Gateway Dirt Nationals- huge miss for open wheel
 

So the question is, Did eliminating the open wheel portion of the show help it grow?

For those of you that do not know, they opened up 35,000 seats at the dome in St.L. Every single one of those seats were sold. The wait list for a suite is so long, that they no longer add names to the list. I know this event had a rough start. I know indoors racing is not cheap. I really think the decision that was made not to support the event is coming back to haunt the open wheel world. I have been there the last 2 years. The amount of growth I have seen, is just crazy. Open wheel needs to be involved in some manner. No where else is there 35,000 fans watching short track racing.

Re: Gateway Dirt Nationals- huge miss for open wheel
 

I've always thought they should have a midget race the week before or after they run supercross at Lucas Oil stadium. They could both use the same dirt. The problem would be I think is that one promoter owns the rights for all non football events in the dome.

Re: Gateway Dirt Nationals- huge miss for open wheel
 

To be honest, This year is the first year I think they got the track right.
Yeah, I think a midget event would be good for it. The last time the track wasn't right. They added like a foot in banking, and had the entry's wider to the turns. Raced well for the LM's with several laps run side by side.

Re: Gateway Dirt Nationals- huge miss for open wheel
 

Honestly last year was pretty good as well. They added an additional 10inches. I don't think they can do anymore without another set of k rails. 1 thing I will say, the fans were coming long before they made these changes. They were announcing on Thursday if you wanted tickets for Saturday you better order now.

Re: Gateway Dirt Nationals- huge miss for open wheel
 

Unfortunately, the dome is already booked. The only way they were able to secure the extra build time is due to the Thanksgiving week. This year had to be an eye opener to the dome on the real potential.

Re: Gateway Dirt Nationals- huge miss for open wheel
 

I don't think they want midgets anymore. They are selling all the tickets they want without them. A midget race will be 1000 times better than what they are doing, and they don't want the late models to be shown up. I've always said that's why they went away in the first place.

Re: Gateway Dirt Nationals- huge miss for open wheel
 

Joe from RMS. We enjoyed both of the shows we ran there. We chose to skip the last one just because of the logistics and cost of racing Nov-Jan. We would've had to go straight to St Louis from Ventura that year and after being on the road already for close to a month for the western swing and it was just too much honestly. We tore up some stuff out west and had the Chili Bowl to get ready for. Decided it would be better to just head home.

They have done an awesome job there for sure. What a success.

Re: Gateway Dirt Nationals- huge miss for open wheel
 

Midgets got the Chili Bowl and Lates/Mods got St. Louis, I think works out for everyone. I just don't think a midget show in early December would draw the cars or crowd level to support an event. They have a successful event for Lates/Mods let them have it.

Re: Gateway Dirt Nationals- huge miss for open wheel
 

Does anyone know if Chris Windom’s truck was ever recovered after being stolen from there? Don’t remember if it was the 1st or 2nd year this event was started.

Re: Gateway Dirt Nationals- huge miss for open wheel
 

As far as Midgets being there. This was never meant as midgets first show and I'm sure you know that. This event was built as a Late Model & Modified show. Cody gave Midgets a shot and they didn't really show up the 2nd year. So, he dropped them. As far as the Midgets showing up the late models now that's funny :5::5::10:. For as wide as late models and modifieds are and how narrow the track is at the Gateway Dirt Nationals the drivers that have shown up year after year, they have proven the can pull side jobs on a tight track and make the show pretty darn entertaining themselves. P.S. I doubt their worried about midgets showing up the late model and modified drivers any time soon. They draw a HUGE crowd there at the Dome in St. Louis and had to open up a whole other area in the upper deck for fans and ended up being a sellout of more than 35,000 fans.


2025 Gateway Dirt Nationals.
It has been announced by Cody Sommer at today's drivers meeting that the 2025 version of the Gateway Dirt Nationals will pay $50,000 to the winner for the Super Late Models, and $3,000 to start the event! Prelims will now pay $10,000 to win each night, and $1,000 to start! The total event purse grows to $340,800 from $229,440, a 52 percent increase.

Modifieds will remain on the schedule as invitation-only and continue to pay $10,000-to-win for its finale but will see an overall purse increase of $18,800 with additional tow money.

2025 Gateway Dirt Nationals complete announcment news and information > https://www.floracing.com/articles/1...WH7GG7ijbyhq7Q

Re: Gateway Dirt Nationals- huge miss for open wheel
 

Comments like this are why non wing open wheel does not have the big money events. Hate me for saying it all you want, but your not putting 35,000 fans in Tulsa.

To Joe's comment about timing. I don't think its as much about the teams as the drivers. Many of the dirt late model drivers do not run with their own teams at the dome. B-Shep drove his own car this year and won. If the top drivers car owners are not going, they find rides. If the top open wheel drivers are not able to do the same thing, that tells you exactly what shape the sport is in. There are a ton of midgets that go to the chili bowl that do not even have a chance to make the a main. Several of those cars could run top 5 at StL.

