What would you do?
 

You are in charge of a racing organization with a rule that all drivers must be at least 16 years of age.

At the end of the season it is confirmed that you had a driver compete at a majority of your events when he was only 14 years old.

This driver wants to continue to race with your organization next season at the age of 15. (He will not turn 16 until the following year.)

What would you do?

#1) Inform him the minimum age is 16 and when he turns 16 he is welcome to race with your organization.

#2) Put it to a vote of the membership. If they approve changing the minimum driving age to 15 you allow him to race.

#3) Leave the minimum driving age as 16, but allow him to race since he already competed with your organization as a 14 year old.

Re: What would you do?
 

Follow the rules. They got you once but once the truth is out there, the rules have to be followed.

The problem with rules is that not following them once they are put in place is worse than not having them at all.

Re: What would you do?
 

Ban them for life for being dishonest, hold them accountable. Not very many people are held accountable for their deliberate acts. Some are held super accountable for things that would not effect a normal citizen and others are never held accountable for anything in life....

Re: What would you do?
 

Tell him he can come back when he is 17 as he has already had his first year.
:idea::idea::idea:

Re: What would you do?
 

If the rule states that they have to be 16. Follow the rules. Just because they got away with it does not make it ok to race under 16 now.

Re: What would you do?
 

Enforce the rules as written.

Re: What would you do?
 

I wonder if this is a "hypothetical" question. I think not. I'm pretty sure I know who we're talking about.

Re: What would you do?
 

I'd give the little fellow a 2-year suspension

Re: What would you do?
 

:respect:Sam, I'm bettin with you! Bob

Re: What would you do?
 

:O::thumb

Re: What would you do?
 

I'm not so sure now. I checked MSCS's site(no particular reason:rolleyes:) for such a rule, and it states that it will vary from track to track.

Re: What would you do?
 

I agree, but even then him and his parents would have to apply for reinstatement and it would not be automatic. If that kid had been hurt and the insurance only covered people 16 and over....they put a lot of people in a bad situation.

RE: What Would You Do?
 

Re: What would you do?
 

o.k we narrowed it down ,one more clue and we can guess who it is with out saying.:wink

Re: What would you do?
 

I love the :wink smiley. It says "Hey, I think I know who you're talking about, and I agree."

But, for all I know, Sandy's question is purely hypothetical. I'm just a little curious is all.

Re: What would you do?
 

Fine them, remove all points from competition, and put the "butterball" in the oven for a few more years, and then let the turkey race.

Re: What would you do?
 

I would look at what procedures that are being followed(or not) to confirm that the drivers age is being checked. Most 16 yr olds have a drivers license. To protect the organization and all involved I would be more strict on these checks. If he produced false Identification or just lied on an official document I wouldn't let him back. If it was just an oversight of the organization not checking and there have been others exempted from the age restriction in the past I would consider letting him return in 2009.

Re: What would you do?
 

Well.. if he was dishonest, we may see his face on a box of Corn Flakes soon.

Re: What would you do?
 

Mike wasn't dishonest, he was stupid for allowing the picture to exist.

Re: What would you do?
 

I think the kid brought Al Unser Sr to the race with him at Montpelier.:thumb

Re: What would you do?
 

And Lloyd Ruby, at Columbus. Bob

Re: What would you do?
 

I would send him a formal letter stating why the drivers had to be 16yoa. (I assume insurance reasons) tell him he cannot run until he's 16 and will have to prove it then. Next, I would explain to everyone else running that they must have a valid ID issued by the state proving their age so this does not happen again. Require them to give you a photocopy. This is to protect the organization. If nothing happened through the season and he got away with it, let it go. Just step up your enforcement. This was really a mistake of the organization by not covering your a__. CYA, one of lifes lessons that everyone learns eventually.

Re: What would you do?
 

Gotta have rules everyone lives under and pretty even handed penalties as well.

That driver would be suspended for two years. Making his eligibility age 17. One year penalty for participating illegally. One year penalty to make up for the year he participated.

Re: What would you do?
 

OOPS!

I was going to post a poll earlier but then changed my mind. I guess I didn't log out correctly since part of it is still here.

It was going to be multiple choice:

#1) Inform him the minimum age is 16 and when he turns 16 he is welcome to race with your organization.

#2) Put it to a vote of the membership. If they approve changing the minimum driving age to 15 you allow him to race.

#3) Leave the minimum driving age as 16, but allow him to race since he already competed with your organization as a 14 year old.

