Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
 

I recently read on this web site that a regional midget org has announced an open tire policy. I went to their web site and read the press release and here are the particulars. Midget teams can now run a tire brand of their choice anywhere on the race car. Right side tires used for qualification will be stamped and must be used for the feature event.

Well.. this sounds like good news. At least the org is trying to come up with something different than has been the policy of various midget orgs around the country for the last few years.

OK... What's really different about this? Yeah... What's different about it? Well... now I can choose between at least two tire brands. That's a start as I've always felt that competition leads to a better deal. Subway has been pushing the $5 sub and now Quiznio's says they have lowered their prices, so it's working in the fast food world.

So.. What about the racing world? Gosh, I haven't read any press release that the midget tire companies are lowering prices. If you have, would you kindly post it on this thread? Thanks... I'll be waiting!!

I don't know about you, but just about everybody that has investments has lost about half of their account balance to the economic downturn. So.. The new tire policy... What's in it for me to get excited about? Well... Not a whole lot that I can see. Maybe I'm missing something, but If I'm still going to pay $140-180 for tires, regardless of brand, isn't this kind of like somebody telling you that you've won the lottery and you're going to get $10 back? Or ...maybe $5?

How much money am I gonna save for an evening of midget racing with this new tire policy? Well.. It didn't say in the press release that I read. So have we accomplished anything? If the tire prices haven't changed, with the exception of running, maybe, fewer tires for the evening, what is the gain?

Now.. On the flip side, if a midget org came out with the following, I could really get excited:

MIDGET ORG ANNOUNCES NEW TIRE POLICY

###### Midget Racing Assn. announced today that they have a new tire policy. Midget owners will have the choice of running any tire brand they choose, but it must be compatible with the American Racer tires in compound and size that can be purchased for around $80, with the same tire being capable of running multiple events, both on dirt and pavement. An 8 inch wheel must be run on the right rear.

Now.. that particular policy has some bite, no pun intended.

Here are the pluses:

1. I can cut my tire bill, at least, in half. This is huge for car owners.

2. I have the choice of tire brand. We now have competition for business which usually leads to lower prices.

3. Less rubber (tire area) to the ground which will help neutralize some of the engine power.

4. Cars will be narrower, allowing for better side by side racing for the fans.

5. Fans could care less what tire brands, compounds, sizes are being used, as long as they have a good racing experience.

Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
 

Getting very sleepy.....sleepy..sleep..:slee...:sleep::O:

Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
 

I agree! Where's the "smiley beating a dead horse" when you need it.:sleep:

Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
 

If I read that correctly, is Don's new tune that he thinks sanctioning bodies are going to control what AR and Hoosier charge for tires?

God, it gets better and better, each and everyday.

Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
 

The reading comprehension on IOW is getting worse by the minute. Don't read my posts. Real simple.

Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
 

I agree with the 8" right rear rule. You could make a rule for an 8" wheel. Tire can be any brand and ANY compound with a 10" wide sidewall width. That would make the racing way better. The big motors would be forced to run a harder tire cause they would shred a soft one. Less horsepower cars could run a softer tire and would hook better. This would slow the fast cars down and make the mid pack cars competitive again. This would make a way better show.


Why isn't anyone pushing for this???


Jason




:Steer

Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
 

I am pretty certain that hoosier and american racer produce their tires in a different manor....perhaps making one more expensive than the other. Perhaps someone can correct me but I thought one company makes a synthetic and the other uses a natural rubber?

Either way I'd be willing to bet that most cars will still show up with a hoosier instead of the A/R despite cost in that series. I still see to this day A/R's with alot of stretch (growing stagger) and air blowing out of the sidewall lettering. I haven't heard much of that happening with hoosiers...maybe they're worth the extra money?

Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
 

Just thinking out loud here...Isn't the whole reason of writing stuff on a message board is to get people to want to read it? Why write it and then say don't read it? That helps nothing.