I have never herd and drivers comment about t-shirt sells at chili bowl. Tyler Carpenter said that he sold over $60,000 in merch last year. I'm hearing the top drivers are breaking the 6 figure mark. That may sound crazy, but all of those guys had 6 to 8 people working the booth.

In interviews both Ricky Thorton and Nick Hoffman both advocated to bring midgets back. The commentator's made multiple comments each day. I won't post anymore, but is sure seems like the open wheel world is missing out on something big.

To provide some context, I was talking to a big LM fan the other day about the Dome, and he brought up midgets being there and said a lot of fans don’t want them there. He said they got their Chili Bowl, and we got this. I said it’s almost tribal? He said yes. And I’m ok with that. I would go to the dome if we were getting the top 60 or 80 best midgets in the country, but I still haven’t been to the Dome for LM’s and mod’s.
On the other hand, we don’t know how many people would go to the Chili Bowl. If it had twice the capacity, I think it could be done. It’s sold out every year, so what more can you ask? International streaming, right? There’s a waiting list for tickets?
Comparing the 2 is apple’s and oranges. Late Model fans out number midget fans enormously. Heck I even have friends that are Sprint Car fans that are indifferent to midgets. I seriously doubt you could fill the Dome with midget fans

I'd go so far as to say RTJ, Bobby Pierce, and Brandon Sheppard by themselves put more fans in the stands than an entire Midget field would.

I would argue that, but I get your point

Just invite the LM and Mods and Non Wing sprints to Chili Bowl lmao. Then all you open wheel people should be happy .

Re: Gateway Dirt Nationals- huge miss for open wheel
 

They were there, they didn’t enhance the late model program, which is the focus, and now they are gone. They are not coming back to Gateway. Du Quoin has a powri show running Dec. 14 and in a 3000 seat capacity bleachers about 1500 - maybe 1800 crowd will show. The demand outside of Tulsa isn’t really busting at the seams.

Re: Gateway Dirt Nationals- huge miss for open wheel
 

Re: Gateway Dirt Nationals- huge miss for open wheel
 

I would like them to reserve the dome another week and have a High Limit/WoO show. Have micros as a support class to aid with the promotors expenses. Micros bring like the whole family to the pits with them and race for next to nothing most of the time.

Fans would pack the place like the cab car fans do now.

Why would the inclusion of midgets as a support class to a novelty LM event grow the sport? The Chili Bowl gets as much if not more attention than the Dome event and still midgets as an overall class are not doing well.

Re: Gateway Dirt Nationals- huge miss for open wheel
 

That last statement couldn't be truer. Probably 500 midgets out there and I doubt a hundred of them run more than just the Chili Bowl. Sprints as well. Probably two thirds of them can't run a normal tracks weekly schedule.

Until this sport comes back to some sort of production based power train. It's not going to sustain itself.

Re: Gateway Dirt Nationals- huge miss for open wheel
 

But then the final feature would be run at 9:00 in the morning the next day. :29:

Re: Gateway Dirt Nationals- huge miss for open wheel
 

Du Quoin, 54 cars, plenty of open seats. So whats the arguement:deadhorse:

Re: Gateway Dirt Nationals- huge miss for open wheel
 

I'll never understand why there are open seats at that place. It's incredible racing and if I wasn't five hours away, I'd be there every year.. Yes, DuQuion has a shortage of Rooms. But Carbondale doesn't.

You wouldn't think three wide racing was possible in a Rodeo Rink. But they do it and do it well. Get a pit pass, walk around early and get to know em. It's a awesome track and race and if it's warm enough. fumes are rarely a issue.

Re: Gateway Dirt Nationals- huge miss for open wheel
 

Part of it maybe cuz close to Xmas.

How much promotion do they do though? I'd say it barely got on this site; and I see POWRi's page had updates on it about every 2-3 days for the last month; but did anyone else notice a mass push elsewhere?

Re: Gateway Dirt Nationals- huge miss for open wheel
 

I'd think being PRI & USAC banquet wkdn might keep a few people away too. I know the banquet was on Friday night and many have already been to PRI by Sat; but maybe a few stick around Indy.

The fumes keep me away. I've been there for midgets a couple times. The older I get, the less I can take the fumes.

Re: Gateway Dirt Nationals- huge miss for open wheel
 

Was the DuQuion race on any streaming service?

Re: Gateway Dirt Nationals- huge miss for open wheel
 

You said it all, rodeo rink vs. a stadium. Yes it does produce good racing but you do not have the fan experience.

Jason it was on Start to Finish TV. I think they have subscriptions for 30 bucks a month or 200 a year.

Re: Gateway Dirt Nationals- huge miss for open wheel
 

On that note, but totally different to the topic at hand, looks like Flo is going up to $179.88 in 2025.

Now..... back on topic - Huge miss for open wheel.

Re: Gateway Dirt Nationals- huge miss for open wheel
 

Hopefully the promotors are getting a fair cut from these streaming services...