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Flo Increases Prices in 2025
Just got my 2025 renewal email and yearly pricing going up to $179.88. Just a heads up for everyone, still a great value in my book.
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Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
How much do the tracks get?
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You are correct sir. I have my limit’s but considering I paid 150 for basically only USAC, this is still a great value. And still less expensive than DV
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Originally Posted by jdull99: |
Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
Originally Posted by jdull99: |
Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
It was inevitable that their membership price would eventually go up. Staff, hotels, vehicles, transportation costs, camera equipment and all the production costs. Multiple series, dirt and pavement. Writers, columnists, and special features, especially on the Dirt of Dirt side. Yes, I'm like others, hoping the tracks get a bigger cut. Clearly when a race like the pavement Snowball Derby switches to FLO, that should tell you the value they see. For just over .50 cents a day, I'm happy to pay. Plus, look at all the other sports FLO covers. We forget about that.
Amazing as soon as I made the above comment, I got an e-mail from Dirt Vision offering a $50 discount for a new membership. Streaming wars. |
Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
and the tracks will continue to keep closing............
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Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
Originally Posted by Charles Nungester: |
Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
Originally Posted by Stevensville Mike: |
Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
Originally Posted by Charles Nungester: Like I said, like it or not this is the foundation of American business. If Flo is going to run these guys out of business, Flo is going to have to help them stay afloat. The tracks are Flo Racing's bread and butter, so to speak. Flo needs them. Eventually this monetary requirement will be passed on to us, the viewers, as rates will go up. An interesting dynamic. What I find just as interesting is, for example, all of the USAC races are on Flo. So for those events the tracks have to rely on Flo's money along with what gate money there will be if the gate money in fact takes a hit due to Flo. But there are some TRACKS that are always on Flo. Lincoln Speedway in Pennsylvania, for instance. I think every week they are on Flo. How do they keep the gate money up there and the seats full? Oh. By the way, Happy New Year guys and gals! Let us be glad we were not on Bourbon Street last night and send good vibes to everyone down that way who were affected. |
Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
Originally Posted by Charles Nungester: |
I watch parts of the shootout, most of the chili bowl, all usac sprints and silver crown races on FLO. There’s a ton I don’t watch obviously….that said they’re a long way from a price that would make me reconsider. In fact, I’d probably pay the annual membership just for chili bowl.
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Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
Originally Posted by Grocery Guy: Gas City Now Gone THAT several times Bloomington four promoters in ten years? Burg. PRP who still had LUCAS and All star races this year with FLO but lost DTWC. Take your pick. No, Not all of it's from FLO. But it's not helping. at least at current royalty payments. I got no clue what the real numbers are for Royalties to the tracks. But they hold the event, The sanction operates it and the racers are the reason the viewers watch. Kevin Miller in his 2023 Banquet speech gave some numbers such as 50k viewers per USAC Race 2hrs 27 minutes timestamp https://www.floracing.com/events/114...aying=11628088 And almost 150k for the BC39 Almost 374 million total views for the season. I also don't know what the royalty is. But I was told by two promoters that they almost never made a profit and often lost on Local shows and the only way they could do local shows was selling track and class sponsorships. That they're specials (Both mostly USAC) is what made promoting and operating worthwhile. Don K of Perris said they paid 1000 per race and that he was losing 400-600 attendees per FLO shown event. This led to most of the other USAC/CRA tracks kicking FLO out If a tracks losing 11,000 worth of attendance in a event how does that make it possible to operate? That's just gate. Not concessions, souvenirs, parking (Which perris charges) Other series and tracks are dropping flo. Anderson, 500 Sprint tour and others. Im sure it cost flo a bit to put a two man crew and announcer at all the races I don't know what it is. But whats fair compensation to the tracks? Put it dollars and cents terms. Flo gets 50% cost, tracks and sanctions the other 50%? If a USAC Race has 50k viewers does 20Cents a view sound fair to the track? IDK, It's mind boggling and I know it's the future, Right now it's a slowly sinking one because In my mind, Most of this money is going to races just for flo and not spread among what made flo successful in the first place. I was told by a former promoter that they thought racing would come down to a couple of dozen tracks. Mostly all owned by the sanctions and that each sanction would lease the others tracks to hold events. As I said, Im probably wrong on some of it, What I know I'm not wrong on is Im seeing many tracks that regularly had two to four thousand in the stands almost every week, Had 30plus car counts every week, Now many are gone or run very limited special events only and only a top Sprint or LM class most bi weekly for those running weekly.. I can sit here any race nite and watch people posting pictures on facebook of them watching two or three races at the same time on two or three TV's or watching on their