shocks when we sign the car in. Then it will be guarenteed we all are running equal shocks. Nobody can out shock race you.

Nick Johnson

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

Folks Racin isn't cheap & never will be. This has been talked about for YEARS ! Nothing has happened . nothing will happen. It will either go on or it wont. If a shock is gonna make or break your racing program then i think it's time to find another deal to go do. 1 more thing Everyone wants to go race & win but not many wanna do what it takes to do it RIGHT.

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

Fantastic Post Kevin!

I do have some questions tho.
1. Is it possible to build your own motors and compete? I mean can you build that 35.000 motor for say 15-20? Block, Pistons, Rods, Mains, Heads? or is that too risky, Don't have the time, OR Just cant compete with em?

Shocks 750 plus adjusters/ Torsion adjusters
This is assinine IMHO. Teams aren't buying these adjustables ect because they can aford them. It's because they can correct a setup miss durring a caution Theres no reason anyone should be able to buy 150-200 racing shocks, Rebuild them for 40 bucks every off season and save a nights cost of racing just from one shock.

I know some of the things developed have good points, The adjustables might replace the four different RR shocks you carry around.

The MSD's Well you can keep from overrevving motors with em if you know what your doing (Particularly helpful in a flip where your foots mashed on the floorboard)

Whats the answer? I don't know, But, I'll agree with you and that S&M writer from last month that said it's rapidly aproaching the point that without a high dollar sponsor, Your gonna be racing something else.

Chuck, who is much anticipating watching the younger Briscoe's career as much as I enjoyed watching and continue watching yours.

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

Chuck, it's possible to build your own motor to keep the costs down but you will lose out on horsepower. The Law Brothers build all their motors. They have Neibel's do the machine work usually but all assembly is completed by Roger and Vic. I would assume their motors are close to the $20,000 range and roughly put out 780 to 790 hp. (Not exact figures mind you) The sad thing is those are little horsepower numbers compared to a vast majority of people out there running. Even back in 2001 and 2002 we had a really good fighting chance with the big money teams but it seems that in the last 4 years motors have become insane on price and the amount of power they are producing!

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

Folks Racin isn't cheap & never will be. This has been talked about for YEARS ! Nothing has happened . nothing will happen. It will either go on or it wont. If a shock is gonna make or break your racing program then i think it's time to find another deal to go do. 1 more thing Everyone wants to go race & win but not many wanna do what it takes to do it RIGHT. Qoute from Rex W





Rex you are right and that is what scares the heck out of me. Who is going to replace the Dave Darlands of this sport. Not many young drivers are getting in this to race sprint cars. They are hoping to go to the next level. So at 21 years old they have made it to the next level or done with sprint cars. It has not started to happen but the movement is getting close. The development teams will either get there drivers moved on or replace them with another young development driver. So if the blue collar racers cant afford it like the guys I mentioned earlier how many cars will we have. I agree that the costs probably will not come down not very often people slash prices on things. But if we all put our heads together and work together we can maybe see this thing flourish for years to come.

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

If a shock is gonna make or break your racing program then i think it's time to find another deal to go do. 1 more thing Everyone wants to go race & win but not many wanna do what it takes to do it RIGHT. Quote RexW


I was just using that as one of the many examples of how the cost has gone up and we are racing for around the same dollars. I agree that one shock is not gonna make or break you. I disagree with the end part everyone wants to win but not many wanna do what it takes to do it right. Some just cannot plain afford to do it right. I would love to see some of these guys with unlimited budgets. Hud Cone, Troy Link, Kevin Besecker, AJ Anderson, Brandon Petty, Josh Cunningham, Bobby Stines, Kyle Cummins, Arin Mcitosh, Critter Malone and the list goes on and on. You would see them up front alot more frequently.

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

Thank you Mr. Briscoe, this is what I thought you might say about this. Sometimes a shock can change alot of things.

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

:headbang:I'll try this once more. I have been preaching this gospel for years and years to deaf ears. Sprint car people don't get it. Maybe someone can explain why.

Brick hard right rear tire that can be run half a summer (sorry to the tire dealers out there). Iron block (Ahhhh! Sorry Rodeck, Gaerte, Donovan). No adjustable shocks (sorry Penske). Here's the real deal blower. An engine claim. Say $1500 for the long block. Whoa! God forbid!