Re: What would you do?
 

So where are the consequenses in your three choices? Id have no change. Theres a reason the rule is there. Insurance? Safety? If your just going to let him participate from here on out still under 16 then you might as well eliminate the rule entirely.

Chuck, saying the consequences wouldn't only be for the one who broke the rule. But to discourage others from doing it in the future.

Re: What would you do?
 

Any money that was earned last year was recieved under fraudulent surcumstances. Make him pay it back and ban him for life. That type of fraud and deceite would be cause for firing and or go to jail at most jobs.

Or tell him to run for public office!!

Re: What would you do?
 

If I remember correctly wasn't this hypothetical person actually emancipated to show he was 16?

And he also brought Al Unser Sr. to the Columbus kart track also as I have a picture with me standing next to him!

I remember running some road courses in karts and fibbing about my age so I could race. :O:

Re: What would you do?
 

Re: What would you do?
 

I agree with the earlier post of make him wait until he's 17, there has to be a consequence. This underage deal puts a lot of people in a bad liability situation.

Re: What would you do?
 

Jason,

I don't remember if anyone was emancipated or not. I do know the rule stated you had to be at least 16, not you must be at least 16 unless emancipated.

Sandy

Re: What would you do?
 

pretty cut and dry rule, but wait why don't you tell us the real delima, Can your series aford to loose a car. Lets face it he has enough money to race with you, he has enough money to go somewhere else. U penalize, he is gone, probably for good. The message you are telling everyone, we can not enforce this very simple rule, so you know we do not enforce the important rules.

Re: What would you do?
 

Fine them money and points. Suspend him for a couple races or so. Make him wait until he is 16. But if you let the membership vote on the age and it is moved down to 15. Let him race after the fine and suspension.

Re: What would you do?
 

Ban for life, get a backbone and stand up for the RULES hello? I have no idea who you are talking about but I'm willing to bet he is only using YOUR organization to develop skills and get EXPOSURE! Once this driver is old enough he is only going to move on and never give YOUR organization a second thought. I can't believe any organization is on the fence as to what happens when their own rule is broken. Is there fine print in your rulebook: Rules apply to all disclaimer: unless you have a fat wallet.

Re: What would you do?
 

The problem with poles is you want someone to back one of you lame responses to lieing ,fraud and violation of your rules...sounds right..obey only the rules you agree with.A parent should have signed documents -bar that person from any envolement in your organisation..had this kid been injured ,the court could have assigned him an attorney and despite his parents fraud your organization may have been held liable for damages,your failure to verify age might cause any ins. you have to be void.

Re: What would you do?
 

It was me. Come on you guys, you need to grow a set and just say it. And all tq's were was a stepping stone to other things. Hell matter of fact i ran the races in florda when i was 13 ask the Goff's and Ambrose who was the Prez. They didnt have a problem. And yes jake i did have the right papers. AL and Loyd send there reguards

Re: What would you do?
 

you know i think it is ******** you got to run when you were 14 that same year i had gotten a tq for my son to race he was 15 WE DIDNT LIE ABOUT HIS AGE TO UMRA...they said no way shape or form would they allow anyone under the age of 16 to race...so after a while we just gave up on it and went stock car racing then we find out the next year you got to run when you were 14 and all this went down...guess if our last name was puterbaugh and we would have been friends with the goffs we would have gotten to race too

Re: What would you do?
 

I thought you did Billy. I couldn't remember if you had done that when you were still in karts or before you ran the TQ. I won't get into the whole right or wrong stuff though. Those days are in the past and nothing we can do about it now!

Tell your mom and dad I said hello! :checkered:

Re: What would you do?
 

Billy,

Even though I had decided against starting this thread it's still my responsibility. By the time I realized it had been posted it was already 3 pages long. To late to do anything about it.

I will admit when I read your post of your favorite TQ memory it ticked me off. Maybe you didn't mean it as a smart ass comment, just funny:

My fav memory was being kicked out of UMRA TQ's for being to young. So then we got a sprint car and won in my rookie year. Thanks UMRA

I took it as you were saying it was UMRA's fault you couldn't race with them when you were 15.

FYI I would have been OK with Option 1 or Option 2, but never Option 3.

Sandy

Re: What would you do?
 

kick him out, take away any points he had and sue the parents for any prize money he won. tell him to come back when he's 16. period!!! screw the vote!

Re: What would you do?
 

yea but in florida are favorite saying is

WE DON'T CARE HOW YOU DO IT UP NORTH:O: