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For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
This is for race fans only to comment: I'm interested to know your thoughts on your midget racing fan experience. The debate goes on and on about why midget racing is on the decline. As an owner of three midgets, the expense of tires is overwelming. The majority of midget owners are forced to pay $140-180 for Hoosier tires. These tires have a soft compound which have a very short life. Some teams must or may use up as many as 2-3 right rear tires in one evening. American Racer makes a midget tire that costs around $80. The IRS midget series based in Chicago has been using this tire for quite a while and, according to the racers, the tires last for an entire racing season and for some beyond that. USAC, Badger and POWRi midgets race with a 10 inch right rear wheel and Hoosier tires.
Now, here is where you come into the picture and this is especially for midget fans who have watched midget racing at Sun Prairie and the indoor Rumble Series. For Sun Prairie: Badger cars and the IRS series have both raced on the Sun Prairie track. Without considering the drivers and engines, was the actual racing enjoyment of the IRS series any different than the Badger cars? Did the difference in tire/wheel size make any difference in the enjoyment of the racing? For the Rumble Series: Full midgets and the 600's have both raced in the indoor Rumble Series. The 600's race on American Racer tires. Without considering the drivers and engines or the slight difference in the car sizes, was the actual racing enjoyment of the 600's any different than the midgets? Did the difference in tire size/wheel size between the two types of cars make any difference in the enjoyment of the racing? |
Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
For the last 55 seasons as a race fan, as long as the engine is in the front and there are no wings on it, I don't care what is run on a race car. Any rule is OK IMO as long as the rules make for good racing. From the stands it all looks pretty much the same to me.:thumb
I have been to the Rumble Series and and to Angell Park as a spectator in the past - be it USAC, Badger or whatever. It's all good.:thumb |
Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
Thanks. We need more responses!!
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Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
Well as a fan. I'm short on cash. So I think that I should get into the track for free. In the old days, It cost very little to go to the races. Now it cost way too much. I think the track owners should get some sponsors to pay, to let me in for free. Also the midget racing in the badger state is the best. I think I should get free gas to drive there and see the races. Its only fair. If I want something, but do not have the money, someone should give it to me for free. I have been going to races for 30 plus years- so I have put my time in- so I should be able to go for free. I'm thinking the car owners should pay to have me watch the races. Would it be a race, if no fans where there to watch it?
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Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
To me, as a fan ... the less tire choices the better.
I don't want to see a guy win a race just because of the tire he runs, that is not racing, it's gambling. And gambling is based more on luck that skill. They should all run the same tire, period. I wanna see the best driver, not the best tire. But I do agree with chop ... "I'm thinking the car owners should pay to have me watch the races." |
Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
Yeah, what the Seadog said! :thumb
Just a few thoughts cause I'm bored and have a few minutes to kill. Remember this is just my humble opinion concerning the cost of midgets: 1.) Presenting an exciting product to the race fan. One which will make the fans want to come back for more. Is that the case today? For the most part, yes. Was that the case 10, 20, 30 years ago? For the most part, yes. So why today do you need a 350HP, $35,000 motor to provide the same wheel to wheel exciting action that Fox, Vogler, Rice, Kenyon and the other legends did with 225HP, $10,000 VW's? I just don't get it. Was the racing boring and slow? Hell no! 2.) Whenever midget cost reduction is discussed I always hear the argument "well, if you can't afford it, you should run something cheaper". You're missing the point. There will always be people who can't afford it. I know people who can't afford to grocery shop every week. The point is....we continue to lose car owners every year who could afford it, but now can't. These are midgets. LITTLE cars. You can run a sprinter for less. ***???? 