Indiana Open Wheel - POWRI Sched

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Is at

http://www.powri.com/newsdetail.asp?NewsID=6322

Sorry if this was already posted

7/4 Haubstadt, IN
:respect::applaud::thumb

I wish these guys would run more shows in Indiana. Good car counts and great racing. Haubstadt last year was just spectacular.:thumb

I wish POWRi had been able to make that many appearances at Jacksonville a few yers ago when I could make the races their.

I won't make a single one this year :(

Makes West Burlington, IA on Saturday nights look better and better all the time. :thumb

2009 POWRi Schedule

3/28 DuQuoin, IL

4/24 Jacksonville, IL

4/25 Macon, IL

5/1 Granite City, IL

5/2 Belleville, IL

5/15 Jacksonville, IL

5/16 TBA

5/29 Knoxville, IA - @

5/30 Knoxville, IA - @

6/5 Donnellson, IA

6/6 Moberly, MO

6/12 Granite City, IL

6/13 Belleville, IL

6/19 Jacksonville, IL

6/20 Highland, IL

7/4 Haubstadt, IN

7/8 TBA

7/17 Macon, IL

7/18 Jacksonville, IL

7/26 Cameron, MO * #

7/27 Rising City, NE * #

7/28 McCool Junction, NE * #

7/29 McCool Junction, NE * #
8/12 Belleville, IL

8/21 Macon, IL

9/11 Jacksonville, IL

9/12 Canton, IL

9/13 LaSalle, IL

9/26 Macon, IL

10/3 Belleville, IL

10/8 Granite City, IL

10/9 Granite City, IL

10/10 Granite City, IL

Co-Sanction - @ USAC * SMRS # RMMRA

First of all, I would like to commend POWRi owners Jim Siner and Kenny Brown for developing a midget series and keeping alive the great tradition of midget racing in the St. Louis based area. And they do a great job of presenting their product to race fans. The shows move along in clock like order with generally no nonsense in between. So great job guys in keeping midget racing alive.

I do have some concerns as to where this is all going. If you're like the biggest majority of people in the US, your investments and retirement accounts have been gutted nearly 50%. There is no news that's good news regarding the economy. The St. Louis area has been hit just like every other area in the United States. Since the last outdoor POWRi race in October 2008, the nation has taken a dramatic downturn. Where are all the cars going to come from to support all the races on the schedule? I hope I'm wrong, but, really how much money do teams have (especially after many of them spent $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at Tulsa, OK ) to keep going as in previous years?

Now, I'm speaking for myself and no one else about the following. You two business men (Siner and Brown) are both racers or former racers and are well aware of what it costs to put a midget on the track. Every dime that I spend comes from my own pocket as far as race cars go. I haven't bailed out YET like Kasey Kahne has when his sponsor went away. I have no tire deal, no outside sponsor and my purse winnings are reduced by half since I hire drivers. And I have to travel, with the exception of 6 short track midget races in Indiana (300 miles), 500 miles to race my cars, either to ARDC East Coast, POWRi St. Louis or BMARA Wisconsin. That's a thousand miles at least on my towing equipment for a weekend. Heck, midget teams based in Indianapolis have a heart attack when they have to travel 50 miles out of their way.

My next question is: In view of the terrible economic conditions we are experiencing, what have you two business men implemented to reduce the costs of midget racing? Maybe I missed it, but I haven't read one item (or heard) regarding costs from ANY midget org in the United States. And despite the POWRi schedule and the 293 cars at the Chili Bowl, midget racing is in serious trouble. If you haven't recognized that, you're in denial. If you don't believe me, check out what is going on in Wisconsin. BMARA car counts are down 50% from 1999. And from the number of teams that I have seen bailout recently in that area, where are they going to get enough cars to fill the field???? And that club operates with the exact same rules as the POWRi org.

My unscientific research tells me that most midget owners have a life expectancy of not more than 6 years max. Many are around for only a year or two. If you don't believe me, check back around the early 2000's and see who owned a midget back then and then check the owners presently. I'm now in my 7th year as an owner and the constant high costs are, for the most part, way over the edge.