Would it work? There is an IMCA/UMP modified on every street corner where I live and those are the basic rules governing them. The racing is close and the guys doing it are working stiffs having a blast. The ones who can afford it, step on up into late models. It's working.

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

Al, Your right but there are a ton of holes in this. The UMP tracks I've visited, I bet you couldn't build a motor for less than 6000. Rear Steer? When did that become part of IMCA Mods? Shocks, Ungoverned, Running tubes in tires to make them hard tires hook, Well you ruin one quicker than you might think.
Claim Rules?
Ever been a part of a claim? Seen one happen?
The ones I've seen by another team or a promotor left very bitter taste in everyones mouths and I've even seen violence erupt from them.

It's gonna take car owners, Sanctioning bodies, Drivers and promotors all sitting at a table nationwide to put together some cost reducing rules.

How bout a compression rule? That could save five grand right there (Top three tested at every track every night) How do you get compression? Heads and Pistons, Two of the biggest cost rising issues. Billett alluminum is also going through the roof. Maybe save all your pop tabs and have them melt you down a new block to hone? LOL.

How about no adjusters or adjustable shocks with no incar adjusters therefore those saving money on multiple shocks still race with the setup they hit the track at every track and sanction?

How about passing points systems. Don't matter if you got a 20 grand car or a 60 grand car, you pass people, you earn your way, (Qualifying often exploits the 40 grand motor from the 20 grand)

How about making cost saving rules that keep competition between manufactures in the mix

It will have to be universal or it just won't work. As Much as I agree with Kevin, Those that can spend more, Will!!!! and there is no end in sight.

Chuck

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

I just want to add one more thing. Before i get slammed for it. I am in know way putting down the teams that have the equipment or the money. I for one am one of those teams that pulls in the pits every night with equipment that is capable of winning.

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

The ones who can afford it, step on up into late models. It's working.[/QUOTE]

Now why did you go and say something like that

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

Chuck, I appreciate your thoughts.

I don't believe anyone mentioned rear steer.

Hard tires save money. No debate there.

No cockpit adjustable anything. Good idea.

And okay, no claim rule. That can be taken care of by using crate motors. Cheap, reliable crate motors. The racing in the classes that utilize those motors is extremely competitive. The fans love it, the fields are full, and the best drivers still find their way to the front.

Sprint car people need to look outside of their small, and getting smaller all the time, group, to see what is working out there. There are classes that are thriving. It's all right there in front of us if we take a look.

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

Kevin you are exactly right on everything you've said. The little guy is being pushed out and is has happened in just the last few years. In my opinion sprint car racing is heading now were the Indy 500 has went the last 25years. In the late 70's and early eighties it was common place for Grant King, A.J. Watson and many others to take a 4 or 5 year old Indy car, haul it to the speedway on an open trailer and make the 500. As the technology continued to evolve, with skyrocketing costs the 75-95 cars that would show up for the 500 has now dropped to 35-40, with several of them being backups that don't even try to make the race. Sprint car racing is heading down this path. A path where someone with desire and technical ability willing to use and work with equipment not necessarily level witht he top teams, doesn't have a place any longer. As Kevin said there are many drivers at all levels of racing capable of racing in the big leagues. In the mid eighties I worked with a low budget Indy car team that Ken Schrader drove for at the speedway, passing his rookie test and being at a speed to make the race in an older car before it was wrecked in practice. Kenny said something then that I have always remembered "There's a lot of guys out there across the country that have the ability to drive these cars or Nascar that will never get the chance." Unfortunately we may be saying the same thing about sprint car racing in not to distant years to come.

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

here we go again...
http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/3802/smash1lw.gif

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

Al, you are on the right track but I would make a couple of adjustments. As far as the brick hard RR tire and no adjustable shocks you are dead on. An iron block is a good idea but would force car owners to scrap what they have and spend more money. An engine claim just isn't workable. With a brick hard RR and no cockpit adjustables it would be difficult to get all the power from a banzai engine to the track. Teams would be forced to use their knowledge to get the most out of their program, not their wallet. And a harder LR should be part of the deal as well.

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

I like the Midwest All Star tire rule. Whatever tire you qualify on you have to run the heat and feature on the same tire. It would help with costs.

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

Could you also give a rundown comparing prices of Transporters in 1986 vs Today??

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

Also if you check into like a bowtie or dart steel block they are not far from the cost of a standard aluiminum block.

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

Maybe Brad or Steve can answer this.

What are the cost difference between a Steel Block "race ready" and an aluminum block "race ready" ?

How much difference is there in cost between fixing a steel block and a Aluminum block ?

Are Steel Blocks fixable?

Besides weight what are the advantages of using an aluminum block vs a steel block?

I have my theories but would rather hear from an expert.

Tim Clauson

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

I for one think that the ASCS is doing a heck of a job with 360 sprint car racing. I for one know my dad would not be able to afford to race a sprint car if it wasn't for the 360's.

I for one would love to race a sprint car, even if it's a once a month deal at a local track, it doesn't matter. What seems to be the trend is the people who want to race sprint cars either for a living, or for fun, cannot afford to even come close. I might be able to straggle enough money to buy a frame with a motor plate, but I severely doubt it. The guys going from micro's to sprint cars are moving on at an astonishing rate that Kevin's right, who are the next Darlands or heck for that matter, Briscoe's going to be?

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

:respect::dologob::dologob::dologob: c bnm,./nvhvvbnnmcvdgfvjjdvggghasdfghjkl;'zxccvbnmasfdghj
d0g :hoffman:

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

Ahhh. My 4 year olds first post, he came up and said daddy what is that , I said, son you know how you type on the computer, well this is where I type and he said daddy can I type and I said type on big daddy and there you have it! I wonder if he is the youngest poster we have.

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

Post of the year!!!!!!!!!! Make that the Decade!!!

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

There's the problem. I say steel block, and everyone in sprint car racing immediately thinks Bowtie or Dart. "How can I spend more money"? Go ahead and get your Bowtie or Dart. If you run steel blocks, I guarantee some kid who wrenches at the local oil change facility will go to the junk yard and find a block out of an old pick up truck, and he will eventually whip you....or not. But, that's the point. Give a regular guy a little hope. Why else would he get a sprint car? He wouldn't, and they don't. They get modifieds.

Did Opperman EVER run an aluminum block? Kenny Weld? Did the two of them ever have any good races? Have any fun? Did Opperman come from money? Would we have ever seen him run if he were starting out today? Unlikely.

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

Good point Al...

The block for my 360 came from a 1972 Chevy pickup... 4-Bolt main... I got a few suggestions from my engine builder as far as serial numbers to look for. I picked it up for $100 from some random guy I found in the Tradin' Post, a local classified paper. That's nowhere near the cost of a new Aluminum, Dart, or Bowtie block...

I can't recall what it cost to have it magnafluxed and to bore it out, but it wasn't more then a couple hundred bucks. So I spent maybe $300 to $400, for a block ready for a rotating assembly.

Just some more food for thought.

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

Other than some speeds, I notice little to no difference in the quality of racing from the old cast iron age to the new age. No reason a 360 cast Iron class with a couple of mandated head sets wouldn't flurish. Other rules would have to be strictly adhered too but I say go for it! You could bring that 60.000 car cost down to probably 20,000 and still have quality and possibly more competitive racing as these days the Unlimited teams seem to be running away with things.

Chuck, also not knocking those who can afford top equiptment of everything, It's just that Five local guys showing up for big races is dissapointing to say the least.

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

Good luck finding a GOOD steel block from a junkyard. That & they cant be repaired

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

IMCA/UMP modified teams all over the country don't seem to be having a problem running those junkyard blocks, and here Matt Dobey has successfully planted one in his sprinter.

As a matter of fact, while I'm dreaming online of an affordable sprint car, let's have a "no dry sump rule". The modified guys have more than proven that you don't need one, and many run the same screaming engine all year on a quarter mile track with no problems. It's just another unneccesary expense.

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

Don't know if he is the youngest but he makes more sense than some around here!:rolling:

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

What happened to the mscs steel block support series?

Re: To Kevin Briscoe
 

Why don't we reduce the right rear tire down to 16 inches, heck 14. That way all those horses can't get down to the track, it takes a little more throttle control. It sure looked like some of those races in the 60's were pretty good with those skinny tires throwing rooster tails all over the place. I'm just a fan, Kevin, but do you think that would help?