Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

I've joined a lot of organizations over the years. When I was a public skool teacher, I was always a member of the teacher's union (called an "association" in Ohio) and I'm currently associated with a health plan organization which calls for a monthly payment to stay in good standing. Now there is no question in my mind about the benefits of these two organizations. Both publish a detailed book that explains coverage and benefits from A to Z. In fact, I just received in the mail a few days ago a 45 page booklet explaining from top to bottom what my health insurance payments cover. No stones left unturned with these people.

Also in recent mail came a "plea for fees" from one of the midget orgs. Yeah, they want me to send them $XXX.XX to "register". OK so far. Now what am I "registering" for anyway? It says on the paper that I get to keep my same number. Well, my "number" hasn't changed since I bought my first race car in 2002. So that's not worth $XXX.XX. It also says that I get a provisional if I'm in the top ten in points but the org will deduct last place money from my winnings. Well, that leaves me out, I've never been in the top ten and that deduction is no bargain.

That's it on the paper. I can't find any other reasons to "register". Now at the bottom of the paper it says for more info go to the web site. Fair enough. The web site says that I'm eligible for "championship points". Uh....... what do I get with these points? Hum....... is this like the credit card points where I get a free dinner at Applebee's? Free vacation? Free flight miles? I always finish near the bottom of the "championship points" so I guess I'm out of luck there. By tradition, most orgs award handouts to the top ten. Who knows with this org. Doesn't say. I'm not writing a check for $XXX.XX for nothing. Maybe I'm still gonna get a bonus check in the mail. The web page also says I'm eligible for "contingency awards if requirements are met". *** is that? I haven't seen any award show up here either. Maybe that's yet to arrive also. I'll check the mail today. The last item says I get secondary insurance. Hmmmm again....... I already have a great health plan so I don't need any secondary health plan.

NOTE: My race team participated this past winter in the Tony Barhorst's indoor Rumble Series. No "plea for fees" to join, a feature payout that pays handsomely from 2nd on back and a great point fund that is published. No questions here about what's what. Great job, Tony!!!

So,that's it, race fans. I don't know. Not much info for $XXX.XX. This reminds me of the Kool-aid line. Apparently all the "championship points awards" and "contingency awards" are a big secret. So... $XXX.XX for what? Well... I don't know and that's why I'm not wasting my money on this.

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

Now that I know this, I will be able to sleep better tonight.:wink

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

Hmm ... sounds to me like they will support you if you support them ... with contingency awards, preferred car #, provisionals, insurance. etc.

Why don't you go run NASCAR if you want to be treated like your Health insurance company or teachers union. It's a midget organization ... they are not bringing in millions like your other examples.

A normal person would have simply contact the midget organization to get the answers ... maybe even attended a meeting. Then, got on the board and made sure everything is done correctly.

Now, who else can we dissect and show just how stupid they are ...

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

Yep, the perfect alternative for me is to form a NASCAR Cup team. No more checks for $XXX.XX for unknown purposes. Great suggestion. I'll check to see if one of those cars will fit in my 14x7 trailer.

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

:doh: "skool" from and ex teacher?

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

Knowing Don, that was probably intentional. Irony and all. (and it's an ex teacher, not and). Or was that intentional? :rolling
David.

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

Ovalmeister: Ur on the right track! hahaha No pun intended. I'm amazed at how these posts fly over the heads on here.... or maybe I shouldn't be amazed.....

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

I know it's been said before several times, but why don't you start your own midget organization and see just how many people run for you. Show everybody just how simple it is ...

You are a owner who runs a few select shows a year. Yet, you complain more than the hundreds of midget owners that actually run full time ... combined.

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

So far I haven't read one serious post about the topic. The new wave educational approach here in Ohio is to teach critical thinking rather than memorization. They've got a long way to go.

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

By serious, I take it you mean someone who agrees with your 100% negative way of thinking?

Good luck with that.

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

Its "skrool" not "skool" and I'll be happy to haul your nascar to the track in my trailer as long as I get to drive the racecar.