So how long can somebody like me keep going with this? If you look at the statistics, I guess I need to get out of racing at this point. I don't know. I'm one of a few still hanging on.

Here is what I have seen regarding the internal workings of POWRi.

The purses have leveled out with $2000 to win. After that, the payout drops sharply. Third place money is a disaster.

I paid the $100+ fee last year as a member, partly to get a reduced entry fee perk. The perk suddenly disappeared for the last three 2008 POWRi races. After spending hundreds of dollars in entry fees and pit passes for those three races, I left the track with $50. So for my economic wellness, I'm not joining this time around for the few races that I run with them. Maybe I will park my cars, time will tell. Something has to change.

Why are the owners and drivers being charged for a pit pass and entry fee? We are your life blood, the entertainment that makes money for your company. I was in the entertainment business for 30 years and never once paid for a pass or entry fee to get in the door of the businesses that I worked. Does the track crew and water truck guy buy a pit pass?

I lost count of the number of yellow/black (POWRi) shirts (officials) and red/black (USAC) shirts (officials, and some with street clothes) at Granite City last Fall. Why so many officials? Are these officials working for free? If they are paid, that's overhead not going to the owners and drivers. I don't get it.

I don't have a tire deal with the Hoosier Tire Company and I would assume that most racers don't, so we are forced with the imposed monoply to buy Hoosier Tires at $140-180. Some get them at a reduced cost and some get them for free. If American Racer can sell midget tires for $80 (check out the Illini Racing Series), why are most of us owners forced to buy Hoosier at almost twice the cost? I recently bought tires for my race trailer, a similar size to a midget tire for $56. Why are the Hoosiers almost 3 times that price? I don't get it again.

And lastly, who is checking engines at the POWRi shows? I have been running with them since inception, won several times, and have never seen an engine pumped. Why have rules if you're not checking? I see that several races are co-promoted with SMRS. That org has no engine rules. So POWRi is sanctioning races for their racers with unlimted engine rules. I don't get it again... and again.

it's a nice schedule powri put together

i agree with Don on the pay out. clubs need to restructure the pay out so cars that don't make the main, or finish at the back of the main, leave the track with enough money to help pay the bills. leaving the track after entry fee with 50 dollars is an insult. if you want more cars you are going to have to pay more money at the back. it's a business, race teams need to make money too. i cant afford to leave 100 to 150 dollars at the track every time i show up.

Originally Posted by polecar:
leaving the track after entry fee with 50 dollars is an insult.

Yeah and that's after my car and driver (plus about half the field) entertained the crowd for POWRi and the promoter for four nights. The French Fry guy at Mac's gets paid better.

It's definitely an expansive schedule.
I'm happy to see that POWRi is not running against the big Angell Park races, the Hall of Fame weekend and the Firemen's Nationals. Hopefully a good number of their guys will trek north for that.

On the other end of the scope, it's pretty tough to see a race going against the Hut Hundred again this year, especially one like the Knowles Memorial. That's going to make it even tougher to draw a respectable field at Terre Haute. And, even though it probably won't cause such a problem with car count, the races against Indiana Midget Week bring a really tough decision. I'd love to hit that weekend, and I realize that's a yearly date for POWRi at Little Belleville, so it is what it is...(and I just realized that the Granite City race includes sprint cars too - quite a night on the new Tri-City!)

I'll look forward to heading out for McCool again this year, and I hope to see a full pit area for that one, too. That's been a really great event in the two years I've gone. Might try to include Rising City and Cameron on the way, too. We'll see.

Dang, that's a big schedule!!

Originally Posted by Kirk Spridgeon:
Dang, that's a big schedule!!

You have to give POWRi credit for promoting and scheduling midget races on short dirt tracks that are user friendly for midget racing. They've done a heck of job in that department. Quite a contrast to the big box spend spend org with the pathetic 4 short track races in Indiana and not one short track dirt race in Ohio.