Don, it isn't always what suject you write about, it's just the fact that you write it over and over in hopes of trying to convince somebody over and over. I say why don't you personally take action as it appears what you are saying seems to be falling on the deaf ears of the movers and shakers in midget racing? Start your on club - you be the mover and shaker and not just a typist.

Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
 

"I don't know about you, but just about everybody that has investments has lost about half of their account balance to the economic downturn. So.. The new tire policy... What's in it for me to get excited about? Well... Not a whole lot that I can see. Don, don't compare a race car with an investment. That would be like me getting upset when they come out with a new set of golf clubs and obsolete old technology Maybe I'm missing something, but If I'm still going to pay $140-180 for tires, regardless of brand, isn't this kind of like somebody telling you that you've won the lottery and you're going to get $10 back? Or ...maybe $5?

How much money am I gonna save for an evening of midget racing with this new tire policy? Well.. It didn't say in the press release that I read. So have we accomplished anything? If the tire prices haven't changed, with the exception of running, maybe, fewer tires for the evening, Don, listent to what you just said - fewer tires for the evening! You have answered your own question. what is the gain?"

Don, it is evident that unless placed on the board of directors of the sanctioning body that you would like to race with and are given full reign on rules that you simply won't be happy running about anywhere.

Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
 

I hate to ruin your day, but I have the purple tires leaking air out the sidewall lettering.

Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
 

Didn't USAC basically run the Focus Tires on pavement a few years ago? Smaller/Narrower

Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
 

The midget web site that I went to says nothing about running other tires for hot laps, heat races or semi features. That could be a potential of three other sets of tires. Do your research.

Yeah... You got one thing right. I and others who have huge investments in midget racing won't be happy until some common sense returns to the sport. You should be glad people like me are still around as car owners. Most of them only stick around for a year or two. Maybe it's because they read posts like yours that incinuate that owners should get out of the racing business if they don't like some of the rules. Are you packing up and leaving the country because you don't like the way the government runs things? Do you search the internet for the most expensive flight when you want to go somewhere? Follow in the footsteps of a midget owner for a couple of weeks and shell out all the expense from your own pocket and come back and tell me about it. I don't get it.

Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
 

I do know one thing. If there were a concerted effort to solve the tire expense issue, it would take only an inexpensive few hours at a dirt track testing various combinations of wheels, tire sizes and compounds and brands. That would stop all the speculation once and for all that I read on here about the results.

The first national midget race I saw was back in 1959 at Canfield Speedway in Ohio. It was a 100 lapper won by Johnny Parson, Sr... the racing was thrilling from beginning to end, no one flipped, and they all ran on ultra skinny tires.... and I wasn't pelted with dirt and there wasn't a huge dust storm. I'm not campaigning to return to 1959, but the greed is way out of control today.

Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
 

Don - just as you implore others to do, I would ask that you read the threads you participate in:

Midget car owner here from 2004-06 - two championships with WOMS and decided to get out because I was a high school teacher footing the bill for a midget team totally out of my own pocket - and realized, at the time, that to make the "next step" forward was going to cost too much. No harm no foul. I don't get on here ranting and raving about how the cost of midget racing drove me from the sport. I merely took a job as a tech official with ARCA at both Toledo Speedway and Flat Rock Speedway so that I could continue to participate in the sport I love. (By the way, this also allows me to have a better understanding of racing from all perspectives - from mechanic on a silver crown team, a tire engineer for an indycar team, a tire buster for Goodyear racing, to that of a race promoter as I ran a racing series for 10 years and promoted races from Michigan to Tennessee - I hope thats enough experience for you)

What you don't seem to realize is that racing in ALL forms has changed. You can sit here and say that people should do this or that, but the perfect storm of increased costs for the cars, higher expenses for competing, and dwindling gate receipts, mean that it is what it is right now for ALL forms of racing. I encouraged NO ONE to leave the sport, but to imply that your "racing investment" should give a suitable return is basically ludicrous - its not happening in your lifetime Don. That race car in your garage is no different than a shiny new bowling ball or a bass boat sitting next to that garage.