decks. The tracks and the racers are the one's that suffer. Without the gate or fair compensation. They will cease to exist. Been watching racing or over 55yrs, My childhood racers racer just passed (Wilkerson) I don't post this stuff to boost my ego. I post it because I care. Less tracks will mean less memories for others. It was always a family affair until recently. Still got to watch midget week at Burg (But there were 50K watching on FLO) with Dad last year (Two of the few who saw it in person) It kept me out of trouble in my teens and twenties watching or working on race cars and it's one of the few in person sports or activities I still enjoy today at 60 Visit in person if you can, Good, bad or so so, it's always a memory you can share. I blame a lot of things, The cost of everythngs gone up and the gate haven't matched it. But Flo is one of them. If it's taking away from the front gate because people are watching it rather than attending. It's not FLO that's hurting. It's the tracks. |
Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
Originally Posted by TQ97: |
Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
"Other series and tracks are dropping flo. Anderson, 500 Sprint tour and others"
Maybe Flo dropped them? :16 |
Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
Originally Posted by Grocery Guy: NASCAR has deals with TV networks, then makes sure the tracks get a piece of the pie. Some sanctioning bodies have a deal with FLO, and I have yet to have one promoter tell me that they get a piece of that pie. |
Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
Originally Posted by B99: This discussion came up quite a few years ago and we batted back and forth is Flo good for our sport or bad for our sport. It is good for me for I can sit here and watch things without going to the track. Like buying off of Amazon or eBay without going to the store. It is bad for the track for I am not going there and buying a ticket. Like not going to the store and buying off of Amazon or eBay. Choose your side, '99. I think Flo has the leverage and the tracks will eventually take the bath. But hypocritically speaking, I enjoy watching Flo. |
Still a good price. I can remember paying $75 for 3 day shows many times. Dirtv and some others don't have many races for your $ If u watch a lot of races on flo it is a great deal. Less than a dollar a show.
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Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
Originally Posted by B99: |
Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
Originally Posted by Charles Nungester: The tracks don't close because of Flo and DV. Lets take a look here in Indiana at our own case study, Gas City, since it is the latest track to fade away. The only time Gas City was on Flo was when USAC came to town. Stands, pits, and parking lots were full during those shows. Tracks need to look at streaming as an opportunity. If every time a national series comes to town and a good show is put on then maybe a few extra people may show up to a weekly show to come check the track out in person. Or maybe they will come to the next national series show in person because the last program was exciting. I am at the track every weekend possible. When I can't be at the track, I like to watch USAC on Flo and occasionally High Limit. Some times I am at the track and still watch USAC at another track on my phone from the pits when I can. I also will occasionally watch NARC stuff when I am up too late. That isn't robbing the track of a paying fan, because I am not in California, but if I do make it out there and have a free night and am close enough to a track I might check out a NARC show because I have seen the tracks and am familiar with some of the cars/drivers because of Flo. Justin Fiedler of Dirtrackr has discussed this off and on the past few years. "People have three options when it comes to consuming dirt racing. They can either go to the track, they can watch it online, or they can do nothing. If for whatever reason they first option doesn't happen, either through distance, cost, or anything else - if you give track and series people the choice would you rather those fans not at the track watched online or didn't consume the sport at all? To me the answer seems pretty clear; I'd rather they were doing absolutely anything to be involved versus nothing at all." I've included a link to the video so you can watch his discussion further. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOtO...nnel=DIRTRACKR |
Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
Originally Posted by Grocery Guy: THAT, IDK DA. USAC, Sargent,Kokomo, Spiker, Rose and The local crew that did the wall, lighting and concessions upgrades (Think they just walked away from it after they did it) enough turnover to call it healthy? I don't think so. I go to races about every week too, But I can't travel at current time and races I'd normally make I watch on flo. and just because the track is the one holding the event I'm watching. I would expect them to be fairly compensated. It's 30 dollars (31 in THAT's case) the track is not getting from me in person plus 5-15 dollars in concessions I'd of probably spent. |
One of my closest friends were there. Thankfully he missed it. Prayers to those affected
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Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
Originally Posted by jonboat15: Other #s I am curious: How many really watch each race? The article where Larson implied there would be one series (from the WoO / HL deal) one day; I believe mentioned 100,000 per race. What #s does USAC bring in (I see the 50K # mentioned on this thread...I would blv that)? Tulsa? Anything else? Post them if you got them (legit source #s). AND; has anyone figured out: How many that find racing online; turn into ticket buyers? |
Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
That's a great question. With the advent of streaming, it's an interesting question but one that probably can't be answered.