3.) If you use the Chili Bowl as an example of how strong midget racing is, you just don't have your head screwed on straight. I would guess that a very strong percentage of Chili Bowl entries do not run anywhere near a full schedule each year, in their respective states. I'm sure several ONLY run the Chili Bowl each year, then put the car back in the barn 'til next year. The Chili Bowl is like the Super Bowl, non football fans watch it because it's an event. Then they go do something else when the game is over. 4.)If you don't believe the cost of midget racing is killing midget racing, please explain to me why the Focus series was started. And the Kenyon cars. Cheaper alternatives to full midgets? Why would we need cheaper alternatives? Maybe because the cost of a full midget is now OUTRAGEOUS? To provide a place for younger drivers? What's wrong with a TQ until you're 16? Have you asked yourself why 10 years ago there were no mini sprints? Now there are two 1200cc clubs, a 600cc club and two TQ clubs. Those are ALL potential midget owners who got priced out. 5.)If you think midget racing is healthy and growing, you must be under 25 years old. Obviously you have never seen the Milwaukee mile grandstands sold out for a midget race. (I will post a photo if you don't believe it.) Or 33 cars qualify for the Hut 100 and 20 more go home who failed to qualify. (Will they get 20 cars this year?) The fields are dismal at weekly venues today compared to even 10 years ago. Up here in my neck of the woods the badgers are dwindling fast. I saw 7 cars show up at Manzanita last year. SEVEN!!! Yeah, midgets are stronger than ever! :kookoo 6.) The sanctioning bodies are in total control of the future of midget racing. If they envision 6-7 big buck NASCAR teams, fielding 4-5 cars each to comprise the field, then they are on the right track. If they envision 50-60 cars a week again, which is VERY realistic, then they need to do this: A.) SLASH engine costs at least in half. (it's a freakin' MIDGET for cripes sake!) B.) End ALL product deals. Tires, etc... If I build a product, I should be able to sell it freely to any competitor. This is America correct? C.) Take a freakin' pen, notepad and camera to any AMA indoor supercross event or any indoor Monster jam truck event and TAKE NOTES ON HOW TO PROMOTE. Not long ago the truck deal was here at the Metrodome and 7 of the 9 guys I work with went. Solely due to the promotion prior to it. That's all I got. For now. Midgets are my first love, don't piss me off. :O: David. |
Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
Originally Posted by JShock66: Think it through..... David. |
Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
I have to agree with Ovalmeister. I started playing with midgets as part of a crew that maintained two of them in the late 60s. In '72 (IIRC), one of the owners decided he wanted to own a real top-notch car. He bought a new Edmunds and installed a SESCO (we drove out to Ron Hoettles' shop to learn how to put it together). That car cost him within a couple of hundred bucks of what I paid for a new Ford Country Squire the same year. We ran the car for the whole NEMA season (30-35 shows) on less than $500. If that were even close to possible today, I believe there would be many more cars running.
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Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
What midget racing? Within 150 miles I have a total of .................................................. .................................................. ............................ 2 and one of them are indoor in which Munchkins are IMHO a different class.
The non midget week shows I've visited didn't have a full field. I fully believe cost is a major factor however I also see the sport watered down by Mini Sprints, Micro, Dwarf. Legends ect. ect. And the fact that you have a lot more alternatives in the price range by just buying a Sprinter instead. Have you seen the classifieds? If ever I was to get into racing 11,000 full rollers with motors are available. |
Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
Very well put Ovalmeister.
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Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
the tire deal is a definete killer. no way as a fan would i know from the stands if the leader is using a hoosier or american racer. but the insider dealings is something we will never no the truth about. the high cost of tires and the tires ability to handle more HP have made the engine builders build more expensive engines that make more hp. these 2 things dont make the racing any better, they actually make it worse.
first thing that needs to happen is for hoosier or american racer or joe blow down the street needs to make an affordable tire that will last a couple of races. something a little harder, not as wide, stiffer sidewalls. this one thing would help all racers control the cost and as fans we would see more competitive racing. just my 2 cents. |
Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
Ovalmeister gets an A+ for that post!!!!!! A job well done.
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Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
David, post #6 well said.