Seriously though; I haven't been around as long as most of you have been racing so filter my thoughts with that in mind. I think the midget organizations are being run the way they are simply because "that's the way we've always done it." (I cringe when I hear people say that too.) I don't think there's any conspiracy or malicious acts taking place, its merely the organizations are being run in 2009 just as they were in 1955. One of the race sanctioning bodies I am involved with has had a major leadership change and moved from a midget car owner as president to a marketing agent as the new leader. He has implemented some changes that made some happy and some unhappy. I am going to give him another year or two before I pass any judgment on him though. I am not saying I won't write him with criticism in the mean time; I am just willing to be patient and let him lay out his plan.


The reason your health plan has to be laid out so simply perfect is more than likely the law, not from the goodness of the directors of the organization.


Tony B. could (should) teach a seminar to race promoters about how to do it right. I am not knocking any particular promoter; but stating everyone could learn something from the way he and his staff works to include the entire community in the events.

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

OMG, Mark. You posted on IOW without mentioning my name or race team. This is earth shaking and unprecedented. Yes, and I think the posters on here debate (if you call it that) like it's 1955 instead of 2009. I hope none of the debate team advisors are looking on here to recruit candidates.

Yes, Barhorst. He knows how to do it and listens to improve his product that he presents to the public.

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

Tony's stock has raised on here somewhat since Midget Week.

To Tony's credit he kept his commitment with the teams that stayed, but that was a complete failure on all sides.

He is a promoter and this sport is lacking in those.

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

Naw.. that post was all fact and 100% positive. Facts don't lie. What's positive? Hey, I've got $XXX.XX in my pocket and they don't.

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

You call that positive? I would hate to see something negative.

And you were a teacher? No wonder we are all screwed ...

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

How about on your next post you put your name with it? It sure is easy to bash people hiding behind a keyboard and monitor with your name no where in sight.

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

I too commend Tony on his promotions over the winter months. The only thing I question is how successful he would be trying to promote 20 races over the course of say 4 months all the while competing for spectator dollars against many other organizations and tracks across the region.

Please don't take that as a dig towards Tony, because I have always supported his indoor shows either as a participant or a spectator. He's first class all the way!!

It's a tough world out there right now and we're slowing loosing butts for the seats we need to fill.

Jimmy Anderson

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

An interesting article recently was published in the Cleveland Plain Dealer about the Cleveland Clinic. For those that aren't familair with the Cleveland Clinic, this is world class hospital bar none. In the article, it was announced that ALL DOCTORS on the Cleveland Clinic staff are required to devulge ANY KICKBACKS or FAVORS, agreements etc with ties to medical equipment, drugs etc.

Hmmmmm...... Now in the racing world we have..... let's see...... oh yeah... the purple tire deals........... the tire monopoly.......... Hmmmmm

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

Have you seen the latest issue of Sprintcar and midget magazine? It has a full page add from Americna Racer in it (as I took it) calling out Hoosier.

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

Yes, I saw that. The midget org execs ignore that page. Wouldn't want to ruin their reputation for keeping the costs of midget racing at an all time high.

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

Don you mention a couple of times that you are never in the top 10 etc. I want to make it VERY CLEAR to everyone that not only are you in my top 10 you are #1 in my book!

In fact I am a charter member of the "I Like DonMoore10 Organization/Union/Club". :respect:

If you have not heard it is a club that doesn't require a membership fee. :O: But in return you get countless laughs:O:, many rolled eyes :rolleyes:and a fair amount of heartburn :headbang all free of charge for time one invests to read the posts of the clubs name sake.There is one slight catch though, you have to swear alegiance to Tony Barhorst as your favorite promoter and support his events, assuming you can get into the parking lot and not get run over by all of the rigs that are leaving the pits. Which makes me wonder...if Tony required membership fees could he have used his union fees to make fixes at the track prior to race day?

My old buddy old pal DonMoore10 reminds me of National Lampoons Christmas Vacation...he is the "gift that keeps on giving!"

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

Can we get back on topic........

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

... the teacher says, as he taps his pointer on the desk. lol

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

now THAT is funny ... :rolling

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

:respect:EP:respect:
Funniest post I have read in a while.