So, to paraphrase - please don't tell me to walk in your shoes - I have. And I knew enough to get out of them when they didn't fit any more.

Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
 

I outlined a plan in my first post. I haven't read your opposing opinion on here yet. Try to keep my race team out of the content. If you want to get personally involved with my team, as it seems so many on here do, I'll be glad to give you my address for your sponsor money. Otherwise, leave me out of the post or giving me personal advice. Thanks.

Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
 

Yeah, I don't get it.

You (DM) get on here and plead your case for an open tire rule ... BEGGING that they open it up.

Well, wouldn't you know it that a group does just that ... AND YOU STILL COMPLAIN!

An open tire rule is an open tire rule ... how can you say we have an open tire rule then turn around and say you have to run a tire similar to brand X? Sorry, that would not be OPEN!

Like many others, I really don't understand why a self proclaimed racing genius like yourself doesn't start your own group ... it makes absolutely no sense to me.

If you don't like the cost, don't race. Real simple.

Joe Shockley

Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
 

Another person on a long list of debate team rejects that has no idea how to post on the topic.

Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
 

Hey Don,
When the press release was originally posted, the cost for the two brands of tires was listed; however, that has subsequently been removed. I don't know why, just what I observed. Have you contacted the series owner about it yet? Or tried getting in touch with American Racer on their costs? I don't remember the exact dollar amounts posted, but the ARs were cheaper. I know that really doesn't help for particulars, although possible places to start to get more answers. As for the RR rim, I believe the rule states: "The right rear wheel may be a maximum of ten (10) inches in rim width." So you are limited to a MAX of 10", if you wanna run a 8" rim for more side-wall flex or whatever, go for it.
Thanks,
Chad Atkinson

Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
 

And WE are the debate team rejects? We are the not the ones on here starting never ending topics just to see themselves type.

My point was, that the ENTIRE topic is pointless because you want an open tire rule, then in the same breath, want it to be like a specific tire.

I have never seen anyone start topics that go in more circles than a NASCAR race.

Are you related to Michael Moore? That's another guy who loves to complain about everything but really does nothing about it.

And please, make your reply "ON TOPIC" to what I just said.

Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
 

I believe the topic is tire rules and how they might encourage more owner participation in midget racing. As a fan seeing car counts continuing to diminish I try to go the extra mile to understand any owner's thoughts. I think its counter productive to do otherwise.
I have never seen any post by Mr. Moore implying that he is looking for a "return on his investment". If more of us voiced concerns to sanctioning bodies, promoters and anyone else we thought we could persuade that a tire rule based on the greater good for the sport would put more cars on the track I personally believe we are better off. Its time to engage in some critical thinking on the costs involved and simply trying to kill the messenger won't do much good.
Narrower wheels, harder compounds and an open tire rule may be a great start. I haven't heard anybody say it wouldn't work, only that it isn't likely. Nothing is likely if no one pushes for it.

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Hey Don it looks like only a few people on here can debate your topic on here. The rest are just haters. I would not even give their bashing posts any credibility with a response.

Cutting expenses in racing is a subject that's always worthy of serious discussion. If this subject had been brought up by anyone other than you it would be discussed on merits. You can't win for losing......

Keep up the good fight!!

Don Gilbert..... NOT a Don Moore hater!!!

Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
 

Well how about you go run that series with your crappy @$$ "Red" Label tires. Now that you have a series to race in go and spend some time in your shop getting your cars ready and quit your b!tc*ing on here.


Crap... I hate it when I post off topic. DM:moon:

Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
 

If opening the tire rule up to running whatever tire you feel is better at a given track and mandating those tires are used all night (baring damage to the tire due to a wreck or them getting shredded by debris) I am all for it.

To the haters, debate the topic at hand and keep you personal thoughts on Don to yourself or PM them amoungst yourselves, please.