Don Moore as a race fan for 50 plus years I really don't care what tire the cars run on, as Seadog pointed out I don't think the average fan can tell the difference. As a former supermodified car owner I know quite a bit about the tire wars between Goodyear and Hoosier. Goodyear was the only tire you could run when I first started following the supermodifieds. Once Goodyear became the dominate tire in the Nascar divisions it opened a door for Hoosier to bring all of the open wheel divisons under their umbrella, so to speak. The supers have probably ran Hoosier rubber for about 20 to 25 years now. In your original post you were looking for Sun Prairie and Rumble Series fans to respond, unfortunately I have never attended either. The only things I know about them I have learned from the IOW members posting on this site. However, like David midget racing has been one of my favorite forms of auto racing for the past 50 plus years. The supermodifieds have run at Thompson, Oswego, Star and Lee Speedways with the NEMA midgets for special events; just recently I learned Joey Payne a very successful NEMA midget driver will step away from the midgets and concentrate on running supers this year. That decision wasnn't made because of the high cost of running a midget, it was made because of the number of Thursday night races NEMA has booked this year. In todays economy Joey felt he cann't take the time away from his 9-5 job, the job that puts the food on the table and a roof over his families head to go racing on a Thursday night. Feeling it was unfair to the car owner he has driven for to only run select races he stepped away from the midgets. TQ midgets were one of my other favorite forms of midget racing, the Can-Am TQ midgets held a winter series at the Niagara Falls Convention Center for years until the place was turned into an Indian Casino, I attended every race ever held there. The recent Thursday night practice at Manzy saw 29 midgets take to the track, more than the sprints or SC, on Friday Rob announced there were 44 midgets, I think I counted 41 actually take to the track for racing action. I thought that was a strong showing for hauling half way cross country to run. This race fan feels you need to channel your energy into building the midget series up, get over the fact that you have to run Hoosier Tires or go play with the divisions that run the cheaper tire. All divisions of auto racing are loosing car owners, drivers, sponsors and race tracks to run on this year more than ever. My experience with Hoosier Tire Co. has always been if they have a tire deal with a racing organization or track they do put money back into the point fund, etc.; if this doen't make you happy play some where else. This race fan and IOW member is tried of you starting new thread after new thread simply to express your dislike for Hoosier Tire Co.. Midget racing is expensive, all forms of racing are expensive my theory on that Nascar single-handedly drove the cost of auto racing sky high. All forms of auto racing are paying the price for Nascar's success. Pull your midget out of your garage an go racing at the track that makes you the happiest, support your local track and be thankful it is still there to race on. Good Luck in 2009! Patti |
Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
David & Patti,
Thank you for posting quality posts that neither slam anyone or attack another poster.:applaud: You have taken the question and put together thought provoking answers that spell out the situation of midget racing in 2009.:thumb Unfortunately, we have far too few of these types of posts and way too many that are laughable at best. |
Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
IMO: Its racing.... I like the midgets better than any other kind of racing.Midgets are great on dirt or pavement. I feel that 2 many people focus on this :angry-smiley-007: other than :checkered:... Midget racing is great.no matter what the rules are.Lets just enjoy are self and be thankful that midget racing is still around for all us die-hard race fans to enjoy. :thumb
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Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
Originally Posted by Ovalmeister: You remember when NASCAR ran the Hoosiers? The tires decided everything in a lot of races. Chassis, shocks, oil, wheel, bars, driver, etc. ... non of that mattered. Have the right tires and you fun up front ... you don't think that would get people complaining? As far as the Focus/Kenyons being created to be more affordable ... well, I would have to say that experiment has failed to this point. I saw several races that had less than 10 cars. Why is that? If cost was the bottom line, that division should be taking off. I agree 100% with the lack of promotion ... but even if we had 5x the people in the stands, that still would not affect the cost of having a race team. If anything, it would bring even more money into the sport and the cost would go even higher. The Chili Bowl was just one of the barometers I used to say the sport is still healthy ... if the count would have been down this year, I'm sure Don and some other people would be proclaiming the death of midget racing. You can't have it both ways. I would like to see the numbers out there as far as tire contracts go ... from NASCAR down. I know we all remember the great showing in Indy by F1 a few years back ... what a great show that tire war put on. |
Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
Originally Posted by #1brad kuhn fan: |
Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
I was thinking this was a post for fans? Looks like just one more poor midget racer crying about tire -motor-frame cost. Maybe you should get a second job-make more money to race with- I'm thinking you brains should start your own club. Will I
get a free life time pass to all of you races? So now you blame guys that race other classes of cars for you being poor-do not make "big money" To drive your over price toys, in circles in front of a few hundred people on a sat night? All I forgot, you do it because Joe or Rick will see you and want you to drive their million dollar toys. If you really love racing-you would find a class you can aford to race-have fun. Do not think you would-will do that. Me thinks-just old-tired guys that need to yell to think that you still matter in racing--time has passed you by. Racing does that. Just a guy that rides the pine on sat night in the stands. |
Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
Originally Posted by chop: |
Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
You know the IMCA divisions of sprint,midget,late model race cars were extremely competitive and exciting to watch because they had a claimer on the engine now they only do that in thier Modified series. Any car that has a claimer on the engine will reduce cost, shocks are another thing $1000 each the damn things should put themselves on and make coffee, and tires, yes they stamp qualifier tires and teams run different ones in the heat to avoid another heat cycle but why not make them run the stamped tire all night, there is nother cost cut, but really all of this is a mute point if the promoters don't start promoting and just living on gate money, we were racing at the Speeddrome for years and then when the crowd was less that a 100 every week USAC got booted out, Mt.Lawn the same way we race there for less fans than crew guys. All I know is I'd rather race my VW against the millionaires than set home and sulk because I race for one reason only..I LOVE IT!
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Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
Originally Posted by JShock66: As I'm sure you also know, Hoosier is very successful in ARCA. Proper testing would make competing tires a non issue. The whole point is this. If chassis company 123 pays X amount of dollars into a clubs year end point fund, then demands everyone has to use their chassis....how would that go over? Or a shock company? What if my sponsor is Valvoline but Pennzoil is the series sponsor? I'm forced to use Pennzoil? Bottom line, it's wrong, nuf said. [I]"As far as the Focus/Kenyons being created to be more affordable ... well, I would have to say that experiment has failed to this point. I saw several races that had less than 10 cars. Why is that? If cost was the bottom line, that division should be taking off."[/I] You're right, that experiment has failed. Why is that? Well, it's common knowledge that Focus midgets are now, damn near as expensive as a full midget. That's why you will continue to see less than 10 cars. This season it will be 5. Next year they will be gone. It started off as a good idea, but...well...I should just leave it at that. [I]I agree 100% with the lack of promotion ... but even if we had 5x the people in the stands, that still would not affect the cost of having a race team. If anything, it would bring even more money into the sport and the cost would go even higher.[/I] I'm not really sure what you mean. Not being a butthead, I honestly don't know what you mean. If more fans in the stands creates more money into a series, and the organization continues to enforce the rules and control costs, how would it cost more to run the team? David. |
Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
Sorry if this is not what you want to hear. Midgets are O.K... but much rather watch full size sprinters or big cars any day of the week though. Winged or Non winged. Just my humble opinion.
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Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
Originally Posted by Rpracing1: David. |
Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
I'm having a difficult time understanding why race fans would get on a public message board and tell cars owners to stay home. I don't get it. Be careful what you wish for............