Now on topic. You pay membership fees to be able to take adavantage of their insurances. What do you need insurance for? ask mccreadie or biro... I bet they are both wishing they had insurance right now.. (NOT A SHOT OR BASH IN ANYWAY TO EITHER DRIVER)

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

The insurance offered by the soliciting midget org is SECONDARY INSURANCE. If you are in the racing business and don't have insurance... well...

There is ZERO info on this midget org site about the secondary insurance being offered. I would have to say that 95% of the people that race have good primary insurance policy. Sorry, the secondary insurance is not a compelling reason to join this midget org, IMO.

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

It amazes me how all the people on here bash Don about everything he says. I do not agree with every thing he says, but he is at least standing up and proudly claiming who he is and speaking the truth. I would like to see what kind of racing experience most of his bashers have. Probally none past sitting in the stands. Not only midget racing but racing as a whole is wayyyyyy to expensive! All Don wants to do is participate in the sport we all love and not go broke doing it. I have two racecars sitting in my garage but can't even afford to race them with out help from an outside source. I would like that to change, hell if it was cheaper then maybe some of those who are the bashers could afford to race to! If more people could learn to look at things with an open mind and stand up for what is right or wrong something productive could come from all of this. Just my two cents, now let all the smart ass comments begin!


Bob Shutt

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

Racer 12:"Not only midget racing but racing as a whole is wayyyyyy to expensive! All Don wants to do is participate in the sport we all love and not go broke doing it."

I am "just a fan" and I agree with some of what Don says. However going on a message board and what some see as "bashing" an organization probably doesn't build a lot of credibilty or respect to what he has to say.
The benefit of a strong organization would be the ability to leverage sponsorship and sanctioning fees to help with the bottom line, the purse, and name recognition to a product(the quality of racing) Which in turn "should" help the member obtain more money through sponsors and winnings to make a race team at least stay afloat, preferably turn a profit if successful. Without a "business plan" and an organized effort this will never happen. But what the hell do I know I am just a fan in the stands drinking beer and eating dust.

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

So what you are saying is that we as racers should go to the races and go broke with the hope that someday the org. will get their act together. Then maybe then the racers who put on the show can recieve a break in the form of more exposure which will bring more money to us. If we do that there won't be anybody left. Midget racing is not a national sport, it is regional at best. What needs to happen is that changes need to be made so that working people like you and me can afford to support a household an still go race. It is damn hard to race and work a job, then you add on the time it takes to go and contact companies for sponsorship. It is near impossible unless you have a great group of voulunteers.

In no way was I trying to put down fans at all, they are a part of what makes all this possible to do. But all I am saying is that it is easy to hide behind a screen name and talk of something which you have never participated in.

Bob Shutt

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

Bob all I am saying is that without an organized effort to promote this sport the probability of success decreases. If an organization is not able to produce results or benefits for it's members don't support them, support one that does. If one doesn't exist then maybe an active role in an existing hopeful organization or creating yet another one may help. I am not trying to make this sound easy, if it were it would already have been done and everyone would be racing midgets for NASCAR purses.
As for the never participated in, you are correct, this is a message board not an organized meeting. I can talk about hot dogs If I want to.

Jeff Ziesemer

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

"changes need to be made so that working people like you and me can afford to support a household an still go race." ... I do not agree!

I know this is getting off topic (sorry Don), but another thing I am getting tired of is people acting like (National) midget racing should be at the point where everybody should be able to afford to race if they want to. And that cost is killing the sport ... this argument continues to be proven wrong.

This argument has been going on for years and years. I can remember when everybody said Steve Lewis is killing the sport and midget racing was done and the cost is out of control and the sport will die of quickly.

Well, all these years later and midget racing is still going strong.

The Chili Bowl had a record car count, that new Cowtown race had over 40 cars (I think) and the USAC western swing had car counts in the mid to high 30's for each event. All of this in a down economy.

The cost of racing is 100% controlled by demand. If people stop buying, business would have no choice but to lower their prices. But, people are buying and plenty of cars are on the track.

If cost is an issue, run a Focus or some other division that requires a smaller budget. National Midgets are the top tier, and like other forms of racing, not everybody can afford to run the top tier ... be it USAC, World of Outlaws or NASCAR.