Proud Don Moore supporter. Keep up the good work you do :thumb

Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
 

You rang???
http://blogs.amnestyusa.org/pub/amne...dead-horse.gif

Now back to your regularly scheduled fighting.... :angry-smiley-007:
http://www.threadbombing.com/data/me...king_about.gif

Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
 

DOn is one of those guys who gets up in the morning and goes awe crap still breathing!!! Well i must be happy today so i will find anything and everything to bi**h about!!!! I bet DON is waiting for the music industry to bring back the ole 45's records because CDs drove up the cost of music!!!!!! :applaud::O::O:

Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
 

Several thoughts on the subject:

1. I am not convinced that open tire rules don't raise the cost of racing. Have you ever seen the tires that the Late Model guys cary around? Tire A for a heavy track, Tire B for a dry slick track, Tire C for an average track. I can see the midget guys doing the same. Purple tire for this track, AR for that track. Now the tire bill has gone up.

2. Supply and demand drive the price of the tire. Not the sanction bodies.

3. Spec tires and cost control have a place in this sport. However, people do not want their options limited. The odds of USAC or Powri going to a spec tire are remote, and I am not sure that I want the national series to have spec tires. However, it makes great sense for all of the smaller regional seires. However, now the regional guys can no longer run with the national series.

4. Has anyone ever noticed that there are two types of people in Don Moore's world. People that agree with him, and the idiots that are off topic and can't read. How you can have a debate when you won't listen to anyone else's point of view?

Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
 

i have. you hit the nail on the head. :thumb

Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
 

There is a very simple solution to your argument, and thanks for being one of the few in this thread that has the intelligence to post something worthwhile. Adopt the around $80 American Racer tire compound/type and allow Hoosier or any other tire company to make the same tire. The original tire of this variety was the Mickey Thompson tire. The rights to the MT tire were bought up by Summit Racing. Apparently they decided not to make the tire and American Racer is now making a copy of it. Purple tire or any other company would have to sell the tire at around the same price to stay competitive. This tire is already being successfully used by one midget org. IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE TO THE FANS WHAT TIRES ARE BEING USED IN COMPETITION. Greed is in the way of progress here to cut the tire cost dramatically. It's not the fans, it's not the car owners, it's not the drivers.. it's the midget orgs with their greed that is the problem. This tire is universal for both pavement and dirt, BTW. This is sensible solution that can be implemented immediately to reduce the cost of midget racing.

Almost all the midget orgs in the country already have a spec tire rule for all four corners. For example, the right rear must be a purple SP2, 3 or 4 at the cost of $140+ and some teams use up a couple in an evening. the $80 tire can be run on multiple surfaces and, according to some, can be run for an entire season+. It makes absolutely no sense to me why we are forced to pay $140+ for several tires an evening when this tire is available for $80. And recently I bought a tire for my trailer for $56. So what's with the $140-180 price tag? ***

Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
 

TIRE DEALS, SHOE DEALS..Read this about college coaches!!!

Bestow blame, or credit, on the Maryland or North Carolina teams of the early'70s. The Terps debuted red canvas Converse sneakers. UNC donned a baby blue model.

For the first time, fans -- consumers -- began noticing college players' footwear. Before then, inconspicuous white or black were the only sneakers options. TV coverage of college games increased. Adolescents in the Washington area wanted red Chuck Taylors, like Maryland's. Kids in North Carolina searched for blue shoes.

Converse benefited. Adidas and Nike came along, as did Pro-Keds, Puma, Reebok and a slew of other start-up companies trying to snag a slice of the exploding market. They made contracts with college coaches, paying them to ensure college teams would wear a specific brand of shoe.

The more TV time your program is going to get, the more the shoe company wants you in their shoes," said a former Division I player in the state.

The term "Shoe Wars" was born to describe the competition among sneakers makers that's been going on now for three decades. The victors? The college coaches.