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Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
Originally Posted by DonMoore10: Always glad to see you at the track and hope to see you more in 09 Don. :thumb |
Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
Ovalmeister I do enjoy your posts.I remember 33 cars starting the hut 100.What a site.As far as why midgets are more expensive.????.I was once told by someone probably 5-7 years ago that they have littler parts there more expensive to make.Uhhhh what?They obviously arent making them right if there more expensive.You can make 6 radius rods for a midget compared to 4 for a sprint car.But it costs more to make 2 more cuts.(?)This is what I purpose as I am a midget lover and always have been.I would just love one chance at running a midget.But a micro is as close as Ive been.Instead of complaining and saying this and that lets all on IOW put or thoughts tegether and come up with a series that we think would be affordable for the owner and driver and see what we come up with.Not that I have money to start a club but this is a public board that ANYBODY can read.If I can figure out how to go about the start up cost I would give it a shot at starting a group of midgets.Being winding down somewhat in my racing I think that would be fun.Ill throw some things out there and you guys go with it.But before I do I dont understand what Charles is saying about "watered down" by mini sprints and micros.I being a driver of micros will say we are boring at 1/4 mile tracks.Dont understand why they even run us.It should be during snack bar time.But have you been to a 3/16 like logansport or anything we normally run on?If you ever get a chance to strap in one get back on here and tell me how watered down it was.Ok.Motors in midgets need to be sealed as of focus.What is it $7,000 for a brand new motor.And you can run one for a year or more.Tires as you guys have said are an issue.Run any tire you like,American Racer,Hoosier what ever as long as it durometer's so much.In micros its durometer 40.Which is a 30 hoosier.Not sure about American racer.Every tire gets marked at the beginning of hot laps.You run that tire all night.What is your thoughts on chassis?Nothing newer than 2 years old?Then you also have pay.I personally run at peru.Reason being its $25 a pit pass (actually $20 and $5 for the car)If you make the feature last place pays $25 dollars.Yeah you spend gas money traveling and fuel for the car but that is to finish last in the feature.I do believe that a payout for a $1000 to win race should look something like $1000 for 1st.$850 for 2nd.$650 for 3rd.$450 for 4th.$300 for 5th.$175 for 6th.$150 for 7th.$125 for 8th and $100 for 9th and 10th.$75 for 11th thru 15th and $50 for the rest of the field.Now if I have that figured right that for a 20 car field would be $4475.I think thats feesable with a sponsor or two and the right person working with people.WARNING. These are just ideas dont put me on a stake for something I was thinking.
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Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
Originally Posted by DonMoore10: Anyway, the tires are a lot different than any other part of the race car, it is the single thing that is in contact with the race track. Tires, unlike almost any other part of the race car, can give a car such an advantage that it really doesn't matter what you do with your chassis, shocks, oil or wheels. Tire deals with one manufacturer is not a new concept, I don't care what type of racing you are talking about ... NASCAR, IndyCar, F1, ARCA, etc. Isn't one of the reasons for having a single tire manufacturer to keep the cars more equal thus having better competition on the track for the FANS. Maybe I am wrong ... My point about all the fans in the stands is that if all those people are in the stands ... it will be easier to get sponsors ... more money will come into the sport, which means teams will be able to spend even MORE money ... therefore increasing the cost. I am sorry I look at midget racing from a positive standpoint and truly appreciate the great racing we have today. I refuse to believe that all the organizations and all the drivers that support them without complaining are stupid and part of some Purple Conspiracy. |
Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
How does everyone running the same thing make racing better? Look at Napcar and the joke its turned into. Next thing is they'll all be driving Honda motors.
Yeah its true for the most part sprint car racing is small block chevy based on where there are tons of parts ect available making it cheaper. Its also harder on midget motors. The compression rates these cars are running today. Step hard on the brake you stall the car.... Still I think there are more competitive cars today than say 15 years ago. The shame of it is, You can barely get a full field. Chuck |
Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
So??What are you saying?Make it a steel block and use whatever make you would like?Just make the injectors a certain size to not maximize a certain size or to make it whatever make with whatever injectors and not to exceed a certain hp?
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Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
hey man nothing wrong with a honda, i've had a honda 4-wheeler thats been through alot and it still keeps going. i've only seen one midget race( powri at haubstat last year) and i was sold on them as putting on a heck of a show. on the tire thing we've ran mc creays sp? numerous times on our mini sprint and there just about better than any hoosier or AR we've run, in my eyes the spec tire rule is hurting the sport. look at f1 two brands and the best racing going :checkered:
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Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
Im thinking the American Racer is the old McCreary.How or where did you get McCreary's?So I have one that says a sealed motor isnt the way to go and one that says a spec tire is hurting the sport.Anybody else.Just looking for input from everyone.Somebody should shurly be able to come up with some good ideas out of all of us on here.Instead of wondering what we should do we need to discuss it and come up with what we think we think would be best and go from there.
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Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
Originally Posted by IndyBound: Was really fun although I spent my 17th birthday sitting alone in the motel while my crew went to some bar that Bob new about. They did bring me a cheeseburger back as a birthday present!! :doh: I will say one thing though in that every one of them were very friendly and willing to help us out any way they could. |
Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
Originally Posted by indywally: |
Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
First of all this post is sort of off topic, but...Don Moore really knows how to light ignite a fire, right? Of course I should talk. I was the first responder to this thread.
Additionally, Don said this thread is for fans only. I have a feeling that more than just race fans may have responded to this.:confused: Some people have been graded on their post. How about me school instructor Don? I want a grade too. It should be at least a "C" for handing in my homework first.:O: BTW Don, you seem to have a varied life, career, and hobbies. I'd like to know what took you down all these different paths. You know, racing, music, teaching, etc. I'm not being a smart a$$ about this as I usually am. I'm genuinely interested in your story. I enjoy hearing about the paths people have chosen in their lives and what made up their mind on which way to go when they got to the fork in the road. Thanks. |
Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
Just from meeting him I know hes missunderstood. He wants to be able to keep racing and racing competitively at a top notch level which he does. Rarely but still shells out $$ to do it like everyone else. Seemed pretty nice to me. Pitched in and sung the National Anthem.
As a fan the problems I see is no Major Indiana-Ohio sanction and no coordination between different midget orgs. To go anywhere and race, You have to have near top notch equiptment as the major sanctions still run pretty much as much money as you can put into em cars. Maybe if the Silly bowl went under the new ASCS rules then youd have some coordination to match it. Just some thoughts. |
Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
Well... you get an A for being the first to venture out on this thread. That's like sitting upfront in the classroom or church. You ask about my background, so here goes:
Educator: I went to Kent State University, Kent, OH on a music scholarship. I have 2 degrees from Kent, including a Master of Arts in Teaching plus 60 post hours at Ohio University. My undergraduate degree is in organ (pipe organ) performance. I taught music in the public schools for 35 years. My years of teaching are best remembered by the community for over 40+ rock and pop music productions. I also promoted, produced and directed a community benefit concert for cancer research for 12 years. Some posters on here have taken cheap shots at my teaching career. For the last evaluation, I received the highest rating in all catagories. Music business: Leader of a party/dance contemporary band 22 years. Started entertaining in nightclubs at age 12. Recorded two LP record albums during that time. Composer/arranger/lyricist/author 1983-present. Over 600 published choral titles published by Alfred, Warner Bros., Columbia Pictures, Hal Leonard and several others. Author of 9 published books. Member of ASCAP. Recipient of the ASCAP Composers ASCAPlus Award for 21 years in a row. In 2003, named by the American Choral Directors Association as one of 400 of the most influencial choral composers in the history of American music. Racing: Two of my uncles drove stock cars. Bob Moore drove new cars in the MARC (ARCA) new car series. Drove quarter midgets (.25) in the late 50's. Ohio State Quarter Midget champion in 1959. Avid fan of midgets, sprint cars, championship cars. Formed Moore Racing Enterprises LLC in 2002. Owner of 3 full midgets, 2 dirt cars and 1 indoor car. The indoor Beast is a historic car as it was custom built for Kenny Irwin, Jr. Drivers that have driven my cars: Tracy Hines, Jerry Coons, Jr., Donnie Beechler, Kevin Olson, Geoff Kaiser, Davey Ray, Brad Kuhn, Shane Hollingsworth, Greg Lueckert, Ryan Scott, Andy Pierce. Visit my web site for more info: www.donmooremusicpublications.com |
Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
Uhhhhhhhhh........Just slightly off topic.............Call each other if you want to exchange personal info................
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Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
He asked about my qualifications for posting on here. It was a fair and friendly question by Seadog. Don't read my posts if you don't like em. Real simple.
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Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
Originally Posted by DonMoore10: P.S. I also am a big fan of pipe organ music and listen to the radio show "Pipe Dreams" whenever I can. |
Re: For Fans Only: Feedback About Midget Racing
Originally Posted by micro94: We just bought two brand new mc crearys last year, if the track slicks off mc crearys r the way to go i cant remember right off hand where we got them but they where a bargan |
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