Joe Shockley (Sorry I haven't signed before, I always think that my screen name says who I am)

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

Eric,

Many on this board will remember when Don Moore and I were bitter enemies. I think the moderators of this board know that from our past exhanges. It just goes to show how your enemy today can be a friend tomorrow...thats my policy...life is too short to carry grudges forever. That being said...Don has a point....do I agree with him totally on all subjects?...No...Just like he doesn't agree with all of my event details all the time.

I always appreciate your posts and find you very funny....I have taken your zinger in good stride...However...I hesitate to get drawn into this discussion...But in fairness to Union County Speedway..and the Midget Week event I promoted last year...

Just for the record...here are the results from that event. I won't point out which driver said it...but one name driver said of the track " We have raced on far worse tracks"

Notice that Steve Buckwalter won the event...I think a relative of his is the President of ARDC....Now if it was as bad as some say...WHY WOULD HE STAY?

Kevin Olson wrote in Sprint Car and Midget " I saw one of the TOP TEN MIDGET RACES OF ALL TIME at Liberty between Rich Vogler and Sleepy Tripp"

It was that potential that led me to Union County...Was it a mistake...Of course....Did we race...YES....Was it safe...YES. Did we have a good time?....YES

The midget portion of the program was originally scheduled as the second round of of USAC Indiana Midget Week, but safety concerns with the race track by only a few teams prompted the club to not sanction the event. Many teams opted to leave the race track without turning a lap.

Race promoter Tony Barhorst proceeded with the racing, paying the midget drivers the same prize money as if it were a USAC points paying event of Indiana Midget Week. Fourteen midgets remained in the pits to compete and 14 started the feature.
Results:
Sprints
First heat: 1. Jeff Bland Jr., 2. Mike Hess, 3. Blake Fitzpatrick, 4. Kent Christian, 5. Matt Westfall, 6. Cameran McGahan, 7. Travis Hery.
Second heat: 1. Sammy Imel, 2. Casey Shuman, 3. Joss Moffatt, 4. Brandon Whitted, 5. Tony Main, 6. Caleb Armstrong, 7. Jim Gardner.
Feature: 1. Christian, 2. Hess. 3. Bland, 4. Shuman, 5. Armstrong, 6. Westfall, 7. Whitted, 8. Gardner, 9. Main, 10. Fitzpatrick, 11. Imel, 12. Moffatt, 13. McGahan.
Midgets
First heat: 1. Robert Ballou, 2. Steve Buckwalter, 3. Dakoda Armstrong, 4. Casey Shuman. Did not start; Matt Westfall, Ryan Criswell, Levi Jones.
Second heat: 1. Thomas Meseraull, 2. Kellen Conover, 3. Mike Hess, 4. Rex Norris III, 5. Kent Schmidt, 6. Kent Christian, 7. James Sweeney.
Feature: 1. Buckwalter, 2. Hess, 3. Ballou, 4. Westfall, 5. Christian, 6. Armstrong, 7. Schmidt, 8. Norris, 9. Sweeny, 10. Dustin Morgan, 11. Shuman, 12. Meseraull, 13. Conover.

Travis Hery flipped during the first sprint heat. Kellen Conover flipped during the midget feature.

I only post this information to give a TRUE history of what happened at Liberty.

Here is a photo link....Bob Jenkins stayed the entire night and had a good time with family.

http://unioncountyspeedway.com/08-07-08.html

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

The information that I've laid out in this thread is fact and I've given my reaction to this particular org's (they're all alike) request for $XXX.XX. I don't know about the readers on this board, but I don't sit down everyday and write checks for $XXX.XX for reasons that have no benefits.

Fact: It's a deep, dark secret about what's going on behind the scenes in terms of sponsorship money, kickbacks, perks, etc. etc.