A) How many paying fans are tracks losing folks choose to just stay home and watch or watch the replay? B) How many new fans and future on track site paying fans is streaming creating because of new visibility? Personally, I don't believe streaming is a major factor in local tracks closing. A factor, perhaps, but not the major. Society changes is a factor. Folks just have a lot more options, things to do on a weekend night. but for me, I believe the biggest issue is track management and poorly ran shows. Look at Kenny Dobson in Jacksonville, Il. Dude is a killer promoter. He communicates extremely well with his fans, runs a tightly ran show with not 5+ divisions running. And gets fans out by a decent reasonable hour. Now of course there are nights when things happen outside of a promoters control - weather, bad accidents, etc. But how many times have you been to a show and watched families pick up their lil kids around 11p or after and have to leave before the promoted feature race hits the track? I've seen it countless times. The track 2,3 local division features BEFORE the promoted (let's say) the $5k to win sprint feature. Then they take "brief intermission" and end up starting the sprint feature a lil before midnight. Dobson (Jacksonville) doesn't do that and they are doing open and doing well. Yet, I could list by name the number of tracks who did run their shows that way and they are no longer around. Flo may be an issue. Hard to know without facts about the money. But poorly ran shows hurts more IMO Originally Posted by brown11b: |
Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
Originally Posted by Vookie: 500 sprint tour is on DirtVision now |
Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
I understand everyone's concern about where the money is going, but we have to be real about this situation. Tracks were closing before Flo became such a big deal. It wasn't streaming that was hurting the business. It was the tracks themselves. I'm by no means a world traveler, but I love dirt racing and try and visit a new track every year. I've been to about 50 dirt tracks in 10 different states. I've walked out of several wondering how they stay open. Poor food, ****** bathrooms(pun intended), wasting time, etc. The tracks have been their own worst enemy forever, it's just easy to point a finger at streaming as the reason they are failing.
Charles I appreciate your passion and devotion to racing and the Burg, but you're arguing against yourself. If local racing is a money suck and the tracks need the big shows to survive(which are streamed), how is Flo killing them? That sounds like the tracks need to figure out how to make them profitable. FYI, I made my firt trip to the Burg this summer. Excellent race track. As for as streaming helping racing, I'm one that thinks it does. I have visited several tracks because of the racing that has been streamed. Hell, we're planning a trip to Oshweken this year because of the streaming they do. They stream for free on YouTube and my buddy has been watching them. Now we are heading up there. I'm sure people thought that TV would kill pro sports back in the day as well. Now it's ingrained in our culture. In my opinion if tracks want to make money they need to create an environment where people want to be. My family is a perfect example, they have no interest in sitting in a dust bowl and having to use porta pots. |
Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
Originally Posted by Grocery Guy: |
Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
I know certain tracks negotiate their pay. They are not going to give you an exact amount. From June to September, I am on the road every single week. The few weekends I am not putting on shows, I am chasing my kids to their games. Basically during this period, I will be lucky to make it to 3 races. I gladly pay for Flo to stay in the loop. I don't get to watch the races live, but atleast I get to see them. Due to my busy schedule, FLO is about all I stream. During the week I can watch LODLMS, Hilimit, and USAC. I try to watch all of the races within these 3. I will check out a few other events, but not on the regular. Being on the road, I can watch these events during downtime as well. My kids actually watch other sports on here. My son is mainly wrestling, and my daughter basketball, track, and soccer. Its great value for our family.
Now you want to complain about tracks closing, I'm going to be the first to tell you its time several of them change there policy's. #1 Rainouts- I travel so much, the odds of me catching a rain date are slim. Most tracks are no refund. You use your ticket at rain date or another event. This right here reduces my travel. If weather is iffy, I'm not traveling more than an hour. Even if I get to use my ticket at another event, it is not going to be a high profile event. It is going to be some standard show. So now I'm pay $30 or $40 for that $10 to $15 show. No they will not let me bring in 2 or 3 people on that 1 ticket either. So if the weather is not good, I'm out. Change your policy, I have sat through several rain showers to see racing that night. Show Flow- I do not care if you run 2 classes or 20 classes. Set your program up so that the main event feature is over by 10pm. I honestly don't care if you want to race until 2 or 3 am. Tracks need to make money, I get it. Its not hard to adjust your schedule. If I'm traveling over an hour for a show, I want the chance to get home decent. With show flow also comes consistency. Several people have to work on Sunday. I got no problem going to a race on Saturday if I can get home at a decent time. I want to see the main feature. Exposure- Did any of you watch the HiLimit races from Purth? The pits are wide open for paying fans. Look at Eldora big races, for an extra $10 you can upgrade to a pit pass. We need to find more ways to get the fans involved. If you are a promoter living on the concession stand, you really need to work on your on track program. You are shooting yourself in the foot. I promote shows all over. You have a 2 hour window on the bulk of PEOPLE. I did not say fans, I SAID PEOPLE! Your hard core fans are going to be there weekly no matter what. It's the occasional fan that really spikes your profit. Like I said you can race all night with the filler stuff. Get these fans in and out, and they will return much more often. |
Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
Most interesting part of this thread.