Depending on a program's position in Division I basketball's food chain, coaches can annually make six- or seven-figure checks in addition to salaries and other perks simply by mandating that their players wear a particular brand of gym shoe. A handful of coaches make more on their shoe deals than they do from their universities.

Some coaches' allegiance is dictated by relationships they have with representatives of the shoe companies. Other coaches go for the fattest payday available.

The return on this investment for Nike, adidas or their competitors: A style becomes popular among boys and girls. Product moves off store shelves.

"Trust me, Nike and adidas don't spend all of this money cause they're stupid," said John Averett, a former high-school coach in the state, an ex-assistant at the University of Richmond, and for 21 years an employee of Converse (sales and promotions).

In the'90s, when Rick Barnes coached at Clemson and Eddie Fogler was at South Carolina, the Tigers and Gamecocks wore Converse. That, not by coincidence in the view of Averett, was the most popular brand worn by South Carolina high-school teams during that decade.

Shoe companies got product exposure. Coaches got the checks. Players got several pairs of free shoes per year, in addition to other gear.

Up until the mid-'80s, most Division I coaches could count on a piece of the pie. Even at a school such as William and Mary, the coach would receive $5,000 from a shoe maker to assure the Tribe wore that company's product. No longer is that the case. Shoe companies still spend huge money in nationwide promotional campaigns in college basketball, but the coaches at top programs are making almost all of it.

Coaches from college basketball's top-level leagues regularly make $100,000 to $1 million a year off shoe contracts. What if a player would prefer to compete in another brand? Tough, in most cases. Everybody on the team, at least the high-profile teams, wears the same make, per coach's orders.

Most coaches at schools that don't belong to prime-time leagues no longer receive income from shoe companies. The University of Richmond's Jerry Wainwright and Virginia Commonwealth's Jeff Capel, for instance, say they receive no financial compensation from any shoe company. But they get free products - shoes as well as warm-up suits, bags, etc. - for themselves, staff members and players.

Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
 

Since I haven't used the tires I may have this wrong, but aren't the American Racer tires that are used in the IRS series the Mini-Mod/Dwarf car tires?

Mike Fulper's All Star Club used the same tire for a few years.

The IRS cars at Sun Prarie are about 1-1.5 Seconds slower than the Reg. Show. Of course the motors are restricted as well, so I don't know the real speed difference in the tires. I do know that Don would not have been happy to have been more regulated after winning a few races like some of the guys were after some of the dirt shows last year. Some of the guys had to run different air pressure than the others to even up the competition.

I have no idea what the price to make a tire costs and I have to say that I felt it was pretty much a joke when they built the Hoosier rear Focus tire and sold it for $95ea. but still charged $120 plus for the fronts. Hoosier has to make money off of racing to be profitable.

Me personally, while I think the tire deal should be tweeked, I would lose interest very quickly if they went to the Dwarf car style tire. While I believe the IRS series has it's place, and I have watched them run a few times at Illiana when they where on Mickey Thompson's and with other shows, I personally wouldn't want to either watch them on a regular basis or go race with them on a regular basis. Good guys and alright racing, but to me it's not the same.

When Bill started running his own car in the 70's, there where already dirt and pavement tires, but you could get many shows out of the tires and obviously the same car was used on dirt and pavement. That stayed pretty much true until around '86 for the tires and around '93 for the cars. Sure the racing was cheaper for the owner, but I personally don't feel it was better racing than we have today.
I think the specialized cars and tires help make the racing better today. I personally don't want to go back to the days of dirt/pavement combo tires, but I'm sure a little better compound could be made for longevity. I would also like to see the tires stamped before hot laps.

Don't get me wrong, I saw many great races in the '70's, but I have seen many great races over the last 10-15 yrs. as well. Dirt and Pavement.

Of course we are dealing with a situation where the tire sponsor has to make money from the series because racing is where they make their money. In that situation the company is going to attempt to make a profit.

Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
 

I don't know what tire deal he had with Hoosier or if he has one with A/R, but if he turned down getting paid by Hoosier or A/R to open the tire rules, then I have to say that was a big step and a big leap of faith. I hope it works.

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The one major savings I see is that unless there is a flat, YOU USE ONE TIRE a night instead of possibly three, Qual, Heat, Feature (Even though it wasn't necessary to do before, Top teams did it anyway.

It also allows possibly firestone or Goodyear, Toyo, Whatever to come if if they choose. If Blimpie offered their subs for 4.50 don't you think the others would match it?

Chuck

Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
 

I think I'm hearing echoes of the all time infamous phrase.. "that's the way it's always been done" or at least the way it's been done in recent memory. I started another thread a week or so ago asking fans about their opinion of what was a "turn on" for them to come back to a race track for another racing experience. Time and time again, race fans said that it didn't matter about the tires, chassis, oil, fuel, etc etc.. or whether it was lawnmowers racing or what not...Fans are interesting in close, exciting competition. Most fans have no idea about stagger, tire compounds, size, width brand etc etc. It doesn't matter!!! IT DOESN"T MATTER!!! It's the competitive racing and the thrill of watching someone come from the back that raises the hair on a race fans body!

The Leaders Edge post was written by Scott Baue, whom I have leaned on time and time again for advice and guidance. The Baues, Scott and his bro Bill, are seasoned experts when it comes to open wheel racing. But they, by no means watch auto racing like the average fan in the stand. I greatly enjoy a good competitive basketball game, but I've never played in an organized game and by no means do I watch a BB game the same way an experienced coach would view the game. I listen to a piece of music in an entirely different way than the average concertgoer.

Until there is some serious research to the contrary regarding all of the tire issues presented in this thread, I'm having a hard time believing that the size and compound of a tire is going to cause race fans to stay away from a race track.

Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
 

I agree that I don't see it maybe the same way someone else would. I was just speaking for myself.

I guess I go back to this; if it is apples to apples and the fans don't care, why hasn't the sportsman series gathered more steam in the last 10 years. A variation of this style of program has been in place around the Chicago area for at least 10 years without either a great interest in cars or fans. Both have stayed pretty much the same from it's inception. Again, nothing against it, it has a place, but it hasn't outdone the other "National" style organizations that run there. I will say that the "National" series isn't huge either. We are talking groups that are in the area of one of our country's largest metropolitan areas. That may be an indication that basically any form of this type of racing isn't what people want to see.

I don't really think any "fan" that posts on here is without some bias. Problem is though, we don't have enough casual fans period to make any kind of real assesment on what an "average" one wants.

I will say this; even if it is just a second difference and that doesn't seem like much, if on a track where the laps are 15 seconds; in a 30 lap feature a car would be lapped nearly twice. Any fan would notice that and if they have seen these style of cars and then they see them, you notice a second.

I am very serious about this Don, I could talk to the tire manufactures and we can get some tracks to let us test all of the different combinations. We would have to use one of your cars and we would have to find an unbiased driver. If I am wrong then I am wrong. I just don't see how this direction in the tire rules would benefit the sport. Hoosier,American Racer, and Goodyear all make a tire similar to what you are talking about.

Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
 

My cars are available and I have an unbiased driver(s) in mind.

In terms of the lack of interest in the Chicago area, what about the lack of interest at Sun Prairie? A 50% decline in participates since 1999. We are down to one dirt race track in Ohio presenting midgets and that's a once a year half mile support class race. Midgets used to be popular all over northern Ohio and that has been wiped out completely. There are a total of 6 short track dirt races left in Indiana, and four of those are within one week. I guess park your midget for the rest of the summer.

Fans love large car counts. I'm not talking about 50-60 cars but 30-40 cars for a race. Now, what promoter is going to turn down a proposal to race midgets if that many cars show up? I can tell you that there are a couple in Indiana that would schedule midgets on a regular basis if that many cars would show up and that there also could be races promoted at several tracks in Ohio with that guarantee.