Don, Just what is the payout for the Powri series? I agree with your pay structure point of view. It's always been my belief that when running a special touring series, sometimes a top heavy payout has been beneficial to bring in a few more cars because everyone including myself has said " whats it pay to win". But the fact is this series has quite a few committed racers and ones that are capable of putting on a very good show by themselves so why not take care of everyone a little more. Most of the time those who win the big money arent exactly the ones who are short on funds anyhow.

also, what does it cost per night as far as the entry fees, average pit pass and etc.

Shane Cockrum

For a regular show, if you don't win, don't expect much, especially if you finish third on back. Even 2nd I think pays $1000 or $1200. Third I think is about $750, possibly less. I'm not sure right now but by the time I pay a driver and pay the outragious Hoosier Tire Company prices, I'm in the hole big time. We finished 2nd in the points in the indoor Rumble Series and 100% of my take went to Hoosier. ***.

POWRi charges an entry fee. $30 if u are a member, $20 if you're not. Pit pass is usually $25 or $30. The entry and pit pass scheme at the Gold Crown Nationals was off the charts. Once again, I think it is way over the edge to be charging car owners and drivers, who are the stars of the show, a fee to enter the race track. Joe the water truck guy doesn't pay for his pit pass. Is that who the fans come to see? Do you pay an entry fee to get into your work place each day? why not? That's what's going on at the race track.

Owners and drivers are getting ripped off across the country with this practice.

Don,

I'm not a lawyer but it seems to me if you let drivers in for free you might open up some liability issues if they were ever injured.

I'm also not a promoter but I think every competitor should be assured of receiving his pit pass monies and entry fees back as some sort of "tow money." If pit passes are $25 each and you have a $30 entry fee every car should be assured of $80 minimum in purse (owner & driver pit pass + entry fee). And I think that should be for all classes.

Sandy

Everyone signs a waiver when they enter the pits as far as I know. If there has to be a fee, which I'm having a hard time understanding why, $1 would work for me. Does the water truck guy and pit stewards sign a waiver and buy a pit pass???

Regarding returning the entry and pit pass fees: An Owner/driver could potentially walk away from the track with more money in his pocket than someone who qualified to race for purse money.

Interesting that there are tons of promoters that read the posts on IOW and not one of them has stepped forward to tell us why they are charging drivers/owners a fee to enter the track. I can think of a few prominant race execs that only come out of hiding to comment on posts that are in their favor. I invite the big box execs to come on here and tell us why they are charging, for example, an entry fee. I'm looking forward to reading it.

Why is a pit pass more money than the gate admission? Most pit areas at tracks are the "pits" literally, especially the ones with dust storms. These track owners need to visit places like Paducah International Speedway ( a dirt track ) that have a dustless and attractive pit area. Heck, they even have a guy paid to just hose down the dirt entrance area to the track. If we have to pay a pit fee, they can at least make it tolerable to be there.

Seems to me that the promoters can still make money form the back gate from all the rest of the people in the pits. Owner/drivers probably make up only a small portion of the people who buy a pit pass.

Don, I do not want to say ANYTHING bad about POWRi at all, but I will add here, if there was anything different with the pay-out, I might plan on making a few more races with the club too. I can understand rewarding those that have the skills and have put the effort into making themselves succesful, but anything can happen at the racetrack. It is a comfortaning to know if you have a problem, you might get more than $50 (I can only hope the practice of good pay-outs continue with BMARA).

But who are we to argue? 281 guys ran the "Silly Bowl" without any indication of what they might be paid (unless you were couting on winning). I'm sure the pay-out in the back of the field worked out to be less than $50per day!

I will also too mention my appreciation of the work POWRi puts into the club and the fact that they do schedule races at some of the real "racey" tracks like Macon, Bellville, DuQuoin, etc. I just wish I did not live around 5 hours away!

Jason Dull
815 494 6002
jdull99@hotmail.com
jasondull.com (For all the Racing News)

July 4th at Haubstadt is against the ASCS at Presleyland in Chandler a few miles away. Was wanting to hit the later but since that is a two nighter I may just hit Fri. there and go to the Class Track on Sat. Hopefully it's co-sanctioned with MSCS.

Originally Posted by jdull99:
281 guys ran the "Silly Bowl" without any indication of what they might be paid (unless you were couting on winning). I'm sure the pay-out in the back of the field worked out to be less than $50per day!