Try doing a search on the internet regarding what these midget orgs are rewarding for:

Championship Points
Contingency Rewards if requirements are met
Secondary Insurance
Any monetary rewards

Good luck finding anything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

If you would have read my post you would have seen that I clearly stated that Midget racing is not a national sport. Just putting national behind the name doesn't mean it is. I do not know how much you know of the history of our sport but Midget racing is supposed to be a stepping stone to Sprint cars. You start with smaller cars on smaller tracks and then move on to bigger ones. Don't you think that if more people could afford to race that it would make it better. More racers=more competition=better racing pretty simple. Have you ever looked into how much it costs to go racing a Focus midget or any kind of race car? Midgets are supposed to carry less speed than Sprints and be cheaper to purchase and operate. I know there are guys who have $20,000 to $30,000 invested in a mod. Mini sprints cost just as much as a sprint car damn near. Go carts, $4,000-$5,000 investment to risk your neck with no cage or belts and race with beginers. The best race driver EVER could be out there right now but we might never know of him/her because they did not have a silver spoon in their mouth. A very real possibility.

Bob Shutt

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

One of the posts in this thread discussed national vs. regional and cited the outstanding car counts displayed in Texas, Arizona, Nevada and California in the recent midget swing out west. The president of USAC in a mag interview has stated that he has no intention of reducing the costs of midget racing.

I did some research and it appears that there are 12 actual national midget teams that are currently supporting the USAC series. There may be one or two more or less. Four of those teams fielded two cars. So a total of 15 cars.

So by looking at the statistics, there are 12 teams that can afford to travel around the country, and have at least two midgets, one dirt and one pavement and race for $2500 to win.

There are probably at least 600 midgets sitting somewhere in the just the midwest area and probably at least 3000 midgets sitting somewhere in the United States.

So for the national scene, it appears that out of my estimate of 3000 midgets, only 12 can afford to race all over the country and chase the national midget title.

I, in a million years, could not and would not, spend the money to chase the national title, so I'll never be one of the elite 12 that you see appearing all over the country.

Here is the problem and it's not with the United States Auto Club. The problem is with all the midget orgs around the country, minus a few, that remain tied to the waist of USAC and their rule book and their deals with manufacturers and the purple tire company. It's a monkey see, monkey do, type situation. Whatever USAC decides to do, they do with a few exceptions like ARDC with engines.

Why are they like puppy dogs following their mother? Well, it reminds me of seeing tons of kids in northern Ohio walking around with LeBron James jerseys on their body. They want to be like their big brother, their hero, the big box.

Is there much interplay with all the rest of these regional midgets? Well... approximately 585 teams can't afford to race all over the country. I don't know, but I don't see very many teams (maybe 1 or 2) that venture out of Indiana and run with either Badger or Powri.

So what do we have to chose from? Well...... since these midwest orgs choose to follow the big box, we have regional racing following the big box rules and all the high priced equipment,tires etc that comes with it.

so... don't expect midget racing to change anytime soon until the regional midget orgs decide that they aren't going to be follower anymore. Otherwise, get your wallet out and be prepared to pay just like the 12 National teams do.

The tire deals are killing midget racing, people. Only when the midget community realizes this will midget racing move forward. Why are we paying $140-180 for the purple tires when American Racer tires that last many races can be purchased for around $80? Would you fans in the stands really know the difference if the midgets races with purple tires or American Racers? If not, then why are we forced to buy the expensive tires like the big brothers do?

Now I'm waiting patiently to see how many cars show up at Terre Haute in September.

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

As for EVERYONE being able to race, no, no and NO! I’m getting sick of all the entitlement mentality in America. If you want to race, then work hard and find something you can afford to race. And yes, you will have to make sacrifices if racing means that much to you. I, for one, am NOT from a wealthy family, but racing has been in my blood since my dad raced when he was younger. I went to school, got a degree, a good job, purchased my first kart, and have been racing ever since. Currently, I’m the owner and driver of a midget and sprint-car, much like Don, with no outside help. Do I drive the nicest street-car? Do I the latest big-screen HG TV? Do I have the biggest, nicest house? A big fat NO to all of those questions, but I’m still able to eat everyday and live within my budget.

Back to the original topic, to me orgs./clubs are a very crude union. True, the membership fees/dues do go towards the insurance provided by the org. But, I think some portion of that goes toward the end of year 'point fund' as well. However, this is hardly ever clearly spelled out, as Don stated. Clubs also provide an opportunity to try your hand at other tracks as well. Yes, the idea of the club is to gain credibility and exposure for everyone to bring in sponsors and what-not, but you need to have a consistent group of cars to get that established. And as someone previously stated, midgets are the ‘stepping stone’ to bigger cars so that group is hard to keep. I rather enjoy Mr. Barhorst approach to things, being a promoter before an ‘organizer.’ Much like the local tracks, there is no membership fee, just your entry fee, pit passes, and go racing. He publishes the purse and rules well in advance, so everyone knows what they’re racing for. Speaking of rules, I think that is one thing that needs addressed in all of racing. There are sooooo many rules now to ‘control’ the cost of racing that in the end, make things more expensive. I think we need safety rules/standards, some overall measurements for the class, and that’s it! Run whatever tire you want, whatever motor, and may the best driver/most innovative person win. Haha….I guess Don already touched on that while I was typing this though!

Chad Atkinson

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

Don - The numbers you gave could also be said about the World Of Outlaws, etc. ... how many sprint cars ARE NOT at an average WoO event ... a heck of a lot more than midgets.

And, as far as having 12 teams (15 cars) race for the USAC title, that is also normal for group that runs all over the country. The Outlaws averaged 12 or less full-time teams for years in the past and still had 30+ at almost every race.

As far as "Following Big Brother", that also is used in almost every other form of racing to allow racers to run with other groups or in other parts of the country without having to SPEND MONEY changing the cars to different specs. The fact that it is easy for someone to run wherever they want, is a big selling point for getting a midget. I think it is cool that a guy can run almost anywhere across the country and not have to worry much about his car being legal.

You need to base your rules on something, and with USAC being recognized by most as the premier midget organization ... most base their rules after them. It's just smart business.

Go to a freaking MEETING and get the answers you need, I'm sure it is not top secret. Nobody is required to put all that information on the internet. Thus, giving people one more thing to complain about.

You are pretty much answering your own question by stating that you do not run full time or shoot for the top 10 in points, of course you see little value in joining this organization.

Bob - you said "The best race driver EVER could be out there right now but we might never know of him/her because they did not have a silver spoon in their mouth. A very real possibility." ... this could be said about almost everything in life.

Once again, this is a feeling of "Entitlement" in that you feel that everybody who wants to race a midget should be given a fair chance. Well, I want to drive in NASCAR, should I be given a ride just because I WANT one?

Joe Shockley

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

There are very few midgets that are "crossing the border" these days. Let's not make expensive rules for a few teams.

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

( follow this link to the IRS guideline / definition / ruling )

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/...172833,00.html

--------------------------------------------------------
The link above is offered to make a point. Are you and your activity of choice a business or are you simply engaging in a hobby ?

If you own one midget and a trailer , operate out of your home garage and fund this activity personally ( no sponsor income ) , you probably have a nice hobby that you enjoy very much. Even tho this activity may produce some income , you probably have no expectation of showing a profit.

This guy , as described above , is probably Don Moore and the vast majority of Midget owners today. As Don stated , there are only 12 or 15 National teams.

If you own a $300,000. transporter , lease 25,000 square feet of commercial space , own an inventory of 8 Midgets and employ 12 people who are paid real wages and receive real benefits and having those costs offset by sponsor income , you are definitely a business.

This guy , as described above , are people like Steve Lewis and there's nothing wrong with that.

Perhaps one who conducts an activity that is seen as "hobby" should not expect a voice powerful enough to orchestrate sweeping change. It would seem those business owners are really calling the shots , whether that's good or bad. It just might be their sand box that we're trying to play in.

Don , while we are concerned about the high costs of Midget racing , is it realistic for " hobbyists " to expect to have their activity subsidized by free pit-passes , memberships and tire discounts ? Just a thought ...




:idea:


:action-smiley-049:

Re: Joining Midget Org a Waste of Money
 

I stated earlier that Cowtown had 40+ cars ... how many of those guys "Crossed the Border" from other organizations? A good number of them.

You said yourself that the western races only had 15 full time cars ... in addition to the other USAC and USAC Western regulars ... those races had regulars from POWRi, Badger, AMRA, SSMA, SMRS, BCRA and RMMRA who ran at least one of the races.

These races never would have been that big if the sanctioning groups had their own unique set of rules.