Most of the anti-streaming FLO is killing tracks people ... wait for it ... subscribe to FLO. :14: |
Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
Originally Posted by opnwhlmnd: Thank you Captain Obvious. :) And I have stayed home from traveling over a hour when I could watch it anyway when the weather was iffy a time or two. The facts are. There's more higher paying races (Mostly Flo nights, Lucas and HL). Usac has some more higher paying shows and some incentives like winning all three championships is big $$ in a season. The question was weather it's hurting, helping or neither to the tracks? I look at a track like Florence which was always LM feature by ten, well run show. used to have a killer fan base and Super LM's almost every weekend. Now runs Supers four weekends a year and sometimes the crowds not that big. My guess is people are getting pickier on what shows they'll go to and watch the rest streamed cause they can see em anyway. |
Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
When Speedshift streamed the USAC races at Bloomington they gave us a full report of online subscribers. I don't have the reports anymore but when I reviewed the town the IP pinged to it was very few within hours of Bloomington Speedway. We looked at it that people multiple states away wouldn't have traveled that far on a Friday, so any online more than offset the few close we seen. The split with Speedshift was 50% and no upfront cost to the track. If it was a bad weather night and cancelled, we didn't pay Chet or Darrin for their time.
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Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
Originally Posted by Hamilton71: Great info IMHO and FAIR! But I don't think Flo operates the same way Maybe it is a contract between the sanction and flo or the Track and Flo. IDK. The two numbers I gave (Don K saying they paid 1000 per) and (Kevin Miiler saying 50k viewers per usac race) Lets see, If you got half of Speedshift and 50 watched. $15X50,000 is 750K per event (That's half the speedshift full event price of $30 I don't think any track would be closing down with a couple of those Stream gate incomes. Hell if it was just one dollar per viewer it would be 25k to the track. If you just took the # of 50k subscribrs at 179.00 that's 8.9 million. and Miller said there was nearly 140k for the BC39 that's 25 million. All Im saying is there is enough money to put back into racing and still make a healthy profit. I'll go back to 2020 where flo held about six events at 50k to win. Probably 100k purses with NO FANS. Someone's getting the $$ and Im sure them tracks were either leased by flo or were paid handsomely to hold em. Don't get me wrong, I love the value of Flo. I probably watch the full shows of over a hundred events and the features of another fifty or more. Sometimes when I get home from a track I went to, I'll watch others features But I also didn't mind paying full price for a dozen events I couldn't make either Better than reruns. |
Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
I don't believe for a second that USAC had 50,000 people watch a single race this season. Most tracks in Indiana hold what 2,000 people? So Flo has 25 times the viewership compared to the live attendance. I'm sorry I just don't think USAC has that kind of pull. I think that's for the season. 90 races divided by 50,000 viewers give you 555 on Flo per race. That seems more realistic to me, and that is more consistent with what I've heard from other promoters.
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Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
Originally Posted by deadhorse30: I don't have any doubt flo probably has 500k or more subscribers to flo racing Alone, Aussies/Kiwi's all tune in. Guys in Military, Truckers etc. I've seen Facebook streams go over a hundred thou and people putting chili bowl on facebook just by pointing the phone at their TV go over a million. Flo runs commercials also on it's apps that have nothing to do with racing. like a broadcast channel. Im about done chatting about it because we as consumers may never know the real numbers and that's fine. But if the tracks were getting a fair shake from the EVENTS THEY HOLD. They wouldn't have such a huge turnover of people walking away from it. |
Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
No idea IOW had this many streaming broadcast media expert members......................sigh.............:5:
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Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
Charles, I didn't intend to upset you. I'm just looking at this realistically. I don't claim to know the numbers, but like you I've been attending races for a very long time. This is a very niche sport with a small customer base. Our largest venues hold maybe 20 thousand people, with sellouts being very rare. If that number is real and I was a promoter, I would demand a larger cut. Flo needs the tracks more than the tracks needing Flo. If the tracks are gone they have nothing to broadcast, which would be a horrible business plan.
Thanks for the discussion, maybe I'll head to the Burg this summer and we can finish it in person. |
Unbelievable 🤷.
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Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
Originally Posted by deadhorse30: |
Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
Learned a ton recently and only two numbers I don't know is how much it cost flo to stream it and how much flo is making from it. Don K wasn't lying and the fan loss (Paid gate admissions are up to three times what he said
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Re: Flo Increases Prices in 2025
Originally Posted by Charles Nungester: |
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