Not going to go into detail, but the 281 (293?) teams that show up there are a big problem for legtimate outdoor midget racing. For starters, setting a very, very, very bad example of what midget teams are willing to tolerate: Example: worst midget purse based on the income of the promotion. So the midget community has no one to blame but themselves. You can't have both ways.

These threads are always fun because they show Don Moore's true intentions:

He wants everyone to pay but him. I wonder what his crew members think about his "I shouldn't pay but the crew should" attitude?

.....if he only had a crew. Normally Don shows up at the track with his race car and 2 beautiful Boxers. And I imagine they work pretty cheap.....:D

Yeah.. they do the laundry and cook the meals... sweep the motorhome out once in awhile. They also wonder when 6157 will ever post anything intelligent on the subject.

From the looks of the POWRi schedule,it looks like I will be spending a fair amount of time in Illinois this summer. Lots of those nights I could be watching races closer to home,but POWRi always seems to have good midget races everywhere they go.

From my view:

With attendance and sponsorship money expected to be down this year...how exactly could promoters feel comfortable letting drivers and owners get into the gate for free? The only feasible way to let drivers/owners in for free would be to lower the purse...which case everyone would complain even more that they race for little to no money. If you're going to let the owner in for free you might as well not charge anything...how can you determine who the owner is? What if there are multiple owners? All of a sudden you'll find everyone is an owner.

Lets face it, auto racing has come down to the facts that there are very few ways to police rules fairly or to make it "equal" for everyone....with that in place, its going to be very difficult to keep costs down. It will be even tougher to make rules that will satisfy everyone.

Tire rules will never make anyone happy. I'm certain it was a good financial decision by powri to allow hoosier to be required for their events...which at this point if it helps powri put on a show then so be it. I've been to every belleville, il powri show and the car counts are strong...if not growing every time...so I'm not sure thats ultimately hurting the sport.

The chilibowl has been successful despite the purse for the fact that its become a prestigious event, its a dirt event that works with alot of drivers schedules and allows racers from all forms to attend. Where else can you find an event with the best drivers of winged/nonwinged sprints, modifieds, late model, nhra, nascar and midgets in one event? In addition the chilibowl has put a good spotlight on drivers who are trying to make it in the sport...which never hurts.

Just my thoughts...
--Robert

If someone really wants to control the cost in midgets, they need to look at the blue prints of the successful 305 sprint car series. There was a nice write up in NSSN a couple of months ago. However, they require a lot of things that people don't like.

Spec engine with a Spec head. If I remember correctly, the engine has to be sealed by a series official.

Weight rules. No light weight parts.

Spec tires.

The pay structure is a lot different. First place is only around $400 dollars, but it pays $250 to start.

Finally, you have to realize that you are limiting your choices. 305 cars don't compete with 360's or 410's. So your "spec" midget will not compete with the USAC or POWri shows.

I assume that the last two people that posted are not midget owners. I'm finding it interesting that several that have posted are hunting for excuses to defend some of the practices, lack of enforcement of rules, etc etc. It goes back to "that's the way it's always been done" aura. I can't believe that a promoter/midget org is going to go out of business by eliminating the owner/driver entry fee and pit pass. If that's the case, then it further points out why midget racing is in trouble, or for that matter, short track racing in general.

Beside engines, tires are the most expensive item for an owner. We race with a monopoly, forced to buy one tire brand, while the Indiana tire company pays big bucks to stay in the door of which the overwelming majority of cars owners never see. I've explained this before on here, but I fail to see why I must pay $140-180 for Hoosier tires while others get them at a reduced cost and some, probaby for free, all under a forced monopoly. American Racer sells midget tires for $80. Some off brand street tires cost less than that. Why are we forced under the monopoly to buy tires at twice the cost of other brands. I don't get it. Who's looking out for who here???

You people are going to wake up some morning down the road and discover that midget racing has been eliminated. You can keep singing about the Chili Bowl and maybe that will be the last midget racing you will see in the United States. It may be already too late in Wisconsin where one of the strongest midget programs existed for the last 50 years.