In my opinion, it has not been a lack of fan interest. It has been the greed of the midget orgs that has caused midget racing to be looked at as a high dollar sport, along with the super millionaire teams that have endless dollars. That is the perception that we have presently. The fans didn't mandate the extra cubes for the $37,000+ engines, nor the titanium and carbon fiber parts, or the biased weight rule that gives an advantage to the tiny drivers, etc etc etc etc. It was the midget orgs that did it!!!!!!!!!!! If the current trend continues, we are looking at midget racing gradually becoming extinct unless this trend is reversed. It's already happening, people. You are all in denial if you think otherwise.

BTW, Scott, I did not connect on the 1 second off lapping in 30 laps statement. Hey, I've seen tons of racing with the present equipment with the leader lapping a good percentage of the field.

And finally, I am proposing this: I would be glad to show up with my two midgets at a dirt short track, in front of race fans, and have my two cars race against each other for 10 laps with the current mandated purple tires. Bring the cars in, change the tires and wheel configuration to what I am proposing and then have them race another 10 laps. For that matter, how many other midget owners would be interesting in joining me with this experiment? Now forget about all the people in the pits... ask the fans what they thought about the racing!!!! Was one race better than the other?? Did the tires and wheel size make any difference to you as a fan?????? and I'm wondering after the racing was over if the fans could tell you which race was demonstrating the purple tires???????? BTW, I already know the answer!!!!!!!!!!!

And to make it even more interesting, I will pick out a track in Ohio where the fans haven't seen midgets race in a long time and let's see if the fans can pick out the purple tire racing!

Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
 

Well that has a dual purpose here Don. The off topic BS is the way things have always been done around here. :O:

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"And to make it even more interesting, I will pick out a track in Ohio where the fans haven't seen midgets race in a long time and let's see if the fans can pick out the purple tire racing!"

Are you insinuating that the fans in Ohio are color blind?

Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
 

If close competition and runs from the back were all that race fans wanted to see, you wouldn't see the World of Outlaws being the pinnacle of sprint car & midget racing. They just don't have that. Face it, speed and on-the-edge driving is what brings in the majority of fans. You can survey the sample on this message board, but that doesn't give you a good cross-section....you're only getting the die-hards!

Just as much as close competition is needed, you also have to have hair-raising speed. If track records don't get broken, then what's the point? New fans and part-time fans want to see guys on the edge, pushing the limit of their cars....I always say that the reason I like traditional sprint cars is because you can SEE and HEAR that they are pushing the car to the limit and getting absolutely every ounce of speed that car and track will allow.

Taking steps backwards in this department will not help. I am a huge supporter of trying to corral both tire and engine costs, but taking performance away from the cars only brings things down a level....

Also, and this is just for everyone to think about, and not a judgment from me - if you have more than one company producing a spec tire, the limits will be tested. Does anybody remember guys getting killed in stock cars because of tire problems?

No matter if a company is associated with tires, rear ends, shocks, engines, etc. etc., they always want to be associated with the winner. Just as Don posted the story above....people want to be linked to a winner and they always have! No matter how much you piss and moan, the winners will always get some special treatment, and they have earned that by winning! It's good to be the king, and that's because you have to earn the spot up on top of the mountain! All those companies constantly look for an edge so their equipment can win - and if they have to give it to a good team to make sure it wins, that's what they'll do!

And the tire companies, if forced to compete, will do everything they can to visit victory lane, even if that means bending the rules...

Those are just a few of my thoughts. Of course, I've posted them before and they were only dismissed as being off-topic or something. Hopefully they are deemed topical this time!

Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
 

You may want to revisit the thread on what turns the fans on at a race track.

Re: Midget Org Announces New Tire Rules
 

Work on your reading comprehension, Don. I addressed the part about your informal poll of those fans who frequent a message board such as this one. Unfortunately, all of sprint car and midget racing cannot be supported by the small numbers